Ex-Police Chief of Police in Seattle...

[SGT/SC#0471]

So as I live in Seattle and there is a counterculture holiday known as 4:20 on April 20th, I received the following link in an e-mail from a widely circulated fwd here. As I know there are many Police officers and law types on the forum...what do you guys think about this viewpoint? Mind you I could care less, I like Chamucos Tequilia and a bottle of Sol...(and no I do not mix that with driving) I was just wondering. I spent the time reading this and its written by a man I respect...What says the LEO crew here?

 

Edit: I added the article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norm-stamper...l_b_188627.html

 

and I know it was in the huffington post but it has links to Fox too and the guy really was a Police Chief here and well liked.

[DDT]

Yes.......Take their Profit away and Tax the outa the stuff................

[svtbird91]

If alcohol is as bad as they say (and it is) I say make that illegal too ,problems solved. Of course that will never happen because of the money generated in that industry and is a big source of income for the gov. His argument for legalizing pot actually supports prohibition of alcohol not the other way around.

his rationale is so stupid IMO

 

Just because something will serve to bring in more money to the Gov is no justification to make something inherently bad for society legal.

[David Hawkins]

If alcohol is as bad as they say (and it is) I say make that illegal too ,problems solved. Of course that will never happen because of the money generated in that industry and is a big source of income for the gov. His argument for legalizing pot actually supports prohibition of alcohol not the other way around.

his rationale is so stupid IMO

 

Just because something will serve to bring in more money to the Gov is no justification to make something inherently bad for society legal.

 

 

Prohibition was repealed because it was costing way more to fight it then it was to deal with it. I say just make it illegal to produce ANY Alcohol over 25% Proof and any Beer over 3% Proof. Add a .25 Cent Tax per Ounce.

 

As far as Illegal Drugs go, I say leave the USERS alone. Send the Dealers & Sellers to Prison for 10 Years Minimum, the Trificers to Prison for 20 to Life and the Manufacturers to Prison for LIFE WOP. To make room, release all of the USERS that are in Jail & Prison now, I don't want my Tax dollars paying to House, Cloth and Feed those loosers.

[NordicShelby]

Since you only asked for the opinion of law enforcement types I guess I'm not suppose to comment. ^_^

 

I would guess that most police officers would say to Legalize it and TAX it. Its already legal in several states throughout the US for medical reasons. I'm not for it or against it I simply feel people should be allowed (within reason) to do what they want in the privacy of their own home. Yes I agree you shouldn't go to work under the influence of anything and you really shouldn't drive either.

 

If alcohol and the very EVIL cigerettes are legal why then wouldn't this be legal?

[CobraCrazy]

Since you only asked for the opinion of law enforcement types I guess I'm not suppose to comment. ^_^

 

I would guess that most police officers would say to Legalize it and TAX it. Its already legal in several states throughout the US for medical reasons. I'm not for it or against it I simply feel people should be allowed (within reason) to do what they want in the privacy of their own home. Yes I agree you shouldn't go to work under the influence of anything and you really shouldn't drive either.

 

If alcohol and the very EVIL cigerettes are legal why then wouldn't this be legal?

+1

[ingram4868]

Just another way to dumb down the masses? The government placing a tax on any consumable is a bad idea. The government becomes dependent on the revenue stream then when people cut back on consumption (like we did on gasoline for awhile) the government runs around wanting to raise other taxes to compensate.

 

I didn't see the Chief's name in the short article, is this the same guy that was Chief in San Jose, Ca. for a few years?

[Boss Doctor]

Well, I'm a former policeman, so I guess that I qualify in that context.

 

There are way too many people wanting to legislate their values upon another when that value has nothing to do with themselves or other innocent people. If someone wants to drink, smoke, or do drugs then that's their business as long as they aren't driving under the influence, blowing smoke where I have to breath it, or otherwise doing anything else that infringes on another's rights to not do the same.

 

There are also too many double standards with the law. Alcohol kills many more people than drugs, yet its legal. Smoking kills many more people, yet its legal. And guess what? Legal drugs kill many people as well as many other industries such as processed foods and chemicals in our environment.

