Type of oil?

[Alloy Dave]

Dave thats up to you, but simply stated, the "5" relates to the viscosity @ ambient temperture (normally 100 F), the "W" stands for Winter, meaning the oil is suitable for winter use, and the 50 is viscosity of the oil at the second test temperture (normally 212 F) and I live in Tucson AZ

 

Joe

sicilian, I'm fully aware that the W means winter.

 

Actually I think you made a typo regarding the normal test temperature you mention. The "W" tests are not run at 100F...the test to which you are alluding is actually run at 100C...which is 212F. This is only one of the 3 tests that are run on the "W" oil side of things. The three tests are to evaluate three different characteristics.

 

1) Minimum viscosity at 100C (212F) at varying temperatures depending upon the weight of the oil...they are NOT run at 100F. This is likely the test you were referring to...and perhaps it was just a typo that you said F instead of C. IMO, this is the least important of the tests since the non-W attributes of the oil take over at this high of a temperature.

 

2) W oils are also evaluated for cold pumping ability at a given temp. THe temp at which they are evaluated varies depending on the viscosity. For example, a 10W has it's cold pumping ability tested at -30C, whereas a 15W is tested at -25C.

 

3) Lastly, W oils are evaluated for cold cranking at a different temp...and this too varies by viscosity. For example, a 10W is evaluated on this test at -25C, whereas a 15W is tested at -20C.

 

Note that in items 2 and 3 above, the cold PUMPING tests are always done at a temperature that's 5 degrees C lower than the cold CRANKING. THis is to ensure that if a car will START on a given oil....that oil will also be able to be pumped throughout the engine to lubricate properly.

 

Now if you want to talk about the non-W aspect of a multi-vis oil...that's a different story and they actually measure two ADDITIONAL different things on that part of the oil. Kinematic viscosity is measured at two temps...40C and 100C. HTHS (High Temp High Shear) is measured at 150C. Since you mention a 212F temp test...it's likely you were referring to the higher setting on the kinematic viscosity test...but you failed to mention the other two.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dave

[Son of GT]

Son,

 

The comment you made that I highlighted in blue is, IMO, the most important factor. If I lived in Minnesota and drove the car year round...I'd use 5W-50. I don't, and I won't.

 

Dave

Yes, of course Dave, you are absolutely, 100% correct.

[68fastback]

Some interesting reading on this...

 

The Amsoil site

 

...and these articles at MotorWorld.com are well written, imo.

 

-Dan

[2008 Shelby]

Dave (and others),

You're not the minority. I have been running 15w50 since my first oil change too. As I have mentioned here before, I swear by Royal Purple and recommend it to all.

 

K&N 2010 Filter and 15w50 Royal Purple. That's what I use.

 

BTW for those who may not be exactly sure, the manual only calls for 6.5 quarts of oil NOT 7 quarts that I have read some dealers put into some of the owners cars here.

 

I thought you were running XPR 10w40 RP. Did you switch?

[jcthorne]

thorne, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one...that's ok.

 

I disagree with some of your statements. Please don't scare people by making statements indicating that what I'm doing is dangerous to my car.

 

1) The 15W-50 will NOT overpressure the timing chain adjusters or any other parts. The ONLY reason 5W is specified is so people can drive the car at low temps. Since I don't start mine in low temps...mine will never see the pressures that many others' cars will see.

 

2) Concerning your statement that 5W will get to bearings faster...then why don't you use an even thinner Multi-vis? I think what's more important than how FAST the oil gets there is the protection it gives when it DOES get there. Since the 5W is for colder temps...I'll bet you that my 15W oil will get to my bearings at 50 degrees ambient just as fast as your 5W oil will get to yours at 30 degrees ambient.

 

3) This is not a net lose proposition...this is called adjusting the maintenance on your car to the use of your car. Just like using higher octane with a 93 tune, or changing your oil more frequently if you live on a dusty road, etc.

