FORT HOOD SOLDIERS ATTACKED BY PHYSCO MOSLEM U.S. ARMY MAJOR AND MD.

[stump_breaker]

I understand your frustration. However, there's a reason why military bases have armories, and weapons are kept under guard, lock and key, etc. The fact that this happened on a military base, out of all places, goes to show how vulnerable we are... And like you said, "A crazy person intent on doing this will find a way to get a gun," they'll find a way to cause harm irregardless of preventative measures (like allowing base members to have a CCW, or "removing your shoes" when you go through airport security).

 

Granted someone who robs a gun store is just plain stupid; I can't argue that a gunmen on a military base is any different.

For the most part I have to disagree with you on what you have stated in your posts.

 

I do have a true story to tell though. A few years back, I can't remember when exactly, a Pawn Shop in Sulphur Springs, TX which was also a local gun store was robbed in broad daylight while occupied by the employees. All the employees open carried when at work.

I lived in Sulphur Springs at the time.

Here is the report by the Winnsboro News but it is not entirely accurate. Jay was not the only one returning fire.

 

A brazen gunman left his car idling 50 yds. from the Sulphur Springs, Texas, police station one morning, walked into The Pawn Shop nearby and opened fire with a small-caliber handgun, striking two workers and a customer with as many as nine shots. What the man didn’t know was that the store’s co-owner, Jay Price, was in the back and had heard the entire barrage. After arming himself with a 12-ga. shotgun, the storekeeper emerged to fire one deafening blast from the smoothbore, dropping the assailant with serious wounds and ending the assault. “We believe that if Jay Price had not acted the way he did that there would have been some fatalities,” said Sulphur Springs Police Chief Donnie Lewis. “The victims who had already been shot were probably saved by Jay Price.”

 

Naturally in this case though, the Federal Government was not involved so the "good guys" prevailed immediately instead of eventually.

[SicShelby]

For the most part I have to disagree with you on what you have stated in your posts.

 

I do have a true story to tell though. A few years back, I can't remember when exactly, a Pawn Shop in Sulphur Springs, TX which was also a local gun store was robbed in broad daylight while occupied by the employees. All the employees open carried when at work.

I lived in Sulphur Springs at the time.

Here is the report by the Winnsboro News but it is not entirely accurate. Jay was not the only one returning fire.

 

A brazen gunman left his car idling 50 yds. from the Sulphur Springs, Texas, police station one morning, walked into The Pawn Shop nearby and opened fire with a small-caliber handgun, striking two workers and a customer with as many as nine shots. What the man didn’t know was that the store’s co-owner, Jay Price, was in the back and had heard the entire barrage. After arming himself with a 12-ga. shotgun, the storekeeper emerged to fire one deafening blast from the smoothbore, dropping the assailant with serious wounds and ending the assault. “We believe that if Jay Price had not acted the way he did that there would have been some fatalities,” said Sulphur Springs Police Chief Donnie Lewis. “The victims who had already been shot were probably saved by Jay Price.”

 

Naturally in this case though, the Federal Government was not involved so the "good guys" prevailed immediately instead of eventually.

 

Where you military?

[stump_breaker]

Where you military?

 

No never. Always a civilian.

[SicShelby]

No never. Always a civilian.

 

Gotcha. Then I can see why what I'm stating doesn't make sense.

[1badsho]

The "psycho muslim major " as this article portrays .... was an american born citizen .... never any issues ..... graduated from Virg Tech ... had won lots of honors and was getting seriously paranoia about deploying over seas ...... and from what little info that came out .... the fact that he was muslim had nothing to do with the incident.

 

He was a Major .... a army lifer and was just freaking out about possible deployment and obviously we all know what he did.

 

Most that knew him were shocked. Basically a good doctor. Point here is no one knows if the muslim factor had anything to do with this. In time it will come out if he being a muslim had anything to do with it or if him being a soldier and just loosing it which has happened before was the cause.

 

The headline of this article for those who are muslims on this website just sorta of rubed me the wrong way ... not trying to create any flames here just putting a different persepective on this.

 

My 2 cents

[stump_breaker]

Gotcha. Then I can see why what I'm stating doesn't make sense.

