SicShelby Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 First they were trying to allow homosexuals to come out of the closet in the military... now this: Military Smoking Ban I think my wife said it best - "Good luck!!!" Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Complete Bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odgreen001 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 It's about time they got something right.........NOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportscars Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Ruf, what do you REALLY think about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SGT1977 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 It would never fly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Why not ban red meat? And beer? And potato chips? Sorry - I'm getting a little edgy with Obama recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hawkins Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 It's like taking Prayer out of School.........as long as there are TEST's, there will always be Prayer in School. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabber Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Sorry - I'm getting a little edgy with Obama recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOWN Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Cmon Its not Obama doing it :happy feet: Its Bushes fault. Its just starting to get good. Your President only has so many days to shove all this down R throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odgreen001 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Ruf, what do you REALLY think about it? The asian girl in your avitar is freaking hot and sexy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherri Leicht Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 why don't they go pick on someone else who isn't out saving their a$$es!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I served six years on submarines and they are "no smoking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I served six years on submarines and they are "no smoking". That's probably a good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I served six years on submarines and they are "no smoking". Submarine duty is voluntary, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormeaston Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 That's what we need..........................more frick'n laws, we don't have enough now. It seems like everybody is ban crazy!, ban this, ban that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 That's what we need..........................more frick'n laws, we don't have enough now. It seems like everybody is ban crazy!, ban this, ban that! I don't know if you meant it this way, but they don't need a law to issue a lawful order. When you are in the military you are government property, and in their mind they are just maintaining their property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpodner Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Glad I have my retirement paperwork in. This isn't the same Army I joined in '83. At least Gates has said no to this latest "social experiment" within the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicShelby Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 The military has come a long way. When I joined the good 'ol Marine Corps in 2001, there were plenty of "female Marines", where before they never were really allowed. There was a LOT of tension when it came to crossing the border into Iraq in 2003. Do we take them? Do we not take them? What do we do?? Well... they crossed the border with us... Homosexuality in the military has come to light - do we allow it? Do we keep the "don't ask don't tell" policy? What do we do?? And forgive me for my opinion, but there were two homosexuals in my company in the Marine's, and when they decided to "voice" their position, they were kicked out. I didn't have a problem with that! I had a hard enough time dealing with the females in my platoon. Hey, this was bound to come up at some point, but like Ruf said, "BULLSH!T!" I tell you what, when you come back from convoys or raids, or you've been shot at, you need that smoke!! During the Korean war, hell, they were ISSUED in the c-rations. I can agree with them not being issued directly to military members, and that (Doc) the government is protecting their "property" (which is the case), but like the article says, we do enough and are under enough pressure already. Why take away the stress reliever? We are under enough pressure!! Before long we (the Marine's, soldiers, airman, seaman, etc) aren't going to be allowed to shoot rifles because of our 2nd amendment rights being revoked!