Obama and GUNS

[Hisssss]

Are you going to be carrying it?? (assuming that you get a permit and all that jazz) That’s a big consideration in choosing one. If you will be carrying then what type of build are you, this will be a major factor. 1911's are one of the safest guns ever made, if you know how to use it, if not it can be very dangerous, keep that in mind. Glocks are a good bet for someone that isn't real familiar with pistols, no odd safety features to remember while in a high stress state, just insert finger & squeeze. Caliber is personal preference with today’s ballistics, choose what you like.

I carry all the time, I’m slim, so I have always carry a compact (Colt commander or a Glock 30) that way I don't print so much like I do with a full size pistol. My next one will be an ultra compact, probably a Kimber. Just ask a lot of ??? at DIFFERENT gun shops and shoot a few different models like the guys have suggested above. But once again, the 1911 model pistols can be very dangerous if you aren’t properly trained with them, my two cents. H

[FiaCobra]

i understand the obama theory. buying them before some type of law coming down.

 

my take is, if u want to buy thinking obama will change things once he get into office, i recommend getting a riffle. he is more likely to ban assault type riffles than hand guns. banning hand guns to me is pretty much impossible, so u will always have the chance to buy a hand gun. on the other hand, assault riffles are different. remember the ban in 94 i believe? people back then were stocking the ak-47's like there was no tomorrow?

 

if u are buying a any gun base on the theory of obama banning something, please, buy an riffle. if u just want to buy a hand gun in general, thats cool too. lots of products out there. i personally like sigs and hk's.

 

as for riffles, i like sig's 556 line, and also arsenals.

 

 

I agree that so called "assault weapons" will be the 1st to be banned. If you need to go out and buy one now, you will pay a lot more than you should due to the panic buying going on right now. I can't find a Bulgarian AK anywhere and AR15's and AR15 lowers are sold out practically everywhere. It's a bad time to be in the market for one of these right now.

 

The second thing he'll go after is ammo. He'll tax the living crap out of it thus making it extremely expensive to shoot. Time is winding down for ammo stock piling.

[Afterburner]

I agree that so called "assault weapons" will be the 1st to be banned. If you need to go out and buy one now, you will pay a lot more than you should due to the panic buying going on right now. I can't find a Bulgarian AK anywhere and AR15's and AR15 lowers are sold out practically everywhere. It's a bad time to be in the market for one of these right now.

 

The second thing he'll go after is ammo. He'll tax the living crap out of it thus making it extremely expensive to shoot. Time is winding down for ammo stock piling.

 

You forgot to mention the federal ban he wants on conceal carry. Doesn't matter to me. If the criminals can do it, so can I. I never leave home without it.

[FordRocks1]

Glock 20C - Compensated 10mm and S&W 1006 10mm!!! I Love the 10mm round. It is balistically comparable to the .41 Magnum...shoots flat and on target...

 

Nice collection you got there Carl....Well, I love my Glock GAP .45-perfect size, hey, what's the saying?

45 to stay alive? I have a concealed permit and I do carry this behemoth on me. I highly doubt it that Mr.Obama will ever take our concealed permit away. We, who carry such a permit are doing the right thing by going through the proper ways to allow us to carry a weapon on us the legal way compared to the thugs that are out there who do the opposite. So by taking our permit away I believe there will be more problems because I for one will still carry it and so will most, I will not allow a thief or whatever to rob me or assault me or my family at gun point. While Mr. Obama is behind thousands of armed guards I am not so it is up to me to protect my life if it ever has to come to it.

In any case, Glocks are simple and have plenty of parts and upgrades. My Glock 37 has tritium night sights and a 3.5 trigger pull that was changed from the original 5.5lbs and it has made a big difference with accuracy not that it had any before. The GAP rounds are expensive compared to ACP rounds but the feel of a .45 GAP Glock to a .45 ACP Glock is the main difference and also with the rounds which still has the same kick of a .45 ACP but just a bit smaller casing.

