Oil change before Winter,.....

[SGT2666]

I'm not arguing oil but I think conventional oil vs synthetic has a lot larger gap than $20. Going to the local lube place has a $30 difference per change! ($34.95 for my Jeep using conventional vs. $69.95 for Mobil 1 in the Shelby if I used it - I still use Valvoline 5W-20.)

Maybe if you did it yourself the difference would be smaller. I prefer to supervise than to labor.... :D

 

 

Mobil one is one of the more expensive oils out there. I'm using Shell Rotella a relatively cheap synthetic.

 

Its been a number of years ago now but I think it was popular mechanics that did an oil study using New York taxi cabs. They put the equivalent of millions of miles on these cars and then pulled the motors down and micced everthing to see if one oil was better then the next or changing oil more frequently was worth while. I like this test for a number of reasons the best being that they had no vested interest in selling oil. Their conclusion was that most of us change oil to often and there was no gain in changing more frequently then every 6k miles. They also said that if you are buying a reputable brand of oil the differences are negligible.

 

Having said that I believe that synthetics may offer some advantages over crude but I'm using a cheap synthetic

[69dejavue]

I have a friend that is a mechanic for a government agency. He uses Ultra Lube in the police cars. Police cars probably have some of the hardest possible use. It is not all 100 MPH travel. Rather it is stop and start, 100 MPH, and sometimes hours of idling. The idling can be damaging to an engine.

 

Ulta Lube is a conventional oil that is refined without being cracked. Cracking is when they heat the oil to over 1900 degrees to refine and separate the oil The mechanic also builds big block racing engines on the side and swears by this oil. He has used the oil in the police vehicles for over 2 million miles without an engine oil related failure.

 

I still use Amsoil. From what I have read Amsoil pumps at a lower temperature so the oil is delivered to all the surfaces quicker. It has a higher flash point than conventional oil or Mobil One. Amsoil shows test where there is less wear than conventional oil or Mobil One. Synthetics reduce friction which reduces wear and increases mileage and longevity.

 

Now, the debate continues. Dino oil users will swear that their oil is adequate. Synthetic users want that extra bit of insurance if they are going to keep the car forever. The difference in cost is about 20-30.00 per year or about 2-2.50 per month (and you save gas, time, labor, etc).

 

No one will disagree that synthetics do a very good job of protecting your engine. some just debate if the added protection is worth the money. I am willing to pay 2.50 per month extra for peace of mind. It can't hurt!!!!!!! I used Mobil One for about 12 years and am a recent convert to Amsoil. And yes I am an oil fanatic. I used to only use Castrol Racing oil and would change the oil about every thousand miles in the old days. Now I use Amsoil. Times have changed. I think synthetic is better and will pay that 2.50 per month. Kind of hard to argue when it is only 2.50 (or less)per month isn't it.

 

Amsoil advertises it can go 25K miles. If that is true, and the average conventional oil is changed at 3 K then the conventional oil is changed 8 times for every one change of Amsoil. That means synthetic is actually far cheaper. If even you change Amsoil, with its superior protection, at half the rate, say 12 K; then you still change only one time to four times for conventional and it is as cheaper if not cheaper. And superior protection and increased mileage. What's the argument?????

 

If you study the history of synthetic oil it came into existence in WW II. Supercharged and turbo charged aircraft engines could not perform using conventional oils. They needed an oil that would offer increased protection and resistance to heat and breaking down (sludge, varnish, gum, gunk etc.). The conventional oils today are far better than 65 years ago but still do not pump at as low of temperature, do not have the resistance to wear that synthetics do, and are not as heat resistant and stable.

 

We are all fanatics on different issues. The bottom line is the only reason to buy conventional oil is because it is cheaper. If we used the same rationale when we bought cars we would be typing on the Yugo website rather than the Shelby web site!

[LuLu]

I know I went "-30-" on this topic, meaning "end of discussion". But, I am sucked back into it all due to the lack of common sense and reasoning I have read here today.

