ilmor Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (insert heavy sigh here :mad: ) I'm most discouraged how our country has become such a "victim" society where everybody wants to blame someone or something for anything bad that happens to them.... It's the Dems Fault It's the Republicans fault It's Clinton's fault It's Bush's fault It's Obama's fault It's Congress's fault It's Freddie Macs Fault It's my fault It's your fault Just choose which ever one makes you feel better and supports your position because the reality is that it's not any one of them and maybe a bit of all of them to blame Flame away... I disagree. There are truths in this world. You are condoning that "truth" is up to the individual, i.e., "if it feels good, do it". That type of thinking is exactly what has brought us to this point. It's called "relativism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicShelby Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I disagree. There are truths in this world. You are condoning that "truth" is up to the individual, i.e., "if it feels good, do it". That type of thinking is exactly what has brought us to this point. It's called "relativism". Man, no kidding. We couldn't be any further from the bible with that statement. Drugs, adultry, pornography, same sex marriage, you name it. "It feels good. People say that I shouldn't deny who I am..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDT Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I disagree. There are truths in this world. You are condoning that "truth" is up to the individual, i.e., "if it feels good, do it". That type of thinking is exactly what has brought us to this point. It's called "relativism". Not promoting it....However, "That type of thinking" has existed throughout the history of Mankind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Jeff; there have been enemy combatants forever. Only then we called them Prisoners of War. They have been held in POW camps and interrogated forever. See, I think that's the crux of the issue, THEY ARE NOT PRISONERS OF WAR, and that's not my words those are President Bush's words. Prisoners of War fall under the Geneva Convention and have very specific rights that the Bush Administration didn't want to give them so they invented the term "enemy combatant" to evade things like Red Cross visits, torture, etc. While I want to string the bastards up I also think this country stands for something. Funny I watch 24 and this season has been a BIG rip out of all these issues...interesting to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I disagree. There are truths in this world. You are condoning that "truth" is up to the individual, i.e., "if it feels good, do it". That type of thinking is exactly what has brought us to this point. It's called "relativism". When someone tells me that they know the "truth" I usually run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 See, I think that's the crux of the issue, THEY ARE NOT PRISONERS OF WAR, and that's not my words those are President Bush's words. Prisoners of War fall under the Geneva Convention and have very specific rights that the Bush Administration didn't want to give them so they invented the term "enemy combatant" to evade things like Red Cross visits, torture, etc. While I want to string the bastards up I also think this country stands for something. Funny I watch 24 and this season has been a BIG rip out of all these issues...interesting to watch! Humm, how did Red Cross give reports if they didn't visit? You'd also think that they'd have Red Cresent visit them instead anyways. Ok, Jeff. I've heard you and others bitch about how terrorism is being handled, but I have yet to hear of a viable alternative from your side. As a matter of fact, Obama seems to be doing the same as Bush, but there's no public outcry from the left. They are not criminals. They aren't legally insane. They aren't soldiers who wear a uniform, fight for a country, (although they are certainly funded by them), and are protected by any convention. They aren't American citizens to which the constitution applies. Let's have it...what's your plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rarecat Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I disagree. There are truths in this world. You are condoning that "truth" is up to the individual, i.e., "if it feels good, do it". That type of thinking is exactly what has brought us to this point. It's called "relativism". Actually I agree with you, I believe there actually are truths and causes. I also believe that in this age of the internet & instant communications, anyone, anywhere can get up on thier soapbox and proclaim that they know what's right and wrong without having to have any pedigree or truely factual information to back them up. Modern mudslinging at it's finest I believe that the causes (used pural intentionally) of the current financial crisis are many and complex. In that context, I also believe that trying to place blame on one single event amounts to little more than political posturing to fit a belief structure, the truth is more complex with plenty of blame to be given out. Finally, the one absolute truth I do know is that this is a car club website dedicated to Shelby Automobiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Humm, how did Red Cross give reports if they didn't visit? You'd also think that they'd have Red Cresent visit them instead anyways. This was years into this that the Red Cross was provided limited access and even then some detainees were kept in secret and in secret prisons around the world. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...ees-733563.html http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090407/ap_on_..._interrogations http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-relea...roups-detainees Ok, Jeff. I've heard you and others bitch about how terrorism is being handled, but I have yet to hear of a viable alternative from your side. You've swapped topics again. We're not talking here about "how terrorism is being handled" we're specifically talking about the suspension of very basic rights that this country has stood for and used as out stick over others that do not. The alternative has always been there so I don't see where there is any confusion. Sure, place them in camps, but follow international and US law, and set up some agreed upon process to charge and try these people in an open and transparent way so there can be no confusion. If we feel some people are so dangerous that we can't do that then let's say so and deal with it in the open rather than in secret, in hiding and in denial. WWJFKD? But back to the original original topic: Funny I've heard you and others bitch about how the economy is being handled, but I have yet to hear of a viable alternative from your side. In fact your party only lately came up, in the house, with an alternative budget that was rejected by 28 Republican's when voted on last week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I changed topics? Nope! It wasn't me. See, I think that's the crux of the issue, THEY ARE NOT PRISONERS OF WAR, and that's not my words those are President Bush's words.... This was years into this that the Red Cross was provided limited access and even then some detainees were kept in secret and in secret prisons around the world. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...ees-733563.html http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090407/ap_on_..._interrogations http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-relea...roups-detainees You've swapped topics again. We're not talking here about "how terrorism is being handled" we're specifically talking about the suspension of very basic rights that this country has stood for and used as out stick over others that do not. The alternative has always been there so I don't see where there is any confusion. Sure, place them in camps, but follow international and US law, and set up some agreed upon process to charge and try these people in an open and transparent way so there can be no confusion. If we feel some people are so dangerous that we can't do that then let's say so and deal with it in the open rather than in secret, in hiding and in denial. WWJFKD? But back to the original original topic: Funny I've heard you and others bitch about how the economy is being handled, but I have yet to hear of a viable alternative from your side. In fact your party only lately came up, in the house, with an alternative budget that was rejected by 28 Republican's when voted on last week! My party? There's s centrist party? Damn! I didn't get the memo! Oh, and I have proposed a solution to the detainees that I posted on TS, but damned if I'm not politically powerful enough for someone to listen to me. And you are right, I haven't posted my solution to the economy because I'm not an economist - let alone an economist pandering to a party for job creation/security. I do believe that I would have bailed-out the taxpayers rather than banks, insurance companies, and car manufacturers. I probably would have made them go through a structured bankruptcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 I changed topics? Nope! It wasn't me. My party? There's s centrist party? Damn! I didn't get the memo! Oh, and I have proposed a solution to the detainees that I posted on TS, but damned if I'm not politically powerful enough for someone to listen to me. And you are right, I haven't posted my solution to the economy because I'm not an economist - let alone an economist pandering to a party for job creation/security. I do believe that I would have bailed-out the taxpayers rather than banks, insurance companies, and car manufacturers. I probably would have made them go through a structured bankruptcy. Sorry! You're right! If such a party existed I'd join it with you! :happy feet: I'm also with you in that I am not an expert, by any means, on ANY of these topics and agree with you on the "structured bankruptcy" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Actually I agree with you, I believe there actually are truths and causes. I also believe that in this age of the internet & instant communications, anyone, anywhere can get up on thier soapbox and proclaim that they know what's right and wrong without having to have any pedigree or truely factual information to back them up. Modern mudslinging at it's finest I believe that the causes (used pural intentionally) of the current financial crisis are many and complex. In that context, I also believe that trying to place blame on one single event amounts to little more than political posturing to fit a belief structure, the truth is more complex with plenty of blame to be given out. Finally, the one absolute truth I do know is that this is a car club website dedicated to Shelby Automobiles Ok, I understand that! Also - Go Gators!! (me ---> class of '78). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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