2009 GT500 Production

[mach1fever]

Amy did say the contract was a "long term contract" that would contine into the next body style. Take it how you want but all signs point to yes.

 

Roger

[SLB8SNK]

Amy did say the contract was a "long term contract" that would continue into the next body style. Take it how you want but all signs point to yes.

 

Roger

Again, no disrespect, but taken out of context. Statement was that Shelby had a long term contract well into the new model year, but no comment was made that it meant they were building GT500's into the next model year. Not saying it can't happen, but Shelby can have a contract until 2050, but that does not mean Ford has to build GT500's.

[Joe G]

Again, no disrespect, but taken out of context. Statement was that Shelby had a long term contract well into the new model year, but no comment was made that it meant they were building GT500's into the next model year. Not saying it can't happen, but Shelby can have a contract until 2050, but that does not mean Ford has to build GT500's.

You're one of those troublemakers on this site, aren't you Dan??

 

 

 

 

Wanna change your name to "Dan G"??

 

[SLB8SNK]

You're one of those troublemakers on this site, aren't you Dan??

 

 

 

 

Wanna change your name to "Dan G"??

 

Already established, brothers from different mothers!

[DubbsFaris]

My opinion is that there are other options ready for production, including the GT350 and the terlingua...IMHO it doesn't really matter what they decide to build... but a contract just means that he is locked into working with Ford during that time, but is it exclusive? If so, it is possible they are just trying to lock him out of other manufac. vehicles...heheheh maybe....

 

damn it...I wasn't gonna let myself get sucked into this...but it was just too tempting!!! My tarot cards say expect impending speed!!! :happy feet:

[ShelbyDude]

Ford develops a FI 5.4L, 500HP, mod friendly, knock out motor and blends this with the iconic Shelby moniker in their current retro Mustang and the end product is a smashing success. They haven't had a product like this in decades and some of you guys actually think that there is a chance that Ford will just stop building a product that is this desireable. Are you crazy? Will Ford continue to build a Shelby GT500/550/600? The answer is in-your-face-obvious. The only variable here is when the upgrades hit the scene.

 

 

This car is a smashing success. but for how long??? Based on current sales and what they are selling for now that smashing success is coming to an end.

 

When you start seeing these at MSRP being posted and no one has jumped on it that tells you the smashing success is coming to an end.

 

So they better come up with a lot more power to keep the product going strong. Perhaps a 600 HP version now that they have the upgraded blower they can add in place of the current blower. That can keep things going for at least another year. Other than that I would say just about everyone that wants and can afford one has already got one.

[bull]

i want one..but i am not paying any adm fees to a crooked dealer...

[mach1fever]

Does it really need more power besides a 15/20 horse bump. The competition is just as heavy and has less hp. It will have a redesigned facia/interior. Doesn't need to have a bump to 600hp right now. Dan, she said that responding to a question about continuing the gt500 line. Btw you know I am one of those friends of a friend people how has got yes from different people. It's just a matter of a model year before its announced, just rest assured there will be one

[SLB8SNK]

My opinion is that there are other options ready for production, including the GT350 and the terlingua...IMHO it doesn't really matter what they decide to build... but a contract just means that he is locked into working with Ford during that time, but is it exclusive? If so, it is possible they are just trying to lock him out of other manufac. vehicles...heheheh maybe....

 

damn it...I wasn't gonna let myself get sucked into this...but it was just too tempting!!! My tarot cards say expect impending speed!!! :happy feet:

+1... I think Ford has a few more trick up it's sleeves!

[SLB8SNK]

This car is a smashing success. but for how long??? Based on current sales and what they are selling for now that smashing success is coming to an end.

 

When you start seeing these at MSRP being posted and no one has jumped on it that tells you the smashing success is coming to an end.

 

So they better come up with a lot more power to keep the product going strong. Perhaps a 600 HP version now that they have the upgraded blower they can add in place of the current blower. That can keep things going for at least another year. Other than that I would say just about everyone that wants and can afford one has already got one.

As always, great post! Yes, they can, and might, but why? They would have better luck coming out with something fresh. Let the GT500 live in it's glory as an amazing two year run, move on! We shall see!

[SLB8SNK]

Does it really need more power besides a 15/20 horse bump. The competition is just as heavy and has less hp. It will have a redesigned facia/interior. Doesn't need to have a bump to 600hp right now. Dan, she said that responding to a question about continuing the gt500 line. Btw you know I am one of those friends of a friend people how has got yes from different people. It's just a matter of a model year before its announced, just rest assured there will be one

I hear ya, I'm no fool, and conceded long ago that the opportunity and possibility surely exist. However, IF they do, or IF they choose to, is another matter. They can pull the plug at any time, or resurrect at any time. They can swap with something new! I am not naive in that it more than likely WILL happen, just holding out that Ford may come around and weigh the hole thing out and seek an alternate route!