 

[Evasive]

At the risk of upsetting some of the glock addicts it is my opinion grossly over rated. The city of New York had problems with thousands of glocks. Glock has a terrible system for disassembly where you have to pull the trigger to relieve the pressure on the striker and many, many people have shot themselves or others because of this design. Now someone will jump up and say it is is the users fault. Yes, but if the weapon had a mag safety disconnect like Smith and Wesson, or the new Ruger, or some Sigs then it would not happen. If you want more info re glock malfunctions go to google and type in glock kaboom.

 

1. Always treat any weapon as if it is loaded. The NY people did not do this. They failed gun safety for dummies. They would probably be too lazy to use the available key lock safety too: http://www.glock.com/english/index_safety.htm They elected Sen. Clinton too...go figure

2. Glocks are reliable and safe if you use them as they are meant to. Take the kaboom thing with a grain of salt too.

 

 

If you are trying to beat the Obama buying rush on hi-cap mags or AR/AK variants, you are about a year too late. Same with ammo. Handguns are moving quickly too.

[clark17357]

I used a 1911 for my expert pistol shot qualification. Nice weapon, fun to shoot! Wish I had one but I hardly have enough time, or money, for my current hobbies.

And, there would be the little problem of it being illegal for you to own a handgun in Chicago. Jeff, are you coming to Vegas in 2009? If so, looking forward to seeing you.

Jim

[gordyd4]

TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING!!!

 

SHOT PLACEMENT SHOT PLACEMENT SHOT PLACEMENT!!!

 

Think a 9mm doesn't pack enough "knockdown power"? Then how would you feel about being shot with one?

 

 

+1,000,000!

[stormeaston]

I am looking for some advise with regards to purchasing a hand gun. This will be my first hand gun and I am looking for a .45 caliber. Do any of you own a Kimber, Glock, SIG ? I can spend $1,000.00 so share your experience.

 

Thanks

 

 

Get yourself a nice 22 cal. auto like a Ruger or Browning and start out with that. Get use to it,( trigger pull, how they handle, etc.) and then buy yourself a 45. When I first turned 21 I bought a Colt Diamonback in 38 spec. I couldn't hit crap with it at first, it was very frustrating, a friend recommended a 22 auto, so I bought a Ruger T512 and learned how to shoot with that, and so the gun collection started with the purchase of those two guns. Have fun and be safe!

[stormeaston]

Oh..............and now my feelings on Obamba..............he won't do didle on health care, no tax relief, we'll take a screw'n on the bailouts, and the economy will still suck, but the Democrats will pass some Brady style gun law, because thats the only thing they will be able to all agree on.

[BanditSRT8]

A lot of good thoughts thus far and here's my 2c.

 

1. As suggested, find a range that will rent a variety of weapons and get training using the one that your instructor best fits your grip. It will make a big difference. For that reason, I stopped shooting Glock and bought a Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm. The ergonomics were simply better for my particular grip. The M&P series comes with 3 interchangable backstraps to best fit a variety of hands.

 

2. What will you being doing with it? If you have a reason for concealed carry, pick a weapon that allows you to do that....conceal.

 

3. After you spend some time on the range, determine if you you prefer a double or single action if you're looking at an auto. Many moons ago, I was in law enforcement and managed to develop a, uh, over-active "respect" for single action weapons. Why? Because I personally know two people who have shot themselves with one by accident and another cop that managed to have his fire in a friends kitchen and trash a batch of dishes and put a hole in a cabinet. The "cocked and locked" ready position is great in theory but &*^% happens. So much for a thumb and backstrap safety to both be required to have it fire. So...as for me...double action. Your call, and many will argue for the SAA. Many of today's double actions don't require the action to pull an exposed hammer back and this results in a more fluid, single action-like trigger pull.

