Mr. Haney Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 A while ago there was some discussion about shifters. I responded that I was installing a Barton Ind. shifter in my 13 GT500. A few asked me to post my thoughts after installing the shifter, well I finally got around to getting it changed. First and foremost be prepared to fight like hell to remove the shifter ball from the stock shifter. My ball was ruined by the time it came apart. I actually had a small blemish on the shifter console that was to be replaced by the local Ford dealer under warranty, so I figured I would let them install the shifter at the same time. The reason for this is the transmission has to be lowered to gain enough room to work in the tunnel of the car. The mechanic that worked on the car is a Mustang enthusiast and takes great pride in his work. What he ended up doing to remove the shifter ball was to actual cut the shifter boot with a razor knife to remove the console panel with the ball installed. The new console panel has a new shifter boot, so he wasn't destroying something he needed to use. He than removed the complete shifter assembly and clamped it in a vise. Using a heat gun to heat the Locktite as much as possible without using a torch, he still couldn't remove the ball from the stock shifter. Finally he and another mechanic clamped the shifter ball in the vise destroying the balls finish to gain enough leverage to separate the two pieces. He spent an 1 and 1/2 hours trying to save the ball from certain death. Otherwise the installation was very straight forward and easy to do. As a Mustang enthusiast he was highly impressed with the Barton Ind shifter and felt the quality was far superior to any other product he used in the past on the many of his own cars in the past. He felt the quality of the Barton Ind shifter was well worth the price of the product. Now my impression is very straight forward...........I love it. It is very crisp and precise. The throw is shorter. The shifter is easier to move from one gear to the next, with a solid natural centering action for the second to third gear shift, yet with a easy 4 to 5 gear shift. Sixth gear can still be missed without slight pressure to keep the shifter from indexing back to the center gate position to forth, but it needs much less pressure than the stock shifter to maintain the 5th to 6th gear shift Now some questions and comments have been made about extra noise and vibration with this particular shifter. It does generate a slight bit of extra transmission noise in the first three gears, but seems to quiet down quite a bit in 4th, and even more in 5th and 6th. The noise isn't enough to cause a problem in my mind and the benefits far out way the the slight bit of extra noise created in the lower gears of the transmission It is a GOOD product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Video while shifting so we can hear noise? In the video american muscle made I heard no noises at all, wondering how the shelby barton compares. I've been looking into MGW though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Let me give you a reference point on the sound level. Get in your car turn the A/C system on and adjust the fan speed manually to until the third red bar from the bottom is light. This would be equal to the noise being transmitted from the shifter into the car. At road speeds of 60 mph the tires generate more noise into the interior of the car than the shifter does. If you have the fan speed on three and the stereo on the fifth bar on the volume scale you will hear no noise from the shifter. This is a normal volume level where people can carry a conversation above the stereo. The higher noise levels are transmitted in 1st and 2nd gear, because the gears are rotating at faster speeds in the transmission at slower road speeds, but how often do you drive in 1st and 2nd gear? 6th gear seems to transmit a slight bit more than 3rd,4th and 5th, but again the tires make more noise while cruising in 6th than the shifter does. Now the shifter does exhibit the same notch feeling as the stock shifter as the shifter passes through the neutral position, but this is NOT the shifter. The notch is actually shift detente notches cut into the individual shift rails with spring loaded balls to keep the transmission in the gear chosen and not allowing the other two shift rails to move from neutral while in a gear. This will diminish as the springs loose some of there tension over time for a less noticeable notch as the shifter passes through neutral. The difference in the MGW/Shelby shifter is it allows you to adjust the shifter throws to give or take leverage away from the stick. As you take leverage away from the stick, the notches will become more noticeable, while also shortening the shifter throws. Lengthen the throws and you have more leverage and don't notice the notches as much. I don't believe a video camera will pick up the noise I'm hearing. Also if you rest your hand on the shifter while cruising in a gear this will increase the noise levels substantially. But you shouldn't be practicing this bad habit. Why? Because you are apply pressure to the shift fork and causing it to wear faster while it is riding against the synchronize collar. The extra noise is the sound of these parts touching each other and wearing with a very slight amount of pressure against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman5000 Posted September 13, 2012 Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Thanks for the review, Good information. However I am not impressed with your "mechanic". I have changed my shift ball, and 2 others, each took me less than 10 minutes with a $12.00 strap wrench from Menard's. Yes they were on extremely tight but they came right off with no damage to the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2012 Thanks for the review, Good information. However I am not impressed with your "mechanic". I have changed my shift ball, and 2 others, each took me less than 10 minutes with a $12.00 strap wrench from Menard's. Yes they were on extremely tight but they came right off with no damage to the ball. His comments while trying to remove the ball were that he had removed many shifter balls over the years( he is an older tech) and had never had one this hard to remove in the past. He also stated this was the first one that he has damaged. The dealership has fixed the ball and sleeve at no charge to me. You have to remember he had to remove the ball under a warranty claim with Ford in the first place whether the shifter was changed or not. So no harm or foul in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky44 Posted September 15, 2012 Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 Good review! Have