Burning Blue Star IV Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 Come on guys. It was taken in for warranty work for an overheating issue. It's not out of line for it to go through a short test drive to verify the issue is resolved. I agree with TX STIG. I wouldn't be upset about having a few extra miles on it. Gotta have it out to verify everything is working properly. If they don't, you might be calling another tow truck to get your car again, before you even get home. I would want them to make sure it was fixed and there were not multiple issues contributing to the problem in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2011 P8J Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 The same monkeys from another mother built your car. You should consider fixing it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFreak Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 Guys, I thought about this a million times. I had the idea of creating a "service" tune with my SCT X3 where the RPM limits at say 3000 and the speed is limited to 40mph. Anyone else doing this? DaFreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpevin Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 Guys, I thought about this a million times. I had the idea of creating a "service" tune with my SCT X3 where the RPM limits at say 3000 and the speed is limited to 40mph. Anyone else doing this? DaFreak Then they will void your powertrain warranty for having a tune lol. Or even worse they may try to fix it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFreak Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 Then they will void your powertrain warranty for having a tune lol. Or even worse they may try to fix it.. haha! Good point. Maybe not such a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolWhip Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 It would be really cool if the valet mode in the Sync system could lock the RPM limit at like 3500. That way they can still drive it conservatively and appropriately without having the ability to beat its balls in. I'd be more worried about some knucklehead that doesn't normally drive a fast cat, losing it and tearing something up. I do all of my own work on my cars, but obviously if I have an issue that can be fixed under warranty for free, I'd much rather bring it to Ford. I think ultimately you need to find a dealer that has a service manager you can trust. I know that the dealer that sold me my 500 treats me like a king every time I walk in the door. Even the body shop manager was super nice to me. I wouldn't mind, in fact I'd encourage the technician to drive the car to ensure that the repairs were done properly and successfully. I surely don't want to have to bring it back or leave it another day simply because the tech wasn't permitted to test drive my car. At the same time, I don't want anyone but me beating on it and you know that t's just about impossible to not tear into it if you don't drive one yourself. More important to me though, is that the car is stored indoors and is not test driven in poor weather. I schedule any and all service when I know the weather is going to be nice and I also request that the service manager does not schedule me until he knows he'll have room to store the car for the time it takes to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springer Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 The same monkeys from another mother built your car. You should consider fixing it yourself. Maybe you could show me how. I've never figured out out to fix a block where four rods sheered in half separated from the pistons and two went through the block. Although I don't have a pic to post here, it looks like a grenade went off inside the engine. It does have good scrap value though, aluminum is getting rather expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolWhip Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 Oh that's about the easiest fix there is dude, it's called crate engine.... Either that or forged fun in the garage for a few days while you build your own. I'll show you how, you can follow the 4 step new engine process as outlined below. I've used it many times and it always works great! Step 1: get new engine block Step 2: put some of these in the big holes in the new block from step 1 Step 3: put other stuff on Step 4: Put engine back in car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsarkis Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 If you have mods & during the tech's joy ride something happens = your screwed. If it's something Small, like scraped rim, scratch on the car, smoking in the car, burn in the seat etc. = your screwed (try to prove it). Something big happens with no mods = loss of time in warranty. I have heard too many horror stories from my friends of things that happened on a 5 mile "test drive". Would I care if they took out my truck, any type of sedan etc, hell no. Do I care about 500+hp car that's about new, hell Yes. They can drive it when I'm in it with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springer Posted July 2, 2010 Report Share Posted July 2, 2010 Oh that's about the easiest fix there is dude, it's