Prosecuting the Bush Administration

[JeffIsHereToo]

So how about Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs invasion? Granted the plan was put in motion when Eisenhower was president but Kennedy got bad intel; went ahead with the operation and we know the outcome of that. Same thing happened to Bush. He got bad intel and reacted to it. For the sake of argument, what would have happened if there was something in Iraq and it was used on U.S. soil? I'm sorry Jeff but with what happened on 9/11 I don't think Bush was willing to roll the dice on this one. Can you honestly blame him? That was a darn tough call. And he took the heat for it.

 

 

I think you've compared Apple's to Oranges. If Kennedy had invaded Cuba and there was no communist regime top be toppled then I'd say that was "bad intel" too. The fact is though it was the idea that a rag-tag bunch of Cuban exiles could get the rest of the population to rise up and over run the Cuban army that was well...wrong. The rational for doing it was right on however the execution was bad. In this case the rational was bad but the first weeks of the battle were well done! Another difference is the way Kennedy handled it. He didn't blame anyone, not the previous administration or the CIA, he accepted the blame...class. Bush? Nope!

 

 

Addressing the issue of the failed Bay of Pigs invasion the President states "There's an old saying that victory has 100 fathers and defeat is an orphan" and that "Further statements, detailed discussions, are not to conceal responsibility because I'm the responsible officer of the Government, there's no question about that…"

 

 

As for any connection to 9/11 there was none and never was one regardless of what Cheney said then. What we need is a government that even in moments of crisis thinks first and shoots later. Much like Kennedy later did in the Cuban missile crisis when people like Nixon and Goldwater were calling for armed confrontation.

[JeffIsHereToo]

Hey Tim. I think I figured out a way to get Jeff to run Road America this summer. I'll invite Monica, and tell Jeff that if he's the fastest in his group, she'll meet him in the hospitality tent.

 

 

You know I do not, or I hope I don't, insult or disparage people for their beliefs and I would ask the same respect in return.

 

Debate the topic not a person's integrity or morals.

 

Thanks!

[MikeCMM]

C'mon Jeff...he was just poking fun at you.

 

I also did find this during the Clinton administration. He too was convinced Hussein had chemical weapons.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/09/15/world/cl...;pagewanted=all

 

I do have a question for you though. Why do you think Bush went ahead and attacked anyway? It sure as heck wasn't because of oil. So why do you think he did. No proof needed. I'm just interested in your opinion.

 

--oops! Wrong button!

[JeffIsHereToo]

I do have a question for you though. Why do you think Bush went ahead and attacked anyway? It sure as heck wasn't because of oil. So why do you think he did. No proof needed. I'm just interested in your opinion.

 

 

I don't know. I'd like to know! Some people believe the President and Cheney had it out for Hussein from day one as a result of Hussein's thwarted assassination plan against the older Bush.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl...line/062793.htm

 

There are still some that think it was about oil but I think that's too simplistic and a red herring. Sadam was going to sell his oil to someone anyway so it was going to enter the market and keep prices low. I honestly can't tell ya...to do that would be like trying to make rational sense of an irrational act at least that's how I see it but I only know what I read and there are a lot smarter people than I that don't agree on this.

[SSGT500]

You know I do not, or I hope I don't, insult or disparage people for their beliefs and I would ask the same respect in return.

 

Debate the topic not a person's integrity or morals.

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff, you're a big enough guy to take a joke. Come on up to Road America and I'll buy you a beer, a brat and a ear of corn. We'll go for a spin on the track. The world looks different at 150 mph.

[MikeCMM]

Jeff, you're a big enough guy to take a joke. Come on up to Road America and I'll buy you a beer, a brat and a ear of corn. We'll go for a spin on the track. The world looks different at 150 mph.

 

+1...Same goes for me, too.

[MikeCMM]

I don't know. I'd like to know! Some people believe the President and Cheney had it out for Hussein from day one as a result of Hussein's thwarted assassination plan against the older Bush.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl...line/062793.htm

 

There are still some that think it was about oil but I think that's too simplistic and a red herring. Sadam was going to sell his oil to someone anyway so it was going to enter the market and keep prices low. I honestly can't tell ya...to do that would be like trying to make rational sense of an irrational act at least that's how I see it but I only know what I read and there are a lot smarter people than I that don't agree on this.