[SLB8SNK]

A small HP increase of that magnitude may come with the '09 GT500 to rekindle some interest and maintain sales. GM won't need a king kong motor in its first year. After that, look out. There is no way GM is taking second place in the advertised HP arena here. The GT500 will need to go steroids at that point.

I think you may be right, but gotta tell ya, the wars may be kindled sooner than most think with all the declining sales, lay offs. union BS, and now the higher gas mileage numbers. Who knows, and add gas costs.... not sure this HP war will last as long as it did in the 60's and early 70's. Just my .02

[Five Oh B]

i want one..but i am not paying any adm fees to a crooked dealer...

 

Would you pay an ADM to a nice, honest dealer, then???

[SLB8SNK]

Would you pay an ADM to a nice, honest dealer, then???

+1, funny as there are several MSRP deals out there now, so I wrote this off to someone not really interested..

[Five Oh B]

I think we're at a point in history where we do not need any more bumps in horsepower from the factory. I'm all for more horsepower, but there is a point of diminishing marginal returns on horsepower in a street car. On the street, I can hang side by side with a 500hp GT500 with my ho-hum 330hp 07 GT automatic. Up to about 60-70 mph, a GT500 can not beat me. At higher speeds or at the track is very different story. Long road course? GT500 would eat my car alive. 1/4 mile? GT500 would beat me by a small margin. But, for every day grins and giggles, 300-350 hp in a 3400 lb package is plenty entertaining. 500hp is just bragging rights, with no additional usuable power stoplight to stoplight. How fast does a factory car need to be to be considered fast enough? 25 years ago I was praying that someday we'd see 13 second 1/4 miles out of an affordable, mass produced car (14-15 seconds was pretty common in Mustangs, F-bodies, Corvettes, etc.). Now we have all V8 Mustangs running 13's or better, GT500's running 12's or better, and SS packages offering 11's (maybe even 10's?). Any quicker, and we're going to need to issue competition licenses in addition to drivers license to be able to operate this kind of horsepower on the street.

 

GT500's are inching closer and closer to MSRP with every passing week. And there are other toys on the horizon (from Ford/Shelby and the competition) competing for your $50K. Problem is, our economy is unstable. Record numbers of people are losing their homes to foreclosures. The US dollar is going flacid. The middle class is becoming poorer and poorer all the time. Who is going to buy these mega hp cars when the market is saturated with them? Adding more and more horsepower every year only serves to drive up the price ever closer to the stratosphere and out of the reach of more and more people.

 

We need a musclecar for the masses, but something a step up from a Mustang GT while containing the dang price. The 2008.5 Bullitt is such a cool package, but how about applying its engine/suspension goodies to the California Special so you can choose from Steve McQueen incognito or spoilers & stripes with performance to match? This could easily be done, and MSRP could be contained to about $32K-$33K so that the middle class masses can actually afford one. Upcoming Mach 1 or Boss models? Better dang well be under $40K - $35K would be better.

 

Also, while I'm on a rant about keeping prices realisitic, I'm getting really, really tired of reading each month's issue of Car and Driver, Road & Track, Automobile, etc. and seeing most of the articles about $100K to $300K cars that 90% of the subscriber base of those magazines can NOT afford. Even, MM&FF magazine (my favorite Mustang magazine) has all but abandoned the basic bolt on critiques and are using up their entire magazine on articles about exotic turbo and supercharger build ups for 800, 900, 1000+ hp cars that cost way more money than the average Joe reading that magazine can ever hope to afford. Somebody please point me in the direction of an enthusiast publication that covers real cars that real people can afford (and Consumer Reports does NOT count as they are not enthusiasts).

 

Lastly, and perhaps most closely on topic, is that I am still the SVT Director for a large volume Ford dealership, and we still do NOT have any confirmation as to whether there will be a 2009 GT500. We'd like to see '09's, but until Ford communicates them, I believe there's a good chance that GT500 production ends with the 2008's.