 

My Shelby GT was built by Shelby/SAI with nothing but bolt-on parts from Ford Racing. No engine modifications what-so-ever, other than adding a FRP cold air kit, 90mm MAF and custom EEC tune, none of which comes close to a custom engine build. It's a stock 4.6L-3V modular engine, period.

 

My Mustang GT engine was built by Ford Motor Company, one of hundreds-of-thousands in circulation.

 

I really don't care what Shelby/SAI add-on stickers "recommend", I go by what Ford engineers recommend, not only under the hood, but in their service manuals. Page 229 gents.

 

5W20 for the 4.6L-3V engine. Ford spec WSS-M2C930-A

 

Page 228 says 5W30 for the 4.0L V6 engine. Ford spec WSS-M2C929-A.

 

This SGT is my fourth "mod motor" automobile, and my sixth "mod motor" engine. I know what works, and what doesn't work on these engines.

 

Shelby/SAI may have added a sticker under the hood, but they didn't change this...

 

Why?

[69dejavue]

LuLu, you are obviously very knowledgeble but lets stick to facts. Thre thread was about synthetic oil v conventional oil.

 

Fact; synthetic is superior to conventional oil. The only questions are whether that extra protection is needed in our engines and if the extra 20-30 dollars per year is worth it.

 

You are correct we have a very standard engine with just a few bolt ons that do little to put stress on the engine. We, as drivers, probably are responsible for the majority of stress above the average 4.6 litre driver.

 

Synthetic oil, if you change it your self, probably costs about 20.00 more per year. 30.00 if you go to a dealer. It could actually be less if you only change it every 12-25 K rather than conventional oil at 3K or 5 K.

 

Bottom line is syntethic oil costs more. If it is needed it is in the eye of the beholder. those that choose to use synthetic feel they want that extra protection, real or imagined. Synthetic oil certainly is not a lesser oil. It is probably superior oil and for very little, if any, when looked at on an annual basis.

 

It will always be a personal choice.

 

As far as 20 v 30 weight that also is a matter of debate. 30 weight provides a thicker film of protection. 20 Weight flows quicker taking heat away from the source. 20 Weight offers less resistance than 30 weight when both are conventional oils. Hence one would expect less friction, less internal heat production, and better mileage, which is why Ford switched to 20 weight. However, syntethic 30 offers less friction than 20 weight conventional so you would still derive extra protection with even less friction, less wear, and improved gas mileage.

 

I am sure there will be few converts from conventional to synthetic and probably none from synthetic to conventional. We will have to agree that there will always be disagreement as to which weight and type of oil to use. But again, I don't think anyone will state that conventional oil offers better protection than synthetic, only that it is cheaper. And again, if all we were interested in is price then we would be on the Yugo website, not Shelby.

[69dejavue]

In post #16 LuLu addressed the issue of the FRPP oil filter and I concur with him. This filter is mostly for show to Shelby buyers. If you compare a standard Motorcraft filter to the racing filter probably the only real difference is weight. Racing filters are not required to function beyond 500 + miles but they are constructed heavier to contain burst pressure. Racing engines have a higher psi of oil to ensure lubrication. LuLu is correct! I switched from the FRPP oil filter to the Amsoil filter when I changed oil the first time at 950 miles.

[SGT2666]

I know I went "-30-" on this topic, meaning "end of discussion". But, I am sucked back into it all due to the lack of common sense and reasoning I have read here today.

 

My Shelby GT was built by Shelby/SAI with nothing but bolt-on parts from Ford Racing. No engine modifications what-so-ever, other than adding a FRP cold air kit, 90mm MAF and custom EEC tune, none of which comes close to a custom engine build. It's a stock 4.6L-3V modular engine, period.

 

My Mustang GT engine was built by Ford Motor Company, one of hundreds-of-thousands in circulation.

 

I really don't care what Shelby/SAI add-on stickers "recommend", I go by what Ford engineers recommend, not only under the hood, but in their service manuals. Page 229 gents.

