GT500KR - by Shelby?

[JETSOLVER]

I don't think an aluminum 5.4 wasn't used because the aluminum motirs are more expensive, just because they aren't as strong. Of course, if it were reengineered a bit with lightweight forged alum pistons and lightweight titanium alloy rods, an aluminum 5.4 could hold a lot of HP, but such a motor would be expensive for all the additional engineering needed to make it durable at high HP/torque.

 

The GT 5.4 Blown block was destruction tested to 1434hp/1200 ft/lbs of torque! It is far and away the strongest engine Ford EVER built! The connecting rods in that engine are rated to 950 hp and have seen 1200+ in several twin turbo GT's with a completly untouched engine.(fuel injectors and tune!)This is the block they went with for our car"The 5.4L DOHC V-8 in the Lincoln Navigator had the cubes, but its naturally aspirated 300 hp and 355 lb-ft, combined with its portly cast-iron block, fell even shorter of the target." HotRod/Inside the 5.4 GT at SVT

[kb67]

I was looking at it from the cost to prep a motor like it would need to be to provide a motor to run under everyday conditions. Thats why I couldn't see Ford turning over the KR motor development to a outside source. They already probably know what they have to work with so to take it the next step isn't a big unknown. Ford could have made a big statement with this car like Chevy did with the Z06 they went over what people thought they would and made a nasty car. For the money Ford has in the GT500 I'd wouldn't have been really mad if it cost alittle more but gave you something like the 5.4L alumnuim motor and a better balanced car. But I'm hoping Ford will make a nastier version of this car in a KR that could give the Z06 a run for its money. Or maybe the GTR concept will make it out to the streets that would be a cool car to see out :D

[TwinTurboBoss]

..

[gt500hp]

The GT 5.4 Blown block was destruction tested to 1434hp/1200 ft/lbs of torque! It is far and away the strongest engine Ford EVER built! The connecting rods in that engine are rated to 950 hp and have seen 1200+ in several twin turbo GT's with a completly untouched engine.(fuel injectors and tune!)This is the block they went with for our car"The 5.4L DOHC V-8 in the Lincoln Navigator had the cubes, but its naturally aspirated 300 hp and 355 lb-ft, combined with its portly cast-iron block, fell even shorter of the target." HotRod/Inside the 5.4 GT at SVT

 

 

Wait for the Shelby KR. Lets hope if will have 600hp and upwards. IMO it's just around the corner.

Nothing to substaniate this however! :bandance:

[68fastback]

If anyone wants to see the Amy B post it is here:

 

 

That's not it. The post on Shelby, not Ford, doing the KR sems to have been pulled a couple of days after I posted a summary of it here on SU.

 

Essentially it talked about two things: That it would be Shelby, not Ford, who would do a KR (presumeably if one is done, but the implication seemed to be that one be would); the other related to marque ownership and the fact that Shelby owns GT, GT500 and derivatives, like GT500xx and SA licenses those to Ford.

.

[68fastback]

The GT 5.4 Blown block was destruction tested to 1434hp/1200 ft/lbs of torque! It is far and away the strongest engine Ford EVER built! The connecting rods in that engine are rated to 950 hp and have seen 1200+ in several twin turbo GT's with a completly untouched engine.(fuel injectors and tune!)This is the block they went with for our car"The 5.4L DOHC V-8 in the Lincoln Navigator had the cubes, but its naturally aspirated 300 hp and 355 lb-ft, combined with its portly cast-iron block, fell even shorter of the target." HotRod/Inside the 5.4 GT at SVT

 

 

JETSOLVER, thanks a bunch for the Hot Rod link... a lot of good info there.

 

Gives me a nutty idea.... seeing as we don't really need the back seat in a KR, how about that sweet Ford GT 5.4 and transaxle sitting right behind a firewall behind my recaro seat.... my calculations with full amenities at about 3500lbs say 44/56WD, a big trunk up front and 0-60 in 3.5sec or better with the existing motor! I know that's not a trivial build, especially with a unibody car, but I wanna look through that fastback glass at a 650HP (just to keep it within the existing transaxle design point) blue valve-covered twin-screw some day. What a great concept car that would make -- if that don't generate more buzz than an overturned bee transporter I don't know what would. And, if you wanted, it could look on the outside like a stock '09/'10 mustang GT (just for laughs). Oh, hell, let's do the 650HP natasp 6.4L V10 so the blower wine doesn't dilute the sweet intake music. I'd sell most anything I own to have one of those! Regaining my mental balance now... feeling better.. I'll be ok... maybe

 

<edit:> now that's someting I would expect Coletti to cook up if he were still Ford head 'chef.'.

