FordGeek Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Congratulations on being the first person on record to mod their '07 Shelby! My hat's off. I don't think you'll get flames here, were mostly enthusiasts, not too many "collectors" or speculators hanging out here! I plan to do a muffler swap as soon as I get mine home, so I'm glad to hear the Flowmasters sound good. I like them on my '98 as well. I do have one question: What's your take on the shifter? Will a short throw be needed, or is the stocker good? My '98, and the Terminators I have driven, have all had terrible shifters from the factory. Thanks, and enjoy! SteelSteed, Shifters are always a matter of taste, but I'll give you my two cents. The shifter on the GT500, while providing crisp, precise shifts, feels "spongy" to me. In another post, I compared it to the SVT Focus. Not sure if you've ever driven one, but that's kind of the feeling I get with it. It's not bad, but there's something missing to make it better. It definitely has a shorter throw than prior mustangs, including the terminator. But FORD has yet to build one that I feel is spot on in terms of throw and feel. Now, if you had asked me if I was going to buy an aftermarket shifter when I took ownership of the car, I would have said yes. But now, I'm kind of getting used to it and it doesn't seem all that bad at all. We need a Kenne Bell for this thing. Evil, Rumor has it that the Kenne Bell folks are already hot and heavy working on a "monster" for the Shelby. I didn't get any specifics, but I was told it's going to make "unbelievable" power. Can't wait to see if the rumors are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 This is going to be one HOT thread for a while. Thanks Ford Geek for all your input & experiments, myself & many others will be looking forward to seeing all these great changes/add-ons documented & charted as time goes on :happy feet: YOU THE MAN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringtone Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 gret job Fordgeek. tks fo r much info. car will mod good and bring lots of power but plastic shelby name tag on trunk didnt had much power as thought by others. msrp see you soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC2004arispe Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 THANKS Fordgeek. That has to be the most informitive stuff we have heard yet, and from experiance Keep up the info and as someone else said we are LIVING THROUGH YOU until we get our Shelbys.. ... great drug for our PSDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrichard Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Great thread! Thanks Fordgeek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Best thread ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastbackman Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Good to see you're still lurking lawdude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordGeek Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Excellent post Geek. I do have a few questions. 1) When you say "we" did the work, are these friends of yours and you helped them..or were you just being generic in your choice of words? 2) I'd like to know how much it would cost for similar work...can you provide any guidance? It would be great if you had a breakdown by service...such as how much for ring/pinion, how much for dyno time, how much for exhaust. 3) Regarding the speedometer, I assume you can use a tuner tool to fix this? Is the issue simply that the tuner tools are not yet available for the GT500? 4) Obvioiusly the numbers are much better, and that's great. When you drove it afterwards, did it "feel" stronger? You mention it pulling hard, but I can't tell if that was before or after the mods. 5) What's the easiest way to find a dyno/upfit shop nearest to me? Are there some "chains" that are reputable? 6) You mention you can use any '05-07 axleback system. It would seem to me that the restriction level on something designed for the Mustang GT would be too limiting for the 5.4L engine...am I missing something? Thanks so much. Dave Dave, let me do my best to answer your questions: 1.) The "we" are the folks at Strictly and myself. I wouldn't just consider them friends, I consider them my associates in figuring out what we can do to this car. They've been competitively racing for years and Richard (shop owner) is still the record holder for the fastest stock 03 cobra in the world (9.59 @ 144 mph). Given his broad racing experience, he has forged many relationships with key industry players in the aftermarket (ie SEMA). So, his shop is usually a test bed for many new ideas and tunes. He has a tune for 03 cobras that he affectionately calls "the chronic". With basic bolt-ons a two hours of work, the chronic was able to give me 471 hp at the wheels. I go racing, thrash my car, then go home with the radio blasting and the air conditioner on high. Yes, it's that realiable. 2.) Costs will vary depending on who does the work and what parts are utilized. Although it's a matter of taste, I prefer to use FORD RACING parts only. Not the aftermarket may not have better stuff, it's just I feel comfortable knowing their stuff plugs right in. A good ring and pinion set (regardless of gear) will usually set you back around $170 to $200 dollars. With labor, it gets a little tricky and every shop will charge differently. In all honesy, it's not too difficult a task, but you do need a hydraulic press to position the pinion bearing, so you will definitely need to make friends with your local speed shop. If I were to take a guess, labor would run in the neighborhood of $200 - $250. So, you're looking at around $400 to $500 for the entire deal. 3.) In short, yes. Technically, we could have flashed the computer with the little we already know about the Shelby. But, if our hunches were wrong, we could potentially really screw things up and have no way to get things back to stock. It shouldn't be too long, however, before we're able to tune. By they way, the Shelby, like it's Mustang GT brethren, will not allow chips for tuning. The computer needs to be flashed. 