called crate engine.... Either that or forged fun in the garage for a few days while you build your own. I'll show you how, you can follow the 4 step new engine process as outlined below. I've used it many times and it always works great! Step 1: get new engine block Step 2: put some of these in the big holes in the new block from step 1 Step 3: put other stuff on Step 4: Put engine back in car Nice tutorial "whip." In my case, warranty work is on "them," not me. It's been a decade or so since I've had to remove and overhaul an engine. Hopefully, that will be my last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transformer Guy Posted June 11, 2011 Report Share Posted June 11, 2011 The same monkeys from another mother built your car. You should consider fixing it yourself. Well said!!! Being a technician for Audi, even when I have to work on the V10 R8's or any car, I never rip it hard unless the customer complains about an issue during heavy acceleration. Especially with bleeding air pockets out of the cooling system, a test drive is mandatory to make sure the vehicle doesnt overheat. Even with the vacuum coolant system refillers theres still a chance that air is still in the system. I dont know how your radiator cap blew off from the thermostat sticking closed. Im sure you would have seen the needle in the max zone before you started to see smoke. Sounds more like it was not tightened from the factory. You have to remember that most vehicles come with the proper amount of fluids right from the factory. Yes, its our responsiblity as techs to check everything but when we visibly see the reservoirs already full we assume that the caps would be on properly from the factory. We are all human and skip steps to speed up process when we can. Also please remember that eventhough the dealership charges $200 for the PDI, it doesnt mean the tech sees anywhere near that much on his pay. For every $100 dealer labour rate you see posted on the wall, the tech gets maybe $25 of it depending on the dealership. With that being said, techs are paid flat rate and the time paid for PDI inspections are usually not in thier favour. If anyone is to blame, its the dealerships that pushes thier techs to produce superhuman labour productivity with short time frames and promised times. Im sure other techs will know where im comming from. On a side note, when the customer says "no test drive", in my opinion he/she is saying dont fix my car properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Well said!!! Being a technician for Audi, even when I have to work on the V10 R8's or any car, I never rip it hard unless the customer complains about an issue during heavy acceleration. Especially with bleeding air pockets out of the cooling system, a test drive is mandatory to make sure the vehicle doesn't overheat. Even with the vacuum coolant system refillers there's still a chance that air is still in the system. I dont know how your radiator cap blew off from the thermostat sticking closed. I'm sure you would have seen the needle in the max zone before you started to see smoke. Sounds more like it was not tightened from the factory. You have to remember that most vehicles come with the proper amount of fluids right from the factory. Yes, its our responsiblity as techs to check everything but when we visibly see the reservoirs already full we assume that the caps would be on properly from the factory. We are all human and skip steps to speed up process when we can. Also please remember that even though the dealership charges $200 for the PDI, it doesnt mean the tech sees anywhere near that much on his pay. For every $100 dealer labour rate you see posted on the wall, the tech gets maybe $25 of it depending on the dealership. With that being said, techs are paid flat rate and the time paid for PDI inspections are usually not in thier favour. If anyone is to blame, it's the dealerships that pushes thier techs to produce superhuman labour productivity with short time frames and promised times. I'm sure other techs will know where im coming from. On a side note, when the customer says "no test drive", in my opinion he/she is saying dont fix my car properly. From one professional Tech to another, I can not agree more. 12 miles to test drive a overheating engine is easily within the acceptable range of miles put on the car. Maybe even on the short side. The job would not be complete without a FULL test drive just to insure that the problem was resolved. If the Tech had not test drivin the car and the customer had it overheat before they even got home, the Tech's ass would be on the line (from the customers standpoint AND the Service Mgr.'s standpoint!). This is kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. You (the customer) MUST allow your car to be road tested. If you can't trust your Dealer/Tech enough to let them drive your car, I suggest you either perform your own repairs or find a Dealer/Tech that you DO trust to drive your car. There HAS to be some level of trust givin to the Dealer Tech or you are not allowing them to perform their job properly. And asking to go along on a road test (test drive) is NOT going to happen just from a liability stand-point. If someone runs