[MuscleManiac]

Has there been any talk of the Cobra concept at all I remember few yrs back when everyone was saying when the GT is over wiell have a super car in its place, what ever happen to that? And the KR is a great idea I posted this before make it all fiber glass 2 seater clone of a GT500 with maybe a different hood and the distinctive twin parking lights in the lower grill, Ford GT motor and a 65k price tag. Gt500 40k Gt500KR 65k, Just like the Corvette 40k and the Z06 for 65k. And I think a additional 20k would cover all the work done to make a KR. Think about it take the 40k of a GT500 and subtract the cost of the the motor and body, then prob be down to 20k idk then that leaves u with 45k left over for a fiberglass body and GT motor. It would work and be badass, around prob 3k lbs with 550 hp and 500+ trq. Perfect Z06 competitor as long as they dont super charge the Z06 whats the news on that secret vette code named like purple monster or something idk forgot the name,lol.

[85gt]

Has there been any talk of the Cobra concept at all I remember few yrs back when everyone was saying when the GT is over wiell have a super car in its place, what ever happen to that? And the KR is a great idea I posted this before make it all fiber glass 2 seater clone of a GT500 with maybe a different hood and the distinctive twin parking lights in the lower grill, Ford GT motor and a 65k price tag. Gt500 40k Gt500KR 65k, Just like the Corvette 40k and the Z06 for 65k. And I think a additional 20k would cover all the work done to make a KR. Think about it take the 40k of a GT500 and subtract the cost of the the motor and body, then prob be down to 20k idk then that leaves u with 45k left over for a fiberglass body and GT motor. It would work and be badass, around prob 3k lbs with 550 hp and 500+ trq. Perfect Z06 competitor as long as they dont super charge the Z06 whats the news on that secret vette code named like purple monster or something idk forgot the name,lol.

 

 

 

It's called the "Blue Devil" a name given to the car because Rick Waggoner (or whatever head honcho at GM that could OK it's production) went to Duke... and yeah, it has a blower and makes the Zo6 look t a m e by comparison. It was rumored to cost about 100K (obviously to keep the numbers down) Pray it never gets a green light. The Z06 already makes many a very capable SCCA licensed magazine editor endure frequent underwear replacements when they turn off the stability control. Now if they weren't so ugly... Somehow though, I can stomach the Z06 over the base car, all those extra vents and scoops quietly say "PURPOSE" very effectively.

[JETSOLVER]

It's called the "Blue Devil" a name given to the car because Rick Waggoner (or whatever head honcho at GM that could OK it's production) went to Duke... and yeah, it has a blower and makes the Zo6 look t a m e by comparison. It was rumored to cost about 100K (obviously to keep the numbers down) Pray it never gets a green light. The Z06 already makes many a very capable SCCA licensed magazine editor endure frequent underwear replacements when they turn off the stability control. Now if they weren't so ugly... Somehow though, I can stomach the Z06 over the base car, all those extra vents and scoops quietly say "PURPOSE" very effectively.

 

OOPS Guess what? leftlanenews/Blue devil gets a name? "

The much-rumored "Blue Devil" Corvette will use the Sting Ray nameplate, according to AutoWeek. The $100,000 model is expected to offer a supercharged 7.0-liter 600-hp V8. Last month, GM's head of performance cars Tom Wallace confirmed that the company will build the car. In January, Motor Trend claimed GM would use the Sting Ray name for a new Kappa-platform Chevrolet positioned above the Pontiac Solstice" Well that is the first shot of a nuclear war folks. Up until now we were just playing with BIG conventional weapons. And Ford has sent its skunk works(SVT) to the rear!!!

[MuscleManiac]

This is why ford needs to step up in the displacement department. I hate how fords answer to performance is 9 times out of 10 a power adder like a supercharger dont get me wrong it works but what happens when your in your supercharged roush mustang and u pull up to the supercharged GTO or vette with the 6.0. We need more displacement that y we need a N/A 5.4 alluminum in a Mach 1 or something or better yet come out with the hurricane 6.0 and drop that in there we need displacement. Worse nightmare has come true a supercharged alluminum 427 in a featherweight Z06 I say good job to Gm that things gonna kick ass but Id like to see ford do the same and thats why we need a KR. This also tells me when the Camaro comes out there will allmost defenetley be a 427 as a option becuase the vette now has a one up performance from the allready potent Zo6. And Stingray for a name is badass I think its abought time the vette has some retro history in its name.

