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Super snake wheels would be made if Shelby performance ordered more? Every body wants super snake wheels, let us buy them from Alcoa ourselves.

SS730HP

By SS730HP,
in Shelby Performance Parts

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2nd2none Team Shelby Member

2nd2none

Posted
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The $500 price was when they went on clearance after production stopped (there may have been other various sales where that was the price also). The regular prices were $609/$619 front/rear.

 

Incorrect. From my account when I ordered mine Jan 21, 2010 and they weren't on sale at that time. I've never seen them listed on SPP for anything other than that price (except when they added the black option)

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2010KonaBlueGT Team Shelby Enthusiast

2010KonaBlueGT

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They may have gone up from when you ordered them (no idea what they cost at that time), but they were just over 600 for a while before they discontinued them.

 

 

I've never seen Shelby offer their Alcoa Dura-bright wheels for anything other than $495.oo per wheel, unless you count the black ones. And I watched them like a hawk because I tried to catch them during a sale. Shelby would either say they weren't included in the sale (along with blowers) or they never had them in stock during a sale. Cruzin' Concepts on the other hand, sold them for MORE than $495 ea but I can't remember exactly how much more.

 

And that was since about September of 2009.

 

I have a feeling you're thinking of and/or quoting one of the Shelby vendors (Quantum, Cruzin' Condepts, etc.) on that price.

 

And they were $495.00 ea. when I bought mine during the inventory elimination (discontinuing) event.

 

When Shelby was selling the black Alcoa's, they were being sold for $650 ea. if I remember right.

 

 

Phill

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JDB Team Shelby New Member

JDB

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Frankly, I'm not just surprised but I am *shocked* that Alcoa holds the design patent for these wheels rather than Shelby.

 

That means ALCOA is the one that designed them and not Shelby. I would have thought SA designed them but thinking about it, I will ASSUME that Ford Motor Company played some part in having Alcoa design them when the KR was being designed and had Alcoa draw them up.

 

 

 

That really doesn't surprise me. Alcoa does wheels. That's what they specialize in. Manufacturability/performance/costs are key components to an artisitc design style, so they would also have the best feeling for whether or not a design can be executed based on all parameters. They probably have thousands of designs on file that never see the light of day.

 

Since these are forged, the biggest question I have is: who paid for and owns the tooling? The subsequent question is: with this large upfront tooling cost paid for and already amortized with the first run, why is a second order so expensive or complicated even with smaller minimums? I'm guessing that the original contract between Shelby and Alcoa should have had provisions for re-orders, even at smaller minimums. And in hind-site, maybe future agreements with suppliers will include something to this effect. It's a shame to go through so much up-front work, only to have a stumbling block prevent continued revenue for an item that's become unexpectedly popular. If Alcoa designed the rims AND owns the tooling, then they really are in the driver's seat...especially if there were no contractual provisions as mentioned. I wish you guys the best in your negotiations.

 

In regards to milling the words in the rims, I have the equipment and experience to do this. It's not that difficult for advanced machine shops that specialize in 3- or 4-axis 3D milling. Alcoa either does this in-house or has preferred vendors for this.

 

Based on the descriptions of the surface finish, my guess was that it was based on a brite-dip anodize process. I found a Patent below, which appears to be based on that. "Dura Brite C" is mentioned in the Patent, and this Patent could be a modified derivitive. IMHO it also makes sense that it would be developed and patented by a chemical company such as PPG, and likely licensed to Alcoa for exclusive use under the Dura Brite name. This license may include exclusivity within Alcoa's core business, which is aluminum wheels. PPG may also license it to other manufacturers, for other products, to be labeled with other brand names.

 

If my link doesn't work, it's US Patent # 5,439,747

 

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=11&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=durabrite&OS=durabrite&RS=durabrite

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Jer Team Shelby Enthusiast

Jer

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If we cannot get the them back, can we get the stock wheels to become real concave and wider?

 

8027409023_5ee53d046d.jpg

 

 

I'm not jumping to conclusions just yet.

 

 

Jer

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svt13 Team Shelby Member

svt13

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Jer it's been 2 months. Is this happening or not? We gotta get some kind of substantial update. It still can't be either way. Either you think you can overcome these hurdles you are experiencing or not.

 

Alcoa wants to do it, Alcoa has the patent, you guys have the demand. I don't know who has the tooling. It should be so easy to get this done. If you all have been discussing price for 2 months then forget it. Or if you owe Alcoa a lot of money and they won't produce these wheels unless you pay them back then abandon it. Someone has to give for it to happen or abandon it. If price is not the hold up then please tell us what is.

