ilmor Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I think the proper thing to do is to take the total msrp, deduct 20% or so and give the dealer enough extra to equal that amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbillinmt Posted August 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I think the proper thing to do is to take the total msrp, deduct 20% or so and give the dealer enough extra to equal that amount. o.k if the full msrp was 38k minus your 20 percent [7600]...take that from the msrp you have 30,400 and i paid him 30,740...is this what you mean...bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbillinmt Posted August 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 o.k if the full msrp was 38k minus your 20 percent [7600]...take that from the msrp you have 30,400 and i paid him 30,740...is this what you mean...bill one thing a guy should take into consideration also.....since 1997 i have bought 7 new powerstroke crew cabs from this dealer and paid full sticker on each one inwitch he made near 4k profit on ...that is 28k he has made off me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmcgrath100 Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 Give the money back??? That's easy to say when it isn't your money that you just saved. If he was complaining about paying $8k over MSRP, no one would be suggesting the dealership refund the difference. Likewise, everyone is excited when someone comes on the forum telling about paying invoice (but what about the poor dealers in those cases?). They (dealers AND buyers) win some and lose some, unless we start having a no dicker sticker. This guy just got incredibly lucky (assuming it's all legit). If the OP has a guilty conscience for some reason, take the $8k and donate it to Shelby's Foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilli bullitt Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 Well, I got the pics today while at work. Here y'all go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbillinmt Posted August 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 This guy is 100% a fake,fraud, shill, slick, con, ID stealer and most all he has us posting about his lie! I just talked to my brother, a FOMOCO Executive, and he said to the best of his knowledge it has NEVER happened, ever. I even had to pay $500 under MSRP to get my car. I'm done wasting my time on this guy! the pictures are now posted with the vin# and the reciept...i feel apoligys are in order for calling me fake,,,fraud,,,shill,slick,,con and i.d. stearer and about posting a lie...the good peaple on this forum need to take all this guys post accordinly and you all sould recieve an apoligy from him...bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDESHELBY1 Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 No appology here. It is just the same as if you found a wallet and took all the money out of it but left the guy $2 bucks for gas, what is the difference? And I don't believe for one New York second that you did NOT KNOW the price of the Shelby GT. You seemed & appeared to know the full and actual price of the SGT that is why you RAN to the bank and 15 minutes later bought the car. Sorry you had to resort to this to get your prized Shelby GT. I also hope you don't give your son or daughter this type of impression that it is OK to do business in this manner. :angry: PS: Take a spelling lesson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbillinmt Posted August 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 No appology here. It is just the same as if you found a wallet and took all the money out of it but left the guy $2 bucks for gas, what is the difference? And I don't believe for one New York second that you did NOT KNOW the price of the Shelby GT. You seemed & appeared to know the full and actual price of the SGT that is why you RAN to the bank and 15 minutes later bought the car. Sorry you had to resort to this to get your prized Shelby GT. I also hope you don't give your son or daughter this type of impression that it is OK to do business in this manner. :angry: PS: Take a spelling lesson! go back to sweden if thats where your from...america dont need aholes like you and this nice forum shurly dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I don't know that I agree. Isn't it the dealers business to know what a car sells for? If I sell an item to a customer (I'm in sales) and I later find out my companies cost is 5k more, can I go to them and ask - sure, do they have to pay me, no. Futhermore, he basically told the dealer they sell for more, and the dealer in his haste to sell a car didn't go his research. The information is out there. I also KNOW that car dealers took advantage of my grandparents several times, they went to buy a car, paid sticker - did the dealer offer them the car for less because they knew the street value was less - heck no. I'm sorry on this one. 1. Car dealers have earned their own reputation. 