vipereatr Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Record profits of $14 billion - record tax payments to the U.S. of $30 billion. Isn't that Obama's dream - pay more taxes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Record profits of $14 billion - record tax payments to the U.S. of $30 billion. Isn't that Obama's dream - pay more taxes? Wrong! The $14 billion is a quarterly AFTER TAX number the $30 billion is an ANNUAL number. In 2006 Exxon had a $39.5 billion AFTER TAX profit and paid $28 billion in taxes, in 2007 Exxon earned 41.6 billion in AFTER TAX profit and paid $30 Billion in taxes. So that means that Exxon's actual profit is even almost double what we're talking about here if you tax the taxes out. So Exxon earned roughly $25 billion before tax profit just this quarter and is on track for a $100 billion dollar year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipereatr Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Uh oh - dueling sources. "Last year" refers to 2007, "they" to Exxon Mobil. While they were recording record profits last year, they were also writing checks to Uncle Sam to the tune of $100.7 billion -- two and a half times what they made in net profit. In fact, previous Tax Foundation research found that from 1977 to 2004, federal and state governments extracted $397 billion by taxing the profits of the largest oil companies and an additional $1.1 trillion in taxes at the pump. In today's dollars, that's $2.2 trillion. Do you expect it to be different this year? My expectations for "Change I Can Believe In" (if He is elected) is for pump prices to go up even if oil prices are falling so that Obama can fund his trillions in new spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I noticed a lot of people like to point out that Exxon's as the #2 US company is earning a profit of only 10% of revenues, they don't say that this is while #1 WalMart is earning a meager 3.5% of revenue. Mostly due to increased transportation costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Uh oh - dueling sources. "Last year" refers to 2007, "they" to Exxon Mobil. While they were recording record profits last year, they were also writing checks to Uncle Sam to the tune of $100.7 billion -- two and a half times what they made in net profit. In fact, previous Tax Foundation research found that from 1977 to 2004, federal and state governments extracted $397 billion by taxing the profits of the largest oil companies and an additional $1.1 trillion in taxes at the pump. In today's dollars, that's $2.2 trillion. Do you expect it to be different this year? My expectations for "Change I Can Believe In" (if He is elected) is for pump prices to go up even if oil prices are falling so that Obama can fund his trillions in new spending. So? I'm not following how this changes anything. We paid $4 gas because the oil companies said it was a market issue and that they had to raise prices to those levels. Fine so how do you explain RECORD profit and not flat or declining profit when the prices increases were to keep pace with costs? If my costs are going up and I'm telling people I'm only raising prices to cover my costs, while customer demand decreases, then how then does my profit then skyrocket? Let's not forget that last quarter Exxon had, up until that time, the largest profit on record too. Seems things get better and better for Exxon as things get worse and worse for everyone else. BTW: yes, the taxes went to people sitting home doing nothing in the Socilist State of Alaska! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Where Jeff is concerned, your wasting you breath. He knows all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Where Jeff is concerned, your wasting you breath. He knows all No, I don't but apparently you do! Maybe you can explain to me how keeping pace with costs in your business brings record profit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moabman Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Wrong! The $14 billion is a quarterly AFTER TAX number the $30 billion is an ANNUAL number. In 2006 Exxon had a $39.5 billion AFTER TAX profit and paid $28 billion in taxes, in 2007 Exxon earned 41.6 billion in AFTER TAX profit and paid $30 Billion in taxes. So that means that Exxon's actual profit is even almost double what we're talking about here if you tax the taxes out. So Exxon earned roughly $25 billion before tax profit just this quarter and is on track for a $100 billion dollar year. You haven't exactly told the whole story have you Jeff? For this quarter ExxonMobil has: Total revenue $137.7 Billion Total costs $111.5 Billion IBIT $26.1 Billion (Income Before Income Tax) Income Taxes $11.3 Billion (NOT ALL taxes) Net Income $14.8 Billion (Profit) This is the same as you have reported but if you look a little farther you will find this: Income Tax $11.3 Billion Sales based taxes $9.3 Billion All other taxes $11.9 Billion Total taxes $32.5 Billion In plain English the total taxes are 3x what you sated. As far as your prediction for the full year, they have earned before taxes $68,555 billion for the first 9 months of this year and that means that they will have to earn $31.445 billion in the final quarter. Considering that they only earned $26.1 billion this quarter when prices reached their highest, I think it would be safe to say that they will not earn the $100 billion that you claim. Finally, what is wrong with earning $100 billion IBIT? They are spending at a rate of more than that each quarter. They spent $111.5 billion this last quarter. As for your arguement that the profits were record when the market was declining, the market declined during the second half of the quarter but it hit record highs during the first part of the quarter in June. The average price that they received was a record after you average all the swings out. Rest assured that it will be different this final quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moabman Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Where Jeff is concerned, your wasting you breath. He knows all I find very little "moderate" in this moderator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 I hope they profit more, I have XOM stock!