 

5W20 for the 4.6L-3V engine. Ford spec WSS-M2C930-A

 

Page 228 says 5W30 for the 4.0L V6 engine. Ford spec WSS-M2C929-A.

 

This SGT is my fourth "mod motor" automobile, and my sixth "mod motor" engine. I know what works, and what doesn't work on these engines.

 

Shelby/SAI may have added a sticker under the hood, but they didn't change this...

 

Why?

 

 

Everything I've ever read says that messing with viscosity er using viscosity other then what the motor was designed to use is a bad idea.

[69dejavue]

I do not have my owners manual in front of me. I don't even have the car as it is in long term storage in AZ. So I will ask someone to check the manual for me. Most manuals give a recommended oil and then show other acceptable oils. Is that the case in the owner's manual? Does it show other weight oils that can be used? And after all the 30 weight is recommended by Shelby so they have assumed liability if we incur damage.

 

I would appreciate if someone would confirm that other weight oils can be used per the owner's manual for the 4.6 litre and let us know. Usually the manual will show the other weight oils and the recommended temperatures. Please apprise me. Thank you

[69dejavue]

Go to a different thread, Under Hood Decal, on this site, posted Sept. 23, 2007. Then go to Post #3 where Bud from SAI says to use 5W-20 for the initial break in then switch to 5 W- 30 due to the flash tune installed at SAI and the expected harder driving by Shelby owners. I don't think anyone will question that Bud has been a veritable fountain of good information for all of us.

 

5W-30 will offer a thicker film of protection than 5W-20. Slightly, marginallly, but still slightly better. 30 is less likely to thin out at higher temperatures than 20 (assuming conventional v conventional oils, or synthetic v synthetic oils) all things being equal.

[stump_breaker]

As far as 20 v 30 weight that also is a matter of debate. 30 weight provides a thicker film of protection. 20 Weight flows quicker taking heat away from the source. 20 Weight offers less resistance than 30 weight when both are conventional oils. Hence one would expect less friction, less internal heat production, and better mileage, which is why Ford switched to 20 weight. However, syntethic 30 offers less friction than 20 weight conventional so you would still derive extra protection with even less friction, less wear, and improved gas mileage.

 

 

 

Hey 07, not trying to break your balls or anything but you do know the "W" stands for winter and not weight?

 

A 5w20 simply means when cold the oil flows like a viscosity of 5 but after warming up it gets no thinner than a 20.

[69dejavue]

Hey 07, not trying to break your balls or anything but you do know the "W" stands for winter and not weight?

 

A 5w20 simply means when cold the oil flows like a viscosity of 5 but after warming up it gets no thinner than a 20.

 

 

Yes I am aware that the W in 5W, or 10W, or 0W is for Winter. The numbers 0, 5, 10, 20, 40, 50 etc are commonly referred to as weights of oil. But thank you for bringing that issue up for those that may not know. So yes the W in 5W-30 represents the Winter and the viscosity of the oil on a cold morning. It refers to the pumpability or as measured by SAE, the flow point of an oil. Amsoil 0W-30 will pump, or flow, at -68 degrees. Yes this is overkill but it shows how fast the oil can be pumped to the engine parts. And the majority of engine wear occurs in those first 5 seconds after you turn the key and the oil is in the crank case.

 

Stump- No offense taken as I assume you were merely inquiring to ensure I knew that of which I spoke. There are too many that make up stats, theories, etc so it never hurts to bring someone back to earth and make sure of the basics. Again, no offense taken. And I do not intend to offend anyone else on this thread.

 

Again, we are never going to all agree on conventional or synthetic oil. But I think most would agree that the ONLY reason to use conventional oil is that it is cheaper. No other advantages. For about 20-30 dollars more per year you can have added protection and to me, personally, that is worth it.

 

Thanks again.

 

07SGT

[stump_breaker]

Stump- No offense taken as I assume you were merely inquiring to ensure I knew that of which I spoke. There are too many that make up stats, theories, etc so it never hurts to bring someone back to earth and make sure of the basics. Again, no offense taken. And I do not intend to offend anyone else on this thread.

