Active Duty Military...

[bpodner]

I did not mean to imply that the US military has become pu$$ie$ but some things make you wonder if our leaders would like us to be. When you get more “sensitivity” training (EO/EEO, COO, Sexual Harassment, Suicide Prevention, Safety, etc…) than time on the range, something is out of whack. The job is to close with and destroy the enemy, or support those that do. I would gladly but our military up against ANY other in a “gloves off” war.

[08SGT1977]

time to go burn one

[mywickedshelby]

there are more than 2 kinds of our military operating out there.......

 

at least 2 very different experiences have been characterized here.

 

I feel they are accurately illustrated in these 2 photos:

 

 

 

[Son of GT]

Amazing. Of all the responses within this forum, there is none that addresses the reason why the military is considering a ban on smoking in the military...

 

IT'S DEADLY; PERIOD!

 

And using the logic that bullets are also deadly so why not let the folks in harm's way enjoy their little pleasures does not hold water. What you are saying is that "oh, what the hell". "I may die by a bullet anyway, so I'll just smoke and take my chances". That's pretzel logic. The military provides the troops with whatever protection they can (helmets, flack vests, armored vehicles) to stop enemy bullets from killing troops, so why shouldn't they do whatever they can to stop a silent killer too?

 

Banning smoking is GOOD for the health of the troops. The military has accepted the FACT the smoking kills, so they are now trying to prevent deaths from within.

 

Think that I'm full of it? Okay, that's fair. Just click on the links below to get another FACT about smoking.

 

WARNING, THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES:

 

http://www.lungusa.org/atf/cf/%7B7A8D42C2-...ty_lung1_hr.jpg

 

http://www.lungusa.org/atf/cf/%7B7A8D42C2-...ty_lung2_hr.jpg

 

Offended? Too bad. I lost my dad to lung cancer and he had quit smoking for over 30 years before he died. I was offended at his death but there was nothing that I could do about it. Hopefully this ban will save someone else's father, brother, uncle, mother, sister, aunt, etc, etc.

 

How would you like to see YOUR father or loved one lying in their death bed GASPING for air in a futile attempt to get life giving air into their lungs only to suffer greatly before expiring.

 

Still don't believe me? Then go to your nearest Veterans hosipital and visit the men and women who never took a bullet or flack during their service but are dying from lung cancer or emphysema caused by SMOKING.

 

SMOKING KILLS AND DEATH IS PERMANENT.

 

Sorry for the rant, but like most of you, I love(d) my dad and really wish he was still around.

 

As the they say in the hood, "peace-out my brothers".

[mywickedshelby]

PRETZEL LOGIC?

 

Wasnt that a Steely Dan album?

[odgreen001]

FLAME ON BUT DO IT WITH RESPECT seems like im one of the few that agree with the ban.... 22.5 years 6 deployments to the middle east and "other places"... Has anyone been to Angola?...

 

I dont smoke never did. I do drink and the only one it effects is me can you say that about smoking?? The Smokers of today are not to blame nor is it a symptom of the pussification Smoking is a crutch Nobody needs a smoke and nobody needs to drink its about wants and desires Not addiction The military sells cigs @ discount pricing then expects smokers to quit. So the ambiguity stays WTF... Military service is a privilege requiring a sense of DUTY HONOR and Bravery...

 

Haven't been to Angola, but have been to Somalia. It was a shit hole.

 

Reference your comment, "I don't smoke, never did. I do drink and the only one it effects is me can you say that about smoking??

 

Dude, I'm sure many of the alchol related accidents, causing anthing from a small fender bender to death or dismemberment thought the same thing...."it only effects me".

 

Rethink your position.

[odgreen001]

I also think Military Service is not a priviledge. It is a duty that some people feel and respond to, and others don't.

 

Dan

USMC '78-82

 

 

+1 :happy feet:

[odgreen001]

Amazing. Of all the responses within this forum, there is none that addresses the reason why the military is considering a ban on smoking in the military...

 

IT'S DEADLY; PERIOD!

 

And using the logic that bullets are also deadly so why not let the folks in harm's way enjoy their little pleasures does not hold water. What you are saying is that "oh, what the hell". "I may die by a bullet anyway, so I'll just smoke and take my chances". That's pretzel logic. The military provides the troops with whatever protection they can (helmets, flack vests, armored vehicles) to stop enemy bullets from killing troops, so why shouldn't they do whatever they can to stop a silent killer too?

