69dejavue Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 President Barrack Obama said in Turkey : "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values." Do you know the Preamble for your state? . . Be sure to read the message at the bottom of page which is the real subject of this forward! Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution.. Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land. Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona , grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution... Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government... California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom... Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe... Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy. Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences... Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution... Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution... Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine Guidance .... Establish this Constitution. Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.. Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors. Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government. Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the St ate of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution. Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution. Kentucky 1891, Preamble... We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties.. Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy. Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction. Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty... Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution. Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings: Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work. Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution... Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution .. Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution. Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution... New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors. New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty.. New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings. North Carolina 1868, Preamble.. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those... North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain... Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common. Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2.. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance.... Rhode Island 1842, Preamble.. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing... South Carolina , 1778, Preamble. We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution. South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ... Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III.. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience.... Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God. Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution. Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man .. Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI. Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God .. Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility... Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution... After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, just MAYBE. the ACLU, the out-of-control federal courts, and president Obama are wrong! (Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.) Maybe we should tell president Obama to "Speak for yourself" !?!?!? Fact: "the separation of church and state" is not in the Declaration of Independence, The U.S. constitution, or any of its' amendments, or The Bill of Rights. Where did the phrase come from? From a personal letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Organization in 1802. The personal letter written to the religious group, was clearly referring to keeping religion free from the government, not keeping government free from the influence of religion. Don't believe it? See: http://www.jesusuncensored.com/myth.html "In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed.. .No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people." - Preface - Noah Webster, author of Webster's dictionary, 1828. GOD BLESS AMERICA! WHY DOESN'T OBAMA GET IT?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I'm probably going to regret this but.... The word god is a title not a name. If the name of the Judeo-Christian god Yahweh (Jehovah) were invoked then your argumnet would be valid. Instead the preambles refer to a generality which is understood to reference the Christian God. Other religions name their god's (Allah, Vishnu, etc.). In America we use a title. As much as it nauseates me to say this, in a sense Obama is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I'm probably going to regret this but.... The word god is a title not a name. If the name of the Judeo-Christian god Yahweh (Jehovah) were invoked then your argumnet would be valid. Instead the preambles refer to a generality which is understood to reference the Christian God. Other religions name their god's (Allah, Vishnu, etc.). In America we use a title. As much as it nauseates me to say this, in a sense Obama is correct. Sorry, painfully, I would have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hawkins Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 It looks like Louisiana 1921, Preamble is the newest of the Preambles.................................. I have a DUMB Question (please take it easy on me)......... Just how many Religions did we know about (BEFORE 1922) where GOD was NOT used but instead another Name was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RStangsOC Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 It looks like Louisiana 1921, Preamble is the newest of the Preambles.................................. I have a DUMB Question (please take it easy on me)......... Just how many Religions did we know about (BEFORE 1922) where GOD was NOT used but instead another Name was? Boy - I dont think thats a dumb question at all - excellent question if ya ask me. Will be interesting to see thoughts on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Boy - I dont think thats a dumb question at all - excellent question if ya ask me. Will be interesting to see thoughts on this one I believe it is safe to say that every religion sans the worshipping of Mustangs ACTUALLY PRE-DATES 1922! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RStangsOC Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I believe it is safe to say that every religion sans the worshipping of Mustangs ACTUALLY PRE-DATES 1922! Scientology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hawkins Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I believe it is safe to say that every religion sans the worshipping of Mustangs ACTUALLY PRE-DATES 1922! YES, I know...........BUT like I asked in my Post: Just how many Religions did WE know about (BEFORE 1922) where GOD was NOT used but instead another Name was? When those Preambles were writen..........Did the People of the USA know that there was a Religion that worships Cows? Did they know that a Country called their God Ala? It is not like there was the Internet or Globle Phone Calls or that many people from other Countries living here (What is now known as Iran, Iraq, etc......) Here, GOD is also used as a Name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Scientology? sorry, that's a cult! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 YES, I know...........BUT like I asked in my Post: Just how many Religions did WE know about (BEFORE 1922) where GOD was NOT used but instead another Name was? When those Preambles were writen..........Did the People of the USA know that there was a Religion that worships Cows? Did they know that a Country called their God Ala? It is not like there was the Internet or Globle Phone Calls or that many people from other Countries living here (What is now known as Iran, Iraq, etc......) Here, GOD is also used as a Name. thats ridiculous........there were newspapers and NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES LIVING HERE????? YEAH, right, only Indians came through Ellis Island! it just took longer to share info and knowledge, you act as if no one knew what was going on in the world. try again...... it says 1922 not 1722! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Here, GOD is also used as a Name. I agree. In America when the capitalized "God" is used it usually refers to the Judeo-Christian God but probably only because "Christianity" was/is the most popular and accepted religion. If you ask one of a different religion who god is, they will have a differing answer. Such is freedom of religion. Each person has the responsibility to take care of their own spirituality and those of us who claim to be Christians need to remember, "You Shall Not Judge". It's just not our place to do so. I can't speak for 1922 or others and do not know the level of education of the US population with regards to other religions. I can say Louisiana was well aware of VooDoo which, as far as their god's go, is closely integrated with Catholicism. Of course that depends on which text you read. Some say Catholocism took the VooDoo gods and made them Christian to help convert the "heathens". To argue in America that America is a "Christian Nation" is easy since we are predominately "Christ" based among all the different religious sect's. But to go abroad and say that we are a Christian Nation in a political sense may be completely different alltogether. We are in a religious war and have been since the murder of Abel. To go to a warring faction and thow Christianity in their face IMO would have been suicide. I have no problem with my Buddist, Hindu, Muslim, Christian or other peaceful neighbors and to claim my religion over theirs is just arrogance. Most religions are based on love and peace toward your neighbor so those that adhere to these principles and treat their fellow man with respect and dignity regardless of their religion, are welcome in my book. It is not my place to judge them. Some might argue "America celebrates Christian holidays". Really? Investigate them and then tell me that. Christmas is as much of a religious melting pot as the United States itself. What do eggs and a bunny have to do with the resurection of Christ? It doesn't but I'll give you a hint, fertility ritual. Those who think they are put here to be judge, jury and excutioner based on what a "prophet" or other "leader" supposidly told them however long ago, or who believe it is their duty to opress others while using thier religious beliefs, need to dealt with harshly. Of course this is just my opinion. I don't mean it hatefully or any other way. Also, just a little history, the name of God was actually abandoned by the Jewish religious leaders because they were afraid it might be used incorrectly. That is why we say "God" these days instead of Jehovah or Yahwah and to be honest, we are not even sure that is correct since the only references to God's name consists of 4 letters, YHWH. It's referred to as the Tetragrammaton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton It would be the same as if 5000 years form now a word in a book read BLDG. Today we would probably read "building" but future generations might see something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mywickedshelby Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I agree. In America when the capitalized "God" is used it usually refers to the Judeo-Christian God but probably only because "Christianity" was/is the most popular and accepted religion. If you ask one of a different religion who god is, they will have a differing answer. Such is freedom of religion. Each person has the responsibility to take care of their own spirituality and those of us who claim to be Christians need to remember, "You Shall Not Judge". It's just not our place to do so. I can't speak for 1922 or others and do not know the level of education of the US population with regards to other religions. I can say Louisiana was well aware of VooDoo which, as far as their god's go, is closely integrated with