 

Dave

 

A 5W-50 oil at 50deg F will flow better and faster than a 15W-50 also at 50degF. At cold startup, at 50degF the 5W-50 is indeed better for your engine. At operating temps in the 200deg range, these two oils will be nearly the same.

 

A wide temperature range for conventional oils was indeed a problem in years past as the viscosity index improvers would indeed break down due to shear. This is simply not a problem for synthetic oils for this small a range today. A properly designed 5W-50 synthetic will last just as long or perhaps longer than a properly designed 15W-50.

 

Use what you wish in your car, just please do not profess to know more about oils and their applications than the engineers that designed your engine. The thinner 5w-20 oils used in Ford's mainstream autos is indeed all about fuel economy, the 5W-50 speced for the GT500 and Ford GT is about protection and proper lubrication at cold startup and full stress operation. I was not intending to come off as some sort of lubrication expert here. Yes, I am only repeating what I have been told by folks within the industry directly connected to the DOHC modular engine program and the API lubrication committee member here in our office. Just trying to explain to others here why there are reasons for the recomendation in the owners manual and how they were arrived at.

 

In the 90s there were indeed quite a number of modular engine failures do to the substitution of 10-30 and 15-50 in ohc engines speced for 5w-30.

 

I too am not all that favorable to Castrol oil but will use it for the time being until the other producers catch up with the need.

[sicilianjg]

sicilian, I'm fully aware that the W means winter.

 

Actually I think you made a typo regarding the normal test temperature you mention. The "W" tests are not run at 100F...the test to which you are alluding is actually run at 100C...which is 212F. This is only one of the 3 tests that are run on the "W" oil side of things. The three tests are to evaluate three different characteristics.

 

1) Minimum viscosity at 100C (212F) at varying temperatures depending upon the weight of the oil...they are NOT run at 100F. This is likely the test you were referring to...and perhaps it was just a typo that you said F instead of C. IMO, this is the least important of the tests since the non-W attributes of the oil take over at this high of a temperature.

 

2) W oils are also evaluated for cold pumping ability at a given temp. THe temp at which they are evaluated varies depending on the viscosity. For example, a 10W has it's cold pumping ability tested at -30C, whereas a 15W is tested at -25C.

 

3) Lastly, W oils are evaluated for cold cranking at a different temp...and this too varies by viscosity. For example, a 10W is evaluated on this test at -25C, whereas a 15W is tested at -20C.

 

Note that in items 2 and 3 above, the cold PUMPING tests are always done at a temperature that's 5 degrees C lower than the cold CRANKING. THis is to ensure that if a car will START on a given oil....that oil will also be able to be pumped throughout the engine to lubricate properly.

 

Now if you want to talk about the non-W aspect of a multi-vis oil...that's a different story and they actually measure two ADDITIONAL different things on that part of the oil. Kinematic viscosity is measured at two temps...40C and 100C. HTHS (High Temp High Shear) is measured at 150C. Since you mention a 212F temp test...it's likely you were referring to the higher setting on the kinematic viscosity test...but you failed to mention the other two.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dave

 

Dave your right! I did have some typo mistakes I guess when I was in the Marines they did not teach us how to write. The point I just want to make without alot words is when the engine is cold, the oil acts like a 5 weight and flows easily. As the temperture increases, the oil thinkens and acts like a a 50 weight and living in Arizona we get 100+ tempertures in the summer. I just was trying to keep things simple because alot people don't know much about motor oil. Thanks for the added info

 

Joe

[Ron]

Thats the thing, to me mobile 1 is superior. I've run it in everything and its great. But they don't offer the 5w, just the 15w. I live 15 miles from new orleans. The car is garage kept and cold is not a problem even if it wasn't.

Thx for all the replies but still haven't decided lol

 

 

Mobil I is available in 5w-50. I have two cases in my shop right now. I think it is more common in Canada but my local auto parts (Mobile dealer) ordered it for me and had it in less than a week. Comes in 6 can cases.

[Alloy Dave]

Use what you wish in your car, just please do not profess to know more about oils and their applications than the engineers that designed your engine.

