Bullit's cold air kit....

[LuLu]

If you're done making HP its time to shift obviously, if you are making HP right up to redline well thats obvious to :D

 

Funally...Some real world data to work with! Page 68 of Feb. MM&FF, DynoJet numbers via JDM on a bone stock Bullit;

 

"With of factory cold-air induction and improved exhaust, Bullitt belted out 288 HP at 5100 to 6100 RPM, and 308 lb. ft. of torque at 4300 RPM."

 

There's your power band gents. I am sure that if there was any more power to be had over 6100 RPM, JDM would have reached for it.

[ilmor]

Ilmor how can you say that? You have never got your car past 4000 RPMS, even on a straight away, in first gear, with dry roads, with only you in the car etc...etc...! :D Now go ahead and flame me but I was just joking :D -

 

Whatchu talkin about???

 

Funally...Some real world data to work with! Page 68 of Feb. MM&FF, DynoJet numbers via JDM on a bone stock Bullit;

 

"With of factory cold-air induction and improved exhaust, Bullitt belted out 288 HP at 5100 to 6100 RPM, and 308 lb. ft. of torque at 4300 RPM."

 

There's your power band gents. I am sure that if there was any more power to be had over 6100 RPM, JDM would have reached for it.

 

 

So, if I recall some other dyno runs, this is more hp and torque than an SGT, correct?

 

What e.t. / mph did the Bullit manage in the MM/FF article?

[69dejavue]

Everyone keeps talking about the 65-66 Shelby GT 350 and about how things had improved had they waited. Obviously not everyone knows the history. In 67-68 Ford softened the suspension and eventually added air conditioning; There were complaints about the stiff Schieffer clutch so it went away. By 69 it was only a glorified Mach 1 and by 70 the sales were so poor it was the last year. They actually took 69s and put on the new grille and tail lights and called it a 70 Shelby.

 

Bottom line is we bought the name and it has about 320 HP. If you want more, well; as the old saying goes; speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

 

The original 289 had about 306 and that was probably optimistic. The 281 has at least 319 and a lot more creature comforts. Again, if you want it to go faster open the wallet, but open the wallet with a plan. A simple SC will give more than enough HP and torque but some will still complain when the new camaro and challger hit the streets possibly with more. Bottom line it is a 281 cid modular motor, we knew, or should have known, what we were buying. Lots of potential, but be prepared to open the wallet.

[ilmor]

Actually, the original 289 had "306", but the HP figures were obtained differently in those days (SAE Gross). If that motor were rated by the EPA in the same manner as our current 281 (SAE net) I believe the HP numbers would be lower. So, you really can't compare the two numbers, as I understand it.

[AFBLUE]

Here's a neat article comparing a 1966 GT 350 to a 2001 Mustang GT.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/feat..._350/index.html

In the article it says the GT 350 weighed 3140 with the driver and did the 1/4 mile in 14.87@94.13mph

 

Using a horsepower calculator like this one (this is one of many online) http://www.dragtimes.com/horsepower-et-tra...epower+Estimate

 

The GT 350 had 196.57 hp at the crank.

 

If you plug in the Shelby GT data from a Car & Driver test sheet (3540lbs + full tank + driver comes to about 3840lbs, + 13.7@104mph) you get 316.14 hp at the crank

[ilmor]

From these two articles I obtained the following information:

 

Bullitt (3.73 rear) - 0-60 5.2 secs; 1/4 mile 13.8 @ 102.1; skidpad .84 G

 

SGT (3.55 rear) - 0-60 5.1 secs; 1/4 mile 13.7 @ 104; skidpad .92 G

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/assets/downloa...orshelby_ts.pdf

 

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=123327

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Funally...Some real world data to work with! Page 68 of Feb. MM&FF, DynoJet numbers via JDM on a bone stock Bullit;

 

"With of factory cold-air induction and improved exhaust, Bullitt belted out 288 HP at 5100 to 6100 RPM, and 308 lb. ft. of torque at 4300 RPM."

 

There's your power band gents. I am sure that if there was any more power to be had over 6100 RPM, JDM would have reached for it.

 

This 6500 RPM's really had you going huh LuLu! :D

[AFBLUE]

Doug at BamaChips tests the Bullitt CAI. C&L Racer CAI actually performs better.

http://forums.bradbarnett.net/showthread.php?t=75262

 

First I started with the car completely stock with the stock airbox and stock tune and made a surprising 269 rwhp and 285 rwtq, this is actually a little high but for a stock tune it is what it is. Most make 260-265rwhp and 280-285 rwtq.

