S197 Boss Mustang On The Way

[68fastback]

Holy oil-pan baffles! That motor is drop-dead awsome!

 

I think (not sure though) that it is in fact the retail version of the man-racer motor that Dan Davis is trying to get support to produce and sell through FRPP.

 

And carbon-fiber valve-covers too!!!! Still, I don't know whether to just drool or have a full-on orgasm! ANy reasonable variation of that in a Boss 302 would qualify for sure!

 

I'll get pix tomorrow!

 

Ok, now, I wanna hear a "hallelulia" out there, and all your sins of doubt will be forgiven <lol>

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

Holy oil-pan baffles! That motor is drop-dead awsome!

 

I think (not sure though) that it is in fact the retail version of the man-racer motor that Dan Davis is trying to get support to produce and sell through FRPP.

 

And carbon-fiber valve-covers too!!!! Still, I don't know whether to just drool or have a full-on orgasm! ANy reasonable variation of that in a Boss 302 would qualify for sure!

 

I'll get pix tomorrow!

 

Ok, now, I wanna hear a "hallelulia" out there, and all your sins of doubt will be forgiven <lol>

 

.

 

 

Hallelulia!!! And pass the racing helment...

 

Dan, hope you are having a blast at SEMA, I'm jealous!! All that HP must be intoxicating...

[JETSOLVER]

Here's the big "IF" that's been on my mind for the past month...

 

It would be great if Ford builds a killer N/A Boss engine...

IF Ford is still around 3 years from now. Ford simple can't continue to hemmorage $1.7b a month for much longer.

 

 

Most of that is one time only restructuring costs and much of it is a tax hold thing. Still, your right. They have to keep the revenue coming in at a steady, reduced number.

 

This has been bugging me for a while and just today I manged to flesh out the thought. Why is it cheaper for Ford to reinvent an old name plate in the Boss, when the bulk of the target market they claim to want to recover the lost market share from is mid 20's to late 30 year old people? Those average family Americans have never heard of a Boss Ford let alone have any idea what the driving experiance might be.

 

They had all the press coverage and street cred, they had premium owners who were devoted to dealers who were happy to sell that premium product,and as repayment for the added customer service requirements, they had a protected area, and were in the top 5% of all customer satisfaction ratings.

 

Anyone see where I'm going with this? They have really F d up with this program and now I'm past mourning and getting perturbed.

 

And Dan, we REALLY need shots from under the rear of Road and Track car on the show stand. And I think we would all be very curious to know what Ford decided to put under that Man Racer car for rear suspension. Please? Have a good one, and be safe.

[C0braFan]

What the heck is THIS? "Starting spring 2007, the BOSS 302 will be the basis for all new Ford Racing engines. " ?!?!

 

Oh man... I thought for a minute there it was a MOD engine. ;( So Ford is renaming all of its crate engines with the Boss 302 namesake. (Thanks, Ford, for more badging tricks...).

 

That video gave me goose bumps. Esp the part where the Boss blows by that Porche and gets right up on a GT40.

 

 

If someone had inside knowledge on how much the MOD engines cost Ford to build, it might help with making predictions about a future Boss engine. What are the production costs of the 281-3V, 331-4V, and so on? You can probably look at the crate engine prices and guesstimate on the markup (i.e. the replacement cost of a GT500 engine w/SC). Take that base GT500 engine cost as an upper limit, and then build a Boss engine out of the iron 5.4 and see what you can come up with under that price range with FR500C intake, heads, cams, etc.

 

FPV adapted the 2000 Cobra R engine for it's Boss 290 GT-P. SVT adapted it for the GT500. Clearly, this is the production engine one would expect Ford to base a new MOD-based Boss engine on here in the US. It's just not realistic to expect an aluminum 5.4 when that has been positioned as the ultra-high end Ford GT engine.

 

Here's a realistic Boss engine:

• 2000 Cobra R/GT-P/GT500 iron block
  
• Ford GT/FR500C ported heads
  
• Upgraded cams
  
• FRPP Drag Pack
  

 

[MustangFanatic]

The crate engines are being badged as Boss 302 engines by FRPP. Since DC has introduced the 392 Hemi as well there seems to be a concerted effort by Ford and DC to match GM's successful crate engine program.

 

As far as the next generation Boss Mustang being slotted to debut in MY '09, it doesn't appear at first blush that it will be powered by any iteration of the current mod motor (either 4.6L or 5.4L) Currently, it appears that the new Boss engine series (aka Hurricane) will appear in the Mustang in '09 in the Boss. Ford will debut the new engine first in the F-series pickups in MY '08. The ultimate Boss engine for me in '09 would be:

 

• 5.0L 4V Naturally Aspirated
  
• All-Alloy Block and Heads
  
• 400+ HP
  
• Redline: 7,500
  

 

[68fastback]

I like what you like, Fanatic!!!

 

Sorry I haven't been in the last couple of days.

 

Spent all yesterday at SEMA and though I have no way to sort or post photos until I get home, just wanted to give you my take on what I saw at Ford:

 

"The Boss is Back!" Well, that's what all the cute gals in the short red skirts keep saying at Ford-SEMA, but what is actually back?

 

First of all, let me say that while all the girls are well trained, none of them know what an engine is -- they're just recordings in skirts. That's too bad. It's also obvious that Ford set up for SEMA this time differently than in the past -- besides all the cars (I'll get to that) there were no crate-engine displays (except the new BOSS (crates) and no knowledgeable people to ask questions of! Dan Davis was reportedly "in the house" but was not around -- I really wanted to get is take on a few choice questions. FRP had a well staffed and knowledgeable booth within the Ford area, but they could only address FRP questions (btw, there are FRP packs 1, 2, 3 [/i]and Whipple now! -- for mustang-GT ...+/- 415HP, warranty-cert is underway [like Roush] and they are considering a twin-screw kit for the GT500 as well -- no commitment yet).

 

Shelby also had a table but the gal I talked too didn't know who Amy Boylan was -- this was her "first day" on the job! I eventually found 'real' Shelby personnel and they were very knowledgeable -- Special 40th Anniversay GT500 program was announced (don't get too excited yet) more on this later too.

 

Ok, Back to "The Boss is Back." Well, the good news is the BOSS engine program. It is not just a label for all Ford crate motors (thank God!) just to a the new series of genuinely sweet well-prepped crates based on the veneralbe thin-wall pushrod 302/351 series motors. Actually, no one could tell me for sure whether they are hi-deck 351-based or short-deck 302-based designs, but it appears to me from the displacements (302-363 CID) that it could be a new 302-based series (most of Fords recent crates have been hi-deck 351 based). But that's just my guess. In any event these motors are a welcomed addition and are clearly serious assemplies aimed both at the weekend racer, a base for more serious race-motors,the and hi-po restoration communities.