 

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, and it's not working with drugs. We spend billions of dollars each year repeating the mistakes already made during prohibition of alcohol. Once it was legalized, the gangs turned to other enterprises for revenue such as drugs. If you legalize drugs, give licenses to pharmaceutical companies, (rather than the drug gangs), and tax the sales, things would change for that too.

 

I say legalize all drugs, regulate the industry, tax it like they do other "sins", divert some of the billions into education and rehabilitation, and crack-down on users who endanger others, (such as DUI/DWI).

[mywickedshelby]

Well, I'm a former policeman, so I guess that I qualify in that context.

 

There are way too many people wanting to legislate their values upon another when that value has nothing to do with themselves or other innocent people. If someone wants to drink, smoke, or do drugs then that's their business as long as they aren't driving under the influence, blowing smoke where I have to breath it, or otherwise doing anything else that infringes on another's rights to not do the same.

 

There are also too many double standards with the law. Alcohol kills many more people than drugs, yet its legal. Smoking kills many more people, yet its legal. And guess what? Legal drugs kill many people as well as many other industries such as processed foods and chemicals in our environment.

 

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, and it's not working with drugs. We spend billions of dollars each year repeating the mistakes already made during prohibition of alcohol. Once it was legalized, the gangs turned to other enterprises for revenue such as drugs. If you legalize drugs, give licenses to pharmaceutical companies, (rather than the drug gangs), and tax the sales, things would change for that too.

 

I say legalize all drugs, regulate the industry, tax it like they do other "sins", divert some of the billions into education and rehabilitation, and crack-down on users who endanger others, (such as DUI/DWI).

 

+100000000,

well said Doc.

[regalt87]

Legalize it would boost our economy, the late night fast food places would prosper!

[RUFDRAFT]

Legalize it.

[69dejavue]

Well, I will be the contrarian. The quoted police chief is an idiot and apparently, IMO, has very little experience working with those with addictions. There is little I can imagine in this world than having a child or loved one with a drug or alcohol addiction. It is like slowly watching a person die before your eyes. Slowly. Marijuana has always been recognized as the gateway drug. The drug that people start with and then"progress" to other drugs. Almost every addict started with marijuana. It is an absolute shame that this, or other idiots, want to legalize something so they can tax it. What a whore. No consideration for the people that will have to battle addictions for generations to come. And it will not lessen violence or create income. Do you really think the Cali, or Gulf, or other cartels are going to pay taxes? It will always remain an underground market. Do you think any kid really wants to grow up to be a junkie or a crack whore? I remember when marijuana was a felony and they made it a misdemeanor. Surprise, drug usage increased. Then in many states they made it a minor misdemeanor, similar to a parking ticket, and suprise again, drug usage increased. Realistically what can we expect when it would be completely leagalized. Is that the message we want to send to the next generations? Go ahead and f*&k up your lives forever by being an addict but just pay a tax on your dope? And contrary to opinion, marijuana is addictive. Maybe not physically but at least psychologically. People become dependent upon it. Again, if you have known addicts or worked closely with addicts you would never recommend legalizing yet another instrument of corruption and something to ruin lives.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Just another way to dumb down the masses? The government placing a tax on any consumable is a bad idea. The government becomes dependent on the revenue stream then when people cut back on consumption (like we did on gasoline for awhile) the government runs around wanting to raise other taxes to compensate.

 

I didn't see the Chief's name in the short article, is this the same guy that was Chief in San Jose, Ca. for a few years?

 

 

 

His name is Norm Stamper. Don't know where else he worked. I saw an interview with him on TV locally one time and respected his demeanor and what he had to say, truthfully I do not remember what he was even being interviewed about but I do remember respecting him immediately. He was well liked.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Legalize it would boost our economy, the late night fast food places would prosper!

 

Dude I like to drive at night and one time I stopped for a shake after midnight at a local 50's style walk up burger joint (Dicks Burgers rule!) man that was funny...