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Submarine duty is voluntary, isn't it? So is military service last I looked. I browsed the report, and really don't have an opinion one way or the other, I don't smoke. I will say that back in the "old days" sailors got a "rum ration" for many of the same reasons cited here it was eliminated for also impacting readiness. Then let's not forget beards that were allowed in the Navy up till 1983 or so I think, then not...now what the heck smoking does to "impact readiness" I have no idea. However after reading up on it, I don't think anything is going to change really other than maybe increased restrictions as to where and when you can smoke. But I do understand the reports medical issues cited where a soldier that smokes overtime is less able to breath and looses stamina faster than those that do not. Does then that soldiers addiction, because it is an addiction, put the lives of others at risk? I don't think that's an issue but the medical researchers seem to think so. Guess we'll see what the SecDef does with this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicShelby Posted July 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 So is military service last I looked. Oh absolutely!! You just... CAN'T smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Cmon Its not Obama doing it :happy feet: Its Bushes fault. Its just starting to get good. Your President only has so many days to shove all this down R throats. Actually the research project was started under Bush! LOL...but hey neither has anything to do with it it's just a research project and a recommendation. It's now up to the Bush appointed SecDef to decide. Look at this way...Obama smokes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 So is military service last I looked. I browsed the report, and really don't have an opinion one way or the other, I don't smoke. I will say that back in the "old days" sailors got a "rum ration" for many of the same reasons cited here it was eliminated for also impacting readiness. Then let's not forget beards that were allowed in the Navy up till 1983 or so I think, then not...now what the heck smoking does to "impact readiness" I have no idea. However after reading up on it, I don't think anything is going to change really other than maybe increased restrictions as to where and when you can smoke. But I do understand the reports medical issues cited where a soldier that smokes overtime is less able to breath and looses stamina faster than those that do not. Does then that soldiers addiction, because it is an addiction, put the lives of others at risk? I don't think that's an issue but the medical researchers seem to think so. Guess we'll see what the SecDef does with this one! My point was that they were volunteering to go into a smoke free environment when signing up for submarine service whereas the general military have not volunteered to go into a smoke free environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hawkins Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 So is military service last I looked. I browsed the report, and really don't have an opinion one way or the other, I don't smoke. I will say that back in the "old days" sailors got a "rum ration" for many of the same reasons cited here it was eliminated for also impacting readiness. Then let's not forget beards that were allowed in the Navy up till 1983 or so I think, then not...now what the heck smoking does to "impact readiness" I have no idea. However after reading up on it, I don't think anything is going to change really other than maybe increased restrictions as to where and when you can smoke. But I do understand the reports medical issues cited where a soldier that smokes overtime is less able to breath and looses stamina faster than those that do not. Does then that soldiers addiction, because it is an addiction, put the lives of others at risk? I don't think that's an issue but the medical researchers seem to think so. Guess we'll see what the SecDef does with this one! Have you ever heard a Smoker in the Morning...........they sound like they are hacking up a Lung or two. Try hiding in the Bushes while hacking up a Lung.......You would be shot with Friendly Fire for sure................. True...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpodner Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 The “pussification” of the military has accelerated in the last few years. When I came in, 1984, most SGT/E5 team leaders and above were Viet Nam vets. They trained their people hard and we played hard. We went to the field for at least a month every quarter, we trained like animals and when we came in we partied like animals. The standard break announcement was “smoke ‘em if you got ‘em”! Usually on the last day in the field there was a big beer bash and BBQ. If someone got of control, their team leader would take care of it, usually in the wood line. Men were treated like men and they acted like it. Hell, they had strippers the clubs on base back then. Then all of the sudden tough, realistic training was too tough. They chased the strippers out of the clubs on post because someone’s wife got offended. Stress cards were issued incase someone’s feeling got hurt. It was OK to be a butt pirate as long as you didn’t get caught or tell someone. They cracked down on drinking and put MPs outside the clubs and then wondered why the clubs weren’t making money anymore. Now tobacco is the next thing to go because it’s dangerous. We’ll no shit, Sherlock!! Most things people do in the military are dangerous. Last time I checked lead is dangerous too. Maybe we can get our enemies to shoot marshmallow sparkle bullets so we don’t get hurt…. Yes, I was in the Infantry for 11 years and have been a scout pilot for the last 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 The “pussification” of the military has accelerated in the last few years. When I came in, 1984, most SGT/E5 team leaders and above were Viet Nam vets. They trained their people hard and we played