 

Next I installed the Bullitt intake and my high octane tune adjustments and set the a/f around 12.7-12.9 and it made 280 rwhp and 305 rwtq at best, it made a few lower Hp numbers but these are the best.

 

Finally I reinstalled the C&L Racer intake and used the EXACT same tune as far as spark timing and commanded a/f goes and we made 288 rwhp and 308 rwtq.

 

So as far as dynotesting goes it shows that there is a definate gain over stock using the Bullitt intake but it does REQUIRE a tune because the a/f is very lean without one. Also the gains from the intake aren't as much as a normal C&L intake with tune.

 

The max number gains are only 11rwhp and 20 rwtq but the gains in the midrange are well over 15rwhp and nearly 30 rwtq at different points on the graph using the Bullitt intake over the stock one.

 

The gains of the C&L Racer over the Bullitt are right around 8rwhp and 3 rwtq and the Hp gains are mostly above 4000rpm's and there is a gain of around 7 rwtq over 5000rpms using the C&L Racer too.

 

I've heard that Doug is looking into SGT tunes.

[LuLu]

This 6500 RPM's really had you going huh LuLu! :D

 

 

Well, yes. I wasn't doubting the change to the rev limiter, only what performance value it represents. That, coupled with what seems to be a larger ( and heavier) dampner just doesn't add up to added performance.

So, if I recall some other dyno runs, this is more hp and torque than an SGT, correct?

 

 

Corrrect. My personal dyno test on my SGT are in my sig, and while MM&FF posts higher numbers for the Bullitt, it's not by much. Things that effect dyno accuracy are tire pressure, ambient air temps, altitude and fuel quality. Since the numbers are so close, I suggest that the SGT has the same tune as the Bullitt, both were provided by Ford Racing, for a bone stock 3V.

 

What e.t. / mph did the Bullit manage in the MM/FF article?

 

Article says the best of the day was 13.29 @ 105.27. Other passes are reported to be 13.42 @104.91, 13.50 @ 104.17 and 13.52 @104.50. Sounds about what I would expect from my SGT, but I won't know until spring. Our lower stance, stiffer suspension and ground effects may add some MPH in the second 1/8th mile.

 

I'll add this observation. Only once in this article, does the author state that they were shifting at 6500 RPM. That's fine, but when? On what passes? All of them? This could account for the declining performance over four passes, or, it could account for the best pass of the day. It's not clearly stated, and I can't make assumptions. What ever the case, the overall performance is consistent, and that's always good.

 

After reading the whole article, I believe there is very little difference in 1/4 mile performance between the two cars, but we do have some suspension refinements in the SGT that the Bullitt does not get. The article also said that all the mods used on the Bullitt came from FRP, so, how much difference could there be in those mods?

 

In the pic of the engine bay, the CAI appears to have a stock 80mm MAF on the Bullitt with a serious bend in it, and we have a 90mm with a much better approach. If anyone gets an actual eyeball on this car, grab the EEC and engine codes? Please? This could tell us a lot.

[ilmor]

Just a few other thoughts on this:

 

The Bullitt has 3:73 gears vs. the SGT's 3:55, so this may tend to get the Bullitt down the 1/4 faster.

 

The Bullitt suspension is softer than the SGT's (as noted in all the tests I've read), which may benefit it's 1/4 mile times due to better weight transfer. I've read in a couple of articles that the SGT suspension is not conducive to the best drag times.

 

On the other hand, the SGT is probably going to have better road race lap times than a Bullitt due to its stiffer / lower suspension.

 

The only way to really know how the car's compare is to have them both on the same tracks, at the same time, under the same conditions.

[DreamRide]

Just a few other thoughts on this:

 

The Bullitt has 3:73 gears vs. the SGT's 3:55, so this may tend to get the Bullitt down the 1/4 faster.

 

The Bullitt suspension is softer than the SGT's (as noted in all the tests I've read), which may benefit it's 1/4 mile times due to better weight transfer. I've read in a couple of articles that the SGT suspension is not conducive to the best drag times.

 

On the other hand, the SGT is probably going to have better road race lap times than a Bullitt due to its stiffer / lower suspension.

 

The only way to really know how the car's compare is to have them both on the same tracks, at the same time, under the same conditions.

 

 

 

+1

 

 

Probably going to be some goof ball drivin it around town anyway so you will beat the pants off them no matter what......................