[68fastback]

OOPS Guess what? leftlanenews/Blue devil gets a name? "

The much-rumored "Blue Devil" Corvette will use the Sting Ray nameplate, according to AutoWeek. The $100,000 model is expected to offer a supercharged 7.0-liter 600-hp V8. Last month, GM's head of performance cars Tom Wallace confirmed that the company will build the car. In January, Motor Trend claimed GM would use the Sting Ray name for a new Kappa-platform Chevrolet positioned above the Pontiac Solstice" Well that is the first shot of a nuclear war folks. Up until now we were just playing with BIG conventional weapons. And Ford has sent its skunk works(SVT) to the rear!!!

 

Great find, JETSOLVER... thanks again! (You do find the good tidbits!)

 

I find it iteresting that most of the commenters on that site seem to feel such a Corvette would be too bland-looking and uncomfortable to warrant 100K. I read the first 20-25 comments and could only find several positive ones... suprising! Maybe that just goes to who the Vette audience is or maybe the folks on that site are mostly wannabe types; evenso, I would have expected the bow-tie fans to be semi-orgasmic over a 600HP Sting Ray. Well, GM has always envied Fords loyalty levels -- there are far more Ford-brand clubs/partitipants than any other car brand. And did you notice the one post that swears he has inside info from someone involved with testing the Vette engine that it won't be called either a blue devil or a sting ray, but rather a Corvette SS. You know, it's sort of poetic that a Blue Oval will roll wobbly unless it has evenly spaced blue devils to roll over

 

Well, time to dust off Coletti (jusdt kidding, I'm sure he's not gathering much dust at all). Watch, as soon as Ford product plans are realligned, we'll start to see the new work of Coletti/SVT -- they haven't gone anywhere, they're just very busy reintegrating product plans with FRPP and the new offerings we haven't gotten a whif of yet. I'd be really suprised if that's not what's going down. I think we'll be starting to smile by next summer/fall when the leaks start happening. Yes, I'm just speculating, but it's speculation based on what actions strategy demands Ford take. Such speculation can be cartainly be inaccurate on specifics, but is rarely very far off the mark on overall direction. We shall see.

 

One thing I'm still wondering about... In November 2004, when Ford was the featured manufacturer at SEMA, I spent about 20 minutes with Dan Davis, head of Ford Racing Technology, who was showing a prototype 5.4 modular with a twin-screw blower and integral intercooler built right into the valley betw the heads -- way down low. Dan is a delightful, straight-talking, look-you-in-the-eye engineer-type. He told me it only made sense to put it there since it's otherwise wasted space on a DOHC motor. I asked if it was headed toward production in some way and he said ...no, it's just his 'pet project' (hmmm, shown at SEMA!) but will need more funding for it to potentially go anywhere.

 

Now, realize, that at that same SEMA, Fords HUGE area (the largest of any mfgr by far) was virtually dedicated to the new '05 mustang, FRPP crate motors/parts, and partners one-off customs and new-mustangs to show what's possible, and a half-dozen cherry '60s muscle stangs. There was everything from the FordGT, Daytona-II, Cobra-II, GT-R, boy-racer proto, Roush(twin-screw)/Saleen(?)/Steeda(centrifugal) mustang prototypes (in the Ford area, not their own display areas elsewhere). But there was also a mustang that looked a lot like the GT500, including the engine, which hadn't yet been unveiled anywhere. I even dragged a Ford rep (not Dan Davis) over to it and asked if that's a GT500 prorotype, and it was like I was speaking a foreign language and I could not get him to even acknowledge my questions, let alone get an answer -- it was spooky. When I later asked Dan Davis, he just smiled and said 'stay tuned'.

 

What I'm still thinking on is: did that inverted valley-s/c work complete, is the present GT500 s/c design an alternative, or is a modular with a valley inverted blower/intercooler coming, or did the design not work out or get abandoned for some reason. What was suprising to me is that Dan Davis himself would nursmaid a display-stand motor at SEMA if it wasn't for a specific purpose. It was just one of maybe a dozen (or more) motors on display, but this motor and the 5.4FordGT motor were far away from the other small blocks, big blocks and modulars in the FRPP crate-motor section. He was there for a particular reason for sure. I even had him pose for a pic with that motor because I sensed it was something very special to him. (I can post a pic if there's interest and if I can find it <edit: see below>). Anyhow, just wanted to share this, since it might make sense to someone else in here, but it's still a loose-end for me.