a red light and T-bones the car with the Tech at the wheel and you get hurt...well, you and I both know that 99% of the people out there will be at or calling a Lawyers office before they even get to the ER! And yes, "Flat-rate" labor is a big part of the problem. The National (US) average for a experienced Tech is 135% productivity. Each Techs productivity is monitored by the Service Mgr. for multiple reasons. One, for weeding out the slow guys and two, for determining their pay/salary. If a Tech is turning 80% s/he will be looked at to see why (a rash of low paying jobs or a slow Tech?). I know good Techs that turn ~200% and they get paid well. They also rarely have "comebacks" which is a real good indication of how good or bad they are. A Tech turning 200% of flat-rate but with a 50% comeback rate means s/he is working too fast and not doing the job right. On the other hand a Tech turning 100% of flat-rate with 0 comebacks is working a little too slow. But which one do you think is going to last longer? The 200% w/50% returns Tech or the 100% w/0% returns? Realize that they are BOTH equal as far as productivity is concerened but the 200% Tech just pissed off half of his customers (which reflects DIRECTLY on the dealership, not the Tech) because they had to bring their car back to get the same problem fixed, AGAIN! As far as PDI's are concerned: I worked at a Oldsmobile dealership when I was first starting out in the business. We had a dedicated PDI Tech (as opposed to PDI's being shared amongst all of the Techs like it is today) and his work was *flawless*. He had a checklist that he had to go down and if a item was out of parameter, he FIXED it. I don't know if it's still applicable today but back then body seams (doors, fenders, hoods and trunks) were part of the PDI. If a door seam was off a little, he adjusted the door, or fender, or hood, or trunk or...whatever didn't match. I don't know if he was on flat-rate or hourly but it took him considerably longer than 1 hour to do (which is the typical PDI flat-rate pay today). A PDI wasn't just a "fluid check" like so many of the PDI's I've seen performed lately by Dealerships. It was a PRE DELIVERY INSPECTION, from bumper to bumper and road to roof-top. When Bob Taylor (that was his name) was done with a PDI, you could bet money that the car was PERFECT. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the same in today's "flat-rate" market. And to be more than honest with you I've seen more than just a couple of new vehicles come right from the factory with empty oil pans, transmission cases or axle housings! It seems like today, a PDI is more to insure that the factory robots didn't miss a step, not to make the vehicle "right' for the customer. A hood doesn't match? Wait until the customer who bought the car complains and fix it under warranty....THAT seems to be the mentality of today's new car market. Sad but true, Phill Pollard - GM & ASE Certified Master Tech, Emeritus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezareth Posted June 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Well said!!! Being a technician for Audi, even when I have to work on the V10 R8's or any car, I never rip it hard unless the customer complains about an issue during heavy acceleration. Especially with bleeding air pockets out of the cooling system, a test drive is mandatory to make sure the vehicle doesnt overheat. Even with the vacuum coolant system refillers theres still a chance that air is still in the system. I dont know how your radiator cap blew off from the thermostat sticking closed. Im sure you would have seen the needle in the max zone before you started to see smoke. Sounds more like it was not tightened from the factory. You have to remember that most vehicles come with the proper amount of fluids right from the factory. Yes, its our responsiblity as techs to check everything but when we visibly see the reservoirs already full we assume that the caps would be on properly from the factory. We are all human and skip steps to speed up process when we can. Also please remember that eventhough the dealership charges $200 for the PDI, it doesnt mean the tech sees anywhere near that much on his pay. For every $100 dealer labour rate you see posted on the wall, the tech gets maybe $25 of it depending on the dealership. With that being said, techs are paid flat rate and the time paid for PDI inspections are usually not in thier favour. If anyone is to blame, its the dealerships that pushes thier techs to produce superhuman labour productivity with short time frames and promised times. Im sure other techs will know where im comming from. On a side note, when the customer says "no test drive", in my opinion he/she is saying dont fix my car properly. Well going off memory since this thread was ressurected from a year ago but the thermostat was working initially. Not sure how the coolant shot out past the cap other than the cap was probably defective. They did end up replacing it as when I tried to tighten it it felt like it had too much "give" in it. Thinking back on it I suppose 12 miles was acceptable, and I do trust the dealership since I've brought it back for work since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transformer