Shelby oil separator

[DubbsFaris]

Wow 688 posts about snake oil people must have a lot of time on their hands lol. The question of whether oil separators are needed is right up there with the meaning of life but I saw firsthand how my intercooler looked like a gulf oil spill when I took my SC off.. not pretty. I'd rather not have oil where only air is supposed to be thank you.

Im betting your supercharger was working fine even with oil residue in it. Our cars- 2013+, we are pushing 15 lbs of boost stock, twice the earlier 500s, and if there is any that need that it would be ours. Thing is, if there is even a small number of blowers that fail because of oil, I don't see Ford leaving a part out that they could easily produce for a couple bucks, and save a crap load of warranty replacements in the process.

 

As far as time on their hands- have you been around this forum lately? It's honestly like watching paint dry in some sections.

[mullens]

Im betting your supercharger was working fine even with oil residue in it. Our cars- 2013+, we are pushing 15 lbs of boost stock, twice the earlier 500s, and if there is any that need that it would be ours. Thing is, if there is even a small number of blowers that fail because of oil, I don't see Ford leaving a part out that they could easily produce for a couple bucks, and save a crap load of warranty replacements in the process.

As far as time on their hands- have you been around this forum lately? It's honestly like watching paint dry in some sections.

Yes my TVS was working fine and I never said oil in the intake would make any SC fail. It's just a matter of efficiency.

 

As far as Ford mass producing oil separators it would be another maintenance item that could cause problems if not emptied regularly. I don't think they want to go down that road.

 

I do agree this is quite entertaining.

[DubbsFaris]

Yes my TVS was working fine and I never said oil in the intake would make any SC fail. It's just a matter of efficiency.

Hmm, all this talk about who makes the better separator, and I think you may have brought up the most compelling question-

 

I'd be extremely interested to see a couple blowers over 10 or 20k miles, and show if there is truly a loss in efficiency, and just how much?

 

In other words- how much HP is robbed over time as oil accumulates?

[mullens]

Hmm, all this talk about who makes the better separator, and I think you may have brought up the most compelling question-

I'd be extremely interested to see a couple blowers over 10 or 20k miles, and show if there is truly a loss in efficiency, and just how much?

In other words- how much HP is robbed over time as oil accumulates?

Good question. It is a fact that oil lowers octane level, which would result in the requisite pulling of timing. How much is unknown as nobody has done a test. But just that knowledge and the gooey mess I saw was enough to make me get a separator. It's certainly not mandatory but nether are other mods that make the engine more efficient. FYI SA put two of them on the Shelby 1000. I'm sure they didn't put them there for looks.

[twobjshelbys]

FYI SA put two of them on the Shelby 1000. I'm sure they didn't put them there for looks.

One of them was.

[mullens]

One of them was.

Granted drivers side is more of an ornament.

[DubbsFaris]

Mullens- irony I'd like to point out-

 

We have the exact same mods. Lol

 

Im not trying to out the mod as a farce mind you, just wondering out loud. ...and maybe bringing a little levity.

 

If we are gonna be philosophical about it, is there really any mod necessary on a vehicle of this power and performance? Lol

[Jer]

Granted drivers side is more of an ornament.

 

The Shelby 1000 deposits oil in both separators. After a hard dyno run, several teaspoons on each side.

 

 

Jer

[mullens]

The Shelby 1000 deposits oil in both separators. After a hard dyno run, several teaspoons on each side.

 

 

Jer

That's interesting..I'm sure that monster is doing just that. I was referring to the 99.9% of others that get next to nothing from the drivers side. I haven't seen one post (besides yours) that has reported any accumulation from that side.

[mullens]

 

We have the exact same mods. Lol

Great minds think alike..

 

[Jer]

That's interesting..I'm sure that monster is doing just that. I was referring to the 99.9% of others that get next to nothing from the drivers side. I haven't seen one post (besides yours) that has reported any accumulation from that side.

 

Well, the 1000 is the car we used for all of our dyno-based testing, since it was the reason we needed our own separator in the first place. We aimed for a high oil capture rate with acceptably low restriction, even under the pressure of a high-horsepower engine at WOT, and we expected our customers to want the same.

Also, just to clarify to everyone, the 4.6, and 5.4/5.8 have different characteristics when it comes to "most active PCV side": the 4.6 primarily vents on the driver's side, 5.4/5.8 on passenger. We decided to offer many different combos to suit everyone's particular need.

 

Also, for reference: http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34353

 

 

 

Jer

[DubbsFaris]

Jer, that's a really good point. The 2008 gt500 with the 5.4 was pushing around 8 lbs of boost. Then the GT350 with the 624hp tune I had around 11 lbs of boost on a 5.0. The 5.8 is right around 14-15.