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 You haven't exactly told the whole story have you Jeff? For this quarter ExxonMobil has: Total revenue $137.7 Billion Total costs $111.5 Billion IBIT $26.1 Billion (Income Before Income Tax) Income Taxes $11.3 Billion (NOT ALL taxes) Net Income $14.8 Billion (Profit) This is the same as you have reported but if you look a little farther you will find this: Income Tax $11.3 Billion Sales based taxes $9.3 Billion All other taxes $11.9 Billion Total taxes $32.5 Billion In plain English the total taxes are 3x what you sated. As far as your prediction for the full year, they have earned before taxes $68,555 billion for the first 9 months of this year and that means that they will have to earn $31.445 billion in the final quarter. Considering that they only earned $26.1 billion this quarter when prices reached their highest, I think it would be safe to say that they will not earn the $100 billion that you claim. Finally, what is wrong with earning $100 billion IBIT? They are spending at a rate of more than that each quarter. They spent $111.5 billion this last quarter. As for your arguement that the profits were record when the market was declining, the market declined during the second half of the quarter but it hit record highs during the first part of the quarter in June. The average price that they received was a record after you average all the swings out. Rest assured that it will be different this final quarter. Sales based and other taxes are not included in either the top or bottom numbers because they are passed on to...yep, you guessed it, consumers, or in this case and distributors or refineries! Exxon merely collects the sales taxes and remits to the states! That's why they are not counted on the balance sheet as part of the cost of sales or general administrative. BTW: I would guess you are correct and things will be different this quarter, a smaller profit, but I still believe Exxon and others took advantage of us during that period and jacked up prices far far higher than simple costs dictated and that is my issue. Businesses and people were REALLY hurting and Exxon and the others obviously did very little for the common good worse they seem to have gone beyond in their quest for profit. That is my issue. I don't fault them for making $$$ that's why they are in business! It's how they went about getting this RECORD profit I have serious concerns about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerGmc Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I think we need another congressional investigation. That would make it the 34th time they found nothing. Wouldn't change anyones mind, but hey, what's new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I think we need another congressional investigation. That would make it the 34th time they found nothing. Wouldn't change anyones mind, but hey, what's new? The should investigate again when they are making little to no profits in the next quarter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 The should investigate again when they are making little to no profits in the next quarter! Wanna bet they don't have a nice profit? I think we should start an Exxon fund! Let's give'um a few extra $$$ help them get through a few 5-6 billion dollar profit quarters. Come on! :happy feet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerGmc Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Profit is the general idea for a business and it's stockholders one would think. 10.2% of sales profit is kinda low actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Profit is the general idea for a business and it's stockholders one would think. 10.2% of sales profit is kinda low actually. Wal-Mart is 3.5% and when I worked at CDW we were around 3-5% as well. Exxon sells a commodity not a owned product that commands high margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerGmc Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Oh! Its's a commodity. Well that settles it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 sorry M, Chevron's 3Q profit soars on oil prices, http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081031/earns_chevron.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moabman Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 How did you miss CononcoPhillips three days ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I'd be more sympathetic towards Exxon/Mobil if they hadn't made some misleading statements when they were seeking government approval of their merger. Statements like the merger would bring about "economies of scale" and result in lower consumer prices. Instead of that happening, it resulted in record profits and salaries. I think were getting screwed. Last week on 'The Factor', they had a chart showing the price of oil had dropped 48% but the price of gas had only dropped 29%. Don't blame me, I report, you decide. That program also featured the famous oil expert, Tyson Slocum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 How did you miss CononcoPhillips three days ago? may have been working for a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I think we need another congressional investigation. That would make it the 34th time they found nothing. Wouldn't change anyones mind, but hey, what's new? I wouldn't agree that they found 'nothing'. They just didn't find anything illegal. That tells me that the rules need to be tightened. How would you expect congressmen who take campaign contributions from the oil companies to effectively investigate them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshaeffer Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I find this whole discussion interesting. It's odd that some people think Exxon's 10.2% net profit is gouging when Apple and Microsoft's net profit is nearly 3 time as much (on a percentage basis). Yet, no one complains that the government is making much more on the oil (your gasoline) through corporate taxes, as well as on the direct gasoline tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerGmc Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I find this whole discussion interesting. It's odd that some people think Exxon's 10.2% net profit is gouging when Apple and Microsoft's net profit is nearly 3 time as much (on a percentage basis). Yet, no one complains that the government is making much more on the oil (your gasoline) through corporate taxes, as well as on the direct gasoline tax. I don't. Class envy is all the rage these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500-07 Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Crude heads for worst monthly Nymex decline Oil prices slipped below $65 a barrel Friday, heading for what will likely become the sharpest monthly decline in crude prices since futures trading began on the New York Mercantile Exchange. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081031/oil_prices.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporDude Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 If they try to keep the price of a barrel of up, that is more profit for Exxon or whomever distributes the product. It's just simple math. If a gallon of gas cost lets just say $1.25 and the profit percentage is 10.2 percent, then the price of gas to the gas station will be $1.3775 not including delivery. That is a profit of 12.775 cents per gallon. If a gallon of gas cost $3.50 with the same profit percentage, then the gallon of gas would cost the gas station $3.857. That is a profit of 35.7 cents per gallon. Nearly 3 times more profit. If you keep your profit margins the same, the more expensive a barrel cost, the more profit you can have. That is how they get away with more profits during hard times on consumers then when it goes the way of the consumer. I think they need to adjust the profit margins temporarily when prices are so high on a barrel but that isn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I find this whole discussion interesting. It's odd that some people think Exxon's 10.2% net profit is gouging when Apple and Microsoft's net profit is nearly 3 time as much (on a percentage basis). Yet, no one complains that the government is making much more on the oil (your gasoline) through corporate taxes, as well as on the direct gasoline tax. Apple and Microsoft invent something. They create products that are unique and if you want an Apple you pay $$$$ to get one. On the other hand, as I have already said, oil is a COMMODITY. Meaning there is nothing special about Exxon oil vs. Shell oil. So you can't demand high margins! Companies that deal in commodity products shoot for low costs and high volume to make money. Apple and Microsoft can fewer items and a higher margin because if customers want the Mac OS or Windows there is only one place to get it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity For a commodity seller 10.5% is REALLY good but Exxon throws out companies like Apple when talking about this stuff in public because people don't know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moabman Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Because you believe there is nothing special about ExxonMobil oil or Shell oil, please list any one of the top 5 innovations in the last 15 years in the field of oil & gas exploration Jeff. Ditto for refining. Jeff, it's not the oil itself, it is the expertise in being able to find, develop, produce, refine, and market that makes the difference. It is time to consider what we might have been paying, if that expertise was not there. As painful as this summer was, it could have been worse. Corn is corn right? Wheat is wheat? I for one, however, am grateful for the expertise that Archer Daniels Midland and a whole host of the agri-businesses have brought to our farming industry. I may not be happy when I have to pay more for corn or pork or bread but I also realize that it could be worse; much, much, worse especially when viewed from a global perspective - as in famine. Just as there have been tremendous efficiencies introduced in farming, there have likewise been efficiencies introduced in the petroleum industry. Our companies rank right up there with the world leaders when it comes to invention, innovation, and discovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffIsHereToo Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Because you believe there is nothing special about ExxonMobil oil or Shell oil, please list any one of the top 5 innovations in the last 15 years in the field of oil & gas exploration Jeff. Ditto for refining. Jeff, it's not the oil itself, it is the expertise in being able to find, develop, produce, refine, and market that makes the difference. It is time to consider what we might have been paying, if that expertise was not there. As painful as this summer was, it could have been worse. Corn is corn right? Wheat is wheat? I for one, however, am grateful for the expertise that Archer Daniels Midland and a whole host of the agri-businesses have brought to our farming industry. I may not be happy when I have to pay more for corn or pork or bread but I also realize that it could be worse; much, much, worse especially when viewed from a global perspective - as in famine. Just as there have been tremendous efficiencies introduced in farming, there have likewise been efficiencies introduced in the petroleum industry. Our companies rank right up there with the world leaders when it comes to invention, innovation, and discovery. All the above you said is true...but the fact is OIL IS JUST OIL, CORN IS JUST CORN and WHEAT IS JUST WHEAT! There is one market for each and one price. It's not Exxon oil today is $74 a barrel, Shell oil is $65 a barrel, etc., that's not the way the commodity markets work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGT500 Posted November 1, 2008 Report Share Posted November 1, 2008 If oil is just oil, and the Exxon/Mobil merger was going to produce 'economy of scale', why do the Mobil stations near me have the highest price gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.