[SLB8SNK]

I think we're at a point in history where we do not need any more bumps in horsepower from the factory. I'm all for more horsepower, but there is a point of diminishing marginal returns on horsepower in a street car. On the street, I can hang side by side with a 500hp GT500 with my ho-hum 330hp 07 GT automatic. Up to about 60-70 mph, a GT500 can not beat me. At higher speeds or at the track is very different story. Long road course? GT500 would eat my car alive. 1/4 mile? GT500 would beat me by a small margin. But, for every day grins and giggles, 300-350 hp in a 3400 lb package is plenty entertaining. 500hp is just bragging rights, with no additional usuable power stoplight to stoplight. How fast does a factory car need to be to be considered fast enough? 25 years ago I was praying that someday we'd see 13 second 1/4 miles out of an affordable, mass produced car (14-15 seconds was pretty common in Mustangs, F-bodies, Corvettes, etc.). Now we have all V8 Mustangs running 13's or better, GT500's running 12's or better, and SS packages offering 11's (maybe even 10's?). Any quicker, and we're going to need to issue competition licenses in addition to drivers license to be able to operate this kind of horsepower on the street.

 

GT500's are inching closer and closer to MSRP with every passing week. And there are other toys on the horizon (from Ford/Shelby and the competition) competing for your $50K. Problem is, our economy is unstable. Record numbers of people are losing their homes to foreclosures. The US dollar is going flacid. The middle class is becoming poorer and poorer all the time. Who is going to buy these mega hp cars when the market is saturated with them? Adding more and more horsepower every year only serves to drive up the price ever closer to the stratosphere and out of the reach of more and more people.

 

We need a musclecar for the masses, but something a step up from a Mustang GT while containing the dang price. The 2008.5 Bullitt is such a cool package, but how about applying its engine/suspension goodies to the California Special so you can choose from Steve McQueen incognito or spoilers & stripes with performance to match? This could easily be done, and MSRP could be contained to about $32K-$33K so that the middle class masses can actually afford one. Upcoming Mach 1 or Boss models? Better dang well be under $40K - $35K would be better.

 

Also, while I'm on a rant about keeping prices realisitic, I'm getting really, really tired of reading each month's issue of Car and Driver, Road & Track, Automobile, etc. and seeing most of the articles about $100K to $300K cars that 90% of the subscriber base of those magazines can NOT afford. Even, MM&FF magazine (my favorite Mustang magazine) has all but abandoned the basic bolt on critiques and are using up their entire magazine on articles about exotic turbo and supercharger build ups for 800, 900, 1000+ hp cars that cost way more money than the average Joe reading that magazine can ever hope to afford. Somebody please point me in the direction of an enthusiast publication that covers real cars that real people can afford (and Consumer Reports does NOT count as they are not enthusiasts).

 

Lastly, and perhaps most closely on topic, is that I am still the SVT Director for a large volume Ford dealership, and we still do NOT have any confirmation as to whether there will be a 2009 GT500. We'd like to see '09's, but until Ford communicates them, I believe there's a good chance that GT500 production ends with the 2008's.

WONDERFUL, insightful, entertaining, well thought out, and must say near perfect post! Kudos to you. This speaks to the points of several posts and should be cut and pasted in most. Great job. I could not agree more with this compete thought process!

 

Maybe send this to Ford via your internal web! :happy feet: FANTASTIC.... Thanks!

[owenkelley]

i want one..but i am not paying any adm fees to a crooked dealer...

 

 

I paid an ADM fee to a straight shooting dealer. There are a bunch out there.

[mach1fever]

Well I think a limited volume of people will be available to purchase this kind of car for years to come. With this car being such a small percentage of vehicles produced (they take all of fords line up not just the mustang) in account the cafe standards don't matter much. They make it up with all of the focus sales. I agree with you as far as the max hp number. I think a ford mass produced mustang, gt500 or otherwise will not top 600 hp. As far as the price is concerned, lets face it. The average lower or middle class family is not buying this car. They can not afford it even at msrp. The days of the affordable average joe cobra are over.

[DubbsFaris]

i want one..but i am not paying any adm fees to a crooked dealer...

:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :tequila:

[SLB8SNK]

Excellent post Five-Oh! Really a good read. It is always great to see a cerebral guy on an enthusiast site.

 

I'm right with you on C/D and R/T. Dumped my subscriptions to both ten years ago. They are so biased towards imports that it is almost laughable. A stock Mustang GT @ less than 30 grand rips a 13.5 quarter mile and they describe it as enjoyable but crude. An 80 thousand dollar entry level 911 posts similar numbers and it is a blazing example of unrivaled German engineering. Put a Porsche emblem on a 75 Vega and they would rave about it.

 

You've nailed it with your comments about pricing levels for the upcoming mid level Stangs. They really do need to hold the line here and not loose site of the core audience that has supported the breed over the decades. Anything beyond mid 30's is dangerous territory where rebates and invoice pricing will be summoned to save the day. A Mach1 and or Boss edition is a great idea and will likely have a fine following but lets face it they will not be collectable, rare, hard to get, etc. They do need to be affordable to larger segment of the Mustang world.