 

I wans't trying to be offensive so I'm glad you didn't tkae it that way.

A know a lot of people are not aware of what XwXX means and when you said "weight", just thought I'd chime in.

 

Continue guys. In the meantime I have to go get my oil changed........

[SGT2666]

I do not have my owners manual in front of me. I don't even have the car as it is in long term storage in AZ. So I will ask someone to check the manual for me. Most manuals give a recommended oil and then show other acceptable oils. Is that the case in the owner's manual? Does it show other weight oils that can be used? And after all the 30 weight is recommended by Shelby so they have assumed liability if we incur damage.

 

I would appreciate if someone would confirm that other weight oils can be used per the owner's manual for the 4.6 litre and let us know. Usually the manual will show the other weight oils and the recommended temperatures. Please apprise me. Thank you

 

 

I'll look the up 07 it certainly should not be an issue if called out as an option. What I was refering to above is about manufacturers calling out viscosity based on clearances in the motor and going to a higher viscosity can actually cause shearing in the oil breaking it down prematurely if I understand it correctly. Are you and Amsoil dealer ?

[69dejavue]

No I am not an Amsoil dealer. But I did become interested in the oil and made inquiries. I made a contact at Amsoil and pressed him hard for information. He was always very forthcoming and knowledgeble. He was honest and based his replies on facts. That impressed me. He never tried to snow me or do a sales job on me.

 

After reviewing all the information, and comparisons to even Mobil One I switched. I am in the process of switching our work vehicles to Amsoil to reduce wear and save money. That will be a total of about 30 vehicles plus lawn mowers, riding mowers, etc. This will include heavy trucks, pickup trucks, SUVs, and vehicles under heavy usage.

 

I would not try to push a product on this site without giving a full disclosure of my involvement. If anyone is interested in the email address of the person I met from Amsoil I will supply. He was an engineer for Ford for over 15 years and is familiar with what the Roush engines run in NASCAR. That sealed it for me.

 

I had used Mobil One for about 12+ years and had no complaints. But I am always willing to look at new technology if it is an improvement.

 

I am not an easy convert to anything. It must be proven to me or I will stay with what I know and is safe. Once proven to me, beyond a doubt, I made the change.

 

I am not the absolute authority on oil or any other subject. But then again, no one is.

 

Good Luck!

 

07 SGT

[69dejavue]

Several posts back LuLu recommended an oil cooler, especially if supercharging the engine. This is an excellent idea. Oil not only lubricates and protects but it also serves to cool the engine. Oil absorbs heat and moves away from the source of heat but unfortunately it only goes back to the crank case. An oil cooler not only keeps the oil from breaking down due to heat but also serves to lower the temperatue of the engine by cooling the oil. The oil cooler will also usually add about an extra quart of oil to the engine so that increases proportionately to the capacity, the circulation, and preservation of the oil.

 

I installed an oil cooler myself years ago on a small block Ford station wagon when towing a trailer. Simple installation and easy to remove.

 

The secret is to remember to change the oil in the oil cooler lines whenever changing the oil otherwise you are leaving about a quart of dirty oil in the engine.

 

Good idea LuLu !

[fatboy_merged]

i use synth in my Harley twin cam 88. simply because i dont ride it that often and sits through most of winter. conventional oil will still break down easier over time even when not using ur vehicle.

use it in my boat's outboard motor too.

oh...just a lil off topic....and if any of u have a boat and u live where it freezes durring the winter, drain your lower unit (which uses a special lube for lower units)before winter gets here and cover it with trash bag or whatever u can to keep rain or dew out, so the water wont get in it and freeze and bust something inside. but ya'll already know that. <_< :P

just thought i even remind myself too :rolleyes:

 

edit,

a little footnote: i think either will be fine as long as u religiously change it between 3000-5000 miles. i ran conventional in my tundra for 7 years, no probs. synth in my harley since my first oil change, no probs. just depends how much or how little or how hard u use ur vehicle. u know what to go with. as far as my Shelby i just do what Ford recomends and if it goes to poop while under warranty then ford pays for it...dont they? i hope? :ph34r:

[DLGT-H398]

hey WADO.

your using rottela in your GT!!!!

do you realise that oil has lots of zinc and phospherous in it?

