Staff Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Click here for the article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Article is currently off line. Sounds interesting ,can't wait to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Sorry about that - it is now available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharon Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Click here for the article I would watch more if mustang were in Nascar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangesnake Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I would watch more if mustang were in Nascar The bad thing about the whole Mustang / Camaro / Challenger / Toyota whatever NASCAR deal would be this. They would want to make the car more airdynamic and it would eventually loose its identity just like Chevy / Pontiac / Ford / Chrysler NASCAR Programs of today. Make the Busch series cars have a mandated front height and width so that they stay bulky just like the old cars or the modern Mustang/ Camaro concept/ Challenger concept / Cuda concept / Pontiac Concept / Cougar concept. (one heck of a race) Keep the non aerodynamic restrictions in place so cars stay bulky. Bulky just like the trucks. Now that would be racing just like the old days. Trouble with NASCAR today is the cars are not looking like cars. Might as well be an open wheel racer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I agree with Orangesnake. anything that nascer does today is done with a purpose built tube frame chassis with a sheetmetal covering that only resembles its namesake. The current Grand Am cup cars are more true to the real car and closest to the original Trans Am series. Thats the kind of racing most of us can relate to although I do like the fact that Nascar races on many different tracks such as 1/2 mile ovals,1 mile ovals,1-1/2 -2 mile tracks as well as road courses. I would like to see the Grand Am cup series cars do that.Especially with big name owners like Roush,Hendrick,Gibbs ect. It would be cool to see the Mustang in maybe the IROC series though as long as they use the orginal body and the 5.4 nat asp engine/alum block. Wishful thinking I'm sure..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 If NASCAR does it they're bound to screw it up. Their mindset is completely divorced from the CARS and the 'brand' and is solely about the drivers and teams and money. The TransAm series was about the CARS as well as the drivers/teams and SCCA knew that the CARS were what people were rooting for as much as the drivers. As much as I'm a fan of Jack Rousch, his head is stuck in his... well... business as usual, I think, because as a car builder, rules changes = big expense. That alone should be a clue to why we need something like the old TransAm rules NOT RUN BY NASCAR. I think the drivers could care less who the sanctionig body is and I can understand why they like the excitement of green-light pit stops. That's the way racing is supposed to be and what this whole resurgeance in these cars needs to be all about once again. In fact, let's start by trying to make the old SCCA rules work to change the cars as little as possible. On real road courses; going clockwise; with under-green pit stops; with people walking the perimeter to view the race from different perspectives along the course. I used to be a NASCAR roundy-round fan, but I still object to restrictor plates. Change the displacement if you want, but restrictor plates are just wrong. An analogy might be forcing competitors in the tour de france to be fitted with mouthpieces to restrict how much oxygen they can get! When NASCAR took the uniqieness of the 'brand' out of the picture, I started tuning out. If they were genuinely concerned about driver injuries on high-banked tracks, they'd change the rules to make the cars safer. The real reason for restrictor plates was that SPECTATOR INJURIES are more likely at high speed tracks and they were threatened with lack of insurance if they didn't slow things down. And it's much cheaper to choke the cars into submission than it is to retrofit racing facilities to be safer. That's also why 'brand' has been deemphasized -- the cars are essentially all the same -- there are, in effect, no brand differences any longer. If they run mustangs and camaros and challengers under NASCAR as it is today, you might as well just change the mandated body templates a little and reskin the existing cars, because that's exactly what Jack Rousch (and I'm sure the other builders) will do. Does anybody really want to see that happen? Or do you want something like the old TransAm (or the GrandAm which I agree is a good alternative), where the cars look like what they are because they actually ARE what they look like they are. That's what I want. If that happens, I'll be back at Watkins Glenn, Mid-Ohio, Lime Rock, etc. following the races, moving around the track with stopwatch in hand, planning trips with my friends and family, bar-b-queing on the grounds in the evening, socializing with other car people -- that's what the Trans Am was about as much as the race itself. How ya gonna do that in a NASCAR format with NASCAR in charge? NASCAR is what it is and I still watch it and enjoy it, but I have no desire to throw more cars (uhh, just different paint) into its great abyss when we can have actual mustangs and camaros etc competing in a more appropriate and meaningfull format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Gotta chime in here. I'm an old SCCA, TransAm, Camel GT fan. (mostly at Lime Rock) We'd bring the kids in the pickup - stake out a spot along the fence. Fire up the coals, have some burgers and make new friends while we watched 'em come screaming by. Later, we'd walk the perimeter getting different pics from different corners. We could buy a paddock pass and get up close with the cars and crews. Now - it's 170,00 at Charlotte - 5 bucks for a bottle of water - and isolation from the real reason to watch racing. NASCAR makes money - but road racing touches your soul. Dan - where ya been recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 I too have become more disenfranchised from Nascar. With my guy (Martin) in his last year and :censored:Tojota coming in, this just may be my last year with Nascar racing. They (Nascar) have just about ruined it for me. In fact, I would almost like to see Ford and Chevrolet leave, and start their own deal, American stock cars, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 