 

<edit:> found 'em.... pix below

 

[JETSOLVER]

One thing I'm still wondering about... In November 2004, when Ford was the featured manufacturer at SEMA, I spent about 20 minutes with Dan Davis, head of Ford Racing Technology, who was showing a prototype 5.4 modular with a twin-screw blower and integral intercooler built right into the valley betw the heads -- way down low. Dan is a delightful, straight-talking, look-you-in-the-eye engineer-type. He told me it only made sense to put it there since it's otherwise wasted space on a DOHC motor. I asked if it was headed toward production in some way and he said ...no, it's just his 'pet project' (hmmm, shown at SEMA!) but will need more funding for it to potentially go anywhere.

 

What I'm still thinking on is: did that inverted valley-s/c work complete, is the present GT500 s/c design an alternative, or is a modular with a valley inverted blower/intercooler coming, or did the design not work out or get abandoned for some reason. What was suprising to me is that Dan Davis himself would nursmaid a display-stand motor at SEMA if it wasn't for a specific purpose. It was just one of maybe a dozen (or more) motors on display, but this motor and the 5.4FordGT motor were far away from the other small blocks, big blocks and modulars in the FRPP crate-motor section. He was there for a particular reason for sure. I even had him pose for a pic with that motor because I sensed it was something very special to him. (I can post a pic if there's interest and if I can find it <edit: see below>). Anyhow, just wanted to share this, since it might make sense to someone else in here, but it's still a loose-end for me.

 

Nice but Daym you should have taken more pics! :happy feet: Couple of questions first. Do you recall what the top off the intake hat had on it, and did you get the sense it had been running? It has no wiring on it that I can see.It looks like an aluminium block,? Does anybody else recall early suggestions that the GT500 had a "rear drive blower"? It is obviously meant for the last generation Stang as the intake will not work on either the S-197 or the truck. I immediatly thought the reason for the setup was a very low hood height, so I am going to see if I can find any pics of the FR500 powerplant as that car had a very low hood. For crying out loud, if anybody here is a SVT insider, go to a public internet cafe, log on with a new handle and PM me so I can pay for it! So we now know that if Ford wants to be the big dog its gonna need 600 horses. And that makes for a need for leaks. Hints? Subtle suggestions? Crap I got it bad. Should I go to my dealer and postpone my order? I've wanted a less bling and more zing car all along. Just had a look and it has almost the same intercooler input/outputs as the GT.

[MuscleManiac]

We do need the 600hp. I think carrol shelby is syniel or the resourses are mixed I read somewhere on the internet that carrol shelby said it be no problem to have a 600 hp mustang if they want to put the 427 in the camaro then I read this other thing that says shelby said that its pointless to have a 600hp mustang that theres no need to get into a power war something like that ill try to find info back this up. And em I the only one that sees a resemblence of the concept mustang in 04 and the new Gt500 look at the front ends there pretty similar and the rear had real shelby tail lights maybe they were planing on doing that idk.

[68fastback]

Nice but Daym you should have taken more pics! :happy feet: Couple of questions first. Do you recall what the top off the intake hat had on it, and did you get the sense it had been running? It has no wiring on it that I can see.It looks like an aluminium block,? Does anybody else recall early suggestions that the GT500 had a "rear drive blower"? It is obviously meant for the last generation Stang as the intake will not work on either the S-197 or the truck. I immediatly thought the reason for the setup was a very low hood height, so I am going to see if I can find any pics of the FR500 powerplant as that car had a very low hood. For crying out loud, if anybody here is a SVT insider, go to a public internet cafe, log on with a new handle and PM me so I can pay for it! So we now know that if Ford wants to be the big dog its gonna need 600 horses. And that makes for a need for leaks. Hints? Subtle suggestions? Crap I got it bad. Should I go to my dealer and postpone my order? I've wanted a less bling and more zing car all along. Just had a look and it has almost the same intercooler input/outputs as the GT.

 

 

Hey, JETSOLVER... I can't tell for sure if it had been run, but from my discussion with Davis I got impression testing had been done (maybe on another motor -- they'd never do just one). I've dug around for some other photos I took and on the one that shows the headers, it looks like it had been run and that the 'blue' was buffed off the headers. Correction to my prior note (I think) this motor is a 5.0L, not 5.4 and, yes, it is aluminum. Not sure what you mean by a rear-drive blower. This is driven in the front. That pulley low down in the "V" is the blower pulley. The intercooler is on top of the blower (inverted design). Note the header color on these 2 pix...

