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How long did it take you to get a build date & VIN?


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WindowSticker.jpg Can anyone tell me how to read this? I am trying to figure out when it will be done being built. And delivered

 

This car was built on June 26th, 2012

 

With regards to shipping, its "usually" around three weeks depending on where to.

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Thanks, I knew the build date was just trying to figure out the rest. Its being shipped to Upstate NY

 

This car was built on June 26th, 2012

 

With regards to shipping, its "usually" around three weeks depending on where to.

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My Window Sticker is up this morning !

 

Build Date 6/29/2012

 

Finally !!!!

 

Now the wait for shipping will begin :(

 

 

Question: from the date your VIN was issued, how many days until you were able to view your windowsticker online?. Which weblink did you use to view the windowsticker? I tried using Phil's weblink instructions, but would receive error message.. Maybe it was an 'operator error' on my part? Thanks for your help! Laura

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If you notice, 6/26 is the blend date, that is when all parts are scheduled and verified to be there. The numbers 0629 would be the build date.

 

 

If that's the case then mine is not being built until 27/08

 

The last four digits you are referencing are the blend code. Not build date.

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Unless we can get someone who actually works on the Mustang line or someone in Customer Service to come forward and give a better explanation, we are stuck with guessing when it comes to exactly why our cars are on a hold do to a material shortage..

 

 

No, we're not. THERE IS NO MATERIAL SHORTAGE.

 

My information came from the SVT Sales Manager at Phil Long Ford-Motor City in Colorado Springs, CO. Where did yours come from?

 

I'm telling you. The "Material Hold" status means it hasn't been scheduled. Note that none of the previous "Material Hold" cars got releases all on the same day. If there was a actual hold for some mysterious bolt or shift knob, they would have all been released at the same time. That isn't the case.

 

 

Phill

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Phill,

I got my information from SVT. What you are not taking into consideration is that the material shortage doesn't have to refer to a shortage today, it could be a projected shortage. Manufactures have to plan on parts that will be needed for products that are to be made in the future. When they make a decision to schedule a car for production, they have to look at the next available production date and determine if the parts required are either in stock or are scheduled to be in stock for that particular car and on the date of the projected build.

When I called SVT about the cars status, I was told that it was in process, unscheduled for production and it was on a material hold. In my case the material hold is the reason it hasn't been scheduled for production.

Material Hold and Compatibility are just two reasons for the car not being scheduled for production. These are the only two reasons I have experienced, someone else may have other problems with their order.

So when you say "The "Material Hold" status means it hasn't been scheduled." you are correct, but "Material Hold" is just an explanation for the delay in scheduling.

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Phill,

I got my information from SVT. What you are not taking into consideration is that the material shortage doesn't have to refer to a shortage today, it could be a projected shortage. Manufactures have to plan on parts that will be needed for products that are to be made in the future. When they make a decision to schedule a car for production, they have to look at the next available production date and determine if the parts required are either in stock or are scheduled to be in stock for that particular car and on the date of the projected build.

When I called SVT about the cars status, I was told that it was in process, unscheduled for production and it was on a material hold. In my case the material hold is the reason it hasn't been scheduled for production.

Material Hold and Compatibility are just two reasons for the car not being scheduled for production. These are the only two reasons I have experienced, someone else may have other problems with their order.

So when you say "The "Material Hold" status means it hasn't been scheduled." you are correct, but "Material Hold" is just an explanation for the delay in scheduling.

 

 

Mine was ordered late April and stayed in "order processing / on material hold/ unscheduled" until last Thursday.

Got my vin number last Thursday and window sticker was available last Friday. Showed a build date of 6/29

Just called SVT and they verified car IS BEING BUILT TODAY, JUNE 29th!

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I just got word today that my window sticker will be available on 7/12 and a delivery date to the dealer on 7/21. I am not keeping my fingers crossed that it will show up that close to the build date which should be by 7/19. I don't see them putting it on a train and getting it to the sealer by truck in 2-4 days. We shall see if it all comes true or not.

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Man this is killing me. Still unscheduled with no ETA. It's been 7 weeks now and nothing. No one cal tell me anything. My dealer can't even tell me what quarter it will be built. If anyone knows of a dealer who has an order that can be changed, but is going to be built soon, please let me know.

 

I have one lead, but all they can tell me is that they think their order will get pulled in the next 4 weeks. I have no idea if I should trust that......

