A Question to all my liberal Friends

[svttim]

A short while back, we had a murder here where I live. Unknown to most at the time, it was particularly grusome. A young lady had her throat cut to the point she was almost decapitated. In searching for a suspect, two local establishments were searched and thier employees questions. Most of the employees were illegal and, were being paid cash. They have arrsted a suspect. He too was illegal. He had gone to high school here, used our services for free and, now it appears he has killed. Please, tell me again why these people are allowed to stay here?

[DDT]

Buisiness exploytation of cheap labor my friend..........

 

I am sure you agree if we enforced our immagration laws, US society would be "MILES AHEAD"!!!!!!

[svttim]

Buisiness exploytation of cheap labor my friend..........

 

I am sure you agree if we enforced our immagration laws, US society would be "MILES AHEAD"!!!!!!

 

 

I agree. Why doesnt buisness see that, while they pay out less in salary, they pay out in taxes to pay for services used. Imagine if your paycheck was tax free.

 

Not to metion the social problems caused

[DDT]

This is a topic I feel most strongly about and the "FREE RIDE" for Illegal Immigrants

flows across both Party lines as buisiness is in bed with the politicians......................

[69dejavue]

This is a topic I feel most strongly about and the "FREE RIDE" for Illegal Immigrants

flows across both Party lines as buisiness is in bed with the politicians......................

 

I can't believe I agree with Poison. It must mean that he has finally seen the conservative light!

[DDT]

"HOLY "!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

A first?????? I will have to think up a good name for you too my friend???????

[kaylan1521]

I too totally agree with all your views but here's another thought to consider.

 

How many people are willing to do the jobs these people do for what they get paid? This too is part of the problem.

To pay "proper" wages the cost of the products will now increase. Similar to the Wal Mart debate where everyone bitches about how little employees get paid yet whenever a consumer needs a product cheap that's where they go shopping.

 

Once again, you are all absolutely right about the illegals and particularily criminals but I'm just trying to play devils advocate here.

[svttim]

I too totally agree with all your views but here's another thought to consider.

 

How many people are willing to do the jobs these people do for what they get paid? This too is part of the problem.

To pay "proper" wages the cost of the products will now increase. Similar to the Wal Mart debate where everyone bitches about how little employees get paid yet whenever a consumer needs a product cheap that's where they go shopping.

 

Once again, you are all absolutely right about the illegals and particularily criminals but I'm just trying to play devils advocate here.

 

 

With the loss of jobs right now, its not as much of an issue as it was even a year ago, but again, we pay for thier schooling, medical care, ect so while some services would cost more, others could go down

[DDT]

The good argument against POST#7 is all the "FREE GOVERNMENT SERVICES" Illegal Immigrants

consume........One of the main reasons that California is now "BANKRUPT"!!!!!!!!!!!

[69dejavue]

The good argument against POST#7 is all the "FREE GOVERNMENT SERVICES" Illegal Immigrants

consume........One of the main reasons that California is now "BANKRUPT"!!!!!!!!!!!

 

OH NO!!!!!! Twice in one night and on the same thread!!!!!!! Poison is starting to see the conservative light! Halleluia!!!!!

[69dejavue]

The good argument against POST#7 is all the "FREE GOVERNMENT SERVICES" Illegal Immigrants

consume........One of the main reasons that California is now "BANKRUPT"!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And the terminator governor wants to ask for a federal bail out. That is where I really draw the line. Why should the citizens of one state bail out another when that first state failed to either cut services or raise taxes.

[DDT]

It won't be the first time and probably not the last.............

 

And thats Gov. Arnold Weinersnitzel.......A proud "TWO FACE REPUBLICAN HACK"!!!!!!!!!

[kaylan1521]

With the loss of jobs right now, its not as much of an issue as it was even a year ago, but again, we pay for thier schooling, medical care, ect so while some services would cost more, others could go down

 

 

The good argument against POST#7 is all the "FREE GOVERNMENT SERVICES" Illegal Immigrants

consume........One of the main reasons that California is now "BANKRUPT"!!!!!!!!!!!