I did not (and do not) profess to know more about oils than they do. I DO, however, profess to know more about HOW MY CAR IS OPERATED/USED than they do.

 

Dave

[Alloy Dave]

Dave your right! I did have some typo mistakes I guess when I was in the Marines they did not teach us how to write. The point I just want to make without alot words is when the engine is cold, the oil acts like a 5 weight and flows easily. As the temperture increases, the oil thinkens and acts like a a 50 weight and living in Arizona we get 100+ tempertures in the summer. I just was trying to keep things simple because alot people don't know much about motor oil. Thanks for the added info

 

Joe

Thanks Joe...now I know your first name and can stop calling you sicilian . Good luck in that heat...I'd hate it in the summer, but I'd love it there in winter.

 

Dave

[Grunnsetning]

Mobil I is available in 5w-50. I have two cases in my shop right now. I think it is more common in Canada but my local auto parts (Mobile dealer) ordered it for me and had it in less than a week. Comes in 6 can cases.

 

You're right they do, I just called them and said they make it but it's not available over the counter.

He said to try a mercedes dealership and ask they'd sell it.

[68fastback]

Mobil I is available in 5w-50. I have two cases in my shop right now. I think it is more common in Canada but my local auto parts (Mobile dealer) ordered it for me and had it in less than a week. Comes in 6 can cases.

 

Hey, Ron WELCOME to SU!!!

 

I had to rub my eyes <lol> You've been a member since 8/05 -- member #100 -- and just put up your furst post! You get the lurker of the decade award, my friend ;-)

 

Have fun!!

 

-Dan

[Joe G]

I had to rub my eyes <lol> You've been a member since 8/05 -- member #100 -- and just put up your furst post! You get the lurker of the decade award, my friend ;-)

Yeah, at that rate he'll NEVER catch Grabber or poop dog!!

[68fastback]

Yeah, at that rate he'll NEVER catch Grabber or poop dog!!

 

 

....and the understatement of the decade award

[Ron]

Hey, Ron WELCOME to SU!!!

 

I had to rub my eyes <lol> You've been a member since 8/05 -- member #100 -- and just put up your furst post! You get the lurker of the decade award, my friend ;-)

 

Have fun!!

 

-Dan

 

Thanks for the welcome! Put my deposit down on 3/05, SU member since 8/05 and I have been here every day since. Boy, have I learned a lot here!!! My GT500 arrived on 10/26/06. Thought my info on Mobil 1 oil would be helpful. I'll go back to my room now (LOL) but I will be watching.

[68fastback]

Thanks for the welcome! Put my deposit down on 3/05, SU member since 8/05 and I have been here every day since. Boy, have I learned a lot here!!! My GT500 arrived on 10/26/06. Thought my info on Mobil 1 oil would be helpful. I'll go back to my room now (LOL) but I will be watching.

 

Aw, come on, Ron, was it somethin' we said? <lol>

 

Hope you come back more often ...enjoy her! ;-)

[svtkeith]

My interp or Ron. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: . Welcome bud.

[Blue Oval]

You're right they do, I just called them and said they make it but it's not available over the counter.

He said to try a mercedes dealership and ask they'd sell it.

After reading your post, I called a Mercedes dealer today. They told me that they have Mobil 1 5w-40.

 

Does anybody know if Mobil one is the A & B spec?

[68fastback]

Here's another forum discussion on 5W50 (and 5W60!) motor oil. A bit inscrutable tho...

 

:o

 

fwiw, this is the link to Motorcraft's listing of the 5W50

 

.

[Ron]

After reading your post, I called a Mercedes dealer today. They told me that they have Mobil 1 5w-40.

 

Does anybody know if Mobil one is the A & B spec?

 

 

I have checked my Mobil 1, 5w-50 oil. It is API service rated SM, the highest current rating. I think this 5w-50 oil is made for sale outside the USA. The approved applications on the back of the container all relate to foriegn auto requirements: ACEA A3/B3/B4 etc. etc. These specs are all the highest ratings for high performance applications. I will call Mobil tomorrow and my guess will be that this oil meets all of the Big Three requirements for 5w-50 applications. Sure would be nice to hear it from Ford though since Mobil 1 is a popular synthetic. Any input from our dealer friends?