 

But what about the BOSS 302 - the car!? Well, it would seem that Ford newest secret lover is Galpin Auto Sports who prepped several car and truck creations in the Ford 'tent' including "The 2007 Boss 302" which is a beautifully-prepped S197 sporting one of the new BOSS 302 crates. However no one I could find could address whether this is available as a Ford offering; and forget the bigger the question: where's the stealth 2009 NA-DOHC 5.0 Boss 302 -- the car!? It was like at 2004 SEMA when I asked if that Mustang with the Cobra badges was the GT500 prorptype -- blank stares!!! So, believe it or not, I could not find any actual Ford employee at SEMA who could answer such a question -- FRP guys appreciated the question, but had no insight (rightfully so, since it's not FRP's turf).

 

There were a couple of FR500s shown and the red-skirted words made it seem like you could just go to your Ford dealer and order one (they didn't say that, of course). (Sorry, Rob, I didn't see your note on getting a shot under the manracer rearend, but they were on a raised platofrm where mortals were not to tread. Also, I searched hi and lo for the Vanquished stang, both at Ford, in the outside Ford corral, everywhere... -- nada! I even went and got a SEMA employee to do a search for me -- nada. I so wanted to see it, but could not find it anywhere.) Btw, no hoods were open (and they would not open them) for cars on the platform.

 

40th anniversary GT500. I know some of our brethren were interest in all the rumors of appearance and performance packages for the GT500. No one cold confirm any performance packages, except the possibility of GT500 twin-screw FRP-pack that might be coming. However the rumor of an appearance pkg is now a fact. Shelby Autos will be converting customer-owned GT500s into 40th edition GT500s. While this is not a performance package, it is a tasteful and fairly extensive trim package including such goodies as carbon-fiber splitter and side-view covers, stainless hood vents, 3 dash-top-integrated guages, 'true' S-H-E-L-B-Y lettering for the rear, anniversary badging, etc. ANYONE INTERESTED SHOULD CALL THE MAIN NUMBER AT SHELBY AUTOS (Vegas) AND PUT YOUR NAME ON THE LIST RIGHT NOW!!! There will only be a limited number of conversions done by SA and that's it! The literature doesn't mention any list or availability -- I got that from a Shelby employee (real one) who said those interested should call to to get on the list right away -- don't wait. They'll contact those on the list when timing is known -- first come, first served. My guess (just my guess) is that this won't happen until after the Shelby GT conversion work has peaked -- dunno.

 

Btw, here's a link to a list of all the cars in the Ford 'tent' at SEMA (including Ford, Ford Trucks and Volvo).

 

Have to run now... I'll check in later. Pix: middle of next week -- unfortunately, nothing really exciting, tho the Galpin Auto Sports Boss 302 is really nicely done. Great attention to detail right down to heat-wrap on the battery -- a credible Boss 302. Now where's my DOHC 5.0 Boss !! <lol>

 

[JETSOLVER]

Thanks for trying Dan, I hope that my request didn't take up to much of your limited time to see as much as you could. I see that the show gets bigger every year(heck even Hyundia has a large footprint there now ) Your primary mission was to see if there were things that a real car guy could glean and I think you did.

 

So no conclusions, just trends.

 

I want to throw this out and see what people think. Is the fact that Ford seems to be so eager to create so many themed Mustangs a good or a bad thing?

 

I wonder if this is causing Ford to dilute the FORD brand. The fact that the Mustang has for so many years been the ultimate( and really the only continious market car around except for the Vette) blank canvas is a given. And while I applaud what appears to be a continuation of the valuable "technology transfer iniative" started a few years ago, I cannot help but feel that Fords core Mustang brand is somewhat lost in all this.

 

Does the profusion of marketing tie-ups and designer cars help Ford sell more Mustangs?? Or as it seems to me, do most of these just lead to idea's for existing Mustang owners to copy, purchase as parts or worse yet, turn someone off(if the only thing that catches the eye is unpleasant to the beholder).I just counted up in my head the number of derivitive Stangs available through select Ford dealers and came up with an easy half dozen and missed some no doubt. Will this devalue the Ford Mustang brand through the next lean years when everyone is enjoying their recent Stang and all the mods they have done to personalize it?(and count the bills when they come in, not to mention the payment book)

 

Should Ford consider leaving the aftermarket to the aftermarket and just focus on one clear signal. Mustang. Perhaps just build the four basic units that they have in the past(a base sporty V6, a basic, pure pony GT, a special heritage model, and an in house top of the line SVT) I still hate to think of the branding they have misplaced with SVT as so many thought that the value inherant in the COBRA was its greatest atribute(ie. the OEM version of an aftermarket "what if" proposition)

 

And further to this, how important to Ford as a whole is making the FRPP concept work? They have offered what appeared to be kick arse parts in the past, but suffered terribly because they were wrongly placed, hard to find and insanely priced. On this I have personal experiance. I wanted very much to add the FRPP 4v heads,cams and intake to my toy, but never once saw a car with them, found my dealer would only order them sight unseen, didn't see them in ANY Mustang magazine(hoping for real world performance data) and they were given all of 50 words on the FRPP website. Oh yea,and they were priced at about $10 000 all up. That is a very large and expensive leap of faith. And it went with the FRPP P-I heads for the 2 valve, the Bullitt intake, and the harder core suspension parts(although they did pretty good with spring sets), and several other hard parts. My dealer tried to make the concept work(they have almost 20% of the floor area devoted to display and had several complete engines, drag radials, bling and the first thing you saw was several complete dry and wet nitrous kits, not a small effort!), but did better business by installing other MFGR> parts in service. Again I wonder, bad idea, or just misapplied marketing/retailing?

[MustangFanatic]

Thanks for trying Dan, I hope that my request didn't take up to much of your limited time to see as much as you could. I see that the show gets bigger every year(heck even Hyundia has a large footprint there now ) Your primary mission was to see if there were things that a real car guy could glean and I think you did.

 

So no conclusions, just trends.

 

I want to throw this out and see what people think. Is the fact that Ford seems to be so eager to create so many themed Mustangs a good or a bad thing?

 

I wonder if this is causing Ford to dilute the FORD brand. The fact that the Mustang has for so many years been the ultimate( and really the only continious market car around except for the Vette) blank canvas is a given. And while I applaud what appears to be a continuation of the valuable "technology transfer iniative" started a few years ago, I cannot help but feel that Fords core Mustang brand is somewhat lost in all this.