[SGT/SC#0471]

Since you only asked for the opinion of law enforcement types I guess I'm not suppose to comment. ^_^

 

I would guess that most police officers would say to Legalize it and TAX it. Its already legal in several states throughout the US for medical reasons. I'm not for it or against it I simply feel people should be allowed (within reason) to do what they want in the privacy of their own home. Yes I agree you shouldn't go to work under the influence of anything and you really shouldn't drive either.

 

If alcohol and the very EVIL cigerettes are legal why then wouldn't this be legal?

 

CC cigs are the WORST....and evil evil evil.....going on 4 months no smoking here I think I stopped counting, but know I am done.

Still feel edgy sometimes...but then I did before as well....exercise and breath its my mantra these days.

[NordicShelby]

Again I am not for it or against it I just feel that there are a lot more worse things that our Law enforcement agencies could be spending our HARD earned tax dollars on fighting.

 

What I dont understand is why is Cigerettes legal? If anything should be illegal it should be cigs. It serves no purpose other than giving its dedicated consumers lung cancer.

[NordicShelby]

CC cigs are the WORST....and evil evil evil.....going on 4 months no smoking here I think I stopped counting, but know I am done.

Still feel edgy sometimes...but then I did before as well....exercise and breath its my mantra these days.

Congrats McCoy that is really cool. I have never smoked cigs and never will. I can't stand to be next to anybody smoking cigs it really affects my breathing.

 

Yes exercise is the only way you will get rid of the edge plus it will get rid of the little baby fat you recently got by quiting. You should really try out a Yoga class

[switz]

I just retired as a policeman. I worked narcotics in the 1980's and was a supervisor of a county-wide narcotics task force in late 1990's and early 2000's. While there, I was in charge of the program for marijuana eradication. Got to repel out of black hawk helicopters, very fun but I digress...anyway, the money that was/is spent on drugs is a joke. We didn't have enough money to pay the informants to purchase the drugs. There was so much meth that I would turn down 10lb deals just to get different drugs.

 

I used to be against the legalization of marijuana but my mind was changed when my dad got cancer. I saw this crap basically torture him to death. He was prescribed some of the most toxic, powerful drugs known but the reality is a little pot would have made him more comfortable; too bad he didn't have any.

 

As far as it being a "gateway" drug I don't buy it. This is misinformation propagated by the anti drug industry, which by the way is huge. I have worked with many addicts and guess what? Some people have an addictive personality.

 

Now, my wife suffers from massive migraine headaches. She got a medical marijuana card as she didn't want to take the heavy prescription drugs. The marijuana actually helps her more. I say, who cares, legalize it and remove the underground drug society/business associated with pot.

[mywickedshelby]

I just retired as a policeman. I worked narcotics in the 1980's and was a supervisor of a county-wide narcotics task force in late 1990's and early 2000's. While there, I was in charge of the program for marijuana eradication. Got to repel out of black hawk helicopters, very fun but I digress...anyway, the money that was/is spent on drugs is a joke. We didn't have enough money to pay the informants to purchase the drugs. There was so much meth that I would turn down 10lb deals just to get different drugs.

 

I used to be against the legalization of marijuana but my mind was changed when my dad got cancer. I saw this crap basically torture him to death. He was prescribed some of the most toxic, powerful drugs known but the reality is a little pot would have made him more comfortable; too bad he didn't have any.

 

As far as it being a "gateway" drug I don't buy it. This is misinformation propagated by the anti drug industry, which by the way is huge. I have worked with many addicts and guess what? Some people have an addictive personality.

 

Now, my wife suffers from massive migraine headaches. She got a medical marijuana card as she didn't want to take the heavy prescription drugs. The marijuana actually helps her more. I say, who cares, legalize it and remove the underground drug society/business associated with pot.

 

Very well put Switz, thank you for the prospective of an officer.