[68fastback]

I have checked my Mobil 1, 5w-50 oil. It is API service rated SM, the highest current rating. I think this 5w-50 oil is made for sale outside the USA. The approved applications on the back of the container all relate to foriegn auto requirements: ACEA A3/B3/B4 etc. etc. These specs are all the highest ratings for high performance applications. I will call Mobil tomorrow and my guess will be that this oil meets all of the Big Three requirements for 5w-50 applications. Sure would be nice to hear it from Ford though since Mobil 1 is a popular synthetic. Any input from our dealer friends?

 

Ron, welcome to SU!!

 

You might want to ask them if it meets the actual Ford-designed specification: WSS-M2C931-B (link in my post above). An oil can meet API-SM and ILSAC-GF4, but not the full Ford spec (which likely includes specific hot-shear and viscocity requirements for cam-lobe wear similar to some of the Japanese specs (can't remember their designation). Notice in the Philips 5W50 spec in the document below, how different even the 40*C cold viscocity is between the two 5W synthetic oils (5W30 and 5W50).

 

Check this Conoco-Phillips specs for their 5W50 which they claim does specifically meet the Ford WSS-M2C931-B spec. Also, I was told by a Ford rep that the -A spec (Castrol Syntec 5W50) is essentially the same spec, just developed earlier for the Ford GT (I can't vouch for that info tho I suspect he's correct).

 

-Dan

[Ron]

Ron, welcome to SU!!

 

You might want to ask them if it meets the actual Ford-designed specification: WSS-M2C931-B (link in my post above). An oil can meet API-SM and ILSAC-GF4, but not the full Ford spec (which likely includes specific hot-shear and viscocity requirements for cam-lobe wear similar to some of the Japanese specs (can't remember their designation). Notice in the Philips 5W50 spec in the document below, how different even the 40*C cold viscocity is between the two 5W synthetic oils (5W30 and 5W50).

 

Check this Conoco-Phillips specs for their 5W50 which they claim does specifically meet the Ford WSS-M2C931-B spec. Also, I was told by a Ford rep that the -A spec (Castrol Syntec 5W50) is essentially the same spec, just developed earlier for the Ford GT (I can't vouch for that info tho I suspect he's correct).

 

-Dan

 

 

Spoke with a tech from Mobil Oil today. They were not aware of any American auto that used 5w-50 synthetic oil. Seems like the Mobil 1 5w-50 was never submitted to Ford for testing because there was no Ford application. I told them that there would be 14,000-18,000 GT500's on the road in the next couple of years. I,m not sure whose move it is, Ford or Mobil but I hope they work this out. I also have my dealer trying to find out if the Mobil oil will meet the requirements of the warranty. When I hear more I will post it here

 

Ron

[Grunnsetning]

Spoke with a tech from Mobil Oil today. They were not aware of any American auto that used 5w-50 synthetic oil. Seems like the Mobil 1 5w-50 was never submitted to Ford for testing because there was no Ford application. I told them that there would be 14,000-18,000 GT500's on the road in the next couple of years. I,m not sure whose move it is, Ford or Mobil but I hope they work this out. I also have my dealer trying to find out if the Mobil oil will meet the requirements of the warranty. When I hear more I will post it here

 

Ron

I went ahead and changed it today. It had 700 miles, figured it couldn't hurt.

Just got some motorcraft for now. Hopefully Mobile1 will get thier stuff straight.