 

What boost is the Shelby 1000 pushing?

[Jer]

Up to 22 lbs with our tune.

Jer

[Tucker]

 

 

 

The Shelby 1000 deposits oil in both separators. After a hard dyno run, several teaspoons on each side.

 

 

Jer

 

Prove it!

For one the Shelby 1000 has always ran JLT Oil Separators and Being the owner and designed of this separator I can tell you that no oil, let alone "SEVERAL TEASPOONS" were in the driver side after A dyno pull.

 

We tell people all the time and post it on the web site, you will likely never see oil on the driver side, but so many GT500 people buy it for looks.

 

 

For those not seeing the point after 36 pages, let me say it again.

It's not about whos works better, which we have proved to be our original design, but it's about stealing.

 

If you can look at the pictures and video and think they are NOT the same and a copy you can't be helped, but I can tell you most people are not so ignorant.

 

SHR and SA know what they did was wrong and still refuse to give the public proof they work and proof they didn't just knock off the JLT.

 

The fact that our threads are custom is enough for me, but there's so much more.

Some machinest info on the threads:

We consider the threads on the JLT caps and cans to be special or ‘proprietary’ because they were developed exclusively for use on JLT oil separators. The thread is non-standard and it is not used anywhere else.

The thread size is close to 1 ¾”, but it is not 1 ¾”, as a quick measurement of the major dimension would confirm. The pitch is between 11 and 12, so there is no pitch gauge that can properly identify these threads.

A 1 ¾-12 fitting may partially thread onto a JLT cap or can, but the fit would be poor, as any experienced machinist would recognize.

 

 

 

The fact that Shelby's and SHR's parts interchange with ours is PROOF.

 

What do you have to say about that Jer and Marcello?

[SGT/SC#0471]

Whitworth threads?

[SGT/SC#0471]

Out of curiosity, no other reason....was there a part fault when using standard machined threads i.e.: sae or metric?

 

Cheers...and thanks just curious, I like to make stuff (no oil seperators, just parts for chops, cars and marine) and wondered why one would set up a special pitch.

[07SGT2899]

Out of curiosity, no other reason....was there a part fault when using standard machined threads i.e.: sae or metric?

 

Cheers...and thanks just curious, I like to make stuff (no oil seperators, just parts for chops, cars and marine) and wondered why one would set up a special pitch.

being a toolmaker myself, out of curiosity, I was wondering the same thing

[MJN]

Is it a military thread pitch? Thought I once read they on a few things have a couple special thread pitches of their own, maybe not, I don't know for sure.

[Tucker]

Again, not a common thread in any form, but custom made by Metco Motorsports for us (JLT)

 

The fact that Shelby's and SHR's are the same thread is proof the product is a 100% copy and such big companies should be embarressed to be caught doing such things.

 

"We consider the threads on the JLT caps and cans to be special or ‘proprietary’ because they were developed exclusively for use on JLT oil separators. The thread is non-standard and it is not used anywhere else.

The thread size is close to 1 ¾”, but it is not 1 ¾”, as a quick measurement of the major dimension would confirm. The pitch is between 11 and 12, so there is no pitch gauge that can properly identify these threads.

A 1 ¾-12 fitting may partially thread onto a JLT cap or can, but the fit would be poor, as any experienced machinist would recognize."

 

They were made this way due to the size of the parts and to make for easy and smooth operation.

 

It's not like were can BS about this, all you need to do is use thread pitch gauges and see for yourself.

 

I will note that all other separators on the market DO NOT use these threads, but use standard tread sizes, ONLY the JLT and now Shelby and SHR use them...

[richard m.switzer]

Again, not a common thread in any form, but custom made by Metco Motorsports for us (JLT)

 

The fact that Shelby's and SHR's are the same thread is proof the product is a 100% copy and such big companies should be embarressed to be caught doing such things.

 

"We consider the threads on the JLT caps and cans to be special or ‘proprietary’ because they were developed exclusively for use on JLT oil separators. The thread is non-standard and it is not used anywhere else.

The thread size is close to 1 ¾”, but it is not 1 ¾”, as a quick measurement of the major dimension would confirm. The pitch is between 11 and 12, so there is no pitch gauge that can properly identify these threads.

A 1 ¾-12 fitting may partially thread onto a JLT cap or can, but the fit would be poor, as any experienced machinist would recognize."

 

They were made this way due to the size of the parts and to make for easy and smooth operation.

 

It's not like were can BS about this, all you need to do is use thread pitch gauges and see for yourself.

 

I will note that all other separators on the market DO NOT use these threads, but use standard tread sizes, ONLY the JLT and now Shelby and SHR use them...