2. It's their business to KNOW what a car sells for. Is it a mistake - sure, but one they would be easily avoided - absolutely. 3. This isn't a mistake like the girl at the register giving you too much change - THAT is a mistake that karma would dictate you give that extra change back. That is the right thing to do. 4. As mentioned - who knows if he would have bought the car if he knew it was 8k more, where does that 8k come from? Futhermore, the dealer doesn't loose 8k net. The dealer might be out 3k. Figure that car without the shelby mark-up cost the dealer at true invoice about 25k. add the 8k - the dealer has 33k into it. Did they lose potential profits? Sure, but if they bought it and floor planned it for a while that eats in to. Now, if the dealer called and said - hey, we sold it to you for 31k, but we are into it for 33k and would you make us whole... that is at least reasonable. I don't think he is obligated, but it's reasonable. But like everything we will all have opinions on this one. I just know if I sell item X to a customer for 5k, it cost me 8k, in my business that's the way it goes. Why should this be different? I also KNOW that car dealers took advantage of my grandparents several times, they went to buy a car, paid sticker - did the dealer offer them the car for less because they knew the street value was less - heck no. You have got to be joking! So a dealer that sells a vehicle for MSRP is taking advantage????? The buyer has no idea what they are paying??? Sorry, but that is NOT taking advantage of anyone! It is only taking advantage if the dealer was somehow hiding added cost where the buyer had no idea that they were over paying! So your grandparents were somehow mislead into signing a blank purchase order where the dealer never disclosed any pricing on it??? Then later the dealer filled the numbers in after they left and submitted that to a bank for funding???? Street value? What the heck is street value? You can't buy a NEW car on the street unless it is stolen! Everyone knows that once you take title to any new vehicle that the minute you drive off the lot it loses thousands of dollars in value. That is because it is now a USED vehicle once it has been titled. So there is no street value here! Because a dealer sells a vehicle for MSRP and doesn't just give away any of their profit they are taking advantage of people! Get real! You can not buy a new vehicle without knowing exactly what you are paying for it and every new vehicle has a manufacturer sticker attached to the vehicle that fully discloses what the MSRP price is! So let me get this straight. A new vehicle has a manufactuers MSRP of say, $25,675. A buyer comes in to buy the car and the dealer presents the deal to the buyer for a purchase price of $25,675 plus tax, title, lic. & doc fee and the buyer says, OK and agrees to that price. The dealer took advantage of the buyer???? Exactly HOW is that??? Are you saying because if it were YOU buying a car that YOU would have never agreed to pay MSRP but since your grandparents did agree to pay MSRP the dealer is the one that took advantage of them??? The buyer has no responsibility in knowing what they paid? Did the dealer hold a gun to their head and force them to buy the car at whatever price they wanted? Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 Ummm...I think maybe SAI should shut this topic down, its getting a bit too personal! Badbill, enjoy your Shelby GT, you're gonna love it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IASHELBYGT Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 My comments will be fairly short. I think what it boils down to for me is that you have to live with yourself and the issue is one of business ethics and personal responsibility. When I first ordered the car from my dealer he was clueless about the price and told me the Mustang MSRP was the total Shelby price. I guess I felt obligated to let him know what the real deal was. I do business with people fairly and I expect to be treated the same in return. If they don't, I don't do business with them again. You got a deal but at what cost? Only time will tell. I think Karma works in funny ways. Or as my dad use to say. What goes around, comes around...or something like that. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Morris Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 Actually, This can and has happened. My story was similar back in december. I posted the whole story sometime back. My dealer thought I was paying $750 over MSRP, it was actually $750 over MSRP without the 8k shelby mark-up. I signed the deal in December. Realized it was a great deal in mid-january after doing research. Even mentioned to the dealer that I had heard prices went up. I closed the deal in early February, added a SC and paid for it to be delivered to me with Shelby once I faxed the Title. Dealer called me in Late Feb after they realized they made a huge mistake and then lied to me on SEVERAL fronts trying to get me to come in and pay more. After I had paid for the car and got the Title. I know of another guy in Illinois with a very similar story. It's happened to a few of us. Whether this guy is for real, I don't know. But this does happen. I've also never heard of a dealer offering to reduce the price of a car to a consumer if they took advantage of them (like my grandparents several times). It goes both ways. Occasionally the consumer gets lucky. i never said it didnt happen, just that i dont know if its right or not. michael morris I don't know that I agree. Isn't it the dealers business to know what a car sells for? If I sell an item to a customer (I'm in sales) and I later find out my companies cost is 5k more, can I go to them and ask - sure, do they have to pay me, no. Futhermore, he basically told the dealer they sell for more, and the dealer in his haste to sell a car didn't go his research. The information is out there. I also KNOW that car dealers took advantage of my grandparents several times, they went to buy a car, paid sticker - did the dealer offer them the car for less because they knew the street value was less - heck no. I'm sorry on this one. 1. Car dealers have earned their own reputation. 2. It's their business to KNOW what a car sells for. Is it a mistake - sure, but one they would be easily avoided - absolutely. 3. This isn't a mistake like the girl at the register giving you too much change - THAT is a mistake that karma would dictate you give that extra change back. That is the right thing to do. 4. As mentioned - who knows if he would have bought the car if he knew it was 8k more, where does that 8k come from? Futhermore, the dealer doesn't loose 8k net. The dealer might be out 3k. Figure that car without the shelby mark-up cost the dealer at true invoice about 25k. add the 8k - the dealer has 33k into it. Did they lose potential profits? Sure, but if they bought it and floor planned it for a while that eats in to. Now, if the dealer called and said - hey, we sold it to you for 31k, but we are into it for 33k and would you make us whole... that is at least reasonable. I don't think he is obligated, but it's reasonable. But like everything we will all have opinions on this one. I just know if I sell item X to a customer for 5k, it cost me 8k, in my business that's the way it goes. Why should this be different? im sorry you thought your Gparents got taken for paying sticker, but most folks on here would love to pay MSRP for some cars. you are about 5k off on what REAL cost on the SGT is. i have posted the cost on here a few time. cost on most SGT is close to 37-38 with the shelby add. and form the dealer side of the discussion, i dont think the guy should have to pay the 8390. it was the dealers fault he should have know the price, but if you know the price and dont tell the dealer i think thats cheating also. michael morris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengiant Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I also KNOW that car dealers took advantage of my grandparents several times, they went to buy a car, paid sticker - did the dealer offer them the car for less because they knew the street value was less - heck no. You have got to be joking! So a dealer that sells a vehicle for MSRP is taking advantage????? The buyer has no idea what they are paying??? Sorry, but that is NOT taking advantage of anyone! It is only taking advantage if the dealer was somehow hiding added cost where the buyer had no idea that they were over paying! So your grandparents were somehow mislead into signing a blank purchase order where the dealer never disclosed any pricing on it??? Then later the dealer filled the numbers in after they left and submitted that to a bank for funding???? Street value? What the heck is street value? You can't buy a NEW car on the street unless it is stolen! Everyone knows that once you take title to any new vehicle that the minute you drive off the lot it loses thousands of dollars in value. That is because it is now a USED vehicle once it has been titled. So there is no street value here! Because a dealer sells a vehicle for MSRP and doesn't just give away any of their profit they are taking advantage of people! Get real! You can not buy a new vehicle without knowing exactly what you are paying for it and every new vehicle has a manufacturer sticker attached to the vehicle that fully discloses what the MSRP price is! So let me get this straight. A new vehicle has a manufactuers MSRP of say, $25,675. A buyer comes in to buy the car and the dealer presents the deal to the buyer for a purchase price of $25,675 plus tax, title, lic. & doc fee and the buyer says, OK and agrees to that price. The dealer took advantage of the buyer???? Exactly HOW is that??? Are you saying because if it were YOU buying a car that YOU would have never agreed to pay MSRP but since your grandparents did agree to pay MSRP the dealer is the one that took advantage of them??? The buyer has no responsibility