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2010KonaBlueGT Team Shelby Enthusiast

2010KonaBlueGT

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1. That really doesn't surprise me. Alcoa does wheels. That's what they specialize in. Manufacturability/performance/costs are key components to an artisitc design style, so they would also have the best feeling for whether or not a design can be executed based on all parameters. They probably have thousands of designs on file that never see the light of day.

 

2. In regards to milling the words in the rims, I have the equipment and experience to do this. It's not that difficult for advanced machine shops that specialize in 3- or 4-axis 3D milling. Alcoa either does this in-house or has preferred vendors for this.

 

3. Based on the descriptions of the surface finish, my guess was that it was based on a brite-dip anodize process.

 

1. I was just taken aback by the fact that *Alcoa* owns the design patent on the wheels vs. Shelby or Ford Motor Company. I would think they have the dura-bright process patented but the DESIGN? I was under the impression that SHELBY designed them, not Alcoa. It makes sense what you say though, that since Alcoa has parameters which they have to be within for the manufacturing purposes, they would have to be at the very *least* 'involved' in the design. I've seen instances of drafting blueprints that would never be able to be manufactured because the drafter/drawer had no clue as to Mfg. Processes.

 

Like I said, I'm educated (and slightly experienced) in Manufacturing Processes but I have NO experience in designing or the process from draftsman to machinist (or vice versa). What you say makes sense...

 

 

2. That's pretty much what I was saying. With just about any decent machine shop, the lettering could be milled into the rim. HOWEVER, I have since investigated a little deeper and found out (by observation) a couple of interesting items. Those being;

 

 

3. That is one of the conclusions I just recently came to. I got out my "Bigg Ass Magnifier" (BAM) and looked closely at the letters on my GT500KR wheels. Somewhat like Robert M's wheels, the KR wheels are also "ball milled"...Sort of. His obviously were made with a small ball mill using a double pass. Mine were milled with a "V" shaped mill rather than a "ball" shaped bit and mine only have a single pass. The V isn't sharp at the interesection but it's not U shaped like a ball mill would make it. I can clearly see the V shape at the intersection of the T.

 

I also observed a rise in the edges around the letters. That leads me to also believe that Alcoa uses a dip process. If the letters were stamped, I'd say the rise was from the stamping but they are not. It appears the rise is from where whatever they dip the wheels in, 'floats' and collects around the edges of the letters (much like paint will if you dip something).

 

That also leads me to believe that the dipping process is POST letter milling so if you were to mill the extra "Super Snake" letters into a completed wheel, it would have to be through the dura-bright coating. It may or may not chip the coating and only a experiment on one would tell for sure. I personally wouldn't be concerned with dulling, tarnish or oxidizing as I explained in my previous post due to the quality of aluminum Alcoa uses.

 

 

Phill

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2010KonaBlueGT Team Shelby Enthusiast

2010KonaBlueGT

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Jer it's been 2 months. Is this happening or not?

 

Like I said in another theread, "You ain't be around these parts very long, 'ave ya boy!"

 

2 months in Shelby time is a second in real time. Recently past history is proof of that.

 

I am NOT knocking Shelby, just stating the facts.

 

 

Phill

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JDB Team Shelby New Member

JDB

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1. I was just taken aback by the fact that *Alcoa* owns the design patent on the wheels vs. Shelby or Ford Motor Company. I would think they have the dura-bright process patented but the DESIGN? I was under the impression that SHELBY designed them, not Alcoa. It makes sense what you say though, that since Alcoa has parameters which they have to be within for the manufacturing purposes, they would have to be at the very *least* 'involved' in the design. I've seen instances of drafting blueprints that would never be able to be manufactured because the drafter/drawer had no clue as to Mfg. Processes.

 

 

My career expertise is early product development/prototyping. I've had my hand in consumer products, medical, computers/tech, and some automotive. From what I've seen, supplier companies have become highly specialized and niche, so it makes sense to me that Alcoa goes from napkin-sketch to bolt-on ready OEM parts completely in-house. I've seen tail lights done this way in automotive, and I used to make dozens of computer box bezel prototypes for the HP/Dell's/Gateway's to hand-select their preference with all the choices laid out on the conference table in front of them. The end-user/customer believes this is coming from the brand itself, but in so many cases it's a design that was selected from many options, and that ultimately is just a selection from many that represents the brand image best and coming from an unknown 3rd-party supplier.

 

I'm on the same page with everything else you mentioned.

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SSSNAKE Team Shelby Member

SSSNAKE

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Jer it's been 2 months. Is this happening or not? We gotta get some kind of substantial update. It still can't be either way. Either you think you can overcome these hurdles you are experiencing or not.