 

Banning smoking is GOOD for the health of the troops. The military has accepted the FACT the smoking kills, so they are now trying to prevent deaths from within.

 

Think that I'm full of it? Okay, that's fair. Just click on the links below to get another FACT about smoking.

 

WARNING, THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS GRAPHIC IMAGES:

 

http://www.lungusa.org/atf/cf/%7B7A8D42C2-...ty_lung1_hr.jpg

 

http://www.lungusa.org/atf/cf/%7B7A8D42C2-...ty_lung2_hr.jpg

 

Offended? Too bad. I lost my dad to lung cancer and he had quit smoking for over 30 years before he died. I was offended at his death but there was nothing that I could do about it. Hopefully this ban will save someone else's father, brother, uncle, mother, sister, aunt, etc, etc.

 

How would you like to see YOUR father or loved one lying in their death bed GASPING for air in a futile attempt to get life giving air into their lungs only to suffer greatly before expiring.

 

Still don't believe me? Then go to your nearest Veterans hosipital and visit the men and women who never took a bullet or flack during their service but are dying from lung cancer or emphysema caused by SMOKING.

 

SMOKING KILLS AND DEATH IS PERMANENT.

 

Sorry for the rant, but like most of you, I love(d) my dad and really wish he was still around.

 

As the they say in the hood, "peace-out my brothers".

 

 

I don't think anyone in here doesn't know that smoking is not good for you. However, it is NOT unlawful and people enjoy it. Why take that away from them?

 

From your avatar you must be a fly boy. I was stationed at Hurlburt Field for 4 years and my brother flew Talons out of there. I can tell you that how the AF treats their people and what the Army, especially combat arms, goes through are two totally different worlds. When your mission is over it is RTB for a beer and some sleep. For the Army & MC combat arms, they are stuck living in the shit that you happen to fly over. So let them have their vices.

 

By your standards the military should control exactly what the guys eat, cause by God we don't want them to be over weight or have high cholestoral. And maybe we should monitor and direct the number of hours they "must" sleep. Don't want anyont causing accidents due to lack of sleep. Don't believe any of that...go google it. What we need is "less" government intervention.

 

And by the way, my grandfather died from lung cancer (related to smoking) and my mother's lungs are screwed (from smoking). It was their choice and they had and have to live with it. Your picture perfect world isn't real.

[RUFDRAFT]

I don't think anyone in here doesn't know that smoking is not good for you. However, it is NOT unlawful and people enjoy it. Why take that away from them?

 

From your avatar you must be a fly boy. I was stationed at Hurlburt Field for 4 years and my brother flew Talons out of there. I can tell you that how the AF treats their people and what the Army, especially combat arms, goes through are two totally different worlds. When your mission is over it is RTB for a beer and some sleep. For the Army & MC combat arms, they are stuck living in the shit that you happen to fly over. So let them have their vices.

 

By your standards the military should control exactly what the guys eat, cause by God we don't want them to be over weight or have high cholestoral. And maybe we should monitor and direct the number of hours they "must" sleep. Don't want anyont causing accidents due to lack of sleep. Don't believe any of that...go google it. What we need is "less" government intervention.

 

And by the way, my grandfather died from lung cancer (related to smoking) and my mother's lungs are screwed (from smoking). It was their choice and they had and have to live with it. Your picture perfect world isn't real.

Well said.

[07-2937]

Haven't been to Angola, but have been to Somalia. It was a shit hole.

 

Reference your comment, "I don't smoke, never did. I do drink and the only one it effects is me can you say that about smoking??

 

Dude, I'm sure many of the alchol related accidents, causing anthing from a small fender bender to death or dismemberment thought the same thing...."it only effects me".

 

Rethink your position.

 

Rethink my position hmmm I dont smoke never did never will. I drink RESPONSIBLY notice the word I? Alcohol does not have secondary harms if used in moderation. Alcohol in moderation has been proven to add some health benefits (not that I care) you could use some bizarre logic and say that drunk drivers kill. And yes they do, so do cell phone users, people putting on makeup, reading the paper, speeding, unsafe cars and unqualified IDIOTS in general.