 

Also, these pix I took of a 5.0 Cammer looked to me like a shameless prototype of what could be the new Boss 302 -- it you change the door-sill stripe wording from "Cammer 5.0" to "Boss 302" and paint it yellow, I think it'd be about ready for Parnelli or George to hop in

 

I've also included some pix I took of a 4 x 2V webber 5.0 cammer they showed, which I thought was an unusual throwback combo since I haven't seen Webbers like these in ages (look like thoroughly updated version of the old Webbers on some early '60s Cobras, don't they?).

 

The only other relevant pix I took were of Rousch who also showed a twin-screw prototype (did not look like a Rootes-type) as did Saleen and Steeda.

 

All of the above was shown at SEMA '04. Below is from SEMA '05. (Both are Las Vegas SEMA shows in the fall)

 

And here's pix of a SHELBY labeled Cammer modular with unique Shelby valve covers and a Ford dual throttle-body long-tube intake that I thought was very interesting -- it's being fed by back-driven Centrifugal blower. It looks almost analygous to the CS6 but for the Cammer -- a Shelby CS8 prototype in disguise???, you know, the one I've been trying to get them to talk about over at Shelby Autos but they won't even acknowledge it as something they're even thinking about. Hmmmm....

 

I should have posted these earlier, I guess... I totally forgot about them until I saw your post, JETSOLVER.

 

Looks like some sweet goodies might be coming -- who knows!

[2008GT500KR]

KR for next year will be out "but" the pricing will be a lot more $$$ than current shelby

 

rumor has it the base pricing will be around 60k

 

they will be built in far less numbers than 2007 shelby as shelby american does not have the capability to build a large quantity

 

know someone who works in or is connected to dyno room and everyone would 'love" the big numbers they are getting from some of the prototype engines for possible future use in up coming Mustang models

[68fastback]

KR for next year will be out "but" the pricing will be a lot more $$$ than current shelby

 

rumor has it the base pricing will be around 60k

 

they will be built in far less numbers than 2007 shelby as shelby american does not have the capability to build a large quantity

 

know someone who works in or is connected to dyno room and everyone would 'love" the big numbers they are getting from some of the prototype engines for possible future use in up coming Mustang models

 

 

Who's dyno room is that? Shelby Autos Las Vegas? They have a dyno room? Hmmm.

 

Tell us more

.

[MustangFanatic]

Love that Cammer!!! I'd sell my wife and kids to have one of those under the hood of a new Boss Mustang!!

[68fastback]

Love that Cammer!!! I'd sell my wife and kids to have one of those under the hood of a new Boss Mustang!!

 

 

Yeah, that sure is a sweet motor, isn't it! I posted a link to her from the Boss S197 thread too.

 

I'm wondering why the Shelby valve covers. At the the 06 April NYIAS, Ford would not permit the GT500 rep to open the hood for the entire duration of the NY show. When I pressed the the rep as to why he told me that the name that would go on the GT500 valve covers wasn't settled yet -- that Ford hadn't decided whether the engine would be branded Ford, SVT or Shelby. But why Ford would be showiing a Shelby-branded 5.0 cammer at SEMA 8 months before GT500 job-1 is very curious -- with full tube headers too! That was certainly no accident, but the reason I've yet to figure out. Hmmmm.

[MustangFanatic]

Yeah, that sure is a sweet motor, isn't it! I posted a link to her from the Boss S197 thread too.

 

I'm wondering why the Shelby valve covers. At the the 06 April NYIAS, Ford would not permit the GT500 rep to open the hood for the entire duration of the NY show. When I pressed the the rep as to why he told me that the name that would go on the GT500 valve covers wasn't settled yet -- that Ford hadn't decided whether the engine would be branded Ford, SVT or Shelby. But why Ford would be showiing a Shelby-branded 5.0 cammer at SEMA 8 months before GT500 job-1 is very curious -- with full tube headers too! That was certainly no accident, but the reason I've yet to figure out. Hmmmm.

 

Certainly both of us would love to see a Cammer in the new Boss. That is curious, maybe in the coming months we will come to understand the reasons why the car was at the SEMA show. Just looking at those pictures makes me drool!!!

[68fastback]

An interesting tidbit I found in MT (sept) in the GT-H article:

 

The context is Ford being ok with Shelby doing the GT-H....

 

"Since Shelby's customer is Hertz, not the public, the GT500's sales, Ford dealer agreements, and Shelby Automobiles contract prohibiting the company from retailing it's own Shelby Mustangs won't be affected." [italics are mine]

 

This implies that a GT500KR, though SA has effectively stated that THEY, not Ford would do it (if one is done), would be marketed to the public by Ford (not Shelby). Another piece of the puzzle I think....