 

4. Caliber. You want home protection? Buy a shotgun. You want convenience? Buy a handgun and become proficient with it. I've never been a fan of the 9mm, but as was previously suggested there are some newer very efficient rounds available. Plus, they're a ton more affordable for practice. Hornady makes a great hollow-point that makes the 9 effective. When you can place two "center mass" and one high, it won't matter if you're shooting a pellet gun. Practice!!! The .40 is a good round, but is very limited as to available types. Even more so for the 10mm. I've come around on the 9mm and like mine a lot.

 

www.budsgunshop.com has probably the most competitive pricing in the country. I picked up the M&P not more than 90 days ago, and it's already gone up $100 due to demand.

 

Be safe.

 

bj

 

VERY good advice here. Saved me a lot of typing

 

Here's some more to add to it....

 

As a first gun, a .45ACP may not be the best decision. For some it does work out, but you do need to go shoot some first to decide your caliber preference.

 

IF a .45 is for you (fine choice) I would not recommend a 1911 style gun for a first time gun owner. Too easy to make a mistake, and it has a somewhat complex manual of arms for a "n00b". Carrying a single action trigger cocked n locked is not the prime choice for a new shooter.

 

IF you decide that a 1911 best suits you, stay away from Kimber at all costs. Now before the Kimber huggers jump in here.... yes, you COULD get a good Kimber, but the odds are stacked against you, and at a general price of a grand... it ain't worth the hassle. Oh, here's some proof:

 

Go do a search on ANY gun forum out there for "Kimber" or "Kimber quality", you'll see what I mean.

 

Also, read this first: http://full-auto.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=54

 

 

I won't get into the Glock thing because 69dejavue and I vehemently disagree, and I don't want to go there again. Just know that Glocks DO indeed have safeties, and are in every way just as safe as a revolver. If you're not an idjit and you keep your finger off the trigger... it cannot discharge. They are also proven to be at the top of the reliability scale across the entire brand. No other company in the firearm industry can say that.

 

So do some test driving, and figure out what suits you best. It may be a Taurus 24/7 that I would not want, or you could hate the HK P7M8 that I love dearly... we're all different.

 

As far as the Obama thing goes... very, very few pistols will be banned, but the prices will go up, and they will go back to getting 10 round magazines. Then you'll have to pay $100 for a $20 hi-cap magazine that was grandfathered in... supply and demand at its finest I'm afraid. The most restrictions will be on rifles (again) so if you EVER wanted an AR type rifle, you'd better be buying now.

 

Obama also plans to impose an ammunition tax as high as (but unlikely to be) 500%.

[Boss Doctor]

I think the best advice is to go to the ranges that rent guns, and try as many different .45's as you can before making an expensive decision. You don't want to get buyer's remorse because you discovered something that you don't really like about the weapon, or discover something that you like better on another weapon. Also, many people buy expensive weapons that mostly gather dust somewhere in their home after they've ran a couple of hundred rounds through it. There are abundant advertisements selling used guns that have had "...only a 100 rounds..." fired through them.

 

I have a S&W M&P in both .45 and 9mm sub-compact. I'm very pleased with both, and they cost $550 each. The .45 is like a Glock with a safety added.

[Afterburner]

1. Always treat any weapon as if it is loaded. The NY people did not do this. They failed gun safety for dummies. They would probably be too lazy to use the available key lock safety too: http://www.glock.com/english/index_safety.htm They elected Sen. Clinton too...go figure

2. Glocks are reliable and safe if you use them as they are meant to. Take the kaboom thing with a grain of salt too.

 

 

If you are trying to beat the Obama buying rush on hi-cap mags or AR/AK variants, you are about a year too late. Same with ammo. Handguns are moving quickly too.

Couldn't agree more on the safety issue. I was going to respond to that statement yesterdy but didn't have time. #1 rule... Always treat the weapon as it is LOADED! Remove the magazine and rack the slide to eject a round and then rack it again and lock it open to visually check it is empty all while pointing the weapon in a safe direction and your finger is outside the trigger guard. These habits have to become second nature if you are going to handle firearms. As far as Glocks go, I have a 17 which was my first handgun. Have fired thousands of rounds through it without a hiccup except for some subsonic ammo my neighbor gave me once. It is too big for me to CC so it is for home defense. For CC I have a Kahr CW9 which has been 100% reliable and is light and easy to carry. Also have a Colt Gold Cup National Match which is a real tack driver but again it's just too big for my slim frame to CC.