 

Does the profusion of marketing tie-ups and designer cars help Ford sell more Mustangs?? Or as it seems to me, do most of these just lead to idea's for existing Mustang owners to copy, purchase as parts or worse yet, turn someone off(if the only thing that catches the eye is unpleasant to the beholder).I just counted up in my head the number of derivitive Stangs available through select Ford dealers and came up with an easy half dozen and missed some no doubt. Will this devalue the Ford Mustang brand through the next lean years when everyone is enjoying their recent Stang and all the mods they have done to personalize it?(and count the bills when they come in, not to mention the payment book)

 

Should Ford consider leaving the aftermarket to the aftermarket and just focus on one clear signal. Mustang. Perhaps just build the four basic units that they have in the past(a base sporty V6, a basic, pure pony GT, a special heritage model, and an in house top of the line SVT) I still hate to think of the branding they have misplaced with SVT as so many thought that the value inherant in the COBRA was its greatest atribute(ie. the OEM version of an aftermarket "what if" proposition)

 

And further to this, how important to Ford as a whole is making the FRPP concept work? They have offered what appeared to be kick arse parts in the past, but suffered terribly because they were wrongly placed, hard to find and insanely priced. On this I have personal experiance. I wanted very much to add the FRPP 4v heads,cams and intake to my toy, but never once saw a car with them, found my dealer would only order them sight unseen, didn't see them in ANY Mustang magazine(hoping for real world performance data) and they were given all of 50 words on the FRPP website. Oh yea,and they were priced at about $10 000 all up. That is a very large and expensive leap of faith. And it went with the FRPP P-I heads for the 2 valve, the Bullitt intake, and the harder core suspension parts(although they did pretty good with spring sets), and several other hard parts. My dealer tried to make the concept work(they have almost 20% of the floor area devoted to display and had several complete engines, drag radials, bling and the first thing you saw was several complete dry and wet nitrous kits, not a small effort!), but did better business by installing other MFGR> parts in service. Again I wonder, bad idea, or just misapplied marketing/retailing?

 

 

To echo Jetsolver, a big THANKS to Dan for all his efforts and excellent write-up. I also am left wondering, where is the prototype of the '09 Boss 302? The only thing I can hope for is that it will be revealed in the coming months at possibly the NYC or Detroit autoshows. Ford, don't disappoint me again...

 

Jetsolver, excellent thoughts and write-up as well. I had been struggling to get my head around the same issue and you pulled it together much better than I could have. Just my personal opinion but I do believe all of this cooperation between the manufacturer and the aftermarket has muddied the waters, diluted the Mustang heritage and created a myraid of opinions that only confuse or alienate buyers. The strength of the Mustang has always been a strong base platform (as you stated blank canvas) for customers to tailor to their own personal needs all available from Ford at an affordable price. The recent technology partnerships have sufficiently blurred the lines between the aftermarket and the factory to the point that one cannot tell where the lines are at all. The Mustang line-up that I believe Ford should offer is very similar to your approach with a sporty V6 base car, a basic GT, TWO hi-po models - one focused on the drag strip segment and the other at the road racing contingent, and a top-shelf SVT model.

 

The other issue that could potentially develop from the extensive cooperation is that those aftermarket companies not involved in the technology transfer will be driven away from Ford and the Mustang leaving the Mustang aftermarket to be dominated by only a few players. Competition among aftermarket companies improves the variety and quality of modifications available for our Mustangs, eliminating that is never a good idea. As a secondary thought, it also occurred to me that by offering so many turn-key options, the number of customers willing to modify there cars personally is diminished. Consider this, someone can "justify" modifying a $20K Mustang to suit their personal tastes but would they be equally as willing to do the same to a $60K Saleen? Probably not, which further reduces the market for aftermarket suppliers and reduces the creativity of the individual owner. One could of course argue that the Saleen buyer has already personalized their car by selecting the Saleen. However, I enjoy personalizing my Mustang to suit me almost as much as I enjoy driving the out of it.

 

To summarize, I do agree with your conclusions and think at some point Ford may regret taking this path.

[68fastback]

To echo Jetsolver, a big THANKS to Dan for all his efforts and excellent write-up. I also am left wondering, where is the prototype of the '09 Boss 302? The only thing I can hope for is that it will be revealed in the coming months at possibly the NYC or Detroit autoshows. Ford, don't disappoint me again...

 

Jetsolver, excellent thoughts and write-up as well. I had been struggling to get my head around the same issue and you pulled it together much better than I could have. Just my personal opinion but I do believe all of this cooperation between the manufacturer and the aftermarket has muddied the waters, diluted the Mustang heritage and created a myraid of opinions that only confuse or alienate buyers. The strength of the Mustang has always been a strong base platform (as you stated blank canvas) for customers to tailor to their own personal needs all available from Ford at an affordable price. The recent technology partnerships have sufficiently blurred the lines between the aftermarket and the factory to the point that one cannot tell where the lines are at all. The Mustang line-up that I believe Ford should offer is very similar to your approach with a sporty V6 base car, a basic GT, TWO hi-po models - one focused on the drag strip segment and the other at the road racing contingent, and a top-shelf SVT model.

 

The other issue that could potentially develop from the extensive cooperation is that those aftermarket companies not involved in the technology transfer will be driven away from Ford and the Mustang leaving the Mustang aftermarket to be dominated by only a few players. Competition among aftermarket companies improves the variety and quality of modifications available for our Mustangs, eliminating that is never a good idea. As a secondary thought, it also occurred to me that by offering so many turn-key options, the number of customers willing to modify there cars personally is diminished. Consider this, someone can "justify" modifying a $20K Mustang to suit their personal tastes but would they be equally as willing to do the same to a $60K Saleen? Probably not, which further reduces the market for aftermarket suppliers and reduces the creativity of the individual owner. One could of course argue that the Saleen buyer has already personalized their car by selecting the Saleen. However, I enjoy personalizing my Mustang to suit me almost as much as I enjoy driving the out of it.

 

To summarize, I do agree with your conclusions and think at some point Ford may regret taking this path.

 

 

Great thoughts Jet and Fanatic.

 

Just one twist I'd like to add -- that Ford may have staged these realtionships quite intentionally. By that I mean that as Ford was getting ready to for the '05 graound-up redesign and while FRP was still 'asleep' the aftermarket partnering might have been the only way to get quality players on board with packages that needed to stretch beyond the FRPP parts bin. Now, as the S197 is well established, has tremendous and broad aftermarket support, and competition is on the horizon, I think Ford knows that many of their early partners will also be drawn in to spawn customized series for them too. And now that FRPP crate motor and parts programs are getting real traction with the enthusiast community and the "packs" are starting to make it easier for the individual owners to plan customizing their own rides, we may see Ford now intentionally pull back specialty series mustangs in-house (including Shelby as in-house) so to speak and we may very well see a return to a sporty V6, mainline performance GT and two specialty lines: one for the twisties and one for the go-fast straight-line crowd. At least that would be my strategy.