hard. We went to the field for at least a month every quarter, we trained like animals and when we came in we partied like animals. The standard break announcement was “smoke ‘em if you got ‘em”! Usually on the last day in the field there was a big beer bash and BBQ. If someone got of control, their team leader would take care of it, usually in the wood line. Men were treated like men and they acted like it. Hell, they had strippers the clubs on base back then. Then all of the sudden tough, realistic training was too tough. They chased the strippers out of the clubs on post because someone’s wife got offended. Stress cards were issued incase someone’s feeling got hurt. It was OK to be a butt pirate as long as you didn’t get caught or tell someone. They cracked down on drinking and put MPs outside the clubs and then wondered why the clubs weren’t making money anymore. Now tobacco is the next thing to go because it’s dangerous. We’ll no shit, Sherlock!! Most things people do in the military are dangerous. Last time I checked lead is dangerous too. Maybe we can get our enemies to shoot marshmallow sparkle bullets so we don’t get hurt…. Yes, I was in the Infantry for 11 years and have been a scout pilot for the last 14. I don't remember the military that I served in, also since 1984, measuring men, or the value of other service members, by the number of drinks they drank or the number of strippers they threw hard earned dollar bills at. Nor did we use "wood lines" to "take care of it" nor did we "party like animals". We're soldiers and sailors that, like those that serve today, carry on the finest traditions of the service in respect to one another and to the uniform we wore. I wouldn't characterize those in harms way today in Iraq and Afghanistan as part of some "pussification" military unit. They are brave men and women that have put their lives on the line often for longer than many of those that served in almost any other war. Hey, feel free to disagree with the politics and the DOD policies but don't do so on the backs of those that are serving today or glorify activities that I personally feel bring discredit to the military as an institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odgreen001 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I also served in the military for 20 years. Went to basic in 1978 at Ft. Jackson, SC. Was in the first class (at least at Ft. Jackson) that had a female platoon in the company. We had a medical hold over and he said that the standards had been lowered and that training wasn't as hard, when compared to what he'd been through the previous cycle w/no females. I too remember beer machines in the day rooms, dancers in the clubs...a LOT of dope smoking and drinking. You were also allowed a beer at lunch. Many of my NCOs were Vietnam vets. For me too, the word was "smokem if you gotem". However, in the field smoking at night, if allowed, was down so that light discipline was maintaiined...if you broke it, then you got in trouble. Many, like myself, didn't worry about it because of smokeless tobacco. Then in the early 80s they started cracking down on drugs and alcohol...which I think was a good thing. I enjoyed my time...6 years infantry (82nd and 2nd Inf Div), 13 years SF (1 SFG) and 1 year of language training in Monterey, CA. It pisses me off that the government would try to impose a smoking ban on our guys. Yes it is a volunteer Army, but I know from experience, the combat arms guys bust their @$$es off in the field. If a smoke helps them unwind, then let them smoke...as long as it doesn't jeopardise the mission. If they want to have a fricken beer, let them have it...just ensure that it is in a controlled environment and won't impact a mission if someone is on standby. Last I looked, smoking is NOT illegal, nor is drinking. Why in the world would you bar these guys from some small vice? I've always been of the opinion, that if someone volunteers to put his life on the line, then he/she should be allowed to make their own decisions on whether they want to light up or take a drink. All of us know that we should be responsible for our actions, and should be ready to take the punishment if we screw up. Most guys understand this and abide by it, but you always have a few who don't. The government is already tooooo damned involved in our lives...we don't need them telling us everything we can and can't do. I say less government and leave our guys the hell alone. I also say, gays / lesbians, there is no place for you in the military. Don't ask, don't tell....don't even enlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odgreen001 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I don't remember the military that I served in, also since 1984, measuring men, or the value of other service members, by the number of drinks they drank or the number of strippers they threw hard earned dollar bills at. Nor did we use "wood lines" to "take care of it" nor did we "party like animals". We're soldiers and sailors that, like those that serve today, carry on the finest traditions of the service in respect to one another and to the uniform we wore. I wouldn't characterize those in harms way today in Iraq and Afghanistan as part of some "pussification" military unit. They are brave men and women that have put their lives on the line often for longer than many of those that served in almost any other war. Hey, feel free to disagree