 

That's why I only posted one sentence because I do not understand military mentality but, I also do not understand disarming trained military personnel which is more with what I was disagreeing. From the outside looking in this is an extreme fault in the system.

[Boss Doctor]

Gotcha. Then I can see why what I'm stating doesn't make sense.

Well, I am former military and police, and I disagree with you, Gabe. The more you handle weapons the more likely you'll have unintentional discharges, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. I've seen many more Marines killed by the machinery that they operate than by the weapons that they handle. Military are storing their personal weapons off base so they don't have to go through the BS of getting their own personal weapons out of the armory. For those of you who don't know, you have to have your Commanding Officer's written permission to take your personal weapon out of the armory just to go to the range to practice or to hunt. Imagine what a pain-in-the-ass that is! Those people are handling their weapons off base without the destruction you imagine, Gabe, and there would be much harsher punishment if an unintentional discharge occurred on base than off base for sure. We also aren't living in the same world that I did when I was a Marine. The soldiers in Arkansas demonstrated the threat, and our society asks enough out of our military to include asking them to be sheep for the slaughter while on a base in the United States.

[SicShelby]

Well, I am former military and police, and I disagree with you, Gabe. The more you handle weapons the more likely you'll have unintentional discharges, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. I've seen many more Marines killed by the machinery that they operate than by the weapons that they handle. Military are storing their personal weapons off base so they don't have to go through the BS of getting their own personal weapons out of the armory. For those of you who don't know, you have to have your Commanding Officer's written permission to take your personal weapon out of the armory just to go to the range to practice or to hunt. Imagine what a pain-in-the-ass that is! Those people are handling their weapons off base without the destruction you imagine, Gabe, and there would be much harsher punishment if an unintentional discharge occurred on base than off base for sure. We also aren't living in the same world that I did when I was a Marine. The soldiers in Arkansas demonstrated the threat, and our society asks enough out of our military to include asking them to be sheep for the slaughter while on a base in the United States.

 

I didn't say that we don't know how to use weapons. Yes, we have more training with firearms than the average person. Allowing military persons on base to all carry concealed weapons is FAR from a practical answer to the shooting.

 

And besides, there's a reason why it's such a pain in the a$$ to have personal weapons on base, and for some reason, I don't think that's because we're more responsible than the average bear with a firearm.

[SicShelby]

That's why I only posted one sentence because I do not understand military mentality but, I also do not understand disarming trained military personnel which is more with what I was disagreeing. From the outside looking in this is an extreme fault in the system.

 

Disarming trained military... I can see this in reference to when we're at war (which is when we use those tools), and not when we're back home on a military base in US soil.

[JeffIsHereToo]

FYI!

 

"U.S. Muslims reacted with both anger and fear of backlash after revelations that Hasan is a practicing Muslim. The nation's major Muslim organizations and several mosques quickly condemned the attacks as contrary to Islam and highlighted the military service of U.S. Muslims, including those who have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. "The community is in a state of agony," said Muqtedar Khan, director of the Islamic studies program at the University of Delaware and a well-known progressive Muslim intellectual."

 

I guess that's something.

[Boss Doctor]

FYI!

 

"U.S. Muslims reacted with both anger and fear of backlash after revelations that Hasan is a practicing Muslim. The nation's major Muslim organizations and several mosques quickly condemned the attacks as contrary to Islam and highlighted the military service of U.S. Muslims, including those who have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. "The community is in a state of agony," said Muqtedar Khan, director of the Islamic studies program at the University of Delaware and a well-known progressive Muslim intellectual."

 

I guess that's something.

It's better than crickets.

[Boss Doctor]

I didn't say that we don't know how to use weapons. Yes, we have more training with firearms than the average person. Allowing military persons on base to all carry concealed weapons is FAR from a practical answer to the shooting.

 

And besides, there's a reason why it's such a pain in the a$$ to have personal weapons on base, and for some reason, I don't think that's because we're more responsible than the average bear with a firearm.

And by that same argument one can say all weapons should be regulated since highly trained professionals can't handle the responsibility. I'm the same person I was as a Marine, and I carry concealed without shoot-outs on a daily basis. I also have not argued that it should be concealed carry. Holstered weapons in the hands of Staff and Officers would probably do what's needed.