[Boss Doctor]

Well, I will be the contrarian. The quoted police chief is an idiot and apparently, IMO, has very little experience working with those with addictions. 1. There is little I can imagine in this world than having a child or loved one with a drug or alcohol addiction. It is like slowly watching a person die before your eyes. Slowly. 2. Marijuana has always been recognized as the gateway drug. The drug that people start with and then"progress" to other drugs. Almost every addict started with marijuana. 3. It is an absolute shame that this, or other idiots, want to legalize something so they can tax it. What a whore. No consideration for the people that will have to battle addictions for generations to come. 4. And it will not lessen violence or create income. 5. Do you really think the Cali, or Gulf, or other cartels are going to pay taxes? 6. It will always remain an underground market. 7. Do you think any kid really wants to grow up to be a junkie or a crack whore? I remember when marijuana was a felony and they made it a misdemeanor. Surprise, drug usage increased. Then in many states they made it a minor misdemeanor, similar to a parking ticket, and suprise again, drug usage increased. Realistically what can we expect when it would be completely leagalized. Is that the message we want to send to the next generations? Go ahead and f*&k up your lives forever by being an addict but just pay a tax on your dope? 8. And contrary to opinion, marijuana is addictive. Maybe not physically but at least psychologically. People become dependent upon it. Again, if you have known addicts or worked closely with addicts you would never recommend legalizing yet another instrument of corruption and something to ruin lives.

 

1. Currently, drugs and alcohol are both illegal for minors, yet people experience this very problem with their children now. How is this any different? Making something legal doesn't mean everyone will run out and abuse drugs just as not everyone runs out and abuses alcohol today. Stupid is still stupid, and the best weapon against stupid is education. Will education be 100% successful? No, but how can you say it would be less successful then the current situation?

 

2. The gateway drug argument has been de-bunked, and really never held water to begin with. It was only accepted by persons predisposed to believe it. The argument for claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug was based on usage statistics with questionable interpretation from people clearly pushing an agenda. The same argument could also be used for claiming milk as the gateway to harder drugs because damn near every drug addict drank milk at one time in their life. Show me an objective study grounded in scientific methods to support your assertion, and then this argument will carry weight.

 

3. Agreed, if that is their only reason for legalizing it. But taxing it can support prevention and rehabilitation efforts. The problem will arise when our government diverts the money to their pork projects such as the "Road to Nowhere" that has been recently mentioned in the news.

 

4. You mean legalizing alcohol didn’t create income? I think the huge beer and liquor companies would disagree, and the government sure has taxed their sales too. Prohibition gave rise to terrible gangs and violence, and when prohibition ended the gang violence decreased. I know of no modern gangs making their billions from trafficking alcohol. Supply versus demand drives profit, and a cartel in Central America, (who would still be operating illegally), would not be able to compete with an American drug company operating legally. Decreasing demand while increasing legal, low-cost supply would certainly prompt the cartels into another business. One problem that I do foresee is the corner drug dealers having to find other things to do to generate income. That could increase burglaries and robberies, but diverting the billions currently spent to fight a losing drug battle could be spent on increasing law enforcement personnel and equipment on the streets.

 

5. No, that's why they would still be denied permits to do business. They would not be able to compete with legal companies due to logistics and overhead.

 

6. About like there is with moonshine today? Probably, but how big of a problem is moonshine today? How many people would be growing their own weed in their gardens? I'd say that drop in demand would make this an extremely small problem.

 

7. I think the number of kids wanting to grow up to be a junkie will not change because it’s legal. Tax revenue and the taxes currently spent to fight the losing battle should support prevention/rehabilitation efforts, but you can’t fix stupid. As a matter of fact, I can think of no law that fixes stupid. As far as what we are teaching future generations, what in the heck to you think we are teaching them by saying drugs are illegal, but alcohol and tobacco are ok? You cannot convincingly argue that alcohol or tobacco kill fewer people than illegal drugs do. The statistics just simply will not support that. The current policy is hypocrisy at its finest. Now that's an appropriate lesson for our children. [sarcasm]

 

8. Alcohol and tobacco are more addictive than marijuana. The latter has even been suggested that the addiction is as strong as it is with heroine. The most abused drug in the world is caffeine. Heck, even junk food is addictive! Why is it ok to be addicted to those, but it’s not ok to be addicted to marijuana? You cannot convincingly argue that drugs kill more people than alcohol, tobacco, or even processed food. The facts just don’t support that.