with the politics and the DOD policies but don't do so on the backs of those that are serving today or glorify activities that I personally feel bring discredit to the military as an institution. I don't think he meant that the military has become pussys. What I think he meant to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that many things have changed over the years. I definitely think our guys are better trained, however, some of the stuff I saw changes to that I might call "pussification" are: 1. The stupid fricken stress cards. They weren't in when I was, but they are today. This is unbelivably outrageous. Hold on sarge, let me get my stress card out...nope sorry, can't do that, I'm too stressed. In my time, while they most likely wouldn't be taken to the tree line, you can bet your @$$ theat something would be done, and most likely the soldier would have done what he was told and then receive some type of punishment that didn't involve UCMJ action. You know, sometimes you just have to be put through a shitty time so you come out tougher...there's no two ways about it. 2. The military, like the civilian world is becoming too politically correct. The military does not and should not have to worry about being politically correct. For those of you that have served w/woman...oh, they get to go back in to take showers because they can't be stinking up the place w/their old rags? Or they get tents / cots, but the guys don't? That's just BS. If your going to serve, put up w/the same crap. Same can be said for the REMFS. 3. Standards were lowered. For example, before I got out (38 years old), I was expected to do better on my PT test then the 18 year old that was just coming in. Swim test for SF was removed, so we could allow minorities a better chance to get in. Take that any way you like, I don't give a crap. GT scores lowered to get into SF...and this was back in the mid to late 90s. There are other things, but I won't take up more space. Believe it, political correctness and a lowering of some standards have taken place. That said, I still believe that the training our guys get is the best in the world and that's why we have the best military. However, times are a changing and Obama is not helping. Worse economy, less training = not so well trained military or equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07-2937 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 FLAME ON BUT DO IT WITH RESPECT seems like im one of the few that agree with the ban.... 22.5 years 6 deployments to the middle east and "other places"... Has anyone been to Angola?... While at the academy did I want to sit next to someone that smells like an ashtray Hell no!!! I choose to be in a smoke free enviroment but unfortunately with 2nd hand smoke that is often impossible!! Smokers take breaks more often are sic more often and suffer from withdrawal during contingencies become irritable and edgy its a proven medical fact... I dont smoke never did. I do drink and the only one it effects is me can you say that about smoking?? The Smokers of today are not to blame nor is it a symptom of the pussification Smoking is a crutch Nobody needs a smoke and nobody needs to drink its about wants and desires Not addiction The military sells cigs @ discount pricing then expects smokers to quit. So the ambiguity stays WTF... Military service is a privilege requiring a sense of DUTY HONOR and Bravery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 FLAME ON BUT DO IT WITH RESPECT seems like im one of the few that agree with the ban.... 22.5 years 6 deployments to the middle east and "other places"... Has anyone been to Angola?... While at the academy did I want to sit next to someone that smells like an ashtray Hell no!!! I choose to be in a smoke free enviroment but unfortunately with 2nd hand smoke that is often impossible!! Smokers take breaks more often are sic more often and suffer from withdrawal during contingencies become irritable and edgy its a proven medical fact... I dont smoke never did. I do drink and the only one it effects is me can you say that about smoking?? The Smokers of today are not to blame nor is it a symptom of the pussification Smoking is a crutch Nobody needs a smoke and nobody needs to drink its about wants and desires Not addiction The military sells cigs @ discount pricing then expects smokers to quit. So the ambiguity stays WTF... Military service is a privilege requiring a sense of DUTY HONOR and Bravery... I smoke but don't drink. Have you ever sat next to a guy that smells like stale beer? I see people sick from work a LOT because they're hung over. Do I think the military should ban it's service-members the "right" to drink off-duty if they want? H3LL NO!!!! I also think Military Service is not a priviledge. It is a duty that some people feel and respond to, and others don't. Dan USMC '78-82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I smoke but don't drink. Have you ever sat next to a guy that smells like stale beer? I see people sick from work a LOT because they're hung over. Do I think the military should ban it's service-members the "right" to drink off-duty if they want? H3LL NO!!!! I also think Military Service is not a priviledge. It is a duty that some people feel and respond to, and others don't. Dan USMC '78-82 Semper Fi, Dan! :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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