[SicShelby]

And by that same argument one can say all weapons should be regulated since highly trained professionals can't handle the responsibility. I'm the same person I was as a Marine, and I carry concealed without shoot-outs on a daily basis. I also have not argued that it should be concealed carry. Holstered weapons in the hands of Staff and Officers would probably do what's needed.

 

Wouldn't be surprised!

 

And at what point (being out of the military) are you faced with the stresses and "fog of war" that those in active duty experience? Carrying a CCW for a military member is not the same as your average gun-toting American.

[Boss Doctor]

Wouldn't be surprised!

Surprised at which part?

[SicShelby]

Surprized at which part?

 

We're entering gun rights at this point...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it came to a point where even qualified individuals aren't permitted the right to bare arms.

[Boss Doctor]

Wouldn't be surprised!

 

And at what point (being out of the military) are you faced with the stresses and "fog of war" that those in active duty experience? Carrying a CCW for a military member is not the same as your average gun-toting American.

Again, I'm not talking about concealed carry for that would not be necessary for a soldier in uniform.

 

But to address your premise of the stresses of war causing them to crack, do you mean like they are in Afghanistan and Iraq? I've heard no reports from those countries indicating that stressed-out soldiers are constantly shooting up the CP's, tents, chow halls, etc, over there, and surely they are under more stress in a war zone than they are while on a base in the United States. Or is it the mere fact that they returned to the United States to start shooting? Couldn't a stressed-out soldier bring in weapon(s) in his personal vehicle and shoot up the base if that is what he/she decided to do in their stressed-out state? I think this incident clearly demonstrates that possibility. Do you not think a CO capable of determining who out of his staff and officers are stable enough to bear arms in a holster for security purposes?

 

The fact remains that the strict rules the military has did not save anyone in this incident, nor will it save anyone in the future. Only an armed response will protect people.

[Son of GT]

The "psycho muslim major " as this article portrays .... was an american born citizen .... never any issues ..... graduated from Virg Tech ... had won lots of honors and was getting seriously paranoia about deploying over seas ...... and from what little info that came out .... the fact that he was muslim had nothing to do with the incident.

 

He was a Major .... a army lifer and was just freaking out about possible deployment and obviously we all know what he did.

 

Most that knew him were shocked. Basically a good doctor. Point here is no one knows if the muslim factor had anything to do with this. In time it will come out if he being a muslim had anything to do with it or if him being a soldier and just loosing it which has happened before was the cause.

 

The headline of this article for those who are muslims on this website just sorta of rubed me the wrong way ... not trying to create any flames here just putting a different persepective on this.

 

My 2 cents

 

Fair enough. I agree that this forum's title could be construed as inflamatory, but I am personally quite angry with this attack, and at first blush, it does seem to have some religious motivation behind it as the MD was reported to shout "Allahu Akbar" during his rampage. And if the Molsem religion is a peace loving as some (most?) Moslems say it is, then I have to assume that the Major acted in a manner that could easely be labeled as physcotic.

 

The Major was also seen earler in the day at a 7-11(?) dressed in traditional Muslim clothes, which doesn't necessarly indict him as a nut case or a terrorist, but does seem out of place (red flag?) for a Major who supposedly went to prayers dressed in his Army uniform.

 

The Major also popped up on LE's radar because of some past blog posts about Moslem suicide bombers being honorible...

 

"At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

 

They had not confirmed Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.

 

Federal authorities seized Hasan's computer Friday during a search of his apartment in Killeen, Texas, said a U.S. military official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

 

His anger was noted by a classmate, who said Hasan "viewed the war against terror" as a "war against Islam."

 

The Major also had problems doing his job. He was aparantly written up a couple of times for poor work performance, but details about the write up's are not public.

 

So while the Major may not be a "physco" as I have labeled him in the title, he certanly was not a perfect U.S. Army officer either.

 

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa....289d4f1cc.html

 

I will be more than happy to change and tone down this forum's title if there is a majority consensus from additional members that feel I should tone it down a bit.

 

I am open to all opinions and suggestions.

 

[SicShelby]

Again, I'm not talking about concealed carry for that would not be necessary for a soldier in uniform.