you had an opportunity to drive an MGW-equipped car? I'd be interested in how they compare. I've got an MGW on my 95, and REALLY like it. I'm assuming it will have a comparable feel to the one for my 2013, but truthfully, after just spending about 800 miles behind the wheel in the last 48 hours, I'm pretty happy with my stock shifter. Much better than most stockers out there. I haven't done a lot of real hard shifting yet (still learning the gates, as they seem wider than my 95), but not convinced I even need to make the swap yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Hamilton Posted September 17, 2012 Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 I had a Barton Industries shifter installed in my 2011 GT-500 a couple of months ago during Mustang Week at Myrtle Beach, SC. It is great, no missed shifts or binding or grinding. It is much more sturdy looking and built than the stock shifter. It doesn't have a rubber isolation spacer installed so there is a slight road noise ... if I leave my hand on the shifter while cruising. When I hear a little noise, I always notice my hand is on the shifter and it goes away when I remove my hand. My shifter was installed by Scott Hoag of MRT and two of his workers. Scott worked inside the car while it was up on the lift and the other two worked under the car and the entire swap took about 20 minutes. There was no trouble with the stock shift knob and anybody that looks in the interior of my car thinks everything is stock. I was very pleased with the install and love the way if shifts and feels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Mr.Haney you live in VA right? Where at? I can't decide if I want to get an MGW or a barton maybe you could take me for a ride in your car so I can see the difference between barton and stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngotSilverSnake Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Good review! Have you had an opportunity to drive an MGW-equipped car? I'd be interested in how they compare. I've got an MGW on my 95, and REALLY like it. I'm assuming it will have a comparable feel to the one for my 2013, but truthfully, after just spending about 800 miles behind the wheel in the last 48 hours, I'm pretty happy with my stock shifter. Much better than most stockers out there. I haven't done a lot of real hard shifting yet (still learning the gates, as they seem wider than my 95), but not convinced I even need to make the swap yet. I have CAREFULLY broken in my 2012 and the stock shifter just keeps getting better as I near 1,000 miles. I have had no problems so far with the transmission, shifter or anything else with the car. I will be changing the transmission fluid to Mobil 1 ATF soon. From what I have been reading this should make it shift even better. Based on my experience so far, I have no plans to change out shifters now or in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Mr.Haney you live in VA right? Where at? I can't decide if I want to get an MGW or a barton maybe you could take me for a ride in your car so I can see the difference between barton and stock? I'm outside of Washington DC in VA, very close to Dulles International Airport. If you want to ride in the car to listen to the interior noise with this shifter, I haven't got a problem with that. You may want to come to the area sooner than later, as I'm planning on changing the suspension in 2 to 3 weeks after all the parts show up and it will gain NVH with what I'm going to do. Otherwise you may not be able to hear the shifter after I do the suspension mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Ok I'm like 30 minutes from Dulles. When do you plan to do these suspension mods? Also what suspension mods are you doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Ok I'm like 30 minutes from Dulles. When do you plan to do these suspension mods? Also what suspension mods are you doing? I'm going to drop the car off the first or second weekend in October to be modified, depending on my schedule and whether all the parts have arrived A complete Kenny Brown AGS 4.0 Sport/Comp Suspension kit with the stock Bilstein struts and shocks, KB K-Member, KB Radiator Core Support, FRPP lowering springs, and CS Caster Camber plates. I won't be installing the matrix brace system of the kit, but will use the jacking rails. I may add the Steeda torque brace or have something similar built to reenforce the rear axle lower control arm mounting area of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 What are you adding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 What are you adding? Everything I've listed above from Kenny Brown minus the matrix brace plus the K-member and rad core support http://store.kennybrown.com/product/suspension-kit/sportcomp-ags-40-gt-4-suspension-2010-2012-shelby-gt500-and-boss-302-mustang http://store.kennybrown.com/product/front-suspension/new-ags-40-light-weight-tubular-front-k-member-2005-2014-mustang-and-shelby http://store.kennybrown.com/product/chassis-support/light-weight-radiator-core-support-2005-2013-mustang-and-shelby-gt500 plus I may modify the KB jacking rail to be able to add this brace from Steeda http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-three-point-frame-rail-and-torque-box-brace-for-ford-mustang.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Why going with the Steeda and not the KB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Why going with the Steeda and not the KB? Everything I've researched about the car indicates the full matrix brace is a waste. The reason for this is the car is very rigid in it's stock configuration and the matrix brace doesn't add any structural strength to the platform, but it does add weight to the car. The convertibles have a similar brace to the Steeda part to tie the lower control arm mounting points to the inner and outer frame rail for extra support at the rear of the car. Since I plan on adding Hp to the engine I think adding extra structural strength to the rear axle attachment points might be beneficial to the car. The other problem with the matrix brace system is my car has the track package and I'm not sure the brace can be welded into place without interfering with the rear axle oil lines running to the front of the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 The first link for parts you posted says it comes with a matrix brace. Is that not the full one? Would that radiator support increase NVH? And I thought I was spending too much money on this car lol. Makes me feel better someone else is dropping like 4k right off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 The first link for parts you posted says it comes with a matrix brace. Is that not the full one? Would that