69dejavue Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I think this should resolve once and for all whom bears the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 NYTimes1999.pdf I think this should resolve once and for all whom bears the blame. I have to agree...and include this.... NYTimes1999.pdf NYTimes1999.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 And yet the left talks about deregulation by the Bush administration causing the problems although, for example, when I directly challenged Jeff he couldn't/wouldn't produce an example of Bush's deregulation of the markets that caused this problem. For some time I've thought the minority's tactic was to interfere with everything the majority does, and then adamantly points their fingers of blame at the majority when things go wrong. And now that the minority is the majority they get upset when it's done to them? They talk of "hysteria" from the right as the true hypocrites they are! What a crock of crap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 And yet the left talks about deregulation by the Bush administration causing the problems although, for example, when I directly challenged Jeff he couldn't/wouldn't produce an example of Bush's deregulation of the markets that caused this problem. For some time I've thought the minority's tactic was to interfere with everything the majority does, and then adamantly poins their fingers of blame at the majority when things go wrong. And now that the minority is the majority they get upset when it's done to them? They talk of "hysteria" from the right as the true hypocrites they are! What a crock of crap! Where did I ever mention Bush and deregulation? Where is this challenge? If I missed it I apologize! Why are you so angry? As Jon Stewart said, you guys have only been out of power for 10 weeks! You gotta pace yourselves until the mid-terms or you're gonna have a heart attack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicShelby Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 And yet the left talks about deregulation by the Bush administration causing the problems although, for example, when I directly challenged Jeff he couldn't/wouldn't produce an example of Bush's deregulation of the markets that caused this problem. For some time I've thought the minority's tactic was to interfere with everything the majority does, and then adamantly poins their fingers of blame at the majority when things go wrong. And now that the minority is the majority they get upset when it's done to them? They talk of "hysteria" from the right as the true hypocrites they are! What a crock of crap! Well... gotta point your finger at something. Now that they can't point it at Bush, and Obama carries himself as a less likely scape goat for everything, it's confusing everyone... Who's it gonaa beeee? Pin the tale on the donkey!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Where did I ever mention Bush and deregulation? Where is this challenge? If I missed it I apologize! Why are you so angry? As Jon Stewart said, you guys have only been out of power for 10 weeks! You gotta pace yourselves until the mid-terms or you're gonna have a heart attack! Post# 28 http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php...41268&st=20 I stand corrected, and I'm the one who apologizes. You were participating in the thread, and I was responding to GT500Flyboy, but the question was intended for all of the vocal lefties on the thread. I should have made the question more directed than I did, and I'm sorry. But the question has been asked before, and I have yet to see ANYMONE answer it. One did say that it was the lack of new regulations rather than deregulation - which this report clearly contradicts. BTW: As a former Marine, I respect someone who admits a mistake, and then tries to fix it. If Frank, et al, had said, "Yes, we were wrong on this, so now we must work extremely hard to correct it and make sure that it never happens again." I would accept that because no one is perfect. But to do this and then point the finger of blame at the right is unconscionable! As a centrist, I would be just as upset if the right did the same to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Post# 28 http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php...41268&st=20 I stand corrected, and I'm the one who apologizes. You were participating in the thread, and I was responding to GT500Flyboy, but the question was intended for all of the vocal lefties on the thread. I should have made the question more directed than I did, and I'm sorry. But the question has been asked before, and I have yet to see ANYMONE answer it. One did say that it was the lack of new regulations rather than deregulation - which this report clearly contradicts. BTW: As a former Marine, I respect someone who admits a mistake, and then tries to fix it. If Frank, et al, had said, "Yes, we were wrong on this, so now we must work extremely hard to correct it and make sure that it never happens again." I would accept that because no one is perfect. Put to do this and then point the finger of blame at the right is unconscionable! As a centrist, I would be just as upset if the right did the same to the left. +1 We all make mistakes...even democrats! I think most of the deregulation damage was done during the Clinton years, though the act was a bi-partisan effort in the Republican controlled congress, but Clinton signed it! Everyone thought hey don't worry about it! It's going to be ok! The challenge then for the Bush administration was do you change things even if you see warning signs? Do you re-regulate and kill the goose that laid the golden egg? I really don't think these were very high priorities for anyone until the bottom fell out and then fingers pointed in all directions. As JFK said after the Bay of Pigs, "Victory has a hundred fathers and defeat is an orphan". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormeaston Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISAID Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 All politicians should be tarred and feathered and run out of Washington. They are all to blame regardless of party. They only have their intrest not not the people they represent. A small piece of advice for all purchase the three precious metals Gold, Silver and Lead more of the last. Oh Yea! a fast car prefferably a Shelby GT500. We need to speak up " WE THE PEOPLE" we have allowed this to happen to our country because we have been silent to long. So we are to blame for what we have allowed over the years. We must restore representation of the people not the special interest of a few liberal groups, politicans and or lobbyist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 We need to speak up " WE THE PEOPLE" we have allowed this to happen to our country because we have been silent to long. Who has been silent? They in the offices do not care what the people say. They say they do until elected and then become infested with the parasite that is the fat and lazy politician. They only way to change is to do a COMPLETE turnover and enforce term limits. We the people are WAY beyond needing to talk to make a change and the movement is growing fast. Problem is we few hundred on this board can not agree so how the hell can a few million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 All politicians should be tarred and feathered and run out of Washington. They are all to blame regardless of party. They only have their intrest not not the people they represent. A small piece of advice for all purchase the three precious metals Gold, Silver and Lead more of the last. Oh Yea! a fast car prefferably a Shelby GT500. We need to speak up " WE THE PEOPLE" we have allowed this to happen to our country because we have been silent to long. So we are to blame for what we have allowed over the years. We must restore representation of the people not the special interest of a few liberal groups, politicans and or lobbyist. We have a Constitution, which you quoted, and a democratically elected President and Congress. It's a system I think has overall worked pretty damn well for more than 230 years. The people have representation, we had pretty high voter turnout, and the people spoke. You may not like what they said but again it's all that precious document. I would rather see us make a few mistakes and missteps, even the last four years, than live in a country where elected officials can be "tarred and feathered" or thrown out of office at the whims of popular, or unpopular, opinion. I also think there are more than a few that are indeed sincerely working for their constituents especially in the House with their two year terms. I worked as a Legislative Intern back in the early 90s, yeah a while ago, and the things I saw and heard there, in session, committees, staff meetings, lunches, etc., made me proud to be an American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISAID Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I want to clear up one thing I am proud to be an American, but I am not proud of what America has become. You say we have reprensentation, I strongly disagree, I suppose you cast a vote on the stimulus bill, AIG, GM and Chrysler bailouts thats what I am talking about. The actions our elected officials have taken lately have so serverly impacted the future of our children and grandchildren I fear for them. If you feel that you were represented by the stimulus plan and all the bailout legislation and executive orders that were signed then you and I will never agree on the problem nor the solution. If this is CHANGE! then please keep it for yourself, consider it my contribution to the stimulus plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frydguy79 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 it's time for a new tea party and get rid of all current politicians and 3/4's of shitty corupt laws they have passed in the last 30 years and start over with a very strict anti coruption clause built into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicShelby Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I want to clear up one thing I am proud to be an American, but I am not proud of what America has become. You say we have reprensentation, I strongly disagree, I suppose you cast a vote on the stimulus bill, AIG, GM and Chrysler bailouts thats what I am talking about. The actions our elected officials have taken lately have so serverly impacted the future of our children and grandchildren I fear for them. If you feel that you were represented by the stimulus plan and all the bailout legislation and executive orders that were signed then you and I will never agree on the problem nor the solution. If this is CHANGE! then please keep it for yourself, consider it my contribution to the stimulus plan. it's time for a new tea party and get rid of all current politicians and 3/4's of shitty corupt laws they have passed in the last 30 years and start over with a very strict anti coruption clause built into it +1 :beerchug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCrazy Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 http://digg.com/d1afAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 http://digg.com/d1afAA Thanks CC! According to this article, it started in mid-1990's under the congress and presidency of the Democratic Party, and went into action as the congress turned to Republican control. When the Republicans warned of a problem and tried to implement regulatory measures, Democrats blocked the effort. Now that it's blown-up into an economic mess the Democrats point their fingers at the Republican-controlled government, and Obama repeatedly states that he inherited this mess from the previous administration. Just the sort of unconscionable conduct that I despise and the left defends! I also find this statement interesting for all the pro-regulation zealots on this forum: "...Darrell Duffie, an economist at Stanford...says, 'if you outlaw them, [Credit Default Swaps] then the financial engineers will just come up with something else that gets around the regulation.' As Wall Street..." Businesses always figure