 

I admit that I once thought the same way as you: however, decades of this approach has proven its ineffectiveness. I'm ready to try something else.

[NordicShelby]

What I find very intersting is our nice neighbors to the North in BC Canada they have found a very happy medium with the legalization and what about the infamous Amsterdam and Spain and countless other countries who have legalized it. I dont see them having mass problems if anything it has increased tourism and created revenue that they otherwise they would have wasted fighting it if it was illegal.

 

Within our own country this is a huge debate and since it is already legalized for medical purposes in several states why not legalize it throughout our country. I completely agree with Switz about that it should be legalized for medical reasons and hell why not for recreational purposes as well if it can generate positve tax dollars and that money can be spent for education and for building a new school why not.

 

And Snake doctor your post is very accurate and very intersting to read

[Boss Doctor]

Graci.

[mywickedshelby]

you nailed it Steve!

[KingCobra666]

+1 Snake Doctor, switz and CCmelies.

 

Deja, I dont believe in the whole gateway drug thing, if thats true then booze is also a gateway drug. More harm is done by making weed illegal. Drug dealers dont care who they sell too including kids. Legalizing it would put them out of business. It would free up the cops to concentrate on other crimes and make more money available to fight them. It would empty out the prisons to make room for the real bad guys.

 

Booze makes people violent, weed makes them hungry

 

The biggest anti weed lobby is the liquor industry...right now they have the only legal recreational drug in the land. They dont want competition.

 

Cigs are worse than either. Bravo Mccoy I wish I could do it, tried 6 times failed 6 times...I WILL try again though.

 

KC666

[svtbird91]

I say, who cares, legalize it and remove the underground drug society/business associated with pot.

 

Sure and with this logic we should also legalize all currently illegal drugs and remove them from the underground drug society/business they are associated with too.

 

I view all these things (Alcohol, and other drugs) as a major destructive force in our society . They hurt and even kill not just the people who use them but unfortunatly many inocent people who are friends,family and even those who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. (auto accidents, drug shootings etc. )

 

The fact that this country has so many people with major drug and alcohol problems is indicitave of the moral decay in this country. The real solution to this and many other problems is this country needs to turn away from it's current path of destructive living and turn back to God's ways if there is any hope for the future of this nation.

The more man tries to solve it's own problems without God the bigger they become.

 

I'm sure this statement will offend many of you ,that is not my intent but it's the truth and needs to be said. I would only hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears ,I fear it will.

 

(Armor on )

[RUFDRAFT]

Sure and with this logic we should also legalize all currently illegal drugs and remove them from the underground drug society/business they are associated with too.

 

I view all these things (Alcohol, and other drugs) as a major destructive force in our society . They hurt and even kill not just the people who use them but unfortunatly many inocent people who are friends,family and even those who happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. (auto accidents, drug shootings etc. )

 

The fact that this country has so many people with major drug and alcohol problems is indicitave of the moral decay in this country. The real solution to this and many other problems is this country needs to turn away from it's current path of destructive living and turn back to God's ways if there is any hope for the future of this nation.

The more man tries to solve it's own problems without God the bigger they become.

 

I'm sure this statement will offend many of you ,that is not my intent but it's the truth and needs to be said. I would only hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears ,I fear it will.

 

(Armor on )

Hi George! Good to see you back! No need for amor. You have the right to your opinion in this country. And part of that is because this country isn't grounded in one religion. (vis a vie - the Middle East) Other countries continue to try to lesgislate morality - and have failed. I agree with your ideology - but feel like it's not realistic in this day and age. Sad - but true.

 

I hope you're enjoying your hot rods! :happy feet:

 

Ruf

[69dejavue]

I must have missed the debunking theory. All I can say is that every heroin, crack, or meth junkie I know has started with marijuana. I also agree that cigarettes and alcohol kill. They could make it all illegal and it would not bother me a bit. What message are we sening kids when we say it is okay to be a doper as long as you pay a tax? It has a lot to do with that loss of moral compass and moral fiber of our country.