 

By the time the refresh is out ('09?) I would think the above cycle would be rather complete and Ford would then start the cycle over again in prep for the '12 ground-up, where, once again, FRPP parts will lag the market and others (beyond the Ford unbrella) will be needed to assure a well-acepted launch with much to show right out of the starting gates -- once again.

 

If you look back to the '60s, Shelby was sort of the aftermarket for Ford and, even then, once the mustang was well established, the first thing Ford did was pull the premium variants in house and out from under our ol' CS. Of course, that was then and this is now, and Ford would never do that in the same way today. But I would not be surprised if Ford has already pow-wow'd with Roush/Saleen/Steeda on how what the broad opportunities to work together might be as this cycle progresses. What would be considered colusion 20 years ago is good, transparent, partner management today and,admittedly, Ford has been doing a good job of that.

 

Do such cycles dilute the marque? Dunno -- but there is a tradeoff, maybe, betw assuring success (early in the cycle) and potential brand dilution as the cycle matures and the principal (Ford) partner starts necessarily pulling the wagons into a tighter circle to lever revenue as they prep for the next cycle ....a fine line to walk while balancing both brand management and partner relations/programs, I think.

 

I don't mean to imply I know this to be the case nor that it's a cut-and-dried arrangement. I tink this a very organic process that's also affected by competitive strategy and even how big a shadow Ford wants to cast in prep for new/various racing programs (e.g. GrndAm, TransAm, NHRA, NASCAR, etc)

and all the posturing and positioning such ventures undoubtedly entail (yeah, you can cross off NHRA for now ;-) -- just some wishfull thinking here <lol>)

 

Shure would be nice to be a fly on the wall at an HTT/DanDavis/partner-relations strategic planning meetings

 

GM has been leading the way in aftermarket performance products for some time and you can see how well-oiled the GM guys are at events like NHRA where their displays are creative rotisserie parts displays for heads, cranks, manifolds, etc. and they fire up a live 572 crate motor through a set of unmuffled 6-foot 18-wheeler stacks to amplify the s--t out of the sound and project it like megaphones to attract a crowd. The FRP trailer, by contrast, is less engaging, less 'jumping', no live engine, etc. But, Ford has made great strides with the new FRP and I was impressed with the genuineness of the FRP guys at both SEMA and NHRA whereas the GM guys were more aloof in 'rote' mode. I think Ford is on the right track with FRPP -- it would be nice if they didn't have to treat them at such arms-length. By that I mean that I got the distinct impression that FRPP does not get early/privileged info from Ford (may be legal reasons? dunno) and so are always chasing Ford like any other aftermarket parts vendor -- at least that's my impression. If there's no business reason for that it would seem silly, so I'm assuing there are reasons I'm just not aware of.

 

Ooops, guess I added more than "one twist"

 

.

[C0braFan]

As far as the next generation Boss Mustang being slotted to debut in MY '09, it doesn't appear at first blush that it will be powered by any iteration of the current mod motor (either 4.6L or 5.4L) Currently, it appears that the new Boss engine series (aka Hurricane) will appear in the Mustang in '09 in the Boss. Ford will debut the new engine first in the F-series pickups in MY '08. The ultimate Boss engine for me in '09 would be:

 

 

 

Where are you getting this information? Because without a reliable source, one tends to sound like a UFO researcher. Who at Ford claims there is a Boss Mustang coming in MY 09? Who said it would not be equipped with the 4.6 or 5.4? I think you're transferring wishful thinking into an authoritative position. Yes, Ford announced that the Hurricane line will be renamed to Boss. With the new Boss Crates, who knows if that will even happen now (does Ford want two lines of engine sharing the same name?). I hold to my original position....stating emphatically that the Boss Mustang is coming in MY 09 is irresponsible. Yes, very wishful thinking (and I eagerly share it!) but stating it as a fact demands a source (other than the water cooler at Romero). I'm not trying to insult you...I just think it's important to delineate fact from fiction and destroy all rumors.

[Grabber]

When I see the word "appears" in ones post like this, you gotta figure it is speculation. Thats how I read it - speculation.

[JETSOLVER]

Just goes to the passion these names have in them. We as yet have nothing but Motor Trend and Road and Track(they said a Boss was definatly a go before the restyle in 08 :wacko: so take this stuff with that in mind ) from several months ago(magazine lead time) and some rumours about a new engine family.

 

Have another fact. Try out the FRPP home page lately? You should. It gives a clue where Ford and Ford racing are taking their next Mustang cues from. And make sure you have your speakers up and have time to watch the video's :happy feet:

 

New FRPP start page

 

Enjoy!!!

[carnut]

I have my doubts about Ford using the old Windsor style engine, the modular motor is more likely.

 

Or.......did I miss the point.

 

What a great platform to build a high horsepower stroker on :hyper:

[MustangFanatic]

Where are you getting this information? Because without a reliable source, one tends to sound like a UFO researcher. Who at Ford claims there is a Boss Mustang coming in MY 09? Who said it would not be equipped with the 4.6 or 5.4? I think you're transferring wishful thinking into an authoritative position. Yes, Ford announced that the Hurricane line will be renamed to Boss. With the new Boss Crates, who knows if that will even happen now (does Ford want two lines of engine sharing the same name?). I hold to my original position....stating emphatically that the Boss Mustang is coming in MY 09 is irresponsible. Yes, very wishful thinking (and I eagerly share it!) but stating it as a fact demands a source (other than the water cooler at Romero). I'm not trying to insult you...I just think it's important to delineate fact from fiction and destroy all rumors.

 

 

CobraFan, this article was published in the Detroit News earlier this week. While it is still speculation, it does provide some insight for my comments. Text of the article is below:

 

Ford revives Boss engine

 

Rebirth of its legendary V-8 revs up racing, street versions at 340-500 hp in Mustangs and F-150s.

 

Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News

 

The Boss is back.

 

Ford Motor Co. is reviving its legendary V-8 nameplate with a modern version of the Boss 302, which debuts as a crate engine offering from Ford Racing at the Specialty Equipment Market Association Show today in Las Vegas.

 

But the Boss name will not be limited to the race track. Ford insiders say it is also the new name for Ford's Hemi-fighting V-8 that had been known internally as the Hurricane. That name lost favor at Ford after Hurricane Katrina and the automaker opted to dust off the popular Boss name.

 

The original Boss 302 debuted in 1969 under the hood of a limited edition Mustang of the same name. Sources familiar with Ford's product plan say the company is planning a 40th anniversary edition of the pony car for 2009 that will feature a production version of the new Boss engine. But the new motor is expected to make its production debut in the next-generation F-150 pickup, due out in 2008.

 

Reintroducing the Boss name on a racing engine is a good marketing move, according to analyst Jim Hall of AutoPacific in Southfield. "It builds up hype for the engine beforehand," he said. "They're trying to connect the concept of a crate engine with the production version. It gives you some credibility to talk about the new powertrain."