[JeffIsHereToo]

And, there would be the little problem of it being illegal for you to own a handgun in Chicago. Jeff, are you coming to Vegas in 2009? If so, looking forward to seeing you.

Jim

 

 

I don't live in the city proper, dumb law anyway and likely going to cost the city millions in legal fees it doesn't have, and still the murder rate goes up. Criminals will always get guns...yes there will be a few nut cases that grab a gun and do something in a fit of passion, but if not the gun something else and to restrict everyone's right to have a gun because someone might use it to kill is silly when we have people running people down in cars. Sure the gun is meant to do one thing, and I am VERY sensitive to the rational of those that want to ban them, but it can be a defensive weapon as well. I'm not in support of fully automatic weapons, and I support smaller clips for semi-automatic weapons, but I don't support wholesale banning of handguns or any other guns, outside the above, anywhere. Much can be learned from the objections raised by some and we should listen to those and work to mitigate the issues where possible. Mandatory training, gun safe, trigger locks, etc., are some that come to mind but again banning, to me, is wrong.

[08SGT1977]

Having laws that support gun ownership is a good thing, even if one chooses to not own any guns. Having the law itself is a deterrent to crime as the would be criminal does not know if I am a gun owner or not. The fact that I could be a gun owner is a a deterrent.

[Afterburner]

This is an excellent book and a fast read. I happened to see it at the library one day. It's called "The Seven Myths about Gun Control" by Richard Poe. It's backed up with actual statistics from government sources. One of the more interesting statistics was how the gun control orginazations scream about how many children die from guns each year. What they don't tell you is that they count children as old as twenty and include gangbangers killing each other. When you whittle down the numbers, it shows that less than two hundred children are killed by guns and that more are killed each year riding their bicycles.

[CRQuarto]

Agreed, if this is indeed your first handgun, go take some classes first, test a few at the range, don't just up and buy one without educating yourself first. Honestly, I would buy two...buy yourself a nice little .22L target pistol (I love my Browning Buckmark), and something for home defense such as an H&K USP .40 for the happy medium between the 9mm and .45

 

EDUCATE YOURSELF, PLEASE. Invest in a nice handgun safe with a four finger keypad that can be opened extremely quick.

[69dejavue]

Bandit and I disagree but I am glad we can do so as adults. We each have our own experiences and opinions. But I think we can all agree that you must practice, practice, practice.

 

One, probably unintended result, of the 10 round magazine limit for pistols is people started swtiching from 9mms to 45s. If they could only have 10 rounds then it would be a 45. And a 45 is a tremendous fight stopper.

 

But get expert advice, not just someone that is extremely prejudiced towards one caliber or one make. Read as much as you can and practice. And remember firearm ownership is a tremendous responsibility and while accidental shootings of children have dropped dramatically they still occur. Don't let it happen in your family. You may also wish to have a hammerless or shrouded hammer revolver. Less to get caught on something. And most importantly know your local and state laws. Know when you can shoot and most imporantly when you cannnot. There is very little in this world worth going to prison over. Except your rights, and every has to make a decision when that time comes. Lets hope it never comes to this country. BTW- Hillary is also very anti gun and will be Sec of State. The UN has previously tried to implement a small arms ban around the world, including the US, in the past. We will have to remain ever vigilant.

 

Bandit, I am glad we are handling our difference of opinion in this fashion. Thank you. 69

[69dejavue]

I am looking for some advise with regards to purchasing a hand gun. This will be my first hand gun and I am looking for a .45 caliber. Do any of you own a Kimber, Glock, SIG ? I can spend $1,000.00 so share your experience.