radiator support increase NVH? And I thought I was spending too much money on this car lol. Makes me feel better someone else is dropping like 4k right off the bat. I listed the complete kit because it was easier to show you the parts this way. KB doesn't give a price discount for buying the complete kit versus buying the individual parts of the kit. I'm not buying the matrix brace in my parts purchase Neither the rad support or K-member will add NVH, but it will reduce front end weight of the car. The K-member will not work with a stock springs/ride height and stock front lower control arms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Thats interesting the K member does not add NVH? The shelby one which is also the BMR one apparently does I wonder why there is a difference? But would it be possible to ask you when you get these parts to put the rad support on first and see if it really does not increase NVH? If this is the case I would order one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Thats interesting the K member does not add NVH? The shelby one which is also the BMR one apparently does I wonder why there is a difference? But would it be possible to ask you when you get these parts to put the rad support on first and see if it really does not increase NVH? If this is the case I would order one. The K member doesn't add noise as it is a steel frame bolted to the chassis/uni-body just like the stock stamped steel K-member is. Now if use poly motor mounts to hold the engine to the K-member it will add noise no matter what K-member is in the car. The Kenny Brown K-member isn't built to lower the engine like most aftermarket K-members with poly motor mounts. It is built to reduce weight, while also changing the suspension geometry to raise the roll center of the front suspension after lowering the car, and to increase the anti-dive geometry of the suspension so the nose doesn't dive under hard braking. Now you also have to realize that the KB or any other front lower controls arms will add NVH as the LCA bushing are no longer rubber with these additions, no matter who you buy them from. These pieces are bolted to the K-member and this will increase NVH through out the car, but again it's not the K-member causing the NVH. What I also find interesting is Shelby lists the weight of their K-member as 24 lbs, but KB lists their K-member weight at 29 lbs. this makes me wonder if the Shelby piece is as strong/rigid When the car is modified all the changes will be made at once. It is going to a shop for the work, which is 100+ miles from my home. Since I'm not doing the work to the car myself, doing it in stages to see how much each piece adds in NVH isn't an option(unless your willing to pay the labor difference). Here is a link to the shops website if you'd like to talk with them since you aren't that far from them, ask for Mark if you want to talk with the owner http://www.performanceautosport.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 holy hell nevermind they are 2 hours away from me lol. Though I have been looking for a better shop than what I currently go to in the dc/va/md area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 holy hell nevermind they are 2 hours away from me lol. Though I have been looking for a better shop than what I currently go to in the dc/va/md area. The guys estimate for the amount of time it will take to complete the job and hourly labor rate of $89 are very fair in my opinion for this area, especially when the dealerships want $125 per hour for diagnostic work if you don't fix the car after they give you an estimate. The American Iron Series car that he preps finished first in this region, so I think he knows the current body Mustangs very well. Sometime it is worth the extra time and effort to find a good shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted September 19, 2012 Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 Unfortunately for me every shop except the one I go to, to my knowledge are between 40 min - 2 hours away. I live in a crap area lol. Which is shocking because you think in DC there would be some exotic dealerships that do this kind of work but nope there are none that I have found. My shop charges everyone else but me 89 per labor since I've already given them so much business. My only problem with them is because they are always so busy they are so damn disorganized and take all day with my car anytime I take it to them. Plus the only mechanic I liked there is leaving so I actually don't have much incentive to stay at that shop besides the owner giving me good deals and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Just be sure to post pics love to see. I went for the matrix system cause wanted of course the jacking rails, but also plan to add some power later and I seen Shelby used it on there 1000. Figured im not going to be serious track person so the extra weight would not out weigh the extra strength it provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Unfortunately for me every shop except the one I go to, to my knowledge are between 40 min - 2 hours away. I live in a crap area lol. Which is shocking because you think in DC there would be some exotic dealerships that do this kind of work but nope there are none that I have found. My shop charges everyone else but me 89 per labor since I've already given them so much business. My only problem with them is because they are always so busy they are so damn disorganized and take all day with my car anytime I take it to them. Plus the only mechanic I liked there is leaving so I actually don't have much incentive to stay at that shop besides the owner giving me good deals and such. There are some good shops that specialize in Mustangs in the Manassas VA area if these would be closer to you, you may want to try one. Otherwise find out where the mechanic you like is going to and follow him to that shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Just be sure to post pics love to see. I went for the matrix system cause wanted of course the jacking rails, but also plan to add some power later and I seen Shelby used it on there 1000. Figured im not going to be serious track person so the extra weight would not out weigh the extra strength it provided. I'm going to do the jacking rail to make it much easier to raise the car to work on myself. As soon as I get it done, I'll post some pictures. It probably will be a few more weeks though, because KB is waiting on some of the parts they built specifically for my car to come back from the company they use for powder coating. I'm hoping it will be done by mid October at the latest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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