Catholicism. Of course that depends on which text you read. Some say Catholocism took the VooDoo gods and made them Christian to help convert the "heathens". To argue in America that America is a "Christian Nation" is easy since we are predominately "Christ" based among all the different religious sect's. But to go abroad and say that we are a Christian Nation in a political sense may be completely different alltogether. We are in a religious war and have been since the murder of Abel. To go to a warring faction and thow Christianity in their face IMO would have been suicide. I have no problem with my Buddist, Hindu, Muslim, Christian or other peaceful neighbors and to claim my religion over theirs is just arrogance. Most religions are based on love and peace toward your neighbor so those that adhere to these principles and treat their fellow man with respect and dignity regardless of their religion, are welcome in my book. It is not my place to judge them. Some might argue "America celebrates Christian holidays". Really? Investigate them and then tell me that. Christmas is as much of a religious melting pot as the United States itself. What do eggs and a bunny have to do with the resurection of Christ? It doesn't but I'll give you a hint, fertility ritual. Those who think they are put here to be judge, jury and excutioner based on what a "prophet" or other "leader" supposidly told them however long ago, or who believe it is their duty to opress others while using thier religious beliefs, need to dealt with harshly. Of course this is just my opinion. I don't mean it hatefully or any other way. Also, just a little history, the name of God was actually abandoned by the Jewish religious leaders because they were afraid it might be used incorrectly. That is why we say "God" these days instead of Jehovah or Yahwah and to be honest, we are not even sure that is correct since the only references to God's name consists of 4 letters, YHWH. It's referred to as the Tetragrammaton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton It would be the same as if 5000 years form now a word in a book read BLDG. Today we would probably read "building" but future generations might see something else. I was wondering when you would come to my aid.......thank you B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFBLUE Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Many of the founding fathers were deists rather than Christians Deism became prominent in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in the United Kingdom, France, United States and Ireland, mostly among those raised as Christians who found they could not believe in either a triune God, the divinity of Jesus, miracles, or the inerrancy of scriptures, but who did believe in one god. Deism in the United States In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of separation of church and state, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters, and the principle of religious freedom expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence. Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, John Adams, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen [33] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe). Elihu Palmer (1764-1806) wrote the "Bible" of American deism in his Principles of Nature (1801) and attempted to organize deism by forming the "Deistical Society of New York." Currently[update] there is an ongoing controversy in the United States over whether or not the country was founded as a "Christian nation" based on Judeo-Christian ideals. This has spawned a subsidiary controversy over whether the Founding Fathers were Christians, deists, or something in between.[34] [35] Particularly heated is the debate over the beliefs of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington. As to whether George Washington was a deist, see this Washington Post book review of two books on the subject. For Jefferson's deism, see the article Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist? by Gene Garman (2001).[36] For Franklin, see Kerry S. Walters, Benjamin Franklin and His Gods (University of Illinois Press, 1999) and also an excerpt from the article Benjamin Franklin: An American Life by Walter Isaacson.[37] However, Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist. My arguments perverted some others, particularly Collins and Ralph; but each of them having afterwards wrong'd me greatly without the least compunction, and recollecting Keith's conduct towards me (who was another freethinker) and my own towards Vernon and Miss Read, which at times gave me great trouble, I began to suspect that this doctrine, tho' it might be true, was not very useful."[38] [39] For his part, Thomas Jefferson is perhaps one of the Founding Fathers with the most outspoken of Deist tendencies, though he more often referred to himself as a Unitarian. In particular, his treatment of the Biblical gospels which he titled The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth, but which subsequently became more commonly known as the Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Many of the founding fathers were deists rather than Christians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I'm probably going to regret this but.... The word god is a title not a name. If the name of the Judeo-Christian god Yahweh (Jehovah) were invoked then your argumnet would be valid. Instead the preambles refer to a generality which is understood to reference the Christian God. Other religions name their god's (Allah, Vishnu, etc.). In America we use a title. As much as it nauseates me to say this, in a sense Obama is correct. Stump; I know what you are saying but will disagree somewhat. Obama, and the other secular progressives, deny any form of religion in our lives and our government. Regardless of the name of the religion. It is not that we are not a nation of Christians or Muslims, or Jews. Rather it is we do not recognize religion and are anti-religion. I agree we should not give preference to one religion over another and there should be freedom of religion, within reason. But we should not be discriminated against because of our religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I'm probably going to regret this but.... The word god is a title not a name. If the name of the Judeo-Christian god Yahweh (Jehovah) were invoked then your argumnet would be valid. Instead the preambles refer to a generality which is understood to reference the Christian God. Other religions name their god's (Allah, Vishnu, etc.). In America we use a title. As much as it nauseates me to say this, in a sense Obama is correct. Stump, I also think that when the founding fathers referred to God they referred to their Christian God as they did not recognize other religions. They were Christians and admitteldly found this country on Christian beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportscars Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I agree with MUCH of what has been said here. I also disagree with some of it, specifically the part about America (the colonies) being founded as a Christian nation. To quote the Mayflower Compact: 'Having undertaken, for the Glory of God and the advancement of the Christian Faith and honor of our King and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia'. I don't know how you can conclude else from that. Did things change at some point later (after the war of independence)? Sure, but that doesn't change one of the the original purposes for colonizing this continent. On another rant, this so called "seperation of Church and State" has gotten way out of hand. Even if you dispute the Christian aspect of it, it is becoming absurd in its invocation. I can list MANY, MANY court cases, resolutions, ordinances and laws that SUPPORT God and/or religion in America. I understand that many people out there have a dislike for "organized Religion" but frankly I am growing weary of being slammed or attacked because I mention God in a sentance or post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahmann Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 It looks like Louisiana 1921, Preamble is the newest of the Preambles.................................. I have a DUMB Question (please take it easy on me)......... Just how many Religions did we know about (BEFORE 1922) where GOD was NOT used but instead another Name was? Fair question... (Alaska and Hawaii have newer preambles than Louisiana FYI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Stump, I also think that when the founding fathers referred to God they referred to their Christian God as they did not recognize other religions. They were Christians and admittedly found this country on Christian beliefs. Just going from reasoning here, no way to back this up mind you- The men who founded this country were of an extraordinary caliber coming from a land and time of tyranny and oppression. I do not think they would have written in "freedom of Religion" if they had a selfish goal, one which supported their belief system. That would have been extremely hypocritical and would have been a poison from within threatening to undo all they were trying to accomplish. The Constitution of the U.S. had to be pure and honest, without doubt, for it to work. I will not deny some were probably religious but I do not think in their time of extreme stress and uncertainty - far more then anything we could feel now since we live in the fruits of their labor, although I do not know for how much longer - they would have done anything which would have undermined their goal. Although probably the prominent religion of the time, to promote Christianity over other religions, excluding other peoples from America would have been foolish when trying to found a nation. Alas, I am not a scholar of the time so I can not say with certainty. I'm just thinking what I would do if I were in their shoes. A couple of other things, there was a Jewish population in the early colonies before the Dec. of Ind. was even though of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_th..._South_Carolina. This is also interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Stat...ligious_Freedom Yes it's WIKI but it's good enough for 10pm at night..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 We are a nation that embraces, and was founded on, Judeao Christian values, that does not make us a Chritstian Nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportscars Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 We are a nation that embraces, and was founded on, Judeao Christian values, that does not make us a Chritstian Nation. I guess that depends on your definition of "Christian Nation". Does every single person need to be Christian for it to be a Christian Nation? A majority (51%)? Two thirds or seventy five percent? Or does Christianity need to be the "official" religion to be considered a Christian Nation. It depends on your definition. Myself, I consider us to be a Christian Nation. Mostly because Christianity is the dominate religion. It is the majority. Others with a different definition or a different way of looking at things could very well have different ideas about it. Great thing about America - we are all entitled to our opinions, however wrong they may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertlane Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I too have my beliefs but they are mine. I don't expect everyone to believe or embrace them. If it were up to me, I'd erase religion from government all together - currency and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution Aliens dude...