4.) Before the mods, the car felt a little "weak" below 3,000 rpm. It pulled hard, but not nearly as much as in the higher rpm range. After the install, it just feels strong everywhere! It gets that much needed kick in the lower rpm range. Eventually, however, we'll have to monitor how well this added kick will translate to traction at the wheels. As it is, you can smoke your $1K worth of tires pretty easily. 5.) This is a tough question, but here are my own rules of thumb. Stick to those shops that have their own racing program. This could mean they race reguarly, and have a sponsored car (I don't mean in terms of NASCAR, but maybe a few key sponsors like local dealerships, aftermarket parts companies, etc...). These outfits will most likely have the know-how and practical experience of what does/doesn't work for your car. I would stay away from "parts only" type shops that may be the nicest folks in the world, but their experience is only theoretical. How do you find the good shops? Hang out where they do! Go to your local drag strip (if you have one near your home), and just start networking. You'll quickly find that these folks have a passion for what they do and, in most cases, would love to talk to you about their experiences. After you find the "ones" that jive with your goals, begin working with them. This isn't a gauranteed formula, but just a thought. 6.) When using minimally restrictive exhaust systems, their is no distinction between engine configuration. These "free flowing" mufflers are basically big pieces of sheet metal with a few baffles to keep the noise level just below "open header" volume. In my opinion, the stockers are great at keeping the noise level at bay, but are more restrictive than some of your aftermarket options. Hope this helps, Regards, Joseph (FordGeek) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 FordGeek, That's for the additional input. What's your thoughts on adding headers after seeing what all the restrictions & limitations are? CWHotRod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alloy Dave Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Dave, let me do my best to answer your questions: Hope this helps, Regards, Joseph (FordGeek) Excellent...thanks Joseph! I've not owned a "new" musclecar..so much of the "tuning" things are new to me. I live in a small town, so I'll have to look in the nearby "big" cities of Indianapolis and Cincinnati and Louisville to find a reputable shop. I live about an hour from IRP (Indianapolis Raceway Park), so perhaps I can attend a few drag racing weekends there to network. Orangesnake is also on this forum and lives in Indy...maybe I'll see him racing his GT500! I likely won't have my car for several months yet, so I'll be keeping an eye on what others do. My first inkling would be to swap the rear gears to somewhere between 3.73 and 4.11. But before I do anything, I'll attempt to get a baseline dyno printout. Now if I can just figure out whether it matters what brand of dyno they use...I know there are different types. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordGeek Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 FordGeek, That's for the additional input. What's your thoughts on adding headers after seeing what all the restrictions & limitations are? CWHotRod Good question CW, We're uncertain at this time how much power has yet to be tapped from the headers. I do know that the 4.6 liters responded really well to header swaps. We've talked about adding this to the list of possibilities, but we first want to confirm the power being robbed by the CATS. Sometimes, the aftermarket headers have really impressive ports at the header flange, but they don't match up to the puny exhaust ports on the heads. The trick to use a design that optimizes cylinder scavenging and I'm unsure at this point what works well for the 5.4. I'll keep everyone posted once the aftermarket or FORD comes up with replacement headers. Regards, Joseph (FordGeek) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07 GT500 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Joseph, checked your pm's lately? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 why not just control this (rev limiter) via the computer software you are using and just either shut the rev limiter off or set it to a higher rpm setting? I too can't see how adding a different rear-end gear would affect the 'true' flywheel HP. I'm with you aw. HP is a measure of absolute work (energy rate): HP, watts, joules ...and is independent of gearing. I suspect what we're seeing is how the chassis dyno actually does it's measurement since the gearing will affect torque and that will affect rate-of-change against a given resistance. Also, that motor might be coming on strong at 6250 but that looong stroke, steep rod angles and high piston speeds make it prudent to not push too far past 6500 (with rev limiter reset). I think the GT500 does a combo of timing control and, if inadequate, fuel-cutoff in its rev limiter logic (read that somewhere a while back). Interesting that the Ford GT500 tech rep I spoke with extensively in April said the engine will produce 525HP at the crank, as FordGeek is seeing (adjusting backward). Unfortunately the Ford guy also said 475 rwHP due to more efficient drivetrain -- hmmmm. The 87% humdity and 104F temp will suck a lot of HP out -- maybe at 30% and 50F air we'll see some major improvements, but, man, those nums are very respectable! Also, the Ford rep was clear that getting to 650crankHP with typical intake/exhaust mods and OD'ing the s/c will be left to the aftermarket (he implied they tested that at Ford), so I'm not suprised at the tight pulley clearences -- I'm guessing that's by