Gotta chime in here. I'm an old SCCA, TransAm, Camel GT fan. (mostly at Lime Rock) We'd bring the kids in the pickup - stake out a spot along the fence. Fire up the coals, have some burgers and make new friends while we watched 'em come screaming by. Later, we'd walk the perimeter getting different pics from different corners. We could buy a paddock pass and get up close with the cars and crews. Now - it's 170,00 at Charlotte - 5 bucks for a bottle of water - and isolation from the real reason to watch racing. NASCAR makes money - but road racing touches your soul. Dan - where ya been recently? +1 and AMEN, bro! NASCAR will never build brand loayalty like SCCA because of exactly what you say. That's why places like Watkins Glen and others are so special. You walked around, socialized, expereienced your idols racing and winning from each turn on the track as you walked the perimeter with a stopwatch in hand.. Watching how Parnelli and George could go deeper than anyone into the big 110-degree turn and how their superior oil pan windage-tray let them run the esses faster than anyone else. Today, it's as you say: 120,000 'sheep' (no insult intended -- you have no choice) in expensive seats being taken with ADMs on water <lol> It's become obscene. I want big-time Ford participation in SCCA. Nascar ponycar racing's going to happen no matter, but it will just be diferent paint going by. RUF, you rock! . I too have become more disenfranchised from Nascar. With my guy (Martin) in his last year and :censored:Tojota coming in, this just may be my last year with Nascar racing. They (Nascar) have just about ruined it for me. In fact, I would almost like to see Ford and Chevrolet leave, and start their own deal, American stock cars, period. Not a bad idea!!! NASCAR seems to forget: NASCAR didn't make stock car racing -- Stock Car Racing made NASCAR.. they seem to have forgotten that. So I say take the mustang and camaro and callenger and go back to the road-course tracks that racing history was made at. I don't think that's going to happen to the exclusion of NASCAR, but we can dream! Ever since NASCAR screwed Ford with rules changes and became a viewer-hostile track environment, I've refused to go to any NASCAR races. I'd go to a revived SCCA Trans-Am at tracks like Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Road America, etc. in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnut Posted September 15, 2006 Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 +1 and AMEN, bro! NASCAR will never build brand loayalty like SCCA because of exactly what you say. That's why places like Watkins Glen and others are so special. You walked around, socialized, expereienced your idols racing and winning from each turn on the track as you walked the perimeter with a stopwatch in hand.. Watching how Parnelli and George could go deeper than anyone into the big 110-degree turn and how their superior oil pan windage-tray let them run the esses faster than anyone else. Today, it's as you say: 120,000 'sheep' (no insult intended -- you have no choice) in expensive seats being taken with ADMs on water <lol> It's become obscene. I want big-time Ford participation in SCCA. Nascar ponycar racing's going to happen no matter, but it will just be diferent paint going by. RUF, you rock! . Not a bad idea!!! NASCAR seems to forget: NASCAR didn't make stock car racing -- Stock Car Racing made NASCAR.. they seem to have forgotten that. So I say take the mustang and camaro and callenger and go back to the road-course tracks that racing history was made at. I don't think that's going to happen to the exclusion of NASCAR, but we can dream! Ever since NASCAR screwed Ford with rules changes and became a viewer-hostile track environment, I've refused to go to any NASCAR races. I'd go to a revived SCCA Trans-Am at tracks like Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, Road America, etc. in a heartbeat. OK, think about this, ARCA racing series with a new set of rules. American Stock Cars. and American dont mean Toyo cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted September 16, 2006 Report Share Posted September 16, 2006 OK, think about this, ARCA racing series with a new set of rules. American Stock Cars. and American dont mean Toyo cars I'm not that familiar with ARCA, but they do banked tracks and go round the 'wrong' way <lol> I'm biased toward road courses (clockwise racing ) that test a cars true handling and balance -- but that;s just me. One think ARCA seems to have going for it is the cars are actually fairly 'stock' -- that's cool. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 Dan - this one's for you. In about 1979-81, Klaus Ludwig set a track qualifying record at Lime Rock for the Camel GT in a 4-cyl Mustang turbo (the Miller Mustang)! I forget his numbers, but we all gathered around in the RJR hospitality tent (we were very thirsty, and luckily the Miller boys had some iced down brewskis for us). Here was the 4 banger Mustang out-qualifying the Porsche 962's et al. We were Pumped! We were on the hill able to view Big Bend and the Uphill. So - green flag. They go around and come back into view. No Mustang. It broke on lap 1. Since we were real race fans, we stayed and drank all the Miller beer on hand in memory. Edit - another for Dan: I foget the year, but we were back in Lakeville (Lime Rock) for an SCCA event. Paul Newman (who would never sign an autograph or pose for a pic) decided to try and race Bob Sharp's (Scott's dad) twin turbo 280Z (V-8). Remember, Paul had been very successful racing Z's for Sharp Racing (including a Championship or two). Well, Paul strapped into the V8 and off he went - straight into the trees after negotiating Big Bend. After the race, my buds and I walked down to talk to the Sharp crew who was dragging the $$$ Z out of the woods! One said to me, "Paul found his limits today." Good times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted September 17, 2006 Report Share Posted September 17, 2006 . Such great memories, Bryan...thanks.... I wasn't there for either of those but, knowing Lime Rock, tose vignettes were fun to visualize... yeah, I remember yelling to Newman in the pits on a couple of occasions at Lime Rock and he wouldn't even turn his head to see who was calling his name -- God forbid if he actually looked, someone might take a pic! <lol> Fun days.... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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