a way around regulations if it's at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCrazy Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Thanks CC! According to this article, it started in mid-1990's under the congress and presidency of the Democratic Party, and went into action as the congress turned to Republican control. When the Republicans warned of a problem and tried to implement regulatory measures, Democrats blocked the effort. Now that it's blown-up into an economic mess the Democrats point their fingers at the Republican-controlled government, and Obama repeatedly states that he inherited this mess from the previous administration. Just the sort of unconscionable conduct that I despise and the left defends! I also find this statement interesting for all the pro-regulation zealots on this forum: "...Darrell Duffie, an economist at Stanford...says, 'if you outlaw them, [Credit Default Swaps] then the financial engineers will just come up with something else that gets around the regulation.' As Wall Street..." Businesses always figure a way around regulations if it's at all possible. There's a lot of blame to go around, but the Commodities Future Modernization Act passed in December 2000 is most likely a leading cause of our crisis. This act was written by Phil Graham (a republican!) and pushed quickly through a lazy congress in December 21 of 2000, and offered the deregulation which made credit default swap investments possible. Likewise, when I think of Wall Street CEOs I don't picture left-wing socialists, but wealthy republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 There's a lot of blame to go around, but the Commodities Future Modernization Act passed in December 2000 is most likely a leading cause of our crisis. This act was written by Phil Graham (a republican!) and pushed quickly through a lazy congress in December 21 of 2000, and offered the deregulation which made credit default swap investments possible. Likewise, when I think of Wall Street CEOs I don't picture left-wing socialists, but wealthy republicans. So the article that you posted is wrong? It clearly states that it started in the mid-90's. It doesn't even mention the Commodities Future Modernization Act at all. So how does something 5 years after the fact start something? Granted, the CFMA could have exacerbated the situation, but it hardly started it. As far as Wall Street Republicans, I see them all as self-serving bastards who'll pander to whomever serves their best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 .....You may not like what they said but again it's all that precious document....and the things I saw and heard there, in session, committees, staff meetings, lunches, etc., made me proud to be an American.... The problem is, that Precious Document is being shred apart and "interpreted", and "penumbras" being grabbed from the air more and more everyday for the purpose of serving Liberal interests. What makes one person proud to be an American may not be the same things, based on the virtues and traditions on which that Precious Document is founded upon, that make others proud to be Americans. Just a few weeks ago, Liberal democrats mounted a direct attack on the Catholic Church and religious freedom overall here in CT, as an example. Sorry, but I have a serious problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I want to clear up one thing I am proud to be an American, but I am not proud of what America has become. You say we have reprensentation, I strongly disagree, I suppose you cast a vote on the stimulus bill, AIG, GM and Chrysler bailouts thats what I am talking about. The actions our elected officials have taken lately have so serverly impacted the future of our children and grandchildren I fear for them. If you feel that you were represented by the stimulus plan and all the bailout legislation and executive orders that were signed then you and I will never agree on the problem nor the solution. If this is CHANGE! then please keep it for yourself, consider it my contribution to the stimulus plan. If you read my posts you would find I agree with you on ALL those issues. I DO NOT however agree that our system is broken. Sure, it's as inefficient, but that's by design! It's been said that the most efficient government is a dictatorship. We have, again by design, a representative form of government not a direct democracy, and there is a reason for that. I'm "think" I'm pretty smart but I don't understand everything about derivatives, short selling, credit default swaps, international monetary policy, etc..etc..etc... so I elect representation to work these issues for me and do what they believe to be in the long term national interest. Sure at times we REALLY get it wrong...but we're 230 years and counting! Unless I am wrong I believe not a single government that existed in 1776 exists today except the United States of America. We live in a great country that I think achieves it's greatness, not in spite of it's imperfections, but because of them. I wouldn't change a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 The problem is, that Precious Document is being shred apart and "interpreted", and "penumbras" being grabbed from the air more and more everyday for the purpose of serving Liberal interests. Maybe you're thinking of "that Precious Document is being shred apart" with American citizens held without charges, the creation of new terms like "enemy combatants" with torture and secret prisons outside the US? Maybe it was the secret warrantless wiretapping? How about the contracting of military duties to civilian firms with almost total immunity from criminal prosecution and not subject to the UCMJ. Was it that shredding you were thinking about? No? Maybe it was the "I'm not a part of the executive branch" Vice-President" that rather than turn records over to the National Archives declared themselves a part of the legislative branch...there was all kinds of shredding going on there! What makes one person proud to be an American may not be the same things, based on the virtues and traditions on which