JETSOLVER Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Found the link Motor Trend Boss 350/V10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Found the link Motor Trend Boss 350/V10 . Oh, yes, yes, yes.... That's awesome for me! I hadn't seen that pic before. And at 350CID a mod V10 has the same bore/stroke of the 4.6 which is square and goes 6,800rpm easily ('01 nat.asp. Cobra). I'd even like a V10 Boss 302. Here's why: It would permit a nice oversquare bore/stroke of 4.0 x 3.5 -- not as oversquare as the orig Boss 302's 4.0 x 3.0 but still permitting rev range over 7-grand which is exactly what you want to take advantage of the superior DOHC breathing. It seems wasteful to me to go long-stroke/low-rev and then supercharge a DOHC motor and thereby take the overhead of the blower on everyday mileage just to defeat the motor's native strength: free breathing at high-revs! An oversquare nat.asp. V10 (or V12!) would be ideal because a V10's ability to naturally generate bigger torque balances out the torque deficiency of shorter stroke/oversquare. So you can have your cake and eat it too: Rev range the DOHC wants and torque equivalent to longer stroke. And the lower rod-cyl angles and 20% more power strokes per turn will keep rod-angles and cylinder side-loading lower. For me that's the ideal combo. Ferrrari has known this for decades. Way-oversquare small-bore V12s: amazing rev-range, power, and good torque. Ok, I'm dreaming to think Ford will do a V12 anytime soon (out of the lab, that is), but the V10 is there and is pefect for a real Boss 302. 500HP no problem (ok, some cam development definately required but not any rocket science). Might not sound as 'perfect' as the naural balance of a 90-degree V8 or V12 (the Viper V10 really sounds like crap), but I've listened to the mod V10 under load in trucks and it does sound much more V8-like for some reason, why I do not know -- maybe that's patly manageable with computer-assisted exhaust tuning. Oh, and needless to say, it's gotta be the all aluminum V10 (still considerable lighter that iron V8 w/ s.c.) and great weight distrib with weight-saving items all around, but a usefull interior (not a Cobra-R)... Thanks for the way-cool pic, jetsolver... <fyi... re my bore/stroke nums above.... they're not accurate; I was thinking old small block bore spacing not modular motor. A 302 V10 modular would necessarily be a smaller bore than original 302. A V10 modular with same bore/stroke as the square 4.6 (3.552 x 3.550) would be perfect displacement for a V10 Boss 351> -68fastback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangesnake Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Thats what Iam talking about.....give me power more power cubic inches with power and call it the BOSS My pocket book is out.....make it a street stomper that no other car company can even touch for the money. Make it do the quarter mile in a blistering time and handle the road and curves with ease call it the BOSS Make it the BOSS. There will be no Challengers or Couldas. Production of the Camaro will halt because it would be an embarrisment, it couldnt hold a candle to the BOSS> come on Ford BOLD MOVES REAL BOLD MOVES FOR REAL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Personally, I'd like to see Ford offer two Boss models. One with a 5.0L V8 (aka Boss 302) and a second with a 5.8L V10 (aka Boss 351). Design the Boss 302 for the road race crowd and the Boss 351 for the street/strip set. Keep the weight down on both, use as much aluminum and lightweight materials as possible to contain the weight, we don't need a 3,800 lb Boss Mustang. The Boss 302 should make at least 400 hp and come with a 6 spd manual and an optional IRS. For the Boss 351, offer an automatic or manual and minimum hp should be at least 450. Also offer a drag pack option for the Boss 351. Anything here that others may like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Personally, I'd like to see Ford offer two Boss models. One with a 5.0L V8 (aka Boss 302) and a second with a 5.8L V10 (aka Boss 351). Design the Boss 302 for the road race crowd and the Boss 351 for the street/strip set. Keep the weight down on both, use as much aluminum and lightweight materials as possible to contain the weight, we don't need a 3,800 lb Boss Mustang. The Boss 302 should make at least 400 hp and come with a 6 spd manual and an optional IRS. For the Boss 351, offer an automatic or manual and minimum hp should be at least 450. Also offer a drag pack option for the Boss 351. Anything here that others may like? Hey, MustangFanatic.. I like your segmentation of the Boss 302 and 351 targeted for road and track markets respectively. In my post above I posted erroneous bore/stroke dimensions (I've since added a footnote in blue), but it turns out that a V10 Boss 351 done with the exact same square bore/stroke dimensions of the 4.6 modular (3.552x3.550) gives you, very conveniently a 5.7/351ci. -- how nice! Maybe the Boss 302 n.a. V8 (road car) would be best done all aluminum for light weight (like the '01 Cobra 4.6) with IRS as you mention, whereas the Boss 351 V10 could