 

The 5.0-liter V-8 crate engine will go on sale early next year. It will be available in a variety of configurations with between 340 and 500 horses of power. The base block will start at $1,759, with prices for complete engines ranging from $4,650 to $10,000.

 

"It's designed to withstand the rigors of racing, but is also affordable and streetable," said Jamie Allison, manager of the Ford Racing Performance Group. "It's a new old engine."

 

Other than the name and the number of cylinders, there will not be a lot of similarity between the Boss 302 crate engine and the production version. While the iron-block crate engine uses old-fashioned push-rod technology, Hall said the production version will be an overhead-cam engine. It is also likely to have variable valve timing to boost fuel economy.

 

Ford killed the Hurricane program in 2005 because of concerns about development costs and rising gasoline prices. That decision dismayed many analysts who said the company desperately needed a more powerful V-8 to compete with DaimlerChrysler AG's Hemi and General Motors Corp.'s Vortec V-8s. Ford Americas President Mark Fields revived the Hurricane project earlier this year, but later decided to change the name.

 

Erich Merkle, an analyst with IRN Inc. in Grand Rapids, said that was the right move.

 

"This is an incredibly important engine for Ford," he said. "If you really want to be competitive in the pickup segment, you better have a good engine. They need it for the Mustang, too. Right now, the Mustang doesn't have any competition out there. But that is going to change."

 

Fields promised to introduce a new version of the Mustang every year as part of the firm's new "Way Forward" strategy. Next year will see the introduction of the Shelby GT -- a cheaper version of the Shelby GT500 -- and the company has already announced plans to build a Bullitt version in 2008.

 

Sources familiar with Ford's product plans say, the new Boss Mustang follows in 2009, in time to face a challenge from the new Chevrolet Camaro and Dodge Challenger. Ford plans to introduce a completely redesigned Mustang in 2010.

 

In addition to the special edition Mustang and the F-150 pickup, Merkle expects the Boss to find a home in the Lincoln Navigator and Ford Expedition SUVs.

[68fastback]

.

 

Maybe it's the machine I'm on but I can't even find an active video link at FRPP. Oh, and I thought it was an interesting typo that the main caps are "modular" iron <lol> that's emabrassing

 

---------------------

 

In reading throught the Boss literature I found some clarification on my own questions in an earlier post above, so let me share that here:

 

The new Boss 302 motor(s) ARE low-deck designs like the original 302, not hi-deck 351-based.

 

FRP site says that all FRP crates will be repackaged on the new BOSS 302 block (surely this means only 302CID (and new 331CID) pushrod craes, not the 347/351/363 which must be on the 351-hi-deck design.

 

This makes me wonder: why did Ford pick 302-331CID -- especially since 331 is a new displacement and is not the top HP Boss Surely this cannot be coincidence

 

 

Here's my guess: Ford is still hedging it's bet for a 2009 modular alloy 331 BOSS!!! There can be no other logical explanation. Not saying there WILL be mod-based '09 BOSS -- besides my gut telling me that's what I [and many others] want more than anything else on planet earth and Ford would be incredibly foolish not to perfect the hi-lift NA cams and plenum [and/or dual-runner] intake on the Ford GT heads betw now and '09 or earlier.

 

Emissions must figure into this equation somehow: the only FRP modular crate motor with more output than the '01 cobra is the $14,995 5.0L 400+HP boy-racer motor with magnesium plenum intake. FRP offers a broad-torque dual-runner magnesium intake for the 4.6 Cobras <$3,100 -- yikes!> as a separate item, but the plenum boy-racer manifold is only available on the racing crate.

 

Galpin Auto Sports, clearly a favored fabricator and current Ford darling, introduces a "2007 Boss 302" with Ford's approval but with no Ford availability information to be had.

 

Put the above three paragraphs together and, strategically, it tells me either Ford was caught off-guard on the depth of the interest in a modular NA S197 Boss302 OR felt they needed to intro the Boss engine program now and had to have some tidbits to hold-the-fort of the faithfull until either they do a 2009 Boss and have a chance to decide whether it will be based on the new Boss302 500HP crate (highly unlikely due to emissions) or maybe an alloy 5.0 or 5.4(331) modular, or decide they aren't going to do a Boss on the S197 <please no!>

 

Of course there may be some hard reason for a 302-based 331 pushrod motor being introduced for the first time now, e.g. if they somehow knew GrandAm/Trans-Am would be setting a new CID limit, or some such thing, but this is way too early to even toy with that now.

 

I can only conclude that this gamesmanship is a placeholder. There were more '79 Boss 302s at SEMA (at Ford inside, in the Ford muscle-car corral outside, and by private owners) than I've ever seen in one place in my life. Also, Ford carefully paired vintage and S197 showpieces for the Shelby GT-H, Shelby GT, Shelby GT500 and Boss302 -- paired with both Galpin "2007 Boss302" inside and paired with Saleen Boss PJ outside. But not a single Mach1 or Bullitt in sight anywhere. In all these pairings, the only 'bogus' vintage/new pairings were the Boss 302, i.e. the 'current' unit is not an actual Ford production car.

 

Anyone see any other Boss302 logic that makes sense, or that Ford might be working, or that ties into other Ford/SA/FRPP actions/offerings I may have missed?

 

----------------------

 

Fanatic, thanks for posting that article -- hadn't seen it when I posted the above. I see our fairth will be rewarded afterall :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

[JETSOLVER]

I mention cues in my earlier post right, cues? Dan is right, there is no way that a new Boss will be based on a 46 year old engine!! there is an entirely new testing program for emmisions and fuel economy in the NEAR future) I can't help but think, if for no other reason than the engine shown in the all up toy racer is pretty much old news, that Ford has pretty much finished up developing the Mod engine in its current incarnation. We know that Mark Fields reintroduced the Hurricane(ne. BOSS/large displacement) program based on the COMPETITION!

 

SEMA is for parts and Ford has been getting its but kicked in the aftermarket crate area for a while now. And the Mod was supposed to have taken the place of the Windsor series by now. It hasn't, and I'll bet it won't. Trust me, an early Mod Teksid block is worth its weight in Silver right now, and will remain for some time to come. I tink Ford may regret at this late date not doing the minimal re-eingineering to get the GT 5.4 al block to volume production ready, but the fact is they are not casting any more and they are going for big bucks for a bare casting for that very reason.

 

Combine that with this being a dead year for the F-150 which as Fanatic mentioned again IS getting the new engine and as soon as possible(that program has been advanced at least 6 months more like 8, due the new GM offerings and a D-C one right away, what do you want to bet that the holdup on the new truck ISN"T the engine?)and no real need or resources to develop the 3 valve iteration any further and what do YOU get?