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Man this is killing me. Still unscheduled with no ETA. It's been 7 weeks now and nothing. No one cal tell me anything. My dealer can't even tell me what quarter it will be built. If anyone knows of a dealer who has an order that can be changed, but is going to be built soon, please let me know.

 

I have one lead, but all they can tell me is that they think their order will get pulled in the next 4 weeks. I have no idea if I should trust that......

 

Did you get a DORA report? From what I understand, when the car is *ordered* a DORA is generated. Without a DORA, the car hasn't likely been *ORDERED* by the dealer. There could be a number of reasons but only your dealer would know for sure.

 

And I think the only dealer that can tell you the status is your *ordering* dealer. That is to say, if you gave me your VIN and I ran down to my dealer and had my bud look at his computer, it would only show *his* orders, not other dealers.

 

 

Wish I could be more helpful,

 

Phill

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Did you get a DORA report? From what I understand, when the car is *ordered* a DORA is generated. Without a DORA, the car hasn't likely been *ORDERED* by the dealer. There could be a number of reasons but only your dealer would know for sure.

 

And I think the only dealer that can tell you the status is your *ordering* dealer. That is to say, if you gave me your VIN and I ran down to my dealer and had my bud look at his computer, it would only show *his* orders, not other dealers.

 

 

Wish I could be more helpful,

 

Phill

 

Yeah, I have an order number, etc. Ford Customer Service sees the order too. It is what it is I guess. :(

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Yeah, I have an order number, etc. Ford Customer Service sees the order too. It is what it is I guess. :(

 

Farmboy, I'm in the same boat as you, and ordered on the same day, apparently. I also got my order # and dealer # etc, and I'm thinking if it wasn't officially ordered, SVT would not show it as in process. I also asked if there were any incompatibilities or problems with my order, and they said no it was fine.

 

If you look at many of the posts on this thread, there are folks who have waited almost 3 months for the first status change. Of course, there are those who beat the odds, but it looks as if we should maybe figure closer to 11 weeks before we see a VIN or any scheduling activity. That's just an estimate, and the other thing that makes it difficult to guage is that many people "pre-ordered", so during that time when no cars were being built, it makes sense that their wait would be longer. Now that a steady flow of cars are being built, I would estimate that in the next 4 weeks or less, our orders should break loose.

 

Here is an informative article I found which may shed some light on the mystical process that is followed by Ford and the dealers:

 

Note that this is excerpted from another forum and is written for truck orders, but it seems relevant. Forum link here: http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f61/ford-dealer-discusses-orders-allocation-19747/

 

This is lengthy and was written about trucks, but may give you insights regarding the "system".

 

"Order types

 

There are 3 basic order types, Stock, Retail, Fleet. There are others, but I'm not going to just use these 3. AXZD plan will fall under Retail in my description. The other types are Dealer Demo, drivers ed loan out and lease renewal order. Again I'm going to just use the 3 as the others basicly fall under those 3 also.

 

Stock- Unsold orders for dealer inventory. Order type 2

 

Retail- Sold orders, have a customer name assigned to them in the system. These also usually have price protection in case of an increase. Stock units don't. Its an order type 1 in the system (or A, X, K for the weird order types)

 

Fleet- Sold orders for compaines with a valid Fleet ID. (a fleet ID requires 15 units in service). This order type schedules differently and also gets different't pricing. Rebates don't apply to fleets (but they do have a "Retail greater than Fleet" discount if rebates are bigger than fleet discounts. They also don't pay the FDAF fees and other things. Orders are schueduled out of a fleet pool and not the dealers allocation, but more on that later. This is an order type 0.

 

Next on an order is an order number. This doesn't mean much its just a way of tracking. Its a 4 digit number (or letters) and is assigned by the dealer. I use the order date for mine. This is one of the 3 items you need to check the status of an order.

 

Body type- This just tells what the truck is, for example a X14 is a Supercab 4x4 styleside. The first letter is the cab style (F=Regular cab, X= Supercab, W=Crewcab) The second digit tells more. On the New F-150 a 0 is a flareside, 1 is a styleside (2 is a F-250, 3 F-350, etc). The 3rd digit tells whether 2 or 4 wheel drive (on New F-150 2 is 2wd, 4 is 4x4, old style was 7 and 8). This explination applies to F-Series trucks, cars can be different. This item is also needed to check an order.