 

But to address your premise of the stresses of war causing them to crack, do you mean like they are in Afghanistan and Iraq? I've heard no reports from those countries indicating that stressed-out soldiers are constantly shooting up the CP's, tents, chow halls, etc, over there, and surely they are under more stress in a war zone than they are while on a base in the United States. Or is it the mere fact that they returned to the United States to start shooting? Couldn't a stressed-out soldier bring in weapon(s) in his personal vehicle and shoot up the base if that is what he/she decided to do in their stressed-out state? I think this incident clearly demonstrates that possibility. Do you not think a CO capable of determining who out of his staff and officers are stable enough to bear arms in a holster for security purposes?

 

Yes, I mean like they are in Afghanistan and Iraq. Like the guy who cleaned his head out with his 9 mil in the can in Kuwait, or Hausinger in my platoon when he was home on leave (and I don't think the CO seen that one coming!). This happens a lot more than you give credit! The suicide rate for veterans and those returning home is wayyyy outside of "normal."

 

And you bet, those same responsible individuals could have thrown an AK in the trunk and sprayed the PX with lead, but don't you think it would be a little more likely if he was openly allowed a side arm??

 

The fact remains that the strict rules the military has did not save anyone in this incident, nor will it save anyone in the future. Only an armed response will protect people.

 

Exactly, and allowing someone a CCW on base is just asking for trouble.

[Sherri Leicht]

No need to change the title. Like I saw on TV last night, an Army Chaplain Shazazz (who is Muslim) said in response to the "camel jockey" remark, thicker skin is needed as to not get so offended at little remarks.

 

Besides, one can only imagine what our soldiers are being called across the pond. This is America and we still have freedom of speech here to call it like it is.

[Boss Doctor]

Yes, I mean like they are in Afghanistan and Iraq. Like the guy who cleaned his head out with his 9 mil in the can in Kuwait, or Hausinger in my platoon when he was home on leave (and I don't think the CO seen that one coming!). This happens a lot more than you give credit! The suicide rate for veterans and those returning home is wayyyy outside of "normal."

 

And you bet, those same responsible individuals could have thrown an AK in the trunk and sprayed the PX with lead, but don't you think it would be a little more likely if he was openly allowed a side arm??

 

 

 

Exactly, and allowing someone a CCW on base is just asking for trouble.

No, I don't think it'd be more likely. I think if someone gets it in their head to kill their self or others they will do it no matter what. The problem is when the people who aren't chomping at the bit to die are taken out because they weren't given the choice to protect themselves. What about them? Do they have no right to exist because someone else thinks that they shouldn't?

 

People itching to make a statement like that do not search-out people who are armed: otherwise, they'd be walking into gun ranges and police stations all around the country giving it a go. On the contrary, they go where they know the victims will be un-armed so they can make as big of a statement as possible by taking out as many innocents as possible. It's how they make everyone else feel their pain too.

 

As far as suicide rate is concerned these rules obviously have zero effectiveness otherwise the military wouldn't be having the high suicide rate to begin with.

[SicShelby]

I'm not arguing this topic anymore.

[1badsho]

Fair enough. I agree that this forum's title could be construed as inflamatory, but I am personally quite angry with this attack, and at first blush, it does seem to have some religious motivation behind it as the MD was reported to shout "Allahu Akbar" during his rampage. And if the Molsem religion is a peace loving as some (most?) Moslems say it is, then I have to assume that the Major acted in a manner that could easely be labeled as physcotic.

 

The Major was also seen earler in the day at a 7-11(?) dressed in traditional Muslim clothes, which doesn't necessarly indict him as a nut case or a terrorist, but does seem out of place (red flag?) for a Major who supposedly went to prayers dressed in his Army uniform.

 

The Major also popped up on LE's radar because of some past blog posts about Moslem suicide bombers being honorible...

 

"At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

 

They had not confirmed Hasan is the author of the posting, and a formal investigation had not been opened before the shooting, said law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to discuss the case.

 

Federal authorities seized Hasan's computer Friday during a search of his apartment in Killeen, Texas, said a U.S. military official who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

 

His anger was noted by a classmate, who said Hasan "viewed the war against terror" as a "war against Islam."

 

The Major also had problems doing his job. He was aparantly written up a couple of times for poor work performance, but details about the write up's are not public.