Guy Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 From one professional Tech to another, I can not agree more. 12 miles to test drive a overheating engine is easily within the acceptable range of miles put on the car. Maybe even on the short side. The job would not be complete without a FULL test drive just to insure that the problem was resolved. If the Tech had not test drivin the car and the customer had it overheat before they even got home, the Tech's ass would be on the line (from the customers standpoint AND the Service Mgr.'s standpoint!). This is kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. You (the customer) MUST allow your car to be road tested. If you can't trust your Dealer/Tech enough to let them drive your car, I suggest you either perform your own repairs or find a Dealer/Tech that you DO trust to drive your car. There HAS to be some level of trust givin to the Dealer Tech or you are not allowing them to perform their job properly. And asking to go along on a road test (test drive) is NOT going to happen just from a liability stand-point. If someone runs a red light and T-bones the car with the Tech at the wheel and you get hurt...well, you and I both know that 99% of the people out there will be at or calling a Lawyers office before they even get to the ER! And yes, "Flat-rate" labor is a big part of the problem. The National (US) average for a experienced Tech is 135% productivity. Each Techs productivity is monitored by the Service Mgr. for multiple reasons. One, for weeding out the slow guys and two, for determining their pay/salary. If a Tech is turning 80% s/he will be looked at to see why (a rash of low paying jobs or a slow Tech?). I know good Techs that turn ~200% and they get paid well. They also rarely have "comebacks" which is a real good indication of how good or bad they are. A Tech turning 200% of flat-rate but with a 50% comeback rate means s/he is working too fast and not doing the job right. On the other hand a Tech turning 100% of flat-rate with 0 comebacks is working a little too slow. But which one do you think is going to last longer? The 200% w/50% returns Tech or the 100% w/0% returns? Realize that they are BOTH equal as far as productivity is concerened but the 200% Tech just pissed off half of his customers (which reflects DIRECTLY on the dealership, not the Tech) because they had to bring their car back to get the same problem fixed, AGAIN! As far as PDI's are concerned: I worked at a Oldsmobile dealership when I was first starting out in the business. We had a dedicated PDI Tech (as opposed to PDI's being shared amongst all of the Techs like it is today) and his work was *flawless*. He had a checklist that he had to go down and if a item was out of parameter, he FIXED it. I don't know if it's still applicable today but back then body seams (doors, fenders, hoods and trunks) were part of the PDI. If a door seam was off a little, he adjusted the door, or fender, or hood, or trunk or...whatever didn't match. I don't know if he was on flat-rate or hourly but it took him considerably longer than 1 hour to do (which is the typical PDI flat-rate pay today). A PDI wasn't just a "fluid check" like so many of the PDI's I've seen performed lately by Dealerships. It was a PRE DELIVERY INSPECTION, from bumper to bumper and road to roof-top. When Bob Taylor (that was his name) was done with a PDI, you could bet money that the car was PERFECT. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the same in today's "flat-rate" market. And to be more than honest with you I've seen more than just a couple of new vehicles come right from the factory with empty oil pans, transmission cases or axle housings! It seems like today, a PDI is more to insure that the factory robots didn't miss a step, not to make the vehicle "right' for the customer. A hood doesn't match? Wait until the customer who bought the car complains and fix it under warranty....THAT seems to be the mentality of today's new car market. Sad but true, Phill Pollard - GM & ASE Certified Master Tech, Emeritus Great post! Back about a month ago I did a PDI on a 2011 A4 and during the inspection I found a fuel door lid in blue sitting in the trunk inside a bag with the floor matts and wiper blades. The car that I was working on was white. I was a little confused until I found out that one of the other cars that were dropped off was missing thier fuel door lid. Someone at the factory had forgotten to install the lid and had just tossed it into another car that was to be delivered to us lol. Sales ordered a new one and I still have it sitting in my toolbox. Well going off memory since this thread was ressurected from a year ago but the thermostat was working initially. Not sure how the coolant shot out past the cap other than the cap was probably defective. They did end up replacing it as when I tried to tighten it it felt like it had too much "give" in it. Thinking back on it I suppose 12 miles was acceptable, and I do trust the dealership since I've brought it back for work since. Glad to hear that the problem is properly fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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