Very good points guys.

 

Now all we would have to do is convince the government run services to take the money they save and inject it back into the low paying jobs to bring up the minimum wages to attract residents that didn't previously want to do those jobs. It's a pipedream sadly because we all know it wouldn't happen.

 

Once again I totally agree with you guys as we have they very same issues up here in Canada but as I said there's always the flip side.

[19Maddog64]

How many people are willing to do the jobs these people do for what they get paid? This too is part of the problem.

To pay "proper" wages the cost of the products will now increase. Similar to the Wal Mart debate where everyone bitches about how little employees get paid yet whenever a consumer needs a product cheap that's where they go shopping.

 

Once again, you are all absolutely right about the illegals and particularily criminals but I'm just trying to play devils advocate here.

 

In these times I don't know why companies have to hire people who are in our country ILLEGALLY. I worked so many crappy jobs at minimum wage early in my career I have a hard time counting them.

 

I retired from the S.C. National Guard but I started full time Army as an enlisted mechanic and then was accepted into Warrant Officer Flight Training in the Reserves after leaving active duty. I was lucky to be in the Reserves then the Guard in the '80s and early '90s because there was a lot of money available to get extra duty days and flight time but I still had to work 2 jobs besides to make ends meet. As a young pilot commercial jobs (at the time) were hard to get.

 

I did every menial job you can imagine to make ends meet even though I had Commercial Licenses for airplanes and helicopters and Instructor ratings and applied for every descent flying job I could. I did this for many years before getting a decent flying job that paid well and had quality well maintained aircraft (I was extremely picky about what I flew). I flew for the guard and eventually got a job as Chief Pilot for the S.C. Department of Natural Resources until I retired on disability (3 broken vertabrae and 3 ruptured disk in an accident at work).

 

I know this is a long story to make a point but I have never understood why there are jobs that Americans "will not do"! I retired after years of busting my butt to do what I wanted to do. To get there I cleaned toilets, dug ditches for cable companies, was a "fetch it" for a logging company, at night cleaned a fish processing plant and any other job to make ends meet and pay my bills and not accumulate DEBT for several years.

 

There are enough Americans who can do these jobs so we do not need ILLEGALS. There are enough laws on the books to handle the law breakers (employee and employer) although I believe we need more enforcers and we need "enlightened" government officials to get out of the way so these ILLEGALS can be removed and sent home. Too many have it too easy when they can say "I won't do that job because it is beneath me" or "I won't work 60 hours a week to meet my obligations". Are people that special? That elite? Maybe a higher species of human?

 

These are big reasons why we have so many ILLEGALS here that no one has a clue where they came from or what their background is. Do I believe in LEGAL immigration and people here on some type of trackable work permit? Yes. In this day and age just anyone can not come here and not be tracked or have a background check done on them.

 

It is an extreme tragedy when someone is murdered. It is much worse when done by someone who is not supposed to be here especially when much of it could be prevented. If our elected officials would make border security, who companies hire, why are ILLEGALS getting free medical care and why are their children going to our schools a HIGHER PRIORITY! Every year I have to take documentation to my childrens school to prove where we live to ensure they are in the correct district. I think in California if you can't prove who you are your children go to the front of the privelege line. They spend several BILLION DOLLARS on programs for ILLEGALS every year who do not pay into the system and the government of that state is threatening to release state prisoners because they are so deep in DEBT. Anyway...........DEBT is a subject for another rant another day.

 

I needed a good rant. Glad too know this subject bothers someone besides me. God help our children and grandchildren and on and on...............

[ilmor]

I wonder how many American jobs could be SAVED or CREATED if not for illegal immigrants?

 

I wonder how many dollars in taxes could be saved if not for illegal immigrants?

 

Don't the wants and needs of LEGAL citizens and taxpayers count for anything in this issue?

 

If these people don't like the way things are in their country, and don't want to live here as legal citizens, why don't they do something about their OWN situation in THEIR country instead of running over here (illegally) and pan-handling ours?