 

I have my theories as well. Now these are my OPINIONS. One was that W Bush wanted to finish what the elder wasn't allowed to do. I seem to recall that in 91 the troops were allowed to go only so far into Iraq and had to stop. Was that a U.N. call? I don't remember. I do know that General Schwarzkopf was irate as hell with that decision. I know the General wanted to go all the way and he did call the turn when he said that we will continue to have issues with Hussein until he is removed. Did W view it that way,too? That is a problem with politics and diplomacy. If you come up short it can leave you with another issue further down the road which was the case here.

 

Another was the intel about the Al Queda camps in Iraq. Bush may have been looking for some payback in regards to 911. And I also will go along with the attempted assassination of George senior. That is a possibility. All of this may have played a roll in his decision. And there was still the question of his plans to try and develope nuclear weapons. Heck, even Clinton knew about that threat and talked about it.

 

Someday the truth will come out. Some will say that now they understand. Others will say it was a foolish gamble. Depends on which side of the fence you're on I guess. All I know is that it is one less threat for Obama to have to deal with. That is a good thing.

[svttim]

You know I do not, or I hope I don't, insult or disparage people for their beliefs and I would ask the same respect in return.

 

Debate the topic not a person's integrity or morals.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Jeff Jeff Jeff, Thats all you talk about with GW. Without knowing the man, you disarage him, call him a liar and ignorant. And I must say, I highly doubt he was disparaging your beliefs, I think it was a lighter moment.

[CobraCrazy]

Jeff Jeff Jeff, Thats all you talk about with GW. Without knowing the man, you disarage him, call him a liar and ignorant. And I must say, I highly doubt he was disparaging your beliefs, I think it was a lighter moment.

One doesn't have to "know" GW to think of him as ignorant and a liar--his record makes it perfectly clear.

[SicShelby]

One doesn't have to "know" GW to think of him as ignorant and a liar--his record makes it perfectly clear.

 

Bush didn't come off as a bright man, that's for sure. BUT, it's not like the guy acted alone the whole time he was in office. He had advisors, like 69dejavue said... At any rate... he had a limited amount of... "characterization."

[MikeCMM]

One doesn't have to "know" GW to think of him as ignorant and a liar--his record makes it perfectly clear.

 

So would you say the same about the democratic controlled House and Senate? Their record makes it clear, too.

[turnsignaldelete]

Attention, All Pro/Obama/Socialist/Communist's; 'Begin Prosecuting President Bush Immediately'.

 

I, and other, 'American Patriots', encourage nacy pelosi, reid and barrack hussein obama to, Jail President Bush and his wife.

 

I also, would encourage nancy pelosi to prosecute and jail ALL Republican Congress men and women who served during the Bush administration.

 

Then Comrade obama, and his gang of Communist thugs, should make it a Federal crime to own ANY Firearms and start the process of arresting and jailing All Gun owners.

 

Yes, Pro/Socialist Barrack Hussein Obama, cool aide drinkers, PLEASE, PLEASE, prosecute Bush and continue to show, 'True American Patriots, that the United States, is NOW, under attack by Comrade obama and his extreme leftist congressional, pro/Socialist/Communist forces.

The United States was founded as a Democratic/ Republic, with Judea-Christian principles. Comrade barrack husein obama, comrade michelle obama, Comrade pelosi, Comrade reed, are Pro/Socialist/Communists.

'American Patriots, Let the defense of our Country begin.

[DDT]

 

"INTOLERANT ANTI-AMERICAN EXTREME RIGHT WING IDIOT"!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

 

Okay Jeff......You can close this one now????????

[turnsignaldelete]

You know I do not, or I hope I don't, insult or disparage people for their beliefs and I would ask the same respect in return.

 

Debate the topic not a person's integrity or morals.

 

Thanks!

 

kumBaYa, KumBaYa,

 

"person's integrity or morals" ?

 

IOW, you believe that, the 'likes', of;

Adolph Hitler

Fidel Castro

Joseph Stalin

Mao Tse-Tung

Ho Chi Minh

Chiang Kai-shek

Saddam Hussein

Pol Pot

Vladimir Lenin

Serial Murders

Hitler's Death camps

 

? Is it, OK to speak of Integrity or Morals with the above list, or just the people you personally disapprove of.