[69dejavue]

Yes the Bullitt may be as quick in the quarter mile, BUT, how many of us drag race the 1/4 mile on a daily basis. The 3.73 gears translate to higher rpms when cruising, less fuel mileage, more noise, and more wear. The 3.5s are just right compromise. You hear of people switching to 4.10s. Again, they are onl;y good for the quarter mile and the other 99.9% of the time are a negative.

[69dejavue]

LuLu, re the directive about not using police vehicles with less than a 1/2 tank, is that from Ford, a TSB? Or just a directive from your fleet manager?

 

Again, we have a suburban department and do not do the number of WOT on emergency runs that an urban city such as Chicago does but we still drive under emergency conditions when necessary. Our mechanic has changed the oil and filter ever 3K and we have not had an engine oil related failure in over a million miles. We have 15 vehicles and have never had a valve cover off an engine in over 8 years. We keep the vehicles an average of 6 years and 150,000 miles. some of the wear comes from emergency driving when necessary. I think you will agree that some wear comes from cops abusing the equipment because they can. There is not a cop proof car, gun, etc on the market today.

 

I concur with you re the WOT and the effect on the alternator, just when it is needed most. It has to supply all the electronics including the lights, sirens, and the computer, gun lock, lighting etc.

[fatboy_merged]

HERE's YOUR SIGN.....

 

[DreamRide]

HERE's YOUR SIGN.....

 

 

 

 

She go boom.........................

 

Who needs that kind of power in a street car anyway's? :P

[ilmor]

Yes the Bullitt may be as quick in the quarter mile, BUT, how many of us drag race the 1/4 mile on a daily basis. The 3.73 gears translate to higher rpms when cruising, less fuel mileage, more noise, and more wear. The 3.5s are just right compromise. You hear of people switching to 4.10s. Again, they are onl;y good for the quarter mile and the other 99.9% of the time are a negative.

 

 

I agree...my '97 M3 had a 4:10 rear; I hated the rpm's it turned even when just cruising at 65 - 70 mph; very annoyingly high.

[fatboy_merged]

hijacking thread....what the hell does "modular" engine mean?

:huh:

[hypersurf1]

There are only three problems with the Bullit. Its ugly, its ugly, oh and its ugly.

[MattInDetroit]

hijacking thread....what the hell does "modular" engine mean?

:huh:

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine

 

Ok...seriously...you guys are KILLING me!

 

Aren't we talking seconds? A VERY FEW seconds? In real life, with cars so close, won't it really come down to the drivers? <_<

[RogerS]

Jeff,

 

The 3:73's will make a difference along with the driver. Dosen't seem like much but there is a difference. Also the cold air box is a great piece. It traps more cold air than the Ford Racing part.

[MattInDetroit]

Jeff,

 

The 3:73's will make a difference along with the driver. Dosen't seem like much but there is a difference. Also the cold air box is a great piece. It traps more cold air than the Ford Racing part.

 

 

I guess... <_< I hear what you're saying I guess I just don't push it enough to notice the difference even if I were to switch. :unsure:

[DreamRide]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine

 

Ok...seriously...you guys are KILLING me!

 

Aren't we talking seconds? A VERY FEW seconds? In real life, with cars so close, won't it really come down to the drivers? <_<

 

 

Im going to whip the crap out of anyone one of them that comes my way....................... :D

 

 

Be afraid Bullit, Be very afraid................................ :P

[LuLu]

LuLu, re the directive about not using police vehicles with less than a 1/2 tank, is that from Ford, a TSB? Or just a directive from your fleet manager?

Don't really know it's source, but I know it is an internal CPD directive which applies only to PD vehicles today. Seems it stems from external Fleet Management "bean counters" complaining about having to pay some bills they didn't expect to have to pay. But, this "buck passing" did not land on the shoulders of the patrol officer after detailed investigation and back-tracking EEC data. I'm rather proud I had something to do with that.

Again, we have a suburban department and do not do the number of WOT on emergency runs that an urban city such as Chicago does but we still drive under emergency conditions when necessary. Our mechanic has changed the oil and filter ever 3K and we have not had an engine oil related failure in over a million miles. We have 15 vehicles and have never had a valve cover off an engine in over 8 years.

I'm pleased to hear this, really. I have always believed that our modular design is not only very flexible to modification, but also very durable. I still believe so today, however, much like your hand, wrist, arm, leg, knee, ankle, whatever, it can get twisted the wrong way and it takes just one twist to cause injury, and sometimes, permanent damage. As Clint Eastwood once said in one of his "Dirty Harry" films, "know your limitations."