 

Another tidbit in that MT article:

 

"Why is it names GT-H instead of GT350-H, like the original? You heard it here: Ford is saving that number for possible future use."

 

Since we already know that Shelby, not Ford, owns all the GT marque variations and liceenses them to Ford (stated by pres of SA a while back), that would see to have to mean that Ford has already licensed GT350 (or has the option to do so) ....or MT is full of which is also a real possibility

 

...

[kb67]

As For Ford being Ok with SA doing the GT-H I think that was part of a deal to allow Ford to use the GT500 name thats just a personal guess on my part. The early ad for the CS6 had the cobra and the shelby name together on the stripe now its only shelby on the there so the retailing their own shelby mustang is a real deal.But in light of what I see happening with the CS6 now I'd wonder how they could pull a GT500KR together. I'm sure they could do it but they seem to have stepped away from being really hands on the CS6. They have put their parts selling partner in charge of handling parts questions and getting out the certifications to the folks that buy a complete kit. I think alot of people where under the impression the CS6 was going to be something SA was going to be more involved in. The CS6 is called a enthusiasts tribute kit adding a blower to a V-6 to me is alittle more than a tribute :D. To me in the beginning they made it sound as if it was going to be in the same market space as the other custom mustang cars. Now its just a body kit you can order and a blower. Maybe I'm missing something there. I'm hoping they are focusing on a KR so the CS6 had to take a backseat but its gotta be kicka** if they come with something because the hype would drive the price up to a point where its going to be some $$$ to get one.

 

The tie in to the GT500 is a great reason for Ford to do a GT350 free marketing and it would fit into a price range that maybe people could actually afford or better yet actually get one. The ADM on the GT500 has caused people to look at other options. Ford would be wise to get version out there for people to go after. If Ford lets a ADM war start again with a GT350 mustang I see alot of lost business Dodge and Chevy are close to dropping something out to compete with the customers Ford has out there right now.

 

I could be totally wrong though Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer. :D

[68fastback]

As For Ford being Ok with SA doing the GT-H I think that was part of a deal to allow Ford to use the GT500 name thats just a personal guess on my part. The early ad for the CS6 had the cobra and the shelby name together on the stripe now its only shelby on the there so the retailing their own shelby mustang is a real deal.But in light of what I see happening with the CS6 now I'd wonder how they could pull a GT500KR together. I'm sure they could do it but they seem to have stepped away from being really hands on the CS6. They have put their parts selling partner in charge of handling parts questions and getting out the certifications to the folks that buy a complete kit. I think alot of people where under the impression the CS6 was going to be something SA was going to be more involved in. The CS6 is called a enthusiasts tribute kit adding a blower to a V-6 to me is alittle more than a tribute :D. To me in the beginning they made it sound as if it was going to be in the same market space as the other custom mustang cars. Now its just a body kit you can order and a blower. Maybe I'm missing something there. I'm hoping they are focusing on a KR so the CS6 had to take a backseat but its gotta be kicka** if they come with something because the hype would drive the price up to a point where its going to be some $$$ to get one.

 

The tie in to the GT500 is a great reason for Ford to do a GT350 free marketing and it would fit into a price range that maybe people could actually afford or better yet actually get one. The ADM on the GT500 has caused people to look at other options. Ford would be wise to get version out there for people to go after. If Ford lets a ADM war start again with a GT350 mustang I see alot of lost business Dodge and Chevy are close to dropping something out to compete with the customers Ford has out there right now.

 

I could be totally wrong though Im not the sharpest knife in the drawer. :D

 

 

I think you're on the right track... When I was at Shelby Autos, LV last fall they were taking orders for the car as if they would do it turnkey (see 2 pix, below). Note, they show it as a Shelby-serialed car and the Cobra and Shelby on the side. Then the focus shifted to a kit with certification, but as of a few weeks ago, not one has shipped to my knowledge and the natives are getting restless from some posts I've seen at SA site. I think they've said they will still certify if you meet all the conditions (if I recall).

 

 

I agree no way they can pull off a KR themselves unless Ford did the build like they did for the GT-H: Ford ships Shelby cars with a special deopt package (no exhaust, no hood, no interior, special motor variant, whatever) and Shelby finishes the build. Or, more likely, Ford does the whole deal, like the GT500. EIther way, sounds like they'd sell through Ford dealers, given that Shelby can't sell 'em (if true). I wouldn't be suprised at that either -- it'd be like a standard non-compete clause (a bitter pill I would think given the history of the relationship from '68, but money makes smiles happen sometimes ).