As was said its the Military they made me do a lot that I didn't want to do. Medical experts have said that there is NO benefit gained from smoking only ill effects. Also performance reports are there to set apart mediocre performers from truly outstanding performers if some one reports for duty drunk or hung over its on them!! If somebody takes the liberty to have "many extra smoke breaks" its on them men make their own way. I can tell you that smokers taking extra time from duty for extra breaks receive the mediocre marks as do sick from alcohol. (its the whole person)

I stated my thoughts and my opinion notice the word I and MY.

Its freedom that only a few nations enjoy. I did not attack anyone on their stance I just stated my opinion.

[odgreen001]

Its freedom that only a few nations enjoy. I did not attack anyone on their stance I just stated my opinion.

 

uhhh, I think everyone is just stating their opinion. But remember, it is not unlawful to smoke...it is unlawful to drink and drive. Next time you run into someone smokng a cigerette or sit down next to someone in the messhall who smells of cigerette smoke, it is "your choice" to move to another location. All you are doing by agreeing with a government push to stop smoking, is giving them free will to impose more government restrictions. While you may agree with this particular push, don't go crying to mama when they come pushing to take away some freedom you care for....that's the bottom line of what i'm saying.

 

I don't smoke, don't like the smell of it and if I'm around someone who is smoking or smells like smoke and I don't like it...I move. But I don't believe the government has the right, or should be given the power to take things away from us that are legal. If they want to take it away, pass a law making it illegal.

[JeffIsHereToo]

American troops are not to be banned from smoking in war zones, the US Defence Department says.

 

The decision comes despite a recent study which recommended the US military should be tobacco-free.

Pentagon spokesman, Geoff Morrell, said US troops were already making enough sacrifices in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8153094.stm

[odgreen001]

American troops are not to be banned from smoking in war zones, the US Defence Department says.

 

The decision comes despite a recent study which recommended the US military should be tobacco-free.

Pentagon spokesman, Geoff Morrell, said US troops were already making enough sacrifices in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

 

Maybe I'm reading too much into the heading there, but I honestly don't think so. The key phrase is, "in war zones". That tells me that our not so great political leaders will take their time and dismantle the ability of our military to smoke all together. Only it will come in stages. First there will be something that will limit them from smoking in certain places...oops, that's already happened. Then there will be laws or regulations telling them they can only smoke during certain times. Then there will be a law or regulation saying they can't smoke while on duty....in the states or while in garrison. Then they'll end it with a complete ban on smoking.

 

Just the whole statement is tlike a warning order..get ready, were not going to take away your rights just yet, but it is coming.

[Lucky 2]

I served 24 years on Submarines, we were allowed to smoke any where on the Boat including the Control Room at Periscope depth. No Problems what so ever. The last few years of service thay started to ban smoking . The only problem it caused was more stress and stress relatied problems. LETS FIND MORE WAS TO INVOLVE OUR SELFS IN OTHERS LIFES AND REMOVE ALL THOUGHT OF PERSONEL CHOICE AND ACCOUNTIBILITY.

[RUFDRAFT]

I served 24 years on Submarines, we were allowed to smoke any where on the Boat including the Control Room at Periscope depth. No Problems what so ever. The last few years of service thay started to ban smoking . The only problem it caused was more stress and stress relatied problems. LETS FIND MORE WAS TO INVOLVE OUR SELFS IN OTHERS LIFES AND REMOVE ALL THOUGHT OF PERSONEL CHOICE AND ACCOUNTIBILITY.

 

Subs are different, IMO. I can see having a smoking room on the boat that has an independent filtering system. If I wasn't a smoker on a sub, I wouldn't want to breathe second hand smoke. (like an airplane)

 

The no smoking idea is out of control. At the hospital 30 miles from me, they have a "smoke free campus." Vis a Vie - you can't even smoke out in the PARKING LOT or in your Car! Crazy.

[JeffIsHereToo]

I served 24 years on Submarines, we were allowed to smoke any where on the Boat including the Control Room at Periscope depth. No Problems what so ever. The last few years of service thay started to ban smoking . The only problem it caused was more stress and stress relatied problems. LETS FIND MORE WAS TO INVOLVE OUR SELFS IN OTHERS LIFES AND REMOVE ALL THOUGHT OF PERSONEL CHOICE AND ACCOUNTIBILITY.