 

Some have said that the gateway theory has been debunked by those that were against drugs. It would seem just as logical that NORML and others were the ones for debunking the gateway theory. Again, practical experience has taught me that addicts started with marijuana. I have not seen the proof otherwise.

[SGT/SC#0471]

Interesting posts guys...

[Boss Doctor]

SVTBird91: Although I respect people for having their religious views, we are fortunate enough to have a system in place that doesn't force our religion on one another. I have my own religious views, but that is not the subject of this thread.

 

69Dejavue: I'd be willing to bet they really started with household chemicals, so should we outlaw those too?

 

I find it interesting that someone who has identified their self as conservative repeatedly on this forum would advocate legislating away personal accountability for one's actions, but in contrast expect the poor to be personally accountable for their poverty and not burden the taxpayers with supporting them. How do you reconcile this contrast? Yes, I'm really interested in your thought process on this.

 

I submit that the true gateway to illegal drug use is not marijuana, but rather the society that allowed the current medical system to be put into place. From early childhood we are trained to turn to medicine to make us feel better. Patients expect to be able to walk into a doctor's office and walk out with a prescription to cure their ailments. In fact, patients often demand it. That very mindset has led to the abuse of anti-biotics, (because they were being prescribed for viral conditions for which they are useless), and the rise of aisle after aisle of over-the-counter pills in grocery, convenience, and drug stores all over America. This theory could be just as easily "proven" as your theory, BTW.

 

We actually let pharmaceutical companies run commercials, and if you listen very closely to them with a critical ear you will understand just how ridiculous that is. "Be sure to tell your doctor if you have any stomach or liver problems...." You doctor should know that about you to begin with, or discover it before prescribing anything anyways!

 

As you well know, the law is about accountability for your actions. It has never fixed stupid, so why do you think it has any chance of fixing it in the future? And you haven't addressed the fact that the method that you advocate has been given decades to prove its efficacy, and it has failed miserably in that endeavor.

[KingCobra666]

I must have missed the debunking theory. All I can say is that every heroin, crack, or meth junkie I know has started with marijuana. I also agree that cigarettes and alcohol kill. They could make it all illegal and it would not bother me a bit. What message are we sening kids when we say it is okay to be a doper as long as you pay a tax? It has a lot to do with that loss of moral compass and moral fiber of our country.

 

Some have said that the gateway theory has been debunked by those that were against drugs. It would seem just as logical that NORML and others were the ones for debunking the gateway theory. Again, practical experience has taught me that addicts started with marijuana. I have not seen the proof otherwise.

 

+1 Snake Doctor: We are a highly over medicated society. Its a big business.

 

Deja: Most addicts started with booze, not weed. Alcohol is a drug, yet its legal. Are the guys sitting at the local tap or VFW tipping a few "dopers"? What message are they sending the kids? Arent they just paying taxes to get what they want? Booze is a drug and a strong one. I see no actual differece, its just political rhetoric.

 

svtbird91:IMHO religion is a matter of personal belief, not public policy. It may work for some folks but not for eveyone. There is of course the Constitution to consider.

 

One difference between opiates/cocaine/booze and weed is they are highly physically addictive vs not physically addictive. Weed smokers wont go into convulsions or the DT's if they dont have it. They will just be bummed out All opiates/cocaine/booze can be OD's on. Weed cant.

 

Addiction should be a medical issue not a LEO/prison system issue. The source should be regulated and safe, not some guy on the street corner selling it to who ever he pleases. These are lessons that were learned quickly during the prohibition of alcohol. Somehow it was all forgotten.

 

All these recreational chemicals are harmful, but if causing harm is the criteria, you could make the same argument that no one needs a 500 HP car. Or booze. Or to hang glide. Or own a Pit Bull. That list could get really long. We all make personal choices and live with the consequences. Virtually anything can be abused. It just seems senseless to make a drug that is the LEAST harmful, less harmful that booze, and make it illegal.

 

It also seems to have some medical purposes such as helping people on chemo and chronic pain.

 

We could all live in rubber rooms waiting for death so we dont get hurt. What fun would that be?

 

KC666