 

However, given the SA statement that it would be Shelby, not Ford, that does a KR, possibly the GT-H was a warm-up for the KR. I.e. Ford ships a GT500-like stang to Shelby LV, with a special group deopt pkg and already equipped with special group option (FRPP parts, special motor variant, etc). Shelby does some special fit & fnish, serielaizes them as Shelby GT500KRs and they get sold thru Ford dealers. One reason for doing that might be if Ford, being the uber-conservative folks they are, didn't want to offer an 800HP factory monster under their name (for various political reasons -- I can think of a few). The same approach could be used for a Shelby GT350.

 

At least that's the only scenario I can see that could met all of the 'facts' we've come to know so far.

 

Of course, the 'facts' may not be facts, but the fact that the above scenario is not violated by the complex mix of arrangements we believe to be in place, says maybe this is precisely the scenario we'll see. Or maybe SA saying they not Ford would do a KR means it will have their name on it (as in the gt500).

 

I'd sure like to know exactly how many 6.2 huricanes were in that order Ford allegedly put out to the Cleveland plant in March. If it's for 25 (or so) that's engineering/experimentation, etc. If it's 25,000 that's F-series. But if it's something like 500-1000, that'd be VERY interesting! Don't you think?

 

Who knows, maybe Shelby's engine builder in LA is also involved somehow since Shelby is now offering turn-key 427cid 385-series, all alloy, deep-block, side-oilers with siamesed cylinders and 6-bolt mains (514 cid square-point) certified to max of 1500HP -- thoroughly modernized version of the legendary race motor.

 

Not that it needs it, but if I hear anything that hints at real work toward 385-series S/DOHC heads along with Cleveland order size, I think we figued this little puzzle out! I have heard rumors of Cosworth involvement too, but nothing I could track back to any specific source or feel is credible in any way (though I so wish it was!).

 

.

[JETSOLVER]

An additional factor is to think marketing. If the average performance car buyer is going to, by definition, pay something extra they are likely to hold the car/truck longer out of satisfaction. If Ford is on the ball they will play things that so any true SPECIAL editions might cause people to hold that car past the inital sales/marketing/hype of the competitors until the customer wants/needs to turn it over. Then Ford will be ready with the next enticing offering. Admittedly, that means two things, 1. That Ford has the right product(no sticker pkgs, you need real performance to sell that niche now, and 2. That Ford hasn't already committed to something else. Flexable manufacturing is the key, Ford HAS to leverage their performance engineering, marketing and manufacturing in a hurry to ride the wave. I personally hope so but although I buy the product and the message now, I do need to see a committment from them.... Edit: Now that I look at that last bit again , isn't that the original purpose and effort from SVT? Which has now been dismantled and hobbled by the same short term knee-jerk thinking which has them being slaughtered in the business section of the paper? Ford media/John Coletti speech March 14.2002

[68fastback]

I think they're starting to get it... hope so.

 

Rob, did you see that Ford will supposedly be announcing another Shelby next week?! And will be 'branding' their first engine soon. I posted a new thread under GT500 meeting place for now with links but not much info yet. I think the branding is an encouraging sign; it tells me their realizing the currency a name can carry, like Hemi!

 

-Dan

[PhantomAce]

I agree.

All the more reason why I think they'll put some effort into a wicked, shorter stroked NA 5.8 than they will into a 6.2

 

A "Boss 351" (5.8) rings a bigger memory bell than a "Boss 375" (6.2) will.

Just a thought.

 

Mike.

[68fastback]

I agree.

All the more reason why I think they'll put some effort into a wicked, shorter stroked NA 5.8 than they will into a 6.2

 

A "Boss 351" (5.8) rings a bigger memory bell than a "Boss 375" (6.2) will.

Just a thought.

 

Mike.

 

If I calculated correctly, at 4.15 bore 5.8L needs about a 3.45 stroke... that'll rev!

 

A 5.8 big-block ... 8,500rpm and 400-450 hp should be no prob with modest forged factory parts.

 

I get all giddy just thinking about it.

[PhantomAce]

If I calculated correctly, at 4.15 bore 5.8L needs about a 3.45 stroke... that'll rev!

 

A 5.8 big-block ... 8,500rpm and 400-450 hp should be no prob with modest forged factory parts.