design! This way, what could have been a $500 kit will be $1500 or more. A gift from Ford to their select aftermarket partners? I think maybe so. But that also encourages a fully integrated and tested, OEM-quality aftermarket kit which might make the extra expense very worthwhile. Just speculation, but, hey, I've read they even engineered the ECU/Spanish Oak for easy aftermarket program loads and alternate chip plug-ins. I think we're seeing the new face of forced-QC in the aftermarket and I think that's a very good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdude Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I thought new dynos compensated for air temp/humidity/barometric pressure, and spit out a consistent hp/tq rating. Please keep in mind that I am an ignoramus when it comes to such matters and I could have dreamed all this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyRay Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Hey Geekster, With the 4:10 gear what kind of MPH do you get in 1st gear? I,am wandering if this gearing makes 1st gear worthless. I do like the fast out of the hole feel. Thanks!!!!!!!!! BillyRay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06ragtopGT Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I believe your getting about 37 extra hp out of those great looking Tungsten stripes. What a great looking color combo. SCT has been advertising a tune for the Shelby for months. I hope when everyone gets familiar with silver oak it will be plug (mod) -n- play as easy as 05'-06's. The next months are going to be reeaaallly interesting. Thats for not wasting time and get back to work!!!!! Now I just need to find a car. (gears for sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
442forever(noolds) Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Geek, you are the pioneer of the 07 GT500 mods. Props! And to spend the time too satiate our tortured minds is admirable beyond humanity. THANK YOU! I do have an observation on ford. The owners manual that was down loaded here with what we all thought was," old publication" with the 475hp list may have indeed been the real deal. Maybe a little bogus hype was initiated by the tang team? 500hp was just a little," wag the dog" to draw attention. Why is there no product literature? For a reason. Maybe there wont be any? Just a perspective. I am going to be very interested to hear what you do with the cats? Are you going to wholesale them, or go free flow after market? And when the flash tuner is up, the numbers are going to be AWESOME! Bye bye rev limiter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMO-GT500 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 the guys over on SVT Performance are having quite a discussion about this thread svt thead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordGeek Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Hey Geekster, With the 4:10 gear what kind of MPH do you get in 1st gear? I,am wandering if this gearing makes 1st gear worthless. I do like the fast out of the hole feel. Thanks!!!!!!!!! BillyRay BillyRay...not quite useless, but it goes pretty quick. It'll still take you to around 40 to 45 mph. Only estimating at this point given that I haven't recalibrated my speedo. But I'm like you...I enjoy ripping out of the whole, especially when staging shallow. Regards, Joseph(FordGeek) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordGeek Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 the guys over on SVT Performance are having quite a discussion about this thread svt thead Yeah, I noticed that. Good discussion and good points are being made by all. For our purposes, some clarrifying points: 1.) HP numbers are STD, not SAE. 2.) The best of the inital dyno runs (412) came after a lengthy cool down. The swap took around 2 hours so some additional cooling may have impacted the numbers for the post-swap set. 3.) Again, just reporting reality based on what the case was with me. Everyone has a right to their opinion based on past experiences. These were mine...whenever they get their Shelbys they'll come to their own. 4.) It's commonly known that gear swaps do not increase engine horsepower; they bring it on sooner. Our findings, however, are that if we're to push the rev limiter out a bit, there will indeed be additional HP to be had because the HP curve does not taper off toward the top of the rpm range. 5.) I'm trying to contact the guys at Lethal to see exactly what everyone is talking about. It could be that they've downloaded the codes from the Shelby computer (we did the same) but have done enough research to realize they're pretty similar to something that already out there. Not sure, but I'd like to find out given that their name has come up quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68fastback Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Yeah, I noticed that. Good discussion and good points are being made by all. For our purposes, some clarrifying points: 1.) HP numbers are STD, not SAE. 2.) The best of the inital dyno runs (412) came after a lengthy cool down. The swap took around 2 hours so some additional cooling may have impacted the numbers for the post-swap set. 3.) Again, just reporting reality based on what the case was with me. Everyone has a right to their opinion based on past experiences. These were mine...whenever they get their Shelbys they'll come to their own. 4.) It's commonly known that gear swaps do not increase engine horsepower; they bring it on sooner. Our findings, however, are that if we're to push the rev limiter out a bit, there will indeed be additional HP to be had because the HP curve does not taper off toward the top of the rpm range. 5.) I'm trying to contact the guys at Lethal to see exactly what everyone is talking about. It could be that they've downloaded the codes from the Shelby computer (we did the same) but have done enough research to realize they're pretty similar to something that already out there. Not sure, but I'd like to find out given that their name has come up quite a bit. ..and thanks so much for keeping us posted -- great info!