 

Dealer code- This is also on the order and is needed to check the status of an order (with Ford, dealer only gets listing of his units). This is a set of 2 numbers, a letter, and 3 more numbers. The first two corespond to the region, letter tells the zone in that region, and last 3 identify the dealer. Mine is 53W544 (53=KC region, Zone W, dealer 544). This is the 3rd thing needed to check the status of an order. All 3 are listed together on a DORA on the Upper portion far right a few blank lines below the priority code.

 

A DORA is a Dealer Order Recipt Acknoldgement. Its a printout we get back from Ford after ordering. Usually comes next buisness day. You should get one from your dealer after ordering. Its a good way to verify what's ordered is what you want.

 

2. Priority Codes. This is listed on the far right upper portion of a DORA. Its also on the dealers print outs of order status. This only applies until a unit is scheudled. Once assigned a VIN this doesn't mean anything anymore.

 

The codes start at 1 and run to 99. A dealer can only assign between 10 and 99. A 99 order can't be schuduled. I use these for people that tell me to get them a unit on date (later than normal orders take). I put in a 99'd order so I have what they wanted in the system and don't forget about it and then change it to a buildable priority when time comes they're ready for the truck. The region (or other Ford divisions) can prioritize below 10, I've only seen a 01 priority below 10. They do this in the event of something unusual, most orders never see a priority 01. An example is if they're manually scheduling (like the First F-150 for each dealer, or first year T Birds) or if its something that needs to be urgent (first order destroyed in shipping, etc). Again I normally only see this a few times a year. Also if you do get a priority 01, things usually get scheduled fast even if you have some hard to get commodites (but not hold items). More on commodities later. I believe that the under 10 prioritys go first through the allocation system.

 

Other priorities are to organize what order the dealer wants the trucks in. These only affect that dealer and have no bearing on other dealers. If a dealer only uses 50 or higher, another dealer that starts at 10 won't get his trucks any sooner. This system is to organize the order so they are "in a row" for scheduling. That way in the first pass of scheduling they only look at 1 truck per dealer, then on second pass look at 2nd one. Regardless of what the number actually is. If 50's the lowest at dealer a and 10's my lowest, they are both in the first pass, and are equal to each other.

 

More than one order can have the same priority. If this happens they system looks at order types and then order date. Retails take priority over stock and oldest takes priority. For example:

 

order 1234 Retail order date 9/3/03

order 4321 Retail order date 5/5/03

order 5555 Stock order date 4/4/03

The Retail orders take priority and then oldest order comes first. So the system would look at these in this order:

Order 4321 because its the oldest retail at this priority

order 1234 2nd as its a retail

order 5555 being a stock order its 2nd despite order date.

 

Also Priority can override stock, retail or order date. If a retail is priority 20 and a stock is 19, the stock tries to schedule first, the retail and date thing only applies to orders with the same priority number.

 

So the big thing I want everyone to know is don't get too worried if your not a priority 01 as this is very rare, also don't worry if your not at priority 10, I start my retail ordes at 20 so I've got some room if something comes up that I need to prioritize under my current orders I can.

 

On Fleet orders, none of this priority stuff applies. The priority codes are to control build date and are a letter and a number that correspond to a build month and week. This isn't to get stuff quicker but actually slower. Often fleets will order in January and not want the units for a few months. I can order so it can't be built until later so it will arrive in time but not overly early. Fleet units don't compete with retail or stock at all for scheduling as fleet comes out of their own pool and not from a dealers allocation.

 

3. Allocation- Now that we've got orders in the bank they have to be Scheduled, oh getting ahead of my self, I better list some terms that apply to order status. These are on the dealer printouts so if you see these you'll know what they mean.

 

Matl HOLD - unit can't schedule - something is not availble. for example, my Harley F-250 is in this status as production doesn't start until 11/3/03

 

unschd/clean- unit isn't scheduled (no VIN, no date, no guarantee to build), but is a buildable order once allocation and commodities allow.

 

Submitted to plant- Unit assigned a VIN and assy plant, plant is assigning build date.

 

Scheduled- has a build date and a vin

 

Locked in- Changes can no longer be made to this order, unit is either close to being built, or at the end of the year they lock in orders early so they don't have left over parts between model years.