 

All of this, and the other clues(the pushed back restyle, the plant closures,recall Windsor got the axe) tells me that Ford simply got caught out this time around. We are very unlikely IMHO to see a proper Boss on this platform with the current Mod engine. They could, but for reasons already discussed it would not be a model to slot in between the GT500 and the Bullitt, but potentially to excede both in terms of cost. I'll go out on a limb and say that if Ford doesn't stretch the one new Mustang varient a year(I now believe they are intending to do just that) the best we will hope to see before 2010MY(spring 09 showing) is a Mach in the same vein as the Bullitt/Cali special idea. Or they decide to toss the Boss into that mix in that way. Which sucks, as they have the parts lying around to make for a lot of new history instead of trading on the old any longer, but business is business and Ford has other considerations than us real drivers. These great anniversary's are just at the wrong time in Fords current history and may just have to take a back seat to keeping the doors open.

 

Over to you guys while I put on my nomex

[C0braFan]

Fanatic, thank you for the source, much appreciated...and I stand corrected.

 

Jetsolver and fastback have brought up some intriguing points, about why a modular may or may not be feasible. Why not? The Detroit News article claims that the next Boss Mustang may be equipped with the new Hurricane (aka Boss) 5.4 or 6.2. Why not? If we assume Ford is working on the new Hurricane/Boss, it might very well be an aluminum block with displacement on demand, to keep up with DC and GM. Even if it is nodular iron, that won't be so bad...a bit of a backwards step for a brand new engine line, but maybe it's preferrable for the truck line that will debut the new engine.

 

Imagine that...cruising along the freeway at ~2000 rpm on 4 cylinders (3.1-liters), and getting 25 mpg..... when an 09 Challenger comes along side you...imagine the acceleration when those other 4 kick in and the full 6.2 liters comes to life in your Boss 380. Although the mustang would probably get the 5.4 instead of the 6.2.

 

What I keep coming back to is the FR500 street car (not to be confused with the 500C or 500GT race cars). The FR500 is based around a stock 4.6 Mustang GT with an FRPP supercharger, with a claimed 500 hp. Now that's with a 4.6? So, either that s/c is running some serious psi or the internals have been significantly upgraded. If the 4.6 3V is capable of handling so much power, why isn't it a good choice for a new Boss Mustang?

[68fastback]

.

 

I think a Boss has to be a high-revving NA motor (at least for me) so the 3V 4.6 might be hard-pressed to get to 400+ HP and meet emissions and hold up it's part of fleet CAFE unless demand for the V6 skyrockets -- unlikely -- because, at least presently, the mustangs ability to meet CAFE is directly tied to the number of V6 stangs even though the GT is a very docile motor. Toss 10K 400+HP NA Bosses into the mix and CAFE compliance is toast, I think. I'd be very happy with a 400HP NA 4.6/5.0 Boss but if it had to be a niche-line 5.4 alloy motor, I suspect Jetsolver is right (earlier post) that the engineering and Romeo capacity doesn't exist (but I hope we're wrong).

 

I think a S/Cd 4.6/5.0 Boss might hold up it's end of CAFE and meet emissions at 400HP, but a s/c'd Boss would neither be true to the spirit of the Boss (hi-revving, free breathing NA) and might confuse the Boss brand as well -- dunno.

 

I think Jetsolver's point on the the 5.4 alloy being a big miss is true. I've heard rumors of the Windsor closing being reconsidered, but I doubt it. Of course the 4.6 alloy at 5.0 would make a nice Boss, but, presently, there's no way to do that via bore (to preserve some semblance of hi-revving fun) with the bore-spacing of the mod series without going to spray-bore boy-racer tech (possibly not suitable for a 150,000mi production engine) or full race-prepped siamised liners (there are a couple of aftermarket race-preppers doing this) at great expense and probably requiring a niche-line to produce.

 

So if the Boss has to carry it's piece of CAFE, meet emissions, be 400HP NA alloy motor, and be reasonably priced (betw GT and GT500), there may be no acceptable alternative until a SOHC Hurricane Boss which has bore-spacing to be well-oversquare and rev freely, shares production expense with the trucks (alloy? hope so!), make 400HP with better emissions (more conservative production cam duration/overlap with aftermarket hot stuff thru FRP), CAFE targets complements of cylinder-deactivation and VVT,etc.

 

Still, the 331cid new crate Boss tells me Ford is closing no options off -- they just could surprise us with additional niche-line capacity for a 5.0/302 or 5.4/331 DOHC modular alloy Boss, but they don't have a lot of time to make '09 and if the modular line will truly be replaced by the new Hurricane Boss, it (alloy 5.4 mod) would seem like a dead-ended and imprudent resource investment for Ford.

 

Funny, but this may turn out to hinge on what Ford sees powering the +/- '10 rear-wheel drive panther replacement. The modular might seem fine for that, but there will instantly be pressure for NA HP variants and I can't see Ford carrying two V8 engine lines forward in the same-based platform (Mustang and 4-dr rear-drive mustang derivative) even tho Ford may not have finally decided on the exact configuation of that new rear-drive 4-dr platform yet.

 

And as long as the new Hurricane Boss is SOHC, it could become DOHC if competition gets crazy. But unless the HP wars vaporize, the present modular, as we know it, would seem destined for extinction/replacement by the SOHC Boss; else the DOHC mod-series would have to rely heavily on SC/turbos to compete -- too expensive, heavy, and no serious NA HP is likely for the above CAFE/emissions reasons, IMHO.

 

So here's hoping the SOHC Boss happens in alloy -- asap :beerchug:

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

I really see only one path for a new Boss 302 Mustang from Ford. I believe Ford has realized how much passion and interest there is around a new Boss Mustang (as evidenced by the fact that they made it a center piece at the SEMA show). Ford realizes that producing the Boss as a tape and stripe package without any true high performance hardware (engine, brakes, suspension) would be a HUGE mistake. Given the changing competitive landscape and the attending hardware coming from GM and DC, Ford realizes the Boss must be a serious performance piece worthy of the original. Since the current mod engine can't compete with the competitive offerings, the only engine for a new Boss Mustang is the new Boss engine series (aka Hurricane). What that all means is that the Boss won't appear until the suitable pieces are in place to produce such an animal. I agree with others, I'm not sure MY '09 is viable (but I continue to hold out hope). The bottom line is that there will certainly be a new Boss 302 Mustang, the question is when. Personally, I'd prefer to wait for a properly designed Boss as opposed to seeing Ford rush an ill-prepared Boss to market to take advantage of some "anniversary" date. I also seriously doubt that Ford will take a step backward and install a slightly updated version of the venerable small block OHV V8 in ANY new Mustang, let alone a hi-po Boss.