 

The developing Pony Car wars are to me a dream come true. Advertiseable horsepower will be the yardstick by which these beasts are judged as it was 40 years ago. There is a glass ceiling up there somewhere. Will it be 600, 650, 700. Who knows. Keep in mind that GM is currently testing a forced induction version of its potent 6.2L LS3 that could very well clean the slate and rewrite the book on factory available street performance. You can be certain that Ford is well aware of this fact and has its own monster(s) in the making. Yes it will be interesting and the best of all craziness is yet to come.

 

I was just shy of driving age when the glory days of the American muscle car were abruptly terminated by pollution controls, insurance advocates, and safety freaks(not the gas price crunch which cam a couple years later). I really never thought that we would see another era like that again but indeed we will and it is just about to shift into high gear. The American car industry is responding to the performance oriented consumer and is about to give us another trip through the golden age of performance. This is going to be a great ride.

Nice post as well Doc, enjoyed them both. Good stuff.

[sharabi]

A small HP increase of that magnitude may come with the '09 GT500 to rekindle some interest and maintain sales. GM won't need a king kong motor in its first year. After that, look out. There is no way GM is taking second place in the advertised HP arena here. The GT500 will need to go steroids at that point.

 

 

Or it needs to go diet and lose weight..Is it the engine that counts for most of the weight gain.. i do know that it has parts from gt40 that is aluminum and supposed to be light..so where is the fat that needs liposuction?

[DDT]

Or it needs to go diet and lose weight..Is it the engine that counts for most of the weight gain.. i do know that it has parts from gt40 that is aluminum and supposed to be light..so where is the fat that needs liposuction?

 

 

Cast iron block, 2 more camshafts, 8 more valves including valve train,

Super Charger brakes ,suspension and a larger transmission-clutch.

Im sure I am missing something?????????????

[SLB8SNK]

Unfortunately cars are getting heavier across the board. The forced induction does add weight to the front of the car. Supercharger unit, heat exchanger, plumbing, intercooler, additional fluid, all adds up. A stage 2(pulley, tune, intake) can make up for this and a lot more. Stock wheels, seats, suspension components can be swapped with lighter aftermarket pieces but that gets real expensive in a hurry.

All this and for what? To shave a few seconds off at track time? I like it as is, no diet needed.... it is just fine for a street car it was desinged to be! In my HO.

[DDT]

All this and for what? To shave a few seconds off at track time? I like it as is, no diet needed.... it is just fine for a street car it was desinged to be! In my HO.

 

This car was meant to be a "BEAST".

It is what it is...........

[sharabi]

All this and for what? To shave a few seconds off at track time? I like it as is, no diet needed.... it is just fine for a street car it was desinged to be!

 

 

I do not think that this was on Mr.Shelby's mind in the sixties when he beat the corvette many years in the row with the gt500, he said that himself and am referring to his video interviews...i do not think that is on his mind now with his eyes fixed on keeping the gt500 at the top against the competition ..that what he said in his recent interviews.

Shaving a few seconds off at the track makes you win a race..it could be done with diet or with power increase. both are doable.

and yes the car is a nice street legal monster.

[SLB8SNK]

I do not think that this was on Mr.Shelby's mind in the sixties when he beat the corvette many years in the row with the gt500, he said that himself and am referring to his video interviews...i do not think that is on his mind now with his eyes fixed on keeping the gt500 at the top against the competition ..that what he said in his recent interviews.

Shaving a few seconds off at the track makes you win a race..it could be done with diet or with power increase. both are doable.

and yes the car is a nice street legal monster.

My comment was it makes no difference on the street! The track, that is a horse of a different color, but trust me, you can shave 200lbs off the car and you will not be better served on the street. That is unless you want to get to the next light 3 seconds faster? Come on, this is really simple. Guys who claim the need to lighten this car up, are only concerned with track runs. Go back and read the two lengthy posts above, which speak to this in a different manner. The car is perfect. Tweak what you want for your own needs, but for what it was designed to be, it is perfect. If you have the need to do something OTHER than drive it on the street, then so be it! End of story. Heck the average guy will never come close to using the 500HP as is for a street car, let alone worry about the weight!