 

Bucked- Unit is close to production, its my understanding that this mean the frame is on a Buck that is used to roll it down the line.

 

Produced- Unit is built

 

Rel from plant- Unit is built and through inspection, available to ship. May also say Rel to Rail, or rel to convoy depending on location

 

ttgxx7837934- or some weird number like this means its on a rail car and that is the number.

 

Arrived at ramp XX- has arrived at the rail head and been unloaded, the XX is a usually a number and letter. Mine go to 6P (kansas City) or 4T (joliet, IL)

 

Ok, now that we've got some terminology lets talk allocation. Allocation determines who gets the units for that build week. The way allocation is split is based on Sales and availability. They don't count equally, I think sales factor 60% and availability 40%. The region like to call it turn and earn. The more you sell and fewer you have, the more you get. So if you've got lots of units on the ground and haven't been selling them, you won't get many new allocations. If you have none because you sold them all you should get a good number allocated. This information doesn't help a customer much as you really can't tell what dealers will get allocation. Larger dealers will get more allocation, but will have more orders also so doesn't mean faster scheduling. Generally most dealer are in similar situations and wait times will be similar. There are exceptions to this, for example 1999 Super Duty's were hard to get, but we had plenty of them as in a rural community we've always sold lots of HD trucks and the sales history helped us and hurt the city dealers that were selling them because they were "hot", this will hurt us the other way when the 05 Mustang comes out as I don't sell many normally I'll have a harder time getting them. Now this system ends up with leftovers as it doesn't end up with every dealer earning exact allocation and its hard to schedule .44 of a truck, so the left overs are used to get allocation to dealers that have retail orders and didn't earn (or earn enough) allocation to schedule them.

 

Select and Contact dealers. There are 2 classifications of dealers Select (smaller dealers) and Contact (large dealers), for scheduling there are sometimes some differences. Right now on F-150 both work in the same allocation system, but on most other models (and F-150 starting in approx December) the select dealers won't have to get allocation, they get every order they place automaticlly. So on most models, the smaller dealer will be able to get them quickly.

 

Fleet- Fleet doesn't go through the allocation system. Fleet gets a percentage of the weeks production and schedules by order date so this eliminates any time differences between dealers and also allows them to sell to fleets without using a allocation that should go to a normal customer. Fleet unit sales don't count to earn allocation either.

 

4. Commodities- We usually get a list of controlled commodities on Wednesday these are the items that are not available (not Material hold, just overscheduled from past or supply issues, short term shortage, Material hold items Can't schedule, IE DVD is currently Material hold) and items that aren't going to be "Free demand". Free demand items are ones that you can get as many as you want, supply outdoes demand. Other items may have a restriction. Currently two-tone paint is a commodity. For example let me give a list of controls (not actual amounts, just for example based on things I've seen in the last few weeks.

 

Two tone paint (supercab/Regular cab) 30%

two tone paint (SuperCrew) 18%

total SuperCrew 35%

5.4L V-8 80%

 

 

Other items can also control, this is just an example (and items that I've seen on control already for the 04's). What this means is the % of the trucks scheduled that can have this option. That isn't an individual dealer thing, but all dealers in the region (controls are often regional, but usually most regions are the same). That means that if 1 dealer doesn't use his share another may get a higher percentage, or if another doesn't prioritize right, he may miss all the controls and get the free demand items only.

 

Now were ready to go to the complicated part, Scheduling.

 

5. Scheduling. Scheduling usually happens Thursday night (allocation happens Wed night and we get the results sometime Thursday). Basically its all done by computer (unless something like a priority 01 may be manually scheduled first to make sure it gets scheduled). It lines all the dealers (that have allocation) in some sort of random order. If there are no commodities, this is easy, first dealers unit scheduled, second dealers, third dealers, etc, Once all dealers first allocation has been scheduled they go to the next round and do the same for the dealers that have a second allocation, once everyone’s second is done they go those with a 3rd and so on. Now that’s in a perfect world where there aren't any commodities.

 

Here in the real world it works a little different. Commodities screw this all up. Right now most vehicles only have 1 or two commodities so it’s not as big of deal. At times there might be 10 different commodities that are all separate and different and can make things difficult.