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hawkins Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I agree with MUCH of what has been said here. I also disagree with some of it, specifically the part about America (the colonies) being founded as a Christian nation. To quote the Mayflower Compact: 'Having undertaken, for the Glory of God and the advancement of the Christian Faith and honor of our King and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia'. I don't know how you can conclude else from that. Did things change at some point later (after the war of independence)? Sure, but that doesn't change one of the the original purposes for colonizing this continent. On another rant, this so called "seperation of Church and State" has gotten way out of hand. Even if you dispute the Christian aspect of it, it is becoming absurd in its invocation. I can list MANY, MANY court cases, resolutions, ordinances and laws that SUPPORT God and/or religion in America. I understand that many people out there have a dislike for "organized Religion" but frankly I am growing weary of being slammed or attacked because I mention God in a sentance or post. Speaking of Courts: I remember being Sworn in when I was sueing my Insurance Company, I was asked: "Do you solomly swear to tell the Truth and nothing but the Truth so help you GOD?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 We are a nation that embraces, and was founded on, Judeao Christian values, that does not make us a Chritstian Nation. Concur. I believe the majority of Americans are Christian but we should not be a theocracy and run the country according to Christian Laws etc. However, my only concern is when it is obvious that the country was established with respect to Judeo Christian beliefs that we should not now be persecuted for being a Christian. Or discriminated against. People should have the right to have their religion, or lack thereof. People should not be discriminated against for being religious unless their religion harms others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Concur. I believe the majority of Americans are Christian but we should not be a theocracy and run the country according to Christian Laws etc. However, my only concern is when it is obvious that the country was established with respect to Judeo Christian beliefs that we should not now be persecuted for being a Christian. Or discriminated against. People should have the right to have their religion, or lack thereof. People should not be discriminated against for being religious unless their religion harms others. There will always be discrimination and there will always be persecution for beliefs, ideals, thoughts and etc. Heck, even me (more of a Diest alignment) and my Mom (I'm not sure but I would say Charasmatic/make up your own rules as you go along?) used to get in arguments all the time, so we do not discuss religion. That is just free thought. BTW, my background is extremely religious and painfully strict. Persecution on the other hand is a fine line. At what point does it cross from free speech into persecution? This is one reason why government and religion can not mingle. If someone says "you are not very smart for thinking there is a creator", is that persecution, free speech or free thought/will? My mother told me that I was not doing God's will and at one time asked God to punish me because I made her mad. Is that considered persecution? I remember when I was younger having a "doomsday prophet" come to our church and show us a fictional film of what it will be like in the "end times". I plainly remember Guillotine cars driving around and anyone not having the mark of the beast on their hand or forehead was either forced to get the tattoo or get their head cut off. I would consider that persecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT/SC#0471 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 There will always be discrimination and there will always be persecution for beliefs, ideals, thoughts and etc. Heck, even me (more of a Diest alignment) and my Mom (I'm not sure but I would say Charasmatic/make up your own rules as you go along?) used to get in arguments all the time, so we do not discuss religion. That is just free thought.BTW, my background is extremely religious and painfully strict. Persecution on the other hand is a fine line. At what point does it cross from free speech into persecution? This is one reason why government and religion can not mingle. If someone says "you are not very smart for thinking there is a creator", is that persecution, free speech or free thought/will? My mother told me that I was not doing God's will and at one time asked God to punish me because I made her mad. Is that considered persecution? I remember when I was younger having a "doomsday prophet" come to our church and show us a fictional film of what it will be like in the "end times". I plainly remember Guillotine cars driving around and anyone not having the mark of the beast on their hand or forehead was either forced to get the tattoo or get their head cut off. I would consider that persecution. Haha Stump, you brought back a great memory. So I was into dirtbikes as a kid and I lived near a sand dune riding area. I had some older friends who I used to ride with and my dad let one of the 16 year old guys use his old truck to take us all riding...(old man was cool, and we were too)... So I had a huge crush on this girl at my school... I think it was Seventh grade or so...and she invited me to a movie at her church...I was there...so we watch this flick about the Rapture and all the good people of God and this religion leaving the Earth and just vanishing...leaving us heathens here forever. The next day my buddies and I went riding at the dune, and no one was there but us, I was tripping out...told my friends and they laughed and were like well lets unload the bikes...we got that done just in time for the police helicopter to fly overhead and tell us that the riding area was illegal and closed... But for a minute there I was trippin out...haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportscars Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You can not completely seperate religion (church) from Government (state). If you did then churches would not have to pay property taxes. Police and Fire would not have to respond to emergencies at places of worship. No more police officer funerals in churches. Places of worship would become islands on their own, not bound by the rules and laws of the rest of the country. Criminals could indeed declare "sanctuary" in a church and not be arrested. Read Justice William O. Douglas' writing in Zorach v. Clauson, 343 U.S. 306 (1952). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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