 

I get all giddy just thinking about it.

 

 

Now THAT would be wicked, eh?

 

I have a stroked 351W in my garage right now for my old 'chero.

I know my sig at bottom says "393", but it's actually 387. Just, most people wouldn't understand that it's a new block with a stroker kit. Most people punch .030 over for clean-up which gives about 6 cid more, but this one's a brand new Sportsman block with a stock bore, so it's 6 cid less than "normal" for a stroker.

If I say "387" though, everyone would go "huh?, never heard of it".

 

If I get my Shelby's, the 'chero goes away lock, stock and barrel so I can park the Shelby in the garage.

But, if I get screwed on my MSRP deals by the dealer, then I finish it post-haste. Been on hold for over a year, ever since I dropped my deposits down.

 

Mike.

[kb67]

Theres another article posted here on the site saying how many Gt-H's could be produced a day think its was 12 cars a day.That would definately affect what can be done by SA, also as 68fastback is pointing out the CS6 was a serialized car kinda sucks they pull it now and only if someone gets the whole conversion do they get anything to show a certification that really isn't much. I feel the CS6 was a kicka** idea a bang for your buck kinda deal they could have handled the situation they have now better.

 

I think its a done deal on a GT350 it will materialize and I think a Boss will also be available. As the article Jetsolver has posted points to the big gap between the regular GT and the GT500. Ford knows they can make some money by dropping something in there for people to buy thats got more power than a regular GT and has some flash with a name like shelby or Boss attached to it. But if the limited and exclusive poo gets attached to these cars its a moot point prices get jacked and you have the same situation that the GT500 has created.

 

I really hope Ford goes forward with a N.A. 6.2L Boss and a GT350 that can kick out close to 400Hp. it be cool to see. :D

[68fastback]

Theres another article posted here on the site saying how many Gt-H's could be produced a day think its was 12 cars a day.That would definately affect what can be done by SA, also as 68fastback is pointing out the CS6 was a serialized car kinda sucks they pull it now and only if someone gets the whole conversion do they get anything to show a certification that really isn't much. I feel the CS6 was a kicka** idea a bang for your buck kinda deal they could have handled the situation they have now better.

 

I think its a done deal on a GT350 it will materialize and I think a Boss will also be available. As the article Jetsolver has posted points to the big gap between the regular GT and the GT500. Ford knows they can make some money by dropping something in there for people to buy thats got more power than a regular GT and has some flash with a name like shelby or Boss attached to it. But if the limited and exclusive poo gets attached to these cars its a moot point prices get jacked and you have the same situation that the GT500 has created.

 

I really hope Ford goes forward with a N.A. 6.2L Boss and a GT350 that can kick out close to 400Hp. it be cool to see. :D

 

 

I also see that FRPP has dropped the price (now $14,995) on the 5.0 cammer and it's still a full drop-in crate: Nice motor for anyone who wants to do their own Boss 302 I lifted this from the FRPP site...

 

M-6007-T50EA*

The 5.0L DOHC 4-valve “Cammer” engine is an upgraded variant of the 4.6L DOHC 4-valve Mustang Cobra engine, with numerous changes for improved power and durability. This engine is completely electronically managed. As part of the “Cammer” crate engine program, a stand-alone harness and engine management computer will be available separately. This will allow the engine to be used for many applications.

 

With proper headers (not included) and low restriction air intake and vehicle exhaust systems, the engine will exceed 400 Bhp and have a very broad torque curve, peaking over 365 ft./lbs.

 

Among the many features of the 5.0L Cammer are:

 

Variable geometry long/short runner, magnesium intake manifold assembly

 

All new Ford Racing 356 alloy aluminum block, specifically designed for this 5.0L engine program

 

Ford Racing high-flow cylinder heads

 

Ford Racing 12mm lift camshafts with unique valves, springs and rocker arms

 

High-strength racing connecting rods

 

Forged pistons with 11:1 compression ratio (nominal)

 

Complete with power steering pump, alternator and air conditioning compressor

 

Photo and specs may vary

 

 

This assembly is basically a complete package of all the high-performance modular DOHC 4-valve components being offered in the Ford Racing Performance Parts Catalog. These parts are currently in use as the core for a number of widely varying race engine applications. Modular 4.6L and 5.0L DOHC 4-valve engines have been successfully used in drag racing, circle track and road racing. Further component development takes place on a continuous basis at Ford Racing, and will result in ever expanding parts availability for this engine family.

[Guest evilchris]

The CR of that Cammer is VERY BAD for blown applications.