 

Jeff, If you going to continue, to use your, Position as, 'Moderator', to spew your, Pacifist, pro Leftist's agenda, on this Forum, then please provide, your reasons and authorization to limit Free Speech', to just those, 'words' that support your personal Political and Social agendas.

[turnsignaldelete]

Capitalism is built on wage exploitation, that workers never earn enough to buy back what they produce, creating “overproduction” and periodic crises.

 

Do you agree or not ?

[2007GT]

Sorry! Here ya go!

 

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/20..._wmd/index.html

 

Even Colonel Powell has come out since to suggest that he tried to convince the President that Iraq was a bad idea. I think he even warned the President that the evidence wasn’t there, but being the trooper that he was, he did his job. He sold the war to the American public and the World long enough to get us deep into a war that can’t easily be left behind.

 

The question that we need to ask now is ‘how much did Bush and his Administration know’ when they were working on selling the war to the public. This war is going to cost a lot more than the lives of our troops, it will cost well over a trillion if not two trillion dollars when all is said and done. Whenever wars are entered into, there are a lot of invisible costs that people don’t recognize until a decade or more has passed.

 

Economy is about to blow up, recession is on the horizon, a potential showdown with Iran, long-term defense will be an issue now that we’ve pissed off so many people that our enemies have multiplied. Lets not forget that we already had enemies that were threatening our interests.. remember North Korea? Iran? Oops!

 

Salon.com? You might as well get your news from Steven Colbert.

[JeffIsHereToo]

 

kumBaYa, KumBaYa,

 

"person's integrity or morals" ?

 

IOW, you believe that, the 'likes', of;

Adolph Hitler

Fidel Castro

Joseph Stalin

Mao Tse-Tung

Ho Chi Minh

Chiang Kai-shek

Saddam Hussein

Pol Pot

Vladimir Lenin

Serial Murders

Hitler's Death camps

 

? Is it, OK to speak of Integrity or Morals with the above list, or just the people you personally disapprove of.

 

Jeff, If you going to continue, to use your, Position as, 'Moderator', to spew your, Pacifist, pro Leftist's agenda, on this Forum, then please provide, your reasons and authorization to limit Free Speech', to just those, 'words' that support your personal Political and Social agendas.

 

 

Yeah, I so use my position, I think your continued ability to post proves that's not the case!

 

 

[JeffIsHereToo]

Jeff Jeff Jeff, Thats all you talk about with GW. Without knowing the man, you disarage him, call him a liar and ignorant. And I must say, I highly doubt he was disparaging your beliefs, I think it was a lighter moment.

 

 

I meant those of you in the forum. I really try hard to to do that. Public figures however are a different story.

[AstroDan]

So how about Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs invasion? Granted the plan was put in motion when Eisenhower was president but Kennedy got bad intel; went ahead with the operation and we know the outcome of that. Same thing happened to Bush. He got bad intel and reacted to it. For the sake of argument, what would have happened if there was something in Iraq and it was used on U.S. soil? I'm sorry Jeff but with what happened on 9/11 I don't think Bush was willing to roll the dice on this one. Can you honestly blame him? That was a darn tough call. And he took the heat for it.

Carefull...the last time I made a comment about Kennedy, the post disappeared!

 

I see this whole thing as smoke and mirrors. While we focus on this "investigation" that will go nowhere, a socialistic agenda is unfolding... This admin is all about strawmen.

Most Americans don't see it so it works like a charm!

[svttim]

 

 

"INTOLERANT ANTI-AMERICAN EXTREME RIGHT WING IDIOT"!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

 

Okay Jeff......You can close this one now????????

 

 

Democratic Political hack!

 

 

Herin lies the problem DDT, there are people on your side, just as on our side that will do exactly what TSD is talking about. If you want to align with Move On and the tree nuts (Acorn), your one of them.

[DDT]

Capitalism is built on wage exploitation, that workers never earn enough to buy back what they produce, creating “overproduction” and periodic crises.

 

Do you agree or not ?

 

This explains "EXCESSIVE GREED" and "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION"????????

 

We agree on something??????????

[turnsignaldelete]

"INTOLERANT ANTI-AMERICAN EXTREME RIGHT WING IDIOT"!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Okay Jeff......You can close this one now????????

I meant those of you in the forum. I really try hard to to do that. Public figures however are a different story.

Yeah, I so use my position, I think your continued ability to post proves that's not the case!