that Precious Document is founded upon, that make others proud to be Americans. That's the beauty of the document and this country! People are FREE to believe as they wish even if it's direct opposition to the document itself! Gawd I love this country! Just a few weeks ago, Liberal democrats mounted a direct attack on the Catholic Church and religious freedom overall here in CT, as an example. Sorry, but I have a serious problem with that. I'm catholic and lived, until a few years ago lived in Stonington CT, where I was also Vice Chairman of the PLaning and Zoning, CT Cable TV Advisory Board, and Democratic Town Committee so I'd be very interested in hearing what's going on back home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormeaston Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 You can't really point fingers................our economy has had it's up's and down's for a 100 years, a down turn in our economy is nothing new. Had the economy never suffered a depression in that time (100years) then I would say we could point some fingers. Another thing I can say is that if we are going to come out of the depression, we the people have to do it, we can't depend on the government to do it, remember they majored in political science in college, not economics. We have to take the bull by the horns and buy that vehicle and take that vacation, and not listen to the half truths that the news media is putt'in out there. It's up to US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 If you read my posts you would find I agree with you on ALL those issues. I DO NOT however agree that our system is broken. Sure, it's as inefficient, but that's by design! It's been said that the most efficient government is a dictatorship. We have, again by design, a representative form of government not a direct democracy, and there is a reason for that. I'm "think" I'm pretty smart but I don't understand everything about derivatives, short selling, credit default swaps, international monetary policy, etc..etc..etc... so I elect representation to work these issues for me and do what they believe to be in the long term national interest. Sure at times we REALLY get it wrong...but we're 230 years and counting! Unless I am wrong I believe not a single government that existed in 1776 exists today except the United States of America. We live in a great country that I think achieves it's greatness, not in spite of it's imperfections, but because of them. I wouldn't change a thing! Very nice. Jeff, probably the best post I've read from you! (Not that I don't like your others ) You can't really point fingers................our economy has had it's up's and down's for a 100 years, a down turn in our economy is nothing new. Had the economy never suffered a depression in that time (100years) then I would say we could point some fingers. Another thing I can say is that if we are going to come out of the depression, we the people have to do it, we can't depend on the government to do it, remember they majored in political science in college, not economics. We have to take the bull by the horns and buy that vehicle and take that vacation, and not listen to the half truths that the news media is putt'in out there. It's up to US. The difference is that this time, the changes in laws and policy won't be so easy to incorporate into our lifestyle and still be the America that I want my grandchildren to inherit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rarecat Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (insert heavy sigh here :mad: ) I'm most discouraged how our country has become such a "victim" society where everybody wants to blame someone or something for anything bad that happens to them.... It's the Dems Fault It's the Republicans fault It's Clinton's fault It's Bush's fault It's Obama's fault It's Congress's fault It's Freddie Macs Fault It's my fault It's your fault Just choose which ever one makes you feel better and supports your position because the reality is that it's not any one of them and maybe a bit of all of them to blame Flame away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDT Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 You left out the Corrupt Corperate Bankers, Wall Street Insiders and the ALIENS????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraCrazy Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 (insert heavy sigh here :mad: ) I'm most discouraged how our country has become such a "victim" society where everybody wants to blame someone or something for anything bad that happens to them.... It's the Dems Fault It's the Republicans fault It's Clinton's fault It's Bush's fault It's Obama's fault It's Congress's fault It's Freddie Macs Fault It's my fault It's your fault Just choose which ever one makes you feel better and supports your position because the reality is that it's not any one of them and maybe a bit of all of them to blame Flame away... No flames. . . I think you make an excellent point. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rarecat Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 You left out the Corrupt Corperate Bankers, Wall Street Insiders and the ALIENS????? Absolutely, let's not forget the evil secret skull & bones society, the vatican, Osama Bin Laden, Iran and those pesky cabbage patch kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Doctor Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Absolutely, let's not forget the evil secret skull & bones society, the vatican, Osama Bin Laden, Iran and those pesky cabbage patch kids I hate Cabbage Patch Kids! The bastards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I hate Cabbage Patch Kids! The bastards! They're like carnies ya know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69dejavue Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Jeff; there have been enemy combatants forever. Only then we called them Prisoners of War. They have been held in POW camps and interrogated forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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