 

If when scheduling gets to a dealers allocation, and his order has a commodity that has already run out, they skip him for that pass. He doesn't loose his allocation, it gets used in the next pass, but it can cost him in other commodities. Let me do an example. This is PURELY SAMPLE, not actual numbers.

 

Lets say Super Duty F-Series commodities

 

5% Crew Cab

30% Two tone

50% Power Stroke

25% V-10

 

now we're going to use Dealer A and dealer B. Lets say they both got 3 allocations.

 

Dealer A

F-250 V-10 Supercab with 2 tone priority 20

F-350 V-10 Regular cab with 2 tone priority 25

F-250 PowerStroke priority 30

 

Dealer B

F-250 V-10 Crew Cab priority 10

F-250 V-10 Crew Cab priorty 11

F-250 Supecab Two tone V-10 Priority 12

F-250 Regular cab PowerStroke priorty 13

F-250 Sueprcab 5.4L priority 17

F250 Regular cab 5.4L priority 18

F350 supercab 5.4L priority 20

 

OK now to schedule. Lets say dealer A is toward the beginning of scheduling and dealer B is at the end (supposed to be a random order, but someone has to be first and someone last, but the dealer has no say in this).

 

1. System looks at dealer a's first order, Commodities still available so it gets scheduled.

2. System gets do dealer b's first order and is out of Crew cabs before it gets there so dealer b doesn't get a unit scheduled

 

3. Dealer A's up again and gets his second scheduled as both are available.

4. Dealer B's second order is a crew cab again so nothing schedules again this pass

 

5. Dealer A's 3rd order is still OK so it also gets scheduled and uses up his final allocation.

6. Dealer B's 3rd order isn't a Crew cab, but after 2 and 1/2 passes 2 tone is exhausted so again nothing scheduled.

 

7. Dealer B's Power Stroke order doesn't schedule as they are used up in previous passes so he has yet to have a unit schedule.

8. Dealer B gets the next three units scheduled in the next three passes as the commodities ordered are still available (in this example).

 

So when its said and done Dealer A got 2 V-10's 1 Power Stroke, and 2 two tone orders where dealer B got nothing off of the control list. He gets his three units that he was allocated, but doesn't get any of the hard to get stuff due to the way his order bank was prioritized. This is why a dealer would want to put some of the moderately difficult items in the middle instead of all the hardest to get stuff at the first priority. If I had set up my order bank (in this example) I would have had a crew cab 1st and some a two tone second.

 

This example was a little extreme, but it shows how the system works.

 

This info doesn't really help you as a customer as there isn't much you can do to affect this, but I thought people would find it interesting on how the system works. With current commodities, there isn't a lot of risk because after the only major commodities (not holds) are two tone and SuperCrew so after they run out you can still get some decent vehicles. If you don't want something you can pass on your allocation, but many dealers will take slow moving trucks instead of passing on allocation. This can hurt worse though as now the system shows you with that truck in inventory so it can cost you future allocation (remember the turn and earn system). Sometimes vehicles are excluded to get dealers to take them. In years passed, V-6 F-150's were excluded and 6 speed diesels didn't count against you.

 

6. Other

 

Now that your unit is scheduled, here are some other points of interest.

 

Once scheduled some changes can be made. If an item is a commodity, it probably can't be added, but can be removed. Trim level (XLT, Lariat, etc) can't be change nor can body style (4x4, 4x2, Crew cab, Reg cab, etc). But color and options can be modified until the truck is locked in for production. If the change takes, you'll get a new DORA the next day. If not nothing happens.

 

After Locked in status the truck gets "Bucked" and will be produced very soon.

 

Next step is Produced. This means the truck is built but hasn't left the plant yet.

 

Rel from plant is next, self explanitiory

 

Then things change based on your location. It may be REL to convoy (truck), Rel to Rail (train) or it may have a long number like ttx198345, that is the rail car the truck is loaded on. There may be a space and then a 2 digit number after this. Thats the Ramp (rail yard where loaded and unloaded) where the train is at.

 

Arrived at ramp XX (the XX is a 2 digit number) this is again the place where loaded and unload, unfortunately I don't have a list of them. This means the truck has been unloaded from the train and is waiting truck shipment.

 

Next step truck arrives at dealer!"

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Farmboy, I'm in the same boat as you, and ordered on the same day, apparently. I also got my order # and dealer # etc, and I'm thinking if it wasn't officially ordered, SVT would not show it as in process. I also asked if there were any incompatibilities or problems with my order, and they said no it was fine.