Jeffery, "My continued ability to Post, on this Forum or any Forum, on Team Shelby, Has nothing to do with you. Your continued use of your 'Moderator' position to intimidate, or to control free speech, will not be tolerated. The majority of my posts, are anti/Comrade hussein/obama, who is, by YOUR own above definition, "A PUBLIC FIGURE"

 

You have made it clear that it is OK, for you and other, believers of Comrade/Obama's, night'mare for America, to continue to 'Bash/Demean/Ridicule, President Bush/Conservatives. I can POST your, statements, about Bush and others, or you can be honest and admit that you posted them.

 

However, when Republican/Conservatives post negative comments about, Comrade barrack Hussein obama, it's not ok, or is labeled, ''hate speech'.

 

I resent your double standard and it's time that it cease. If you wish to take this issue further, "up the ladder", we can.

 

I don't care what you post Jeff, It's your condescending arrogance, and selective use of 'Free speech dictates, that I challenge.

[MikeCMM]

I see this whole thing as smoke and mirrors. While we focus on this "investigation" that will go nowhere, a socialistic agenda is unfolding... This admin is all about strawmen.

Most Americans don't see it so it works like a charm!

 

 

I buy that about the investigation. It is an old magician'strick. Watch the left hand while the right pulls of the trick. Has everyone forgotten that the government is trying to get control the banks and have a hand in on the big three? I'm sorry but I've said this many times. You don't want the government controlling these sectors. And on top of that; everytime the government gets involved in anything be it Democrat or Republican they manage to make a bad situation worse. Would everyone agree on that point?

 

Should this investigation go through; so be it. But let's keep it fair. They want to hold Bush accountable; okay. But I expect to see Pelosi and Reid right along side of him. No favoritism. I will have some serious issues if it is all one sided.

[turnsignaldelete]

Capitalism is built on wage exploitation, that workers never earn enough to buy back what they produce, creating “overproduction” and periodic crises.

 

Do you agree or not ?

 

 

This explains "EXCESSIVE GREED" and "ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION"????????

 

We agree on something??????????

 

EDITORIAL: Marx was right

>Archive - Daily Online

Author: PWW Editorial Board

People's Weekly World Newspaper, 10/17/08 13:13

 

"It was only yesterday that “free market” ideologues were dancing on Karl Marx’s grave with scornful shouts that “greed is good” and “TINA” — “there is no alternative” to capitalism. These fat men guffawed contemptuously at Marx’s warning that capitalism is built on wage exploitation, that workers never earn enough to buy back what they produce, creating “overproduction” and periodic crises — some deep and long — that can only be solved by socialism."

 

No DDT, we have nothing in common politically. However, your Pro/comrade/obama/marxist/communist beliefs and agendas, have been revealed. It's OK with me DDT, that you believe in Communism, I just do not want you or any other Marx follower, to decide who is President of the United States.

 

[DDT]

You draw to many wild Ideas about "COMMUNISM".............

 

You definately need to do research on the subject and turning on your brain might help?????

 

And then.........Maybe not??????????

[DDT]

Henry Ford started the Model T Assembly line paying workers a living wage and he made

sure they could afford the product they built............

 

Capitalism at it's best..........Take out the Greed and advance the commen good.........

[DDT]

Democratic Political hack!

 

 

Herin lies the problem DDT, there are people on your side, just as on our side that will do exactly what TSD is talking about. If you want to align with Move On and the tree nuts (Acorn), your one of them.

 

And you agreed with me that he is wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Bring back your liberal personality Tim so we agree again?????????

[JeffIsHereToo]

Ron Paul supports Obama's changes to US Foreign Policy:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJky1akj-Vo

[2007GT]

Ron Paul supports Obama's changes to US Foreign Policy:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJky1akj-Vo

 

That's because Ron Paul is a non interventionist. He does not however agree one iota with Obama's economic "plan" and thinks that Obama is wrecking the economy. Mr. Paul is on the Glenn Beck show all the time. If you want to know what he really thinks, tune in.

[2007GT]

Henry Ford started the Model T Assembly line paying workers a living wage and he made

sure they could afford the product they built............

 

Capitalism at it's best..........Take out the Greed and advance the commen good.........

 

 

So you're saying that the guy being paid $45.00 per hour plus benefits to screw a lug nut on a Pontiac G6 doesn't earn enough to buy the car?