 

I think we are in "orange vs. apple" discussion territory now, my friend. 15 cars vs. 5000 cars, long term mileage vs. short term hard driving abuse. There's quite a difference between a "high-miler" and a "beat car". That's really what we call them around here, "beat cars", because the car is assigned a specific territory to patrol, and this territory is called a "beat". The car belongs to the territory, but it has grown to another dimension too. Some officers think it means "beat the car".

I think you will agree that some wear comes from cops abusing the equipment because they can. There is not a cop proof car, gun, etc on the market today.

Absolutely. I agree 100 percent. "Drive it like you stole it" is the sentiment of most patrol officers here. Hell, I've seen them cut coffee cup holders out of the padded dash areas, and just because that spot was where they wanted their coffee cup to reside while they were in that car. Dumb azzed snit, eh?

 

It's getting better. FM is recycling patrol cars sooner. Today, it's 50K mileage and the car goes to auction, and most are bought up by the Taxi market because the shields and two point roll bar stay in the cars. A few are held back when body/frame damage isn't too bad, and the power train is salvaged for FM recycling for cars thet lost an engine, tranny, or rear end.

I concur with you re the WOT and the effect on the alternator, just when it is needed most. It has to supply all the electronics including the lights, sirens, and the computer, gun lock, lighting etc.

 

Thank you, sir. This is a factor to consider when building your SGT. Make sure your fuel system is getting all the electrical power it needs to keep up with added power and sensors are tickled pink. Cut off fuel too soon, and you learn two new words. "Boom" and "splash". I have a short list of things I do when I feel I want to head out to kick some azz on the street, but I'll save that for another post, this is already too long.

 

Y'all be safe.

[SWEDESHELBY1]

LuLu - I did not know I was talking/emailing a cop, are you a cop? Forgive me if I am wrong and if you are a cop keep posting as you have no need to be ashamed :P !

 

On the 6500 RPM's....

 

The 13.52 is cleanly respectible and the 13.29 is extremely good. I am assuming the article saying they shifted @ 6500 rpm each and every time thus the better times for the Bullitt than the SGT. Uhmmm, just wanted to note that "possible" fact LuLu. :D

PS: The Bullitt is a fugly car, just has good stuff in it and it is all from the factory. That says FORD is taking these cars serious and will NOT let CS get them in any way, SVT is cruel in my mind!

[SGT2666]

If homely is worth something then the Bullit is a sure collector...

[SWEDESHELBY1]

I just was saying that the Bullitt was a great "factory" addition performance wise, not in the looks department. That car is bland as h*ell and I would not personally own one. They do have body kits though if your interested in that angle of things.

The SGT is the much nicer car but could have been a taste less expensive, about 3-4 k worth ~

[LuLu]

LuLu - I did not know I was talking/emailing a cop, are you a cop? Forgive me if I am wrong and if you are a cop keep posting as you have no need to be ashamed :P !

 

Yeah, I'm a cop and not ashamed. Just tired. 30 years in CPD service, 18 years as a sergeant. Planning retirement now, maybe as soon as 15 Jan. 2008. But, I've been a gearhead since my first whiff of gasoline about the age of 12. You should have seen what I did with my dad's lawnmower engine and a 24" Hubbly bicycle. I thought he was going to kill me!

 

Today, I own two Legends circle track race cars, and for 2008, I'm converting one to 1/4 mile drag racing with the Suzuki Hayabusa engine with twin turbos and a shot of juice. Should be a wheel stander if I can get my ducks in line.

On the 6500 RPM's....

 

The 13.52 is cleanly respectible and the 13.29 is extremely good. I am assuming the article saying they shifted @ 6500 rpm each and every time thus the better times for the Bullitt than the SGT. Uhmmm, just wanted to note that "possible" fact LuLu. :D

 

Ya know, Swede, MM&FF just doesn't say it clearly. Could have been a one-time shift, could have been the whole shift plan/program. I can't tell from the MM&FF article. Never thought it was impossible, just don't see a real reason for winding up a small block that high in the cams. There's not much power up there over 6000 RPM, why take the risk? Torque peaks at 4300 RPM and HP peaks at 5100-6100 RPM, or, so they say. Somewhere in there, is your powerband, and once you go past that, you just get slower due to wind resistance.

The Bullitt is a fugly car, just has good stuff in it and it is all from the factory. That says FORD is taking these cars serious and will NOT let CS get them in any way, SVT is cruel in my mind!