 

The entire situation is so ludicrous and unnecessary is makes me want to throw up. Don't count on the liberals to do anything about it, however - they are looking at all these illegals as FUTURE VOTES.

[David Hawkins]

NOW.....what was done to the Business for Hiring the Illegals? Was their License pulled? Were they Fined? Were the rest of the Illegals rounded up and shipped back? The Government should actually start Cracking Down HARD on the Businesses that Hire Illegals. Just my .02 Cents. Oh wait, make that .05 Cents, I forgot about the Obama Tax.

[stump_breaker]

How many people are willing to do the jobs these people do for what they get paid?

 

I believe this argument is old and busted. I have yet to find someone who will not work because of the pay in fact, I have had guys beg me for work regardless of the pay and I could not accommodate.

 

My first job was mowing yards.

I have cleared off sidewalks.

I have hoed Thrush in a field.

I have shoveled s#it in a dairy barn doing three milkings a day.

I have been a night janitor.

I have dug ditches.

 

Because of this work I am now in a position where I no longer need to do those jobs but don't think in a second if necessity dictated, I wouldn't pick up a shovel or a mop or push mower again.

 

One who is capable of working but will not do so will not eat, or that is the way it should be. If someone will not work because of pride issues, well, the world is probably a better place without them anyway.

 

Coming from a manufacturing environment now, if we got rid of the Illegals at the company I work for, many jobs would be opened up and easily filled by the legal or natural born citizens breaking the whole "they do jobs Americans wont" farce. Presently the illegals make the same amount as the rest which busts the whole "they work for less" argument. With that being said everyone's paperwork is "in order" which absolves the company even though it is known the paperwork is falsified. That is not a battle I can win nor information I can prove.

 

The last "La Migra" (or whatever it's called) scare we had actually closed our paint lines and certain other areas down because so many people ran off the job. When I went to management, not one thing was done about it and most of the people were given their jobs back. I was very bitter about that. If I had guys in my department that had done that, they would have been terminated but at that time I was not in a position to do anything.

[Shlbylvr]

A short while back, we had a murder here where I live. Unknown to most at the time, it was particularly grusome. A young lady had her throat cut to the point she was almost decapitated. In searching for a suspect, two local establishments were searched and thier employees questions. Most of the employees were illegal and, were being paid cash. They have arrsted a suspect. He too was illegal. He had gone to high school here, used our services for free and, now it appears he has killed. Please, tell me again why these people are allowed to stay here?

 

Simply, as a country, the US is trying to be politically correct, to the detriment of our own wellbeing.

[MikeCMM]

A short while back, we had a murder here where I live. Unknown to most at the time, it was particularly grusome. A young lady had her throat cut to the point she was almost decapitated. In searching for a suspect, two local establishments were searched and thier employees questions. Most of the employees were illegal and, were being paid cash. They have arrsted a suspect. He too was illegal. He had gone to high school here, used our services for free and, now it appears he has killed. Please, tell me again why these people are allowed to stay here?

 

I too was shocked when I read about it. I guess that's what the real kick in gut is. The guy was here illegally; taking advantage of the freedoms of this country and to thank the community in which he lived by doing a despicable act that this is beyond reason. Time to start enforcing the laws on the books and have these people removed. You want in? Learn the language and enter legally. Nuff said!

[mywickedshelby]

Any benefit like welfare should be run by an employment service, oh sorry, no check for sitting on your ass, we have an opening in the shit shoveling dept.

Oh, you dont want to shovel shit? OK, no check for you, good luck.......

 

next!

 

And I have done the crappiest most menial jobs to put food on the table, its called responsibility and character.

We dont see that in many here and we have only ourselves to blame for perpetuating a system that doesnt encourage and demand it.

[turnsignaldelete]

The desire to expand the ammount of land on which man and woman stood on,(possessed) began so long ago, that to go back through history, and determine who was 'there', or 'here' first would be a historical, issue, of, 'Biblitical' proportions. Literally.

 

Wars, where to the 'victor' went the , 'Land'.

or just out right purchases, marriages, messages from , 'God', that gave powerful people a reason to take, steal, confiscate the property and material goods, of people, states, country's nations, the 'right' to the land's of the World.