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2008GT500KR Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Yeah, I noticed that. Good discussion and good points are being made by all. For our purposes, some clarrifying points: 1.) HP numbers are STD, not SAE. 2.) The best of the inital dyno runs (412) came after a lengthy cool down. The swap took around 2 hours so some additional cooling may have impacted the numbers for the post-swap set. 3.) Again, just reporting reality based on what the case was with me. Everyone has a right to their opinion based on past experiences. These were mine...whenever they get their Shelbys they'll come to their own. 4.) It's commonly known that gear swaps do not increase engine horsepower; they bring it on sooner. Our findings, however, are that if we're to push the rev limiter out a bit, there will indeed be additional HP to be had because the HP curve does not taper off toward the top of the rpm range. 5.) I'm trying to contact the guys at Lethal to see exactly what everyone is talking about. It could be that they've downloaded the codes from the Shelby computer (we did the same) but have done enough research to realize they're pretty similar to something that already out there. Not sure, but I'd like to find out given that their name has come up quite a bit. fordgeek, I am curious at to which gear you ran in? I have noticed on prior dyno runs it made a pretty big diff which gear I was running in. Seemed much better in 1 to 1 then a lower gear.ON an automatic C-6 veh I had over 20hp diff from 2nd to drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TORQUERULES Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 If the GT 500's exhaust is anything like the current Mustang GTs and even the Gen 2 Lightning, mufflers do nothing for power (especially approx. 34 whp). Neither do gears increase power. Sooo, I say the second pull is probably more representative of what the car will pull stock, heat soaked, with high temps and humidity. What was going on in that first run is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOval Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 If the GT 500's exhaust is anything like the current Mustang GTs and even the Gen 2 Lightning, mufflers do nothing for power (especially approx. 34 whp). Neither do gears increase power. Sooo, I say the second pull is probably more representative of what the car will pull stock, heat soaked, with high temps and humidity. What was going on in that first run is anyone's guess. Yeah, there're always aberrations on dyno runs. I think we just need to see at least a couple of more GT500's make dyno pulls stock then we'll start to get an idea of what they have. FordGeek is a brave man to go first with his numbers and we all owe him a beer for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildosvt Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 If the GT 500's exhaust is anything like the current Mustang GTs and even the Gen 2 Lightning, mufflers do nothing for power (especially approx. 34 whp). Neither do gears increase power. Sooo, I say the second pull is probably more representative of what the car will pull stock, heat soaked, with high temps and humidity. What was going on in that first run is anyone's guess. BUT! If its anything like the 03/04 Snakes.......... :bandance: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Awsome stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much for taking the time to fill us in on all that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where is the video????? I can't wait to hear that baby growl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you driven the car since the mods??? How did the 4.10 gear swap affect things??? How does it feel??? KingCobra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flattusmaximus78 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I read somewere you said you had a video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordGeek Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I read somewere you said you had a video? Yes, I've got a video...it's short but you can hear the car pretty good. Does anyone have any idea how I can FTP it to this site and link to it. It's in MPG format and it's about four megs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMO-GT500 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 FordGeek, Have you tried to just include it like a photo in a post? Anyway, I echo the comments of those who thank you for getting the ball rolling on the mods. I'm guessing that what you are encountering is the complexity of how all of the pieces work together. The shelby has a lot going on, between the electronics, such as TBW, torque management and rev limiting, as well as the air/fuel management and SC characteristics. It is going to take the efforts of many like you to figure all of it out, so that others can benefit. We all appreciate it. Having some of this stuff figured out is the only positive of having to wait for my shelby to show up. John ps if you are following the discussion over on SVT performance, then you can understand how hard it is going to be to figure it all out. They tend to be hard core techies, and there seems to be no consensus at all on what the initial dyno numbers mean. This is obviously going to be a grand experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordGeek Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I read somewere you said you had a video? Hey Flattus, I completely forgot about Streetfire until I saw your closing tags. I'm uploading the video now and I'll post as a separate thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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