[68fastback]

Spoke with a tech from Mobil Oil today. They were not aware of any American auto that used 5w-50 synthetic oil. Seems like the Mobil 1 5w-50 was never submitted to Ford for testing because there was no Ford application. I told them that there would be 14,000-18,000 GT500's on the road in the next couple of years. I,m not sure whose move it is, Ford or Mobil but I hope they work this out. I also have my dealer trying to find out if the Mobil oil will meet the requirements of the warranty. When I hear more I will post it here

 

Ron

 

Ford created the spec, oil company would develop an oil that meets the spec (if they choose to), do the testing and certify (or get lab testing certifications -- dunno the process) that it meets the spec. Mobil-1's a great product, but I personally don't think it's in the same class as some of the racing oils (grade for grade, of course) -- unfortunately there is no 5W50 racing oil but that's likely just because no one would ever run a 5W oil in a race car because the 5W gives up too much shear-breakdown resistance for cold-flow -- not a concern in a race car that is not driven in cold climates or with a warmup. Mobil-1 is just a good synthetic product.

 

Synthetic is a misnomer anyway -- it's made from the same dinosaur stuff as regular oil, just made from more expensively refined and blended high-quality ultra low-ash low-sulfur base-stocks and modifiers. I don't know much about the actual chemical processes involved in turning dino oil into synthetic base stocks but it does produce a superior oil that is better able to resist heat (low-sulfur) and shear breakdown and minimizes wear (low-ash). I'm sure I'm over simplifying but you can bet Royal Purple or Red Line 15W50 racing synthetic, for example, is a superior product to Mobil-1 15W50 -- it also costs 2-3x as much.

 

There used to be a fellow in here -- DVS2XS (Dwayne?) -- who is knowledgeable on oil and explained some of this to me some time ago in a couple of PMs, but I haven't seen him around in quite some time.

 

Ron, the Mobil person is blowing smoke about submiting oil to Ford for testing, imo -- it just doesn't work that way from the little I know. The burden is on the oil company to comply with the spec if they choose to market an oil for those cars that require that spec. Maybe what they meant is that they decided the market was too small for the development/testing that would be required...dunno. The Z06 Vettes also spec 5W50, possibly C6 and others too.

 

-Dan

[Jesse_Bolt]

 

JB

[68fastback]

 

JB

 

That's probably what I'd be using (I like Castrol) but it meets the older -A spec (Ford GT?), still fine for the GT500 from what I was told. The Conoco-Phillips 5W50 is the only one I know of, besides Motorcraft, that states it meets the Ford WSS-M2C931-B spec of the GT500.

[2008 Shelby]

Why would you folks switch to 15w-50. At operating temps these are the same viscocity range oils but at cold startup they are very different. The 5w-50 will flow to the cams and bearings faster at startup. Also the 15w-50 can easily overpressure the timing chain adjusters and place a large load on the front cam bearing due to high oil pressures at first startup unitl the 15w oil thins down at temp. I do not see the benifit of making this change at all and quite the detriment. Other than cost or favorite brand issues, this is a net loose proposition.

 

Call Castrol and they will let you know the 5W-50 currently being sold meets the revised Ford spec, just the bottle printing/labels have not yet been updated. The revision was very minor, something to do with an API reference.

 

-A spec = API SL oil

 

-B spec = API SM oil

[2008 Shelby]

Follow this link to more information on Royal Purple...

 

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/forums/inde...58&hl=10w40

[2008 Shelby]

Dave (and others),

You're not the minority. I have been running 15w50 since my first oil change too. As I have mentioned here before, I swear by Royal Purple and recommend it to all.

 

K&N 2010 Filter and 15w50 Royal Purple. That's what I use.

 

BTW for those who may not be exactly sure, the manual only calls for 6.5 quarts of oil NOT 7 quarts that I have read some dealers put into some of the owners cars here.

 

 

Did you mean XPR 10w40 Royal Purple?

[Super Snake]

Did you mean XPR 10w40 Royal Purple?

 

I went with the Royal Purple 5W50 and K&N HP-2010 filter

[2008 Shelby]

I went with the Royal Purple 5W50 and K&N HP-2010 filter

 

5w50 Royal Purple? Are you sure about this? I have not seen this for sale or on their website. In fact, I believe in the reply from RP they stated that they do not like the wide visc spread of a 5w50.