 

The 'illegal immigrants that come across our borders, do the jobs, that whites, have been told are beneath them.

 

Illegal immigrants do the jobs , that Blacks have been taught are, 'in kind' with , 'slavery, and so beneath them.

 

So, WHO, is going to pick the lettuce, the strawberries, and Tomato's, so that some BMW, ego inflated, 'Yuppie' or 'Tree Hugging Volvo driving, Leftie, can sit on their collective Butts, and eat their 'Tofu salads.

 

The Mexican People, are a great part of American History. The Spanish conquered the Aztec Empire in 1521, in fact Spain as of 1530, believed that it owned all Lands that touched the Pacific Ocean.

 

Including the Land owned by American Indians, including what is now, California, Arizonian, New Mexico, Texas, and parts of other a joining 'states,

 

and then 300 years latter, WE the United States took and Purchased it from the Mexicans (Spanish).

 

We need the Mexican People, we need to reform our immigration policies. We have far greater issues to deal with then punishing people who want and do work (which whites,blacks do not want to) and Mexicans, provide for much of the abundance of food and beauty we enjoy in the United States.

[ati]

NOW.....what was done to the Business for Hiring the Illegals? Was their License pulled? Were they Fined? Were the rest of the Illegals rounded up and shipped back? The Government should actually start Cracking Down HARD on the Businesses that Hire Illegals. Just my .02 Cents. Oh wait, make that .05 Cents, I forgot about the Obama Tax.

 

I'm a small business owner and I don't think its the responsibility of us business owners to police job applicants. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't knowingly hire an illegal but how the hell are we suppose to know who's here legal or illegal? Its tuff enough trying to find skilled labor who's willing to work 40+ hrs a week without trying to find out who has a forged SS card? If our government got off their ass and did their jobs properly like protecting our borders and enforcing the immigration laws on the books we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. Maybe they should use the welfare and social service money their spending on illegals to pay for more border guards.

[ati]

The desire to expand the ammount of land on which man and woman stood on,(possessed) began so long ago, that to go back through history, and determine who was 'there', or 'here' first would be a historical, issue, of, 'Biblitical' proportions. Literally.

 

Wars, where to the 'victor' went the , 'Land'.

or just out right purchases, marriages, messages from , 'God', that gave powerful people a reason to take, steal, confiscate the property and material goods, of people, states, country's nations, the 'right' to the land's of the World.

 

The 'illegal immigrants that come across our borders, do the jobs, that whites, have been told are beneath them.

 

Illegal immigrants do the jobs , that Blacks have been taught are, 'in kind' with , 'slavery, and so beneath them.

 

So, WHO, is going to pick the lettuce, the strawberries, and Tomato's, so that some BMW, ego inflated, 'Yuppie' or 'Tree Hugging Volvo driving, Leftie, can sit on their collective Butts, and eat their 'Tofu salads.

 

The Mexican People, are a great part of American History. The Spanish conquered the Aztec Empire in 1521, in fact Spain as of 1530, believed that it owned all Lands that touched the Pacific Ocean.

 

Including the Land owned by American Indians, including what is now, California, Arizonian, New Mexico, Texas, and parts of other a joining 'states,

 

and then 300 years latter, WE the United States took and Purchased it from the Mexicans (Spanish).

 

We need the Mexican People, we need to reform our immigration policies. We have far greater issues to deal with then punishing people who want and do work (which whites,blacks do not want to) and Mexicans, provide for much of the abundance of food and beauty we enjoy in the United States.

 

 

Many years ago my ancestors and maybe yours came to this country for a better life and a new start.

I remember hearing stories about the only jobs they could find were manual labor jobs like digging the subways in New York and Boston by hand. These certainly were not jobs of choice but necessity. They were under paid, over worked, and had no insurance. They were abused and mistreated as workers and as immigrants. Pretty much the same scenario as your Mexicans, only difference was Our ancestors came into this country legally, didn't expect handouts, learned to speak English, educated themselves and became citizens of the USA. They kept their culture but adapted to the American way of life and didn't expect the country to change to accommodate them.