 

Thanks

 

If you can afford 1K get two high quality weapons. If you are married make sure it is something your wife will be comfortable with, at least one of the pistols. I cannot emphasize buying premium HP ammo and not just hollow points. The old style HPs do not open up reliably if going through barriers such as wallboard, denim clothing, layered clothing, etc.

 

good luck.

[CH53Driver]

69,

 

Lot's of good advice on here. I know that you and Bandit disagree on the Glock thing. Personally, I agree with Bandit on this one. You have stated that many people have "accidently" shot themselves with the Glock because it is a poor design. So I have to ask you how many people have shot themselves "accidently" with guns that were of a good design (and by your definition this would include such things as internal mag safety disconnects, external safety's, etc)? I bet you more people have shot themselves "accidently" with "good designs" than ones with "poor designs". They key is training, training and training! Always follow the safety rules and never allow yourself to be lazy and/or negligent in handling a weapon. How many times have you heard "I thought the safety was on"? At least with the Glock, it removes such a lame excuse and when it comes time to use it in a moment of stress, I only need point and squeeze. Kind of like a dual action revolver no?

[Boss Doctor]

69,

 

Lot's of good advice on here. I know that you and Bandit disagree on the Glock thing. Personally, I agree with Bandit on this one. You have stated that many people have "accidently" shot themselves with the Glock because it is a poor design. So I have to ask you how many people have shot themselves "accidently" with guns that were of a good design (and by your definition this would include such things as internal mag safety disconnects, external safety's, etc)? I bet you more people have shot themselves "accidently" with "good designs" than ones with "poor designs". They key is training, training and training! Always follow the safety rules and never allow yourself to be lazy and/or negligent in handling a weapon. How many times have you heard "I thought the safety was on"? At least with the Glock, it removes such a lame excuse and when it comes time to use it in a moment of stress, I only need point and squeeze. Kind of like a dual action revolver no?

 

There are numerous cases of accidental discharges of revolvers. Any gun is dangerous IF the handler isn't paying attention, IMHO.

[VNMOUS1]

There are numerous cases of accidental discharges of revolvers. Any gun is dangerous IF the handler isn't paying attention, IMHO.

 

My M&P 9 has neither the internal lock nor the mag disconnect. It's therefore a little like a Glock. My "safety" is my right forefinger never being on the trigger until it's time to squeeze.

 

All the "accidental discharge" stuff was all over the news today (no doubt as follow ups to Plaxico). One guy accidentally shot his girlfriend or wife in the freaking chest while having sex. Google it. It's worth it.

 

Another was a cop doing a gun safety lesson (I think it was to his own kid). He had one chambered and shot himself in the leg.

 

What a bunch of buffoons. Did you see the You Tube thing where the cop shoots himself in a school setting while doing a "training" talk?

 

I don't get it. But then again, I don't get how pilots can run out of gas in airplanes either. Or how scuba divers run out of air. I fly planes, I dive, I shoot guns. There is a direct correlation in that they can all kill you in an instant if you don't follow strict and specific protocols. It's pretty simple. Follow the rules.

 

bj

[Boss Doctor]

My M&P 9 has neither the internal lock nor the mag disconnect. It's therefore a little like a Glock. My "safety" is my right forefinger never being on the trigger until it's time to squeeze.

 

All the "accidental discharge" stuff was all over the news today (no doubt as follow ups to Plaxico). One guy accidentally shot his girlfriend or wife in the freaking chest while having sex. Google it. It's worth it.

 

Another was a cop doing a gun safety lesson (I think it was to his own kid). He had one chambered and shot himself in the leg.

 

What a bunch of buffoons. Did you see the You Tube thing where the cop shoots himself in a school setting while doing a "training" talk?

 

I don't get it. But then again, I don't get how pilots can run out of gas in airplanes either. Or how scuba divers run out of air. I fly planes, I dive, I shoot guns. There is a direct correlation in that they can all kill you in an instant if you don't follow strict and specific protocols. It's pretty simple. Follow the rules.