 

Alcoa wants to do it, Alcoa has the patent, you guys have the demand. I don't know who has the tooling. It should be so easy to get this done. If you all have been discussing price for 2 months then forget it. Or if you owe Alcoa a lot of money and they won't produce these wheels unless you pay them back then abandon it. Someone has to give for it to happen or abandon it. If price is not the hold up then please tell us what is.

 

 

They're waiting for you to finally give up buy those $5000.00 Alcoa's you've been resisting. :lol2:

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Jer Team Shelby Enthusiast

Jer

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Jer it's been 2 months. Is this happening or not? We gotta get some kind of substantial update. It still can't be either way. Either you think you can overcome these hurdles you are experiencing or not.

 

Alcoa wants to do it, Alcoa has the patent, you guys have the demand. I don't know who has the tooling. It should be so easy to get this done. If you all have been discussing price for 2 months then forget it. Or if you owe Alcoa a lot of money and they won't produce these wheels unless you pay them back then abandon it. Someone has to give for it to happen or abandon it. If price is not the hold up then please tell us what is.

 

 

We're working on it right now!

 

BTW, I've been an employee here for 36 days. Whatever two months you're talking about aren't on my calendar.

 

Breathe. Relax. I promise I'm doing my best.

 

 

Jer

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Mr. Haney Team Shelby New Member

Mr. Haney

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I also observed a rise in the edges around the letters. That leads me to also believe that Alcoa uses a dip process. If the letters were stamped, I'd say the rise was from the stamping but they are not. It appears the rise is from where whatever they dip the wheels in, 'floats' and collects around the edges of the letters (much like paint will if you dip something).

 

That also leads me to believe that the dipping process is POST letter milling so if you were to mill the extra "Super Snake" letters into a completed wheel, it would have to be through the dura-bright coating. It may or may not chip the coating and only a experiment on one would tell for sure. I personally wouldn't be concerned with dulling, tarnish or oxidizing as I explained in my previous post due to the quality of aluminum Alcoa uses.

 

 

Phill

 

Phil

 

You may think that an Alcoa forged polished aluminum wheel doesn't oxidize quickly. Used in a harsh environment I've seen an Alcoa polished forged aluminum wheel lose its luster in a day once it was subjected to the right elements. One that many people wouldn't think of is driving on a gravel road during a rain storm when the gravel used to build the road is limestone. The ph of the limestone and water mixture will oxidize the polished aluminum in less than 24 hours and it won't matter if you rinsed the mixture off as soon as you got to asphalt pavement at the end of the gravel road. If you think that is bad.........you need to see what is know as "HOT Lime" and what it will do to a polished aluminum wheel. With water the polished aluminum won't last but a few seconds before it turns black from this stuff

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SSSNAKE Team Shelby Member

SSSNAKE

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We're working on it right now!

 

BTW, I've been an employee here for 36 days. Whatever two months you're talking about aren't on my calendar.

 

Breathe. Relax. I promise I'm doing my best.

 

 

Jer

 

 

36 Days??!!! that's 30 days more than it took THE MAN to do the whole heaven and earth thing!

 

 

C'mon Jer, get with the program!!!

 

 

Sheesh....

 

 

BTW, are the other 3 done yet? :P

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svt13 Team Shelby Member

svt13

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We're working on it right now!

 

BTW, I've been an employee here for 36 days. Whatever two months you're talking about aren't on my calendar.

 

Breathe. Relax. I promise I'm doing my best.

 

 

Jer

 

Oh I quoted 2 months from when this thread started lol. I thought you chimed in at the way beginning of it. Guess I was mistaken oops. Sorry

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svt13 Team Shelby Member

svt13

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What does NIB stand for?

 

I want these wheels for 2 reasons. So I can use my stock ones during winter and not have to worry about switching out tires off them every 6 months.

And because the alcoas look the best on this.

Also because they will be easy to sell to other mustang guys rather than say HREs

 

Guess that was 3 reasons.

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Jer Team Shelby Enthusiast

Jer

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What does NIB stand for?

 

 

Need

It

Bad

 

 

Jer

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SSSNAKE Team Shelby Member

SSSNAKE

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What does NIB stand for?

 

I want these wheels for 2 reasons. So I can use my stock ones during winter and not have to worry about switching out tires off them every 6 months.

And because the alcoas look the best on this.

Also because they will be easy to sell to other mustang guys rather than say HREs

 

Guess that was 3 reasons.

 

 

Are regular Alcoa's ok?

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