offer an aluminum n.a. block and a blown iron block and drag-pack. That would let the Boss 351 play to two audiences, while the Boss 302 more heavily plays to the road course segment. The alum V8 is good to 450HP or so and that would work really nicely since the V10 aluminum bottom-end should be fine to at least 650Hp (the 427 version in the cobra-II prototype was 650HP) while the iron version could have a 800HP design point before requiring bottom end work; plenty of headway in all three cases even each necessarily ship from Ford with substantially less. I'd actually like to see a nicely oversquare small displacement modular available somewhere in the Ford lineup (possibly in a rear-drive Fusion/crosover/awd wagon, but my understanding is that oversquares don't lend themselves to present low-emissions management techniques as well -- but I'd sure be fine with any/all of the combos above. I'm uncertain as to where the motor mounts on the V10 are located relative to the V8. If they're identical relative to the trans-end of the motor (I suspect not) then it would be relatively easy for Ford to offer choice of V8/V10. Even if the locations are different, the Boss 302 with the alum V8 and the 351 with an alum n.a. and iron s.c. would seem not too tough to spec. (I did notice that in the FordGT there's just enough space to the firewall to permit the V10 to shoehorn in there, so maybe the mounts are in the same spot or maybe Ford figured, if they ever did a V10 FordGT, they'd re-engineer the chassis/mounts -- but it is curious how much space they left;-) Anyone have any other Boss 3xx preferences or ideas that might fit in with the approach in this and previous note/s?...or not? ps - love your avatar pic, fanatic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 ... but it turns out that a V10 Boss 351 done with the exact same square bore/stroke dimensions of the 4.6 modular (3.552x3.550) gives you, very conveniently a 5.7/351ci. -- how nice! Maybe the Boss 302 n.a. V8 (road car) would be best done all aluminum for light weight (like the '01 Cobra 4.6) with IRS as you mention, whereas the Boss 351 V10 could offer an aluminum n.a. block and a blown iron block and drag-pack. That would let the Boss 351 play to two audiences, while the Boss 302 more heavily plays to the road course segment. The alum V8 is good to 450HP or so and that would work really nicely since the V10 aluminum bottom-end should be fine to at least 650Hp (the 427 version in the cobra-II prototype was 650HP) while the iron version could have a 800HP design point before requiring bottom end work; plenty of headway in all three cases even each necessarily ship from Ford with substantially less.... I would agree, an all-aluminum engine is the way to go for the Boss 302 yielding a better balance and lighter weight. The Boss 302 should only be offered in N/A variety which would eliminate the need for the heavier iron block. The Boss 302 should emphasize balance and handling along with stopping prowness. For the Boss 351, an iron block and aluminum cylinder head engine is the best option. I really like your suggestion of offering a N/A "base" Boss 351 with a blower included in the Drag Pak Option. While it would be nice if the Boss 351 came with an aluminum block with the N/A car, I don't think Ford has the cash to provide two engine options in a low-volume speciality model. Make mine a metallic black Boss 302 and let me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DVS2XS Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 In order to keep this production possible I feel that the 5.4L/330ci engine is viable. Boss 330 wish list: 5.4L engine with an aluminum block and the current GT/GT500 head with 10.5-11:1 compression could make a good high reving 500-540 crank hp engine at a reasonable weight. Develop a polymer cross-ram intake like the FR500c uses with even lighter weight. H-beam rods, light flywheel, aluminum driveshaft, hydro-formed shorty header with x-pipe and removeable cats - for track days. Reverse L-arm front suspension with live axel or Landrover design IRS options; to keep costs down it could be a FRP package. Tubular adjustable sway bars with quick release, Brembo brakes, and aluminum K-member. Work on lightening the platform as much as possible, 6-speed trans, and several final drive ratios, drysump. Low drag front bodywork with air ducts to brakes front and rear, a working duck-tail rear spoiler, and low drag under pan. FRP powerpacks could include forced induction and drag suspension items for the drag interest. And complete race developed coil-over suspension for the road racers. And sell software through FRP that allows compete access to the PCM. - Just a daydream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Hmmm... some of those ideas (and daydreams) I really like. That Boss 351 would be kick-ass! I checked out Saleen the other day and, besides the prices being ridiculous because of all the Saleen-unique parts, I was amazed that their stage-3 (which is on the GT's aluminum motor) is rated at 550HP 535ft.lbs, with a Lysohlm-type low-boost screw blower (possibly to prevent