 

 

When did you retire? I got to my first boat in 1984 and it was "NO SMOKING" at anytime anywhere on board. I was on 688's but as a Tech in MOTU 4 I worked on everything from the Greenling and Tullibee (also known as building 597), to 594's, and 637's. No more of those around.

[Lucky 2]

When did you retire? I got to my first boat in 1984 and it was "NO SMOKING" at anytime anywhere on board. I was on 688's but as a Tech in MOTU 4 I worked on everything from the Greenling and Tullibee (also known as building 597), to 594's, and 637's. No more of those around.

 

I retired in May of 1992, my last boat was the City of Corpus Christi (SSN 705) a 688 but most of my time was on Boomers SSBN 642, SSBN 654, SSBN 636 all smoking boats . Three tours at Repair Facilities and Lead Instructor at Basic Enlisted Submarine School . Entered the Navy in 1968 worked on Greenling, Tulibee and Nautlis when she was operational .

[JeffIsHereToo]

I retired in May of 1992, my last boat was the City of Corpus Christi (SSN 705) a 688 but most of my time was on Boomers SSBN 642, SSBN 654, SSBN 636 all smoking boats . Three tours at Repair Facilities and Lead Instructor at Basic Enlisted Submarine School . Entered the Navy in 1968 worked on Greenling, Tulibee and Nautlis when she was operational .

 

Wonder if smoking was allowed on Boomers only? ???? Could you smoke anywhere or was there a smoking lamp sort of thing? Never served on a Boomer, or spent any time in one, except for a tour during a stop in Holy Lock back in 85. The good ol' days! LOL! I was on the 705 a few times for tech assists etc. I was an FT....you?

[odgreen001]

I wasn't a submariner, but was on the Sam Houston from some place in Alaska (can't remember the place) to one of the Aleutian islands. Did a dry deck launch from it. Can't remember the name of the island, but it was just a big navy base there...no civilians, except family and workers.

 

I was suprised at how smooth those things are. I couldn't really tell that we had started moving. Didn't get to see much, as we tried to get some sleep. The navy guys asked us if we wanted to go to the conn room or something, but we didn't...I think that sort of pissed them off. Same thing about chow. They wanted to take the team commander and team sergeant to a different messhall, but they stayed with the rest of the team...I think that pissed them off a little too. They made us where dosimeters, which I guess is normal.

 

Have also done trunk ops, but not from a sub. In key west they have an old diesal trunk that they stuck on those 40' tower things that you would think fuel is in. We practiced flooding and controlling preassures, then when we equalized, cracked the hatch and swam into the 40' tower. Trunk ops were scary for me...had a knucklehead that didn't know what he was doing...thought we were going to die until someone w/experience pushed his ass out of the way.

 

Anyway, even though we slept most of the trip, it is a memory I will always keep. How many people can say they've been on a sub. :happy feet:

[SicShelby]

A lot of you have provided some very educating information on this feedback. Some have directly seen the adverse effects of smoking, others do without much concern. I think that smoking (as someone put) is indeed a personal choice. Another member mentioned that if they are going to ban smoking, then they might as well monitor our sleep and eating habits, drinking habits, hell driving habits, what's next? Point is, if there is something in place that isn't okay by everyone, they try to remove it! It's *NOT* going to stop at smoking, believe me.

 

Look, I smoke... I didn't smoke until after boot camp in the Marine Corps... I continue to do so, and yes, I know the damage that can occur. Unfortunately for some people though, that is my decision. During firewatch, late night hours, whatEVER, you did what you needed to do to stay awake. You slapped yourself, you had your buddy slap you, you drank coffee, you smoked, you talked...

 

Smoking is a bad habit, and I will admit that! It makes you very self conscious when you are with family or other people that do not smoke. The addiction in itself is what clings to some more than others. I knew a man that had one lung taken out and was on oxygen for the other lung, and still smoked. Talk about crazy!

 

Any rate... thank you all for your points of view. I see things a little differently concerning that ban, at this time. However, banning smoking in the military... I'm not ready for that yet. I've been there.