 

bj

 

I also have a M&P 9mm sub-compact. Having no safety on it just makes me mindful to be more careful, but I'm mindful to be careful when handling a pistol with a safety. I'm also not stupid enough to carry it in a pocket, (rather than a holster), and finger-fu@k it like Plaxico reportedly did. I bought a Smart Carry holster for it because it's the pistol that I carry concealed. If someone doesn't know what that is, it's a holster that straps around your waist under your belt line and the pistol is held right in front of your junk between your skivvies and pants. It's position sure keeps you mindful to keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot!

[GT500SC07]

Are you going to be carrying it?? (assuming that you get a permit and all that jazz) That’s a big consideration in choosing one. If you will be carrying then what type of build are you, this will be a major factor. 1911's are one of the safest guns ever made, if you know how to use it, if not it can be very dangerous, keep that in mind. Glocks are a good bet for someone that isn't real familiar with pistols, no odd safety features to remember while in a high stress state, just insert finger & squeeze. Caliber is personal preference with today’s ballistics, choose what you like.

I carry all the time, I’m slim, so I have always carry a compact (Colt commander or a Glock 30) that way I don't print so much like I do with a full size pistol. My next one will be an ultra compact, probably a Kimber. Just ask a lot of ??? at DIFFERENT gun shops and shoot a few different models like the guys have suggested above. But once again, the 1911 model pistols can be very dangerous if you aren’t properly trained with them, my two cents. H

Thanks for the great information and advise, I bought a Glock 30 SF. The grip on this gun is slightly smaller and it fits my hand much better.

[Grunnsetning]

H&K USP .45 Tactical.. It's wonderful.

[VNMOUS1]

Thanks for the great information and advise, I bought a Glock 30 SF. The grip on this gun is slightly smaller and it fits my hand much better.

 

Oh, yeah...I forgot to mention Glocks are a pain in the ass to break down compared to the M&P. Ooopsie, sorry I was late.

 

 

bj

[Boss Doctor]

Oh, yeah...I forgot to mention Glocks are a pain in the ass to break down compared to the M&P. Ooopsie, sorry I was late.

 

 

bj

 

And the M&P has three palm swells to choose from. That's fantastic with my big'ol paws! :happy feet:

[69dejavue]

Now you need practice ammo and carry ammo. I suggest the Federal Hydra Shok, or the new Federal HST. or Winchester Ranger or SXT, or CCI Gold Dot, Remington Golden Sabre. The new Cor Bon DPX also looks promising. Refer to the FBI barrier testing protocols. Good Luck and be safe. Get instructions and get advice including legal advice.!!!!!!!!

[BanditSRT8]

Oh, yeah...I forgot to mention Glocks are a pain in the ass to break down compared to the M&P. Ooopsie, sorry I was late.

 

 

bj

 

 

?? Doesn't get much easier than the Glock takedown.

 

Well, when the M&P's quit showing rust and mags stop dropping out by accident... then maybe (maybe) they'll gain the legendary reputation that Glock has.

 

But I doubt it very much.

 

Nice guns, but not in the same league as Glock.

[Afterburner]

?? Doesn't get much easier than the Glock takedown.

 

Well, when the M&P's quit showing rust and mags stop dropping out by accident... then maybe (maybe) they'll gain the legendary reputation that Glock has.

 

But I doubt it very much.

 

Nice guns, but not in the same league as Glock.

 

I agree on the Glock takedown. Takes about three seconds but I think he meant a complete takedown beyond a normal cleaning.

[Boss Doctor]

?? Doesn't get much easier than the Glock takedown.

 

Well, when the M&P's quit showing rust and mags stop dropping out by accident... then maybe (maybe) they'll gain the legendary reputation that Glock has.

 

But I doubt it very much.

 

Nice guns, but not in the same league as Glock.

 

I have had zero problems with either of my M&P's unless you count the magazine spring in the .45 being so strong that it's a struggle to slide in the last round.