[sharabi]

My comment was it makes no difference on the street! The track, that is a horse of a different color, but trust me, you can shave 200lbs off the car and you will not be better served on the street. That is unless you want to get to the next light 3 seconds faster? Come on, this is really simple. Guys who claim the need to lighten this car up, are only concerned with track runs. Go back and read the two lengthy posts above, which speak to this in a different manner. The car is perfect. Tweak what you want for your own needs, but for what it was designed to be, it is perfect. If you have the need to do something OTHER than drive it on the street, then so be it! End of story. Heck the average guy will never come close to using the 500HP as is for a street car, let alone worry about the weight!

 

I read those posts and what i said falls in the same line....you can have less powerful engine and less weight car and extract same performance..and beat competition...less pollution..no gas guzzler tax... what have you. i still think the car is over weight.

i can tell my hypertensive patient (that is overweight)..increase that dose of antihypertensive medicine or lose weight with possible lowering the dose or even in some cases stopping the medicine . which is better?

[Five Oh B]

As far as the price is concerned, lets face it. The average lower or middle class family is not buying this car. They can not afford it even at msrp. The days of the affordable average joe cobra are over.

 

My wife and I pull in $100K per year combined putting us smack dab in the middle class and there is no way we can afford a GT500, even using D-plan pricing (as an employee). It's truly sad that SVT does not build a car for us average Joe's anymore!

[sharabi]

Removing 200 lbs is no easy task either and not worth it in my book

 

I agree with this part.. I did not mean that i should take the car for liposuction, that is not cost effective.what i meant is that ford /shelby should of taken

My wife and I pull in $100K per year combined putting us smack dab in the middle class and there is no way we can afford a GT500, even using D-plan pricing (as an employee). It's truly said that SVT does not build a car for us average Joe's anymore!

into consideration from the beginning and come up with a lighter powerful car.

May be in the next 10YM it will be done and ....Five Oh B.... i wish you from my heart to have one in your garage.

[Five Oh B]

I was just shy of driving age when the glory days of the American muscle car were abruptly terminated by pollution controls, insurance advocates, and safety freaks(not the gas price crunch which cam a couple years later). I really never thought that we would see another era like that again but indeed we will and it is just about to shift into high gear. The American car industry is responding to the performance oriented consumer and is about to give us another trip through the golden age of performance. This is going to be a great ride.

 

I got my license just after the second big oil embargo, hence the reason my first car (a little '75 Mustang Mach 1) was a frugal V6 model. Nobody wanted those big gas guzzlin' V8's and Detroit sure wasn't making musclecars anymore (new Corvettes of the era were pathetic 15 second 1/4 milers on a good day).

 

The original musclecar era (1964-1972, IMO), is much celebrated, but we've already had better/faster cars coming at us for almost 10 years now. We all have fond memories of how fast the original musclecars were, but our memories are a bit fuzzy. For example, I owned a 1968 Pontiac GTO from 1986-1995 (bought it from the original owner). GTO was the epitome of "musclecar." Big block power, sales success, high volume production, etc. My GTO was the most common of the breed; 400 cubic inch, 350hp, Turbo 400 automatic transmission, 3.23 gears. This was the vast majority of GTO's in 1968. So, how fast was this fabled beast when new? It was Motor Trend's 1968 Car of the Year and it ran the 1/4 mile in the 14.50's at about 93 mph. My '89 Mustang 5.0L LX was just as fast! My '00 Mustang GT was faster (13.80's at 97). My '03 Mach 1 was way faster (13.00's at 105). New 300hp Mustang GT's are faster. There are plenty of import cars with much smaller engines (4 and 6 cylinders - yikes) that can whoop a stock '68 GTO (or many of its contemporaries from the late '60's).

 

Sure, there were super limited production monsters out there (Ram Air IV GTO's, LS6 and LS7 Chevelles, COPO Camaros, Hemi Mopars, 428 SCJ R-code Mustangs, Buick GS Stage I 455's, W-30 Olds, etc.), but those cars were as rare as a new Shelby GT500KR or SS. Rarer than even a Dodge Viper or Corvette Z06. The vast majority of the "musclecars" on the streets in the original musclecar era were small block V8's or big torque (yet low hp) big blocks that were lucky to run 13's in the 1/4 mile, with most running 14's (God forbid, even 15's). Today's musclecar era has fostered so many more cars that whoop on the oldies and in bigger sales volumes. We are truly living in the best of times! However, with the modern musclecar era in full swing I have to wonder if we are nearing its zenith. Many challenges are on the horizon speeding straight toward us (tighter emissions, higher CAFE standards, record oil/fuel prices, political unrest worldwide, the green front, traffic congestion, etc.). I think we have a narrow window of opportunity to enjoy our steeds before the stars, moon, and the sun align in such a way to make our hobby recede.