 

All of the attention on the Boss at the SEMA show also reinforces another hypothesis for me, that the Bullitt Mustang will be nothing more than an "appearance" package on the GT and not a true Hi-Po Mustang offering.

 

I'm with Dan, come on Ford, develop and produce an all-aloy 5.0L Boss series engine (except make mine a 4V engine!)

[JETSOLVER]

Just one little problem fanatic. Unless Ford goes to all the trouble to make the new series engine in its 5.4 and 6.2l size, then a few aluminium block versions(SVT?) and then destrokes it, You are not going to see the 5.0/302 you are hoping for.

 

But in the meantime, I came across some interesting chops today and I'll share them here for comment.

 

TMS/Danny's hot 'shops

[68fastback]

Just one little problem fanatic. Unless Ford goes to all the trouble to make the new series engine in its 5.4 and 6.2l size, then a few aluminium block versions(SVT?) and then destrokes it, You are not going to see the 5.0/302 you are hoping for.

 

But in the meantime, I came across some interesting chops today and I'll share them here for comment.

 

TMS/Danny's hot 'shops

 

Thanks, Jet... yeah, he did some nice photoshop work on them... even the retro wheels were cool

 

----------------------

 

I just got a crazy thought

 

What if Ford figures (similar to my logic above but...) that there's no point in the expense of a 5.4 mod na boss, so they do a full ECU Boss 302 off the 302 crate (something FRP customers also want!). Hey, emissions might be no worse than the mod with hot cams, and the oversquare revving and much improved cooling and tooling of the FRP boss block would be an outstanding base for most anything.

 

It would definately live up to the Boss' legendary reputation (even if they back it down to 425-450HP or so. Such a car in under 10K volume would sell-out before it was built (with sickeningly huge ADMS -- even if I can't afford that I'd still want it done right), and then all the FRP pieces and the aftermarket would cover the add-ons until the SOHC/DOHC Boss 6.2 (or whatever) arrives (following year on the refresh?

 

The only thing that's bothering me about that is the non-alloy weight, but it's the same as the vintage Boss 302, essentially, and the old 302W (dunno the C) was almost 100 lbs lighter than the mod in iron (new beffier Boss 302 could be considerably more though -- dunno). Yes, I'd prefer an alloy DOHC NA mod to that, but...

 

Hmmm, wonder how Galpin mounted the Boss302 in the S197...there sure was plenty of room around the valve covers <lol> though the tubies were a little tight ...I knew I should have tried to get a pic of that, even if it was a one-off, except I definately can't fit under the ol' cow catcher

 

-Dan

[C0braFan]

I think a Boss has to be a high-revving NA motor (at least for me) so the 3V 4.6 might be hard-pressed to get to 400+ HP and meet emissions and hold up it's part of fleet CAFE unless demand for the V6 skyrockets -- unlikely -- because, at least presently, the mustangs ability to meet CAFE is directly tied to the number of V6 stangs even though the GT is a very docile motor. Toss 10K 400+HP NA Bosses into the mix and CAFE compliance is toast, I think. I'd be very happy with a 400HP NA 4.6/5.0 Boss but if it had to be a niche-line 5.4 alloy motor, I suspect Jetsolver is right (earlier post) that the engineering and Romeo capacity doesn't exist (but I hope we're wrong).

 

 

 

If Ford is selling 150,000 Mustangs a year, then how would a 10,000 unit (max) Boss production cause a problem with CAFE requirements? This would be an extreme niche product, like the GT500, amounting to only about 5% of total sales for the Mustang platform. That will only bring the average MPG down by a few tenths, maybe half a mile at most?

 

Secondly, I think you underestimate the 3V 4.6 and the mod family in general. Porting the heads is worth at least 40 hp if done right. An aggressive cam from Comp Cams is worth another 30 hp. Add to that headers, after-cat, cold-air, and a tune, and you'll have 400 bhp with the stock bottom end. And 400 is the target for a Boss engine, I presume? It's my target anyway. As soon as I can afford it, I'm ordering the stage 3 cams from Comp, along with new titanium springs and retainers (total comes to about $1,000). Several shops are now offering CNC port work in the $1600 range as a core swap, and FRP offers a ported 3V head for $1300 each (not sure on performance specs).

[68fastback]

If Ford is selling 150,000 Mustangs a year, then how would a 10,000 unit (max) Boss production cause a problem with CAFE requirements? This would be an extreme niche product, like the GT500, amounting to only about 5% of total sales for the Mustang platform. That will only bring the average MPG down by a few tenths, maybe half a mile at most?

 

Secondly, I think you underestimate the 3V 4.6 and the mod family in general. Porting the heads is worth at least 40 hp if done right. An aggressive cam from Comp Cams is worth another 30 hp. Add to that headers, after-cat, cold-air, and a tune, and you'll have 400 bhp with the stock bottom end. And 400 is the target for a Boss engine, I presume? It's my target anyway. As soon as I can afford it, I'm ordering the stage 3 cams from Comp, along with new titanium springs and retainers (total comes to about $1,000). Several shops are now offering CNC port work in the $1600 range as a core swap, and FRP offers a ported 3V head for $1300 each (not sure on performance specs).

 

 

Even with the present mix, mustang production is constrained by the number of V6s Ford sells. The V6 has to be 39% minimum of production. The GT is limited to 51% max and the GT500 to 10% ANd it is a struggle right now to get the dealers to take that many V6s.

 

Ford will still make a S/C'd motor like the GT500, I think, so if Bosses eat into GTs it would likely be a problem. Those comp III cams, are far dirtier I assure you than the base GT. Even the GT500 would likely be cleaner than a 400+HP NA 4.6 modular in the EPA tests. But that's just a guess.

 

If you're correct, tho, I'd be in line for one

 

.

[MustangFanatic]

Just one little problem fanatic. Unless Ford goes to all the trouble to make the new series engine in its 5.4 and 6.2l size, then a few aluminium block versions(SVT?) and then destrokes it, You are not going to see the 5.0/302 you are hoping for.

 

But in the meantime, I came across some interesting chops today and I'll share them here for comment.

 

TMS/Danny's hot 'shops

 

 

True, I'd love to see a Boss 302 with a DOHC 4V engine under the hood...and I'd also like to be married to Jenn....oh, now I'm really dreaming!! The reality is that I don't believe Ford has the $ to invest in an alloy 5.0L Mod Engine, I mean why invest in a lame duck engine? Most of us can agree that the new Boss engine series will replace the mod motors, especially in the Mustang. If Ford were awash in cash, it might be considered but definitely not in the current state. While I hold out hope Ford will produce an alloy 5.0L version of the new Boss engine series, the reality is it will likely be something larger, such as a 5.8L engine that will get the nod. As long as it makes at least 400 hp, revs like a well designed oversquare engine should past 7K and is cast in aluminum alloy to keep the weight down, I can live with that trade-off. As I said earlier, I'd rather Ford produce a true Boss than a whole shipload of pretenders!