 

So while the Major may not be a "physco" as I have labeled him in the title, he certanly was not a perfect U.S. Army officer either.

 

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa....289d4f1cc.html

 

I will be more than happy to change and tone down this forum's title if there is a majority consensus from additional members that feel I should tone it down a bit.

 

I am open to all opinions and suggestions.

 

 

Hey sonofgt ... Thank you

 

I too heard the same information about the shooter ..... and some of the posts that he might have made .... and what he might have said when he opened fire ... and in time it could be proven exactly what you stated.

 

Im prob more pro america than alot .... but thought I would bring this one point up that it also could have been a crazed army major .... and if he knew he was going to die .... I could see him swearing not to Jesus or in english but to in native tongue to alah ...

 

Regardless ..... my prayers go out to the people who lost there lives and to there families ..... a shameless act no doubt

[JeffIsHereToo]

I'd like to hear from our Muslim members and get their thoughts maybe?

 

[07-2937]

youall know how i feel about this Ive lived amongst Islam and it wasnt fun... It is easy for them to get inflamed and go nuts. but anyone could of done it, it just happened to be a muslim doctor chanting in arabic as he pulled the trigger. looks like he will miss his virgins and little boys...

[svtkeith]

I'd like to hear from our Muslim members and get their thoughts maybe?

 

 

 

 

Maybe they will later...Right now they may be out celebrating...No one will ever convince

 

me that it was just a coincidence that the gunman was muslim...The people that think that

 

better wake up.

[07-2937]

Getting my ccw renewed saturday three calibers 18 states 9mm .40 and .44

the muslims are gonna be silent till this one plays out i bet

[Sherri Leicht]

word heard that he was part of the Obama transition team, homeland security area. any thruth to this? Yea, there is: http://www.gwumc.edu/hspi/old/PTTF_Proceed...rt_05.19.09.pdf

[DubbsFaris]

I agree with you SnakeDoctor, let the staff and officers carry then, or like the old days the "officer of the day" always was issued a pistol...it was on MASH, so it must be true...remember Hawkeye? "I'll carry over carry under, cary grant, harry carry, carry a tune, but I will not carry a gun"!

 

Wow, what a memory!

 

anyway, my original point was simply a base full of unarmed soldiers is not a base at all...its a bodycount; an easy target that can be overtaken and penetrated....and this is where we keep the "cool" toys...imagine them in the wrong hands...

 

OR we can simply keep things the way they are...like keeping tanks away from units so some guy doesnt snap and take one for a joyride pancake spree through downtown L.A......oh, thats right...it STILL happened. As crazy people will always be willing to break the rules and the laws of the land once they have nothing to loose in doing so.

 

I usually just carry mine in the car, but I do always carry in movie theatres...mark my words here and now...that WILL be a target one day...

I dont always carry a gun, but when I do, I prefer crowded places....

[Son of GT]

More about this (msmap's post) at the link below, as well as Hasan's blog about suicide bombers at the bottom of the page. The blog that made him pop up on law enforcement's radar 6 months ago.

 

http://gawker.com/5398253/nidal-hasan-ft-h...ter-preparation

[07-2937]

As far as carrying guns during duty it would be a pita to work around most enlisted like 9-% are issued a M-16 not a side arm....

When issued the weapon (not in a conflict zone) the ability to work and protect the weapon would be detrimental to both things.. Officers carry side arms and I agree that maybe they should issue sidearms to certain officers in certain positions NOT DOCTORS.

I was in a middle eastern country during desert storm/shield and the local military were listening to the shortwave and actually believed saddam was beating us and started to turn on us thats when we got issued our weapons (m16). I was acft maint and the care and maint of the weapon was difficult to do our work and we had to eat, sleep, shower with it).

This incident was another warning WE AMERICANS NEED TO BE VIGILANT WE NEED TO HOLD PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE (chain of command)

AND WE NEED TO QUIT BEING SO POLITICALLY CORRECT.

LOOK AT THE MUSLIM EXTREMIST WACKJOBS IN NY ON TV CLAIMING ALLAH HAS DIRECTED THEM TO TERRORIZE THE UNBELIEVER....

extremist wackjob

and

wackjobs