 

If you look at many of the posts on this thread, there are folks who have waited almost 3 months for the first status change. Of course, there are those who beat the odds, but it looks as if we should maybe figure closer to 11 weeks before we see a VIN or any scheduling activity. That's just an estimate, and the other thing that makes it difficult to guage is that many people "pre-ordered", so during that time when no cars were being built, it makes sense that their wait would be longer. Now that a steady flow of cars are being built, I would estimate that in the next 4 weeks or less, our orders should break loose.

 

Yeah, thanks for this! I've actually read this before. It is a good write-up. Are you sure yours is really "ordered" and in the system? SVT and Ford Customer service both acknowledge my order and say there are no errors or issues. They show it as order processing - unscheduled.

 

Unless something pops up at a dealership that matches what I ordered, I will just sit and wait. They have to build it at some point I guess. Hopefully it'll schedule in the next month or so....

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I was able to find the Sales Operation Manager (the guy who manages all the zone reps for a particular region). My dealer is "in between" zone reps right now, so he's been unable to tell me anything about my order or give me an ETA.

 

Well I sent an email to the Sales Operations guy, and in 5 minutes got my ETA. He said my car will get scheduled in July, and will have an August build. Because there are sometimes production delays, my build might get pushed to September. But he said it would initially be a date in August.

 

He also said scheduling this week will be the last of the July builds. So starting next Friday (7/13), they will start scheduling the August builds.

 

So it sounds like I'll see my car sometime in September.

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Farmboy - can you hook me up with his info, so that I can ask him about mine? I'm just dying for an update :worship:

 

 

I gather he only knows about his area which is called the Twin Cities region. He mentioned that it covered 136 dealerships or something. Can you tell me what region you are in? Rather than post his info here, maybe I can help you offline....

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Here you go dude. This is the Sales Ops Manager for your area. PLEASE post what she says so that I can celebrate alongside you. :) I think if you email her your order number and the dealership, she will be able to tell you your build month.

 

(REMOVED the email since I sent it to PalaceKeeper)

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A note of caution. I emailed the sales ops manager, and my questions trickled down to the dealer, and I think she had the impression that the dealer was not being responsive to me. I sent her a follow up email to make sure that she knew that the dealer has been great, and that I was simply trying to dig for more information.

Unfortunately, I did not get any more details out of this exercise, and temporarily at least, pissed some people off. I guess I need to go back to being patient! :lurk:

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Well, she did answer, but not with any details about timing, unfortunately. Here was her response:

 

 

"Until the order is actually scheduled, not much more detail I can provide. The biggest hurdle is that piece of the process – I know you mentioned you were 3 of 8, most of our dealers are still working on the first. We in the field and the dealers, certainly wish we could get a few more rolling, but we are at the mercy of manufacturing and plant constraints. I will keep an eye out for you, as soon as more information shakes loose, I’ll be in touch! I’m sure your salesperson will too!!

 

Thank you for your passion for Mustang and the GT500 – we appreciate you!!! Feel free to reach out anytime, I’ll do my best to get you a quick answer whether it is on your GT or anything else Ford! J

 

Thanks for contacting me and stay in touch!"

 

So, I guess you got lucky, Farmboy - I got the "canned" answer :shrug:

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They absolutely know the quarter and perhaps even the month. She should be able to tell you that much.

 

Sorry to hear you couldn't learn any more from her. :( Maybe I did get lucky. My guy was super helpful. What options are you looking for on your car? Maybe if I hear of one heading to a dealership, I can ping you the details. You can also call Ford Customer Service. I call once a week. I have them run a nationwide query of the options I want. So far, after two months of doing this, apparently Ford hasn't built even one shelby that matches my specs. I keep trying and hoping though. :)

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They absolutely know the quarter and perhaps even the month. She should be able to tell you that much.

 

Sorry to hear you couldn't learn any more from her. :( Maybe I did get lucky. My guy was super helpful. What options are you looking for on your car? Maybe if I hear of one heading to a dealership, I can ping you the details. You can also call Ford Customer Service. I call once a week. I have them run a nationwide query of the options I want. So far, after two months of doing this, apparently Ford hasn't built even one shelby that matches my specs. I keep trying and hoping though. :)

 

 

What were your specs? jw

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