 

If Ford did decide to pursue Dan's scenario and produce a Boss Mustang with an ECU version of the Boss 302 crate engine, they would indeed sell out at a record pace for stunning ADM's. I'd certainly have to give serious consideration to purchasing one even with ADM if they were produced, although I'd rather have the aforementioned 5.0L DOHC Boss series engine with 4V heads. The next few months should be interesting as more details become available. I'd say we better all buckle up, the fun is just beginning!! :banana piano:

[JETSOLVER]

On the off chance someone with any pull reads here, I don't really give a hoot if it has 385, 390 or 400 horses.

I just want them to put the good parts in it so I don't have to spend 10k plus to get it to fighting trim. Six bolt crossed mains, forged crank, halfways decent rods and pistons, something like the GT heads, the six speed(lower torque means a real need for those gears) and the big brakes. You can make it look like a V6 rental for all I care(upon reflection, please do this), I just need enough of the good stuff to not start from scratch. Call it $37k and I'll call it a legend. And mine.

 

Oh and could you please not tell anyone until I have one?

 

 

And for what its worth, Ford has not announced any blown Mods for the 09 MY. Does that leave us the window for an SVT BOSS built on a then empty Niche line?

[68fastback]

Fanatic and Jetsolver, you guys both stole the sentiments right out of my heart!

 

-----------

 

No dead ended modular investment...+1 (though I love the alloy DOHC modular dearly -- a little jewel)

 

Make it look like a V6 rental... +1 <lol> (chuckling because I configured my '68 to look like a puppy -- er, that was, of course, before I got that $50 deal on all the Shelby parts! Oh, well... ;-)

 

-------------

 

 

If there's niche capacity in '09, maybe we get a small-block AND a big block Boss??? Now that'd be historically correct!

[RUFDRAFT]

Hi there.

[MustangFanatic]

On the off chance someone with any pull reads here, I don't really give a hoot if it has 385, 390 or 400 horses.

I just want them to put the good parts in it so I don't have to spend 10k plus to get it to fighting trim. Six bolt crossed mains, forged crank, halfways decent rods and pistons, something like the GT heads, the six speed(lower torque means a real need for those gears) and the big brakes. You can make it look like a V6 rental for all I care(upon reflection, please do this), I just need enough of the good stuff to not start from scratch. Call it $37k and I'll call it a legend. And mine.

 

Oh and could you please not tell anyone until I have one?

And for what its worth, Ford has not announced any blown Mods for the 09 MY. Does that leave us the window for an SVT BOSS built on a then empty Niche line?

 

 

In a perfect world, I would like to see Ford develop a Boss that looks like the PJ Saleen AND has the serious performance hardware you outlined and sell it all for $35K. However, I will gladly take the V6 appearance if Ford delivers on the serious performance hardware. I can easily create the exterior look I want to personalize my Boss but the performance hardware is a requirement.

[C0braFan]

If there's niche capacity in '09, maybe we get a small-block AND a big block Boss??? Now that'd be historically correct!

 

 

There's no need. A modified 281 will match the output of a Boss 429 with a few upgrades mentioned in earlier posts. What are you wanting out of a new Boss...really? Is it just the name?

 

You guys have to remember two things here. First, the Boss 429 only put out 375 hp. Secondly, that was an SAE Gross figure. Today's car makers (from 1972 forward) have used SAE Net. We take for granted how much power new engines have gained with roller cams and roller rockers simply because they aren't as noisy. But uncap the exhaust (as Ford did in that marketing video) and you'll have all the manly noise you want.

 

The Boss 302 was underrated at 290 SAE-G, while it actually made about 350. Convert that to SAE-Net and it's still only equivalent to 305 HP...i.e. a 281 3V. The race version of this engine made 450 with a redline up to 8k. So, are you wanting a Trans-Am prepped Boss, or a real street car? The race version being, of course, not street legal, nor comfortable. The old Boss 302 can't compete with a new Mustang GT in performance, handling, or comfort. So...I'm just trying to point out...what do you really want? It's not the old Boss, because that's easily matched. In terms of being a step up from the average GT... My 68 coupe is equipped with a 302 4V, 10.1:1 pistons, 230 HP from the factory...the starting point for the original Boss 302. Give it a forged crank and C heads and it's a Boss 302. In fact, the mechanical prototype for the 69 Boss was a 68 coupe.

 

The Boss 429 street engine came with a mild cam and carburetor and only made 375 SAE-G, which is approximately 325 HP in today's ratings. Even if it was under-rated, we're still talking 350 or so. This car only managed 14's at the strip back in the day. The fact we need to accept today is that a 281 3V with a simple cold air intake and tune will match a Boss 302 or 429 on the strip or track because of modern tuning.

 

So...how "historically correct" is everyone wanting out of this new engine/car? There are no indicators that the mod engine is at the end of it's production life. That is too much of a leap when Ford just revitalized it in 2005 and has invested heavily in the FR500 program. My prediction is, this alleged new Boss Mustang will get the 5.4 Hurricane with GT heads, and to meet CAFE it will have DoD technology.

[JETSOLVER]

Great points CObrafan. I think you'll find we are for the most part all in agreement here. Ford have the pieces, but they have new regs and some unpleasant truths about costs and limited engineering resources. It is very expensive to get the MOD series engines to around 400/400. The cost premiums seen here and in Australia to do this are indications. And for what its worth, even GM/Caddy with VVT are hard pressed to get much beyond 350 from what is essentially the same engine as the Ford MOD.(4.6l, 4 valve, small bore center, etc.) Fact is to do this cheaply(or what we are percieving as the cost benefit ratio, say 36-38k for discussion) would involve some pretty expensive parts. And like it or not, if for no other reasons than marketing(and there had better be the other reasons!) they have to look at 400 NA as a pretty firm target here. All the competition is pretty firm on these sorts of numbers as well. Or its relevance to all this new marketing is nullified. And they seem to have put an awful lot into this branding thing.

 

I do get your point over historical accuracy though. For me, it means a very efficient, high rev, light weight engine that allows a light weight balanced chassis to run hard at the limits, but somewhat more toned down than a bigger displacement torque monster like the current GT500. I personally feel that that car is not as elegant as the first two generations of SVT COBRA's(93-01) which were(and are) very quick,agile cars as opposed to fast boulavardier's. I want a drivers car, not one more inclined to impress at the local show and shine. And that means that they were much closer to the BOSS 302 than the BOSS 429. And coincedentaly, very close to the original SVT COBRA's. In short, I want Ford to show that its engineering is rooted in elegance and not ham fisted,short term fixes. Solutions, not bandaids.