[2010KonaBlueGT]

being a toolmaker myself, out of curiosity, I was wondering the same thing

 

Ditto.

 

My bet is the threads are cut on a lathe, not with a die. Possibly the lathe cut isn't a SAE pitch/count which would make it different.

 

 

Just a WAG,

Phill

[07SGT2899]

in my professional opinion, those threads are produced on a cnc lathe that will cut any thread that the program/programmer tells/wants it to.

 

most likely the threads are an odd/custom size to maximize internal volume while still maintaining the desired external diameter.

 

a coarser thread would have a larger major thread diameter (bottom of the "V" of a thread) which could possibly cut right into/through/too closely to the desired/required outside diameter of the can

 

a finer thread would avoid cutting into/to close to the OD of the can, but then would be a pain to unscrew cause it would take more turns to get the can off the base.

 

so the custom thread meets somewhere in between the two functional requirements of the part, being 1) structural integrity and 2) ease of assembly/disassembly

 

this is just my hypothesis on the engineering that went into threaded portion of the JLT design

 

then again, I could be totally wrong

 

we'll see if jay chimes in on this

 

edited for mixing up thread terminology

[Tucker]

Nice to see some educated thinkers here and not just mud slingers.

 

Like I said, all our machine work is done by Metco Motorsports, so I can only tell you what I know and I know the threads are a custom design.

The quote I posted is direct from them, but yet again, if you think I'm talking BS, anyone can get ours and Shelbys or SHRs and see they are exactly the same.

 

As you see I have too much proof our product was knocked off by SHR for Shelby, if that's not a fact then they should tell you guys how the threads, size, shape and over all design is exactly the same minus our filters.

 

They F'd up doing this and I will not roll over and let it go like some of you would like.

 

Bottom line, they stole my design. A big company that makes cars for darn sake, took my part and told SHR to make it just a little different and that's wrong, period.

[07SGT2899]

I just went out to the garage and actually measured my JLT unit with a micrometer and thread pitch gauge.

 

It appears to me that the thread is actually a 1 3/4-12 with a very shallow depth of thread (large pitch diameter) and very large thread minor

 

so while I wouldn't call it a completely "custom" thread (meaning that it bears absolutely no resemblance to anything in the "book"), I would say that it is machined as a large departure from a standard thread

[Doug_GT350]

in my professional opinion, those threads are produced on a cnc lathe that will cut any thread that the program/programmer tells/wants it to.

 

most likely the threads are an odd/custom size to maximize internal volume while still maintaining the desired external diameter.

 

a coarser thread would have a larger major thread diameter (bottom of the "V" of a thread) which could possibly cut right into/through/too closely to the desired/required outside diameter of the can

 

a finer thread would avoid cutting into/to close to the OD of the can, but then would be a pain to unscrew cause it would take more turns to get the can off the base.

 

so the custom thread meets somewhere in between the two functional requirements of the part, being 1) structural integrity and 2) ease of assembly/disassembly

 

this is just my hypothesis on the engineering that went into threaded portion of the JLT design

 

then again, I could be totally

I think you hit it right. If the OD of the unit was 2" instead of 50mm there would have been more meat for coarser thread. I guess the 50mm stock is lower cost because it's most likely from an offshore supplier. And the bottom diameter where the o-ring sits can also be larger as it is, a coarser thread would mean a smaller dia for the o-ring, resulting in a larger o-ring cross section. It all makes sense to me!

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I think you hit it right. If the OD of the unit was 2" instead of 50mm there would have been more meat for coarser thread.

 

I'm thinking it has more to do with wall thickness.

 

 

Phill

[07SGT2899]

I think you hit it right. If the OD of the unit was 2" instead of 50mm there would have been more meat for coarser thread. I guess the 50mm stock is lower cost because it's most likely from an offshore supplier. And the bottom diameter where the o-ring sits can also be larger as it is, a coarser thread would mean a smaller dia for the o-ring, resulting in a larger o-ring cross section. It all makes sense to me!

we're on the same page, my friend

[07SGT2899]

 

I'm thinking it has more to do with wall thickness.

 

 

Phill

you're on the right track. less wall thickness means the thread needs to be shallower or it will reduce the wall thickness even more or even cut right through the outside wall of the can!

[Freak]

you're on the right track. less wall thickness means the thread needs to be shallower or it will reduce the wall thickness even more or even cut right through the outside wall of the can!

Oh come on! It's obvious to anyone with a brain the threads were spec'd out to keep the winter air from entering the unit!

 

Edit: Oops. I was trying to quote Phill. I blame my phone.

[07SGT2899]

Oh yeah, that too! Hahaha!