I have used that oil in harleys for years and the reason I point this out is diesel oil will ruin catalytic converters in newer cars over long term use.and those who think synthetic is so superior to modern dyno oils need to research some oil analysis forums.wear numbers are just as low using a good dino oil with the right intervals.there is some good synthetic oils on the market but if your not extending your oil changes out you are wasting your money on them.the best oil I had ever used in my harleys was havoline 20-50 untill they changed the formula from a SL to SM to meet the requirments of newer emissions standards.

[Hot Pony]

As long as you stay with the same weight you can use any brand you choose. Personally I would use either Mobil 1 or Amsoil. I have used both and have had excellent results. My 94 Cobra has been on Mobil 1 since 1997 and the Shelby was put on Amsoil at the first change.

 

Which Amsoil did you use?

Joe

[69dejavue]

I use the Amsoil 0W-30 and the Amsoil filter.

 

I use the Amsoil 0W-30 and the Amsoil filter.

 

 

all oil companies have different level of quality oils and Amsoil is no different. According to Amsoil the 0W-30 is their highest level oil. Even Mobil One has at least three different synthetics; standard, extended drain, and high mileage.

 

Good Luck with whatever you choose.

[Hot Pony]

I use the Amsoil 0W-30 and the Amsoil filter.

all oil companies have different level of quality oils and Amsoil is no different. According to Amsoil the 0W-30 is their highest level oil. Even Mobil One has at least three different synthetics; standard, extended drain, and high mileage.

 

Good Luck with whatever you choose.

 

Thanks for the info. I live in Florida where the temp is usually a little warmer than most of the country. Would 5w-30 be better for me?

[SGT2666]

hey WADO.

your using rottela in your GT!!!!

do you realise that oil has lots of zinc and phospherous in it?

I have used that oil in harleys for years and the reason I point this out is diesel oil will ruin catalytic converters in newer cars over long term use.and those who think synthetic is so superior to modern dyno oils need to research some oil analysis forums.wear numbers are just as low using a good dino oil with the right intervals.there is some good synthetic oils on the market but if your not extending your oil changes out you are wasting your money on them.the best oil I had ever used in my harleys was havoline 20-50 untill they changed the formula from a SL to SM to meet the requirments of newer emissions standards.

 

 

So you are saying the Rottela will ruin cats? I know this oil was originally produced for the trucking industry.

[DLGT-H398]

hard to say if it ruins cats in very specific exhaust system but this is what the auto industry is claiming.the service rating for new car engines is SM.the service rating for deisel oil is SJ-CJ7.rotella is realy good oil but it may degrade your emissions equipment prematurley.alot of the goldwing riders are using the 5-40 synthetic rotella but they are having this same debate because the gl1800 goldwing is equiped with catalytic converters and o2 scensers.

[SGT2666]

hard to say if it ruins cats in very specific exhaust system but this is what the auto industry is claiming.the service rating for new car engines is SM.the service rating for deisel oil is SJ-CJ7.rotella is realy good oil but it may degrade your emissions equipment prematurley.alot of the goldwing riders are using the 5-40 synthetic rotella but they are having this same debate because the gl1800 goldwing is equiped with catalytic converters and o2 scensers.

 

 

Thats funny I came across it on a bike site ZX-14 guys were using it. Shell said it was good for bike use.

[mywickedshelby]

Well, skipped my service appointment due to snow flurries this morning. Let the debate/discussion continue! :blink:

 

I am going with the synthetic. I figure the Winter messing with changing intervals and limited use of the car makes this a better choice. Doesnt conventional brake down after 3 months, it might be longer than that before I get to drive my car again.

[mywickedshelby]

How many quarts for an SGT oil change?