 

Well, you have a point here, Swede. Shelby did the homework, and again Ford takes it back and builds yet another factory muscle car. Same thing they did with the GT 500. I think SVT is closed down now, and it's why Ford turned to Shelby, Roush and Saleen for their field research. Shelby got it done with the SGT, and wrote the mechanical blueprint for the Bullitt. I would not be surprised to see the Bullitt take a dirt nap after 2008 MY, and resurected as a GT 350 from Ford. But, we will always have our SGTs.

 

Boring? Perhaps. But, I rather appreciate (and respect) the austere, "sleeper" profile of the Bullitt. I watched Bullit again last night, and I'll prolly watch it again tonight while everyone else is out shooting guns in the air. I watched the original film when it came to theaters, and I have owned copies in several flavors, video tape, Laser disc, and now DVD. Can't watch it enough, it always gets me going.

 

Hey...Did y'all now this? The driver of the Charger in Bullitt came back in another popular chase movie.

 

Can anyone here identify that film, and the role he played?

 

Happy New Year, y'all be safe.

[ilmor]

I like the looks of the Bullit except for one thing...the grille. I don't like how so many of the grille "holes" are blanked off. It looks odd when light hits it, to me.

[SWEDESHELBY1]

Yeah, I'm a cop and not ashamed. Just tired. 30 years in CPD service, 18 years as a sergeant. Planning retirement now, maybe as soon as 15 Jan. 2008. But, I've been a gearhead since my first whiff of gasoline about the age of 12. You should have seen what I did with my dad's lawnmower engine and a 24" Hubbly bicycle. I thought he was going to kill me!

 

Today, I own two Legends circle track race cars, and for 2008, I'm converting one to 1/4 mile drag racing with the Suzuki Hayabusa engine with twin turbos and a shot of juice. Should be a wheel stander if I can get my ducks in line.

 

Ya know, Swede, MM&FF just doesn't say it clearly. Could have been a one-time shift, could have been the whole shift plan/program. I can't tell from the MM&FF article. Never thought it was impossible, just don't see a real reason for winding up a small block that high in the cams. There's not much power up there over 6000 RPM, why take the risk? Torque peaks at 4300 RPM and HP peaks at 5100-6100 RPM, or, so they say. Somewhere in there, is your powerband, and once you go past that, you just get slower due to wind resistance.

 

Well, you have a point here, Swede. Shelby did the homework, and again Ford takes it back and builds yet another factory muscle car. Same thing they did with the GT 500. I think SVT is closed down now, and it's why Ford turned to Shelby, Roush and Saleen for their field research. Shelby got it done with the SGT, and wrote the mechanical blueprint for the Bullitt. I would not be surprised to see the Bullitt take a dirt nap after 2008 MY, and resurected as a GT 350 from Ford. But, we will always have our SGTs.

 

Boring? Perhaps. But, I rather appreciate (and respect) the austere, "sleeper" profile of the Bullitt. I watched Bullit again last night, and I'll prolly watch it again tonight while everyone else is out shooting guns in the air. I watched the original film when it came to theaters, and I have owned copies in several flavors, video tape, Laser disc, and now DVD. Can't watch it enough, it always gets me going.

 

Hey...Did y'all now this? The driver of the Charger in Bullitt came back in another popular chase movie.

 

Can anyone here identify that film, and the role he played?

 

Happy New Year, y'all be safe.

 

 

Your a bird of a different feather! If all cops were like you we'd have a "totally" safe and unGODly Police force. But that is another subject for another time-

Ya the SGT is my fav and I truly wished I would have ordered the big gun from SAI, the SC. Since I didn't I still will drive, love and respect my car and if a Bullitt comes to my side they'll remember ol' swede when they say that old country boy knows how to drive that Shelby!

 

On ths 6500 RPMs....

 

That too has yet to be settled, time will tell.

 

 

Finally - The Bullitt movie is my all time favorite as well. It just gets my blood pumping when the Mustang throws it in reverses and the tires shake while burning rubber- that scene just makes me want to race and right now!

 

Have a Great New Year my friend, and remember when you pull a guy over that really is not meaning to speed, give'm a chuckle and say this ones on Swede! Ha!

[LuLu]

Have a Great New Year my friend, and remember when you pull a guy over that really is not meaning to speed, give'm a chuckle and say this ones on Swede! Ha!

 

I will.

 

I don't do traffic stops anymore, but I am in a position where I call the shots and I can sometimes give someone a break. He will be another cop, and when I do that, I'll tell them "this one is on Swede."

 

Take care my friend, and the next time you e-mail me, help me connect the dots between that e-mail and your screen name here? I get e-mails from everywhere, and often I don't know for sure who is who.

 

Be safe.