I could go on and on but I'm sure you get my point!

[DDT]

The "GREEDY SLAVE LABOR MENTALITY" is still alive and well exploiting Illegal Immigrants

and is why "UNIONS" good and bad formed in the first place...............

[kaylan1521]

No offence guys but some of you are looking through rose coloured glasses. It's just not as simple as closing the borders. How many of our children will shovel sh!t for minimum wage? Be honest, probably none. How many DeWayne's living in a trailer in the Ozarks wants to leave his porch and cold beer to work for 10-12 hours a day for $80.00?

 

Like 19Maddog64 I did my share of crappy jobs to get to where I am today. My family came to Canada in 1958 to work on the rails and they worked their tails off. They also passed on a good work ethic to us kids. Today I still work 60+ hours a week.

 

I also know what I go through trying to find men to work on certain jobs because it's beneath their talents and pay. The way I see it if you're getting your pay what the hell should you care what you're doing as long as it's in the same field. So, as an employer, what are you supposed to do? Fortunately for me, my guys are real good and I don't have too many issues but I treat them real well and as a result they treat me the same way......for the most part.

 

Enough of that for now. I'll wait and see what kind of responses I get to this. Hopefully they will remain civil. Having said all this I do not condone hiring of illegals.

 

I am curious though, how can illegals get educated, healthcare and social assistance without proof of citizenship in the US. In Canada, if you don't have your card or even if it's expired YOU PAY.

[SNAKE08]

We need the Mexican People, we need to reform our immigration policies. We have far greater issues to deal with then punishing people who want and do work (which whites,blacks do not want to) and Mexicans, provide for much of the abundance of food and beauty we enjoy in the United States.

 

 

 

I don't think this is about if we need the Mexican People ! I think it's about if you are here legal or not regardless of you nationality.

Do you think it's fair for whoever is here illegally to get all the benefits of a legal citizen for FREE ? Better yet why should they get the same benefits and not pay ? Why should they not be sent back to whatever country they come from if they are here illegally ? For that matter why do we have any laws ? Should we not enforce the laws thats on the books ? Where they not put there for the well being of the American Citizens ?

I'm just curious so please help me with this

[MikeCMM]

We need the Mexican People, we need to reform our immigration policies. We have far greater issues to deal with then punishing people who want and do work (which whites,blacks do not want to) and Mexicans, provide for much of the abundance of food and beauty we enjoy in the United States.

 

 

 

I don't think this is about if we need the Mexican People ! I think it's about if you are here legal or not regardless of you nationality.

Do you think it's fair for whoever is here illegally to get all the benefits of a legal citizen for FREE ? Better yet why should they get the same benefits and not pay ? Why should they not be sent back to whatever country they come from if they are here illegally ? For that matter why do we have any laws ? Should we not enforce the laws thats on the books ? Where they not put there for the well being of the American Citizens ?

I'm just curious so please help me with this

 

+1 The issue isn't about if they will work. It's about being here legally. Pulling their load and becoming a CONTRIBUTOR to this nation instead of dumping on it. I'll bring this up again, too. You think this country has issues now? Wait until B.O. tries nationalized health care. Illegals will cause more burden on the taxpayers just like in England. Hope you all like having to foot the bill to raise someone elses child.

[DDT]

+1 The issue isn't about if they will work. It's about being here legally. Pulling their load and becoming a CONTRIBUTOR to this nation instead of dumping on it. I'll bring this up again, too. You think this country has issues now? Wait until B.O. tries nationalized health care. Illegals will cause more burden on the taxpayers just like in England. Hope you all like having to foot the bill to raise someone elses child.

 

That is happening already here in So. Cal. They just go to Emergency to get treatment where

they cannot be turned away...................

[MikeCMM]

That is happening already here in So. Cal. They just go to Emergency to get treatment where

they cannot be turned away...................

 

And that's what is not right. They should be held financially responsible.

[DDT]

And that's what is not right. They should be held financially responsible.

 

No........They should be Deported back to their own country.............