kicking up the boost and making aluminum schrapnel) and they manage to keep it to 3550lb and 53/47 weight distribution! Why couldn't Ford do that (w/o the s/c and all the body panels and interior mods that Saleen does) and keep the cost more reasonable? Even w/o the s/c, a 450HP alum nat. asp. with IRS and the weight of the Saleen would be one sweet ride truly worthy of the Boss moniker. And for the harcore, there's plenty that FRP and the aftermarket can offer for it -- most of which alreay exists. That would sound like a win/win/win (us/Ford/aftermarket). PS -- hot rumor at Ford is that the mustang line wil leave flat rock and move to where the panthers (Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/TownCar) are presently produced as their nums come down. Mazda wants to buy ford's share in the Flat Rock Auto Alliance plant, supposedly, and moving the mustang line would permit greater volumes (Flat Rock is struggling to contain mustang production within one shift now). Just thinking out loud, but I'd bet that move would happen coincident with the new mustang in '09/'10 model year, which, effectively, is 1-2 years from right now and when the good-ol-days battles reignite with GM and DCX. Sounds like fun ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Even if Ford doesn't produce a Boss 351, there is definitely potential for a Boss 302 and a Boss 329. Most of the parts to design and sell the Boss 329 already exist which would lower the R&D cost. Saleen has already incurred much of the development cost for the 5.0L engine, Ford could leverage and improve the existing engine to ensure that a Boss 302 is a reality for a $35 - $40K price. Ok, I suppose I can wake up from my dream now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Even if Ford doesn't produce a Boss 351, there is definitely potential for a Boss 302 and a Boss 329. Most of the parts to design and sell the Boss 329 already exist which would lower the R&D cost. Saleen has already incurred much of the development cost for the 5.0L engine, Ford could leverage and improve the existing engine to ensure that a Boss 302 is a reality for a $35 - $40K price. Ok, I suppose I can wake up from my dream now.... ..who knows, but that's what I'm kinda expecting them to do... as you say the pieces are there... get the weight & balance right and it's an easy factory ride ...and have you seen the sweet Shelby wheels (like the Parnelli-Saleen) just recently offereed in 9.5" width to accommodate the GT500? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 ...and have you seen the sweet Shelby wheels (like the Parnelli-Saleen) just recently offereed in 9.5" width to accommodate the GT500? No, I haven't but I'll have to browse their site...unless you have pics :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUSTANG FLASHBACK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I think you forgot one. Quantum Flashback ,November 06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 I think you forgot one. Quantum Flashback ,November 06 Hey, Mustang Flashback... You've posted 10 times on this site. Every one is just trying to sell Nick's cars. Not one usefull word in response to anyone else. You might actually consider participating or providing some information or something; but just posting this same pic or one of theother two (usually with Mustang 69's phone number) is getting old, man. So, any info to share? Anything? No? Why are you here then! <lol> Peace... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUSTANG FLASHBACK Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Hey, Mustang Flashback... You've posted 10 times on this site. Every one is just trying to sell Nick's cars. Not one usefull word in response to anyone else. You might actually consider participating or providing some information or something; but just posting this same pic or one of theother two (usually with Mustang 69's phone number) is getting old, man. So, any info to share? Anything? No? Why are you here then! <lol> Peace... . it should be in with the other 3, It has more 69-70 heritage than the other 3,that is the idea,not just stickers,stripes and spoilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 it should be in with the other 3, It has more 69-70 heritage than the other 3,that is the idea,not just stickers,stripes and spoilers Cool! What does it cost for the mods? Is there a website explaining? Thanks. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangFanatic Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Hey, Mustang Flashback... You've posted 10 times on this site. Every one is just trying to sell Nick's cars. Not one usefull word in response to anyone else. You might actually consider participating or providing some information or something; but just posting this same pic or one of theother two (usually with Mustang 69's phone number) is getting old, man. So, any info to share? Anything? No? Why are you here then! <lol> Peace... . Amen, well said. Inquiring minds want to know, we need details!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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