in knowing what they paid? Did the dealer hold a gun to their head and force them to buy the car at whatever price they wanted? Please! No, My point is this. Isn't it the dealers job to know what a car is supposed to be sold for. If they are not sure, they can hold of on selling to check? Just as anyone in sales could do the same. I also disagree with the orignal poster hammering everyone with rude language etc. That said, I don't blame him one bit for buying the car for that price. I guess I find it odd that people are upset that he bought the car and got a great deal. You hear folks all the time talking about what a great deal they got. He got the deal, good for him. And yes, I still believe a fair amount of car dealers are dishonest as all heck, and they have earned their own reputation at times. Some are quite honest and do a great job, over time I hope they come out on top. But for folks here to hammer a guy for getting a great deal, I'm shocked. It's not like it was just the sales guy that didn't know the price, the sales guy didn't, the finance guy didn't, and the manager that approved the deal didn't. The car has been available for quite some time now, he even told the dealer he thought they were going for more. I'm just shocked folks don't feel the dealer had some responsibility. Look, sorry I took the post this direction, I love my car, we all do. I didn't want it to turn into an ethics course, at the end of the day he got a good deal. Be happy, as we all should for being fortunate for having these cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDESHELBY1 Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 No, My point is this. Isn't it the dealers job to know what a car is supposed to be sold for. If they are not sure, they can hold of on selling to check? Just as anyone in sales could do the same. I also disagree with the orignal poster hammering everyone with rude language etc. That said, I don't blame him one bit for buying the car for that price. I guess I find it odd that people are upset that he bought the car and got a great deal. You hear folks all the time talking about what a great deal they got. He got the deal, good for him. And yes, I still believe a fair amount of car dealers are dishonest as all heck, and they have earned their own reputation at times. Some are quite honest and do a great job, over time I hope they come out on top. But for folks here to hammer a guy for getting a great deal, I'm shocked. It's not like it was just the sales guy that didn't know the price, the sales guy didn't, the finance guy didn't, and the manager that approved the deal didn't. The car has been available for quite some time now, he even told the dealer he thought they were going for more. I'm just shocked folks don't feel the dealer had some responsibility. Look, sorry I took the post this direction, I love my car, we all do. I didn't want it to turn into an ethics course, at the end of the day he got a good deal. Be happy, as we all should for being fortunate for having these cars. Greengiant- I think the only reason you are backing him up is because you said you got the same deal, you said you never paid the real business price for the car either i.e.: the dealer never charged you the $8390 so you never brought it up. Correct me if I am wrong here. I think the issue is this: If you find a wallet and take everything out of it but $2 bucks your a thief bottom line. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbillinmt Posted August 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Ummm...I think maybe SAI should shut this topic down, its getting a bit too personal! Badbill, enjoy your Shelby GT, you're gonna love it!!! i agree....lets all drop it ..i love my car...i am personal friends with the owner and saleman here at ford who made the mistake...he says he is sollee resonsible and did want me to pay any more...he was more embarrest than any thing...i made a vow to buy every unit i buy from his dealership the rest of my life..i have never beat any one out of a penny..i do not owe a dime to no one..i am not a crook orliar or con artist as suggested by other...we will forget it all and chat about pleasent stuff.....................................i have one more question.....i had to rotate my tires front to back today at 1100 mile...the backs showed much more wear...is that a common problem with these cas...thanks guys Ummm...I think maybe SAI should shut this topic down, its getting a bit too personal! Badbill, enjoy your Shelby GT, you're gonna love it!!! i agree....lets all drop it ..i love my car...i am personal friends with the owner and saleman here at ford who made the mistake...he says he is sollee resonsible and did not want me to pay any more...he was more embarrest than any thing...i made a vow to buy every unit i buy from his dealership the rest of my life..i have never beat any one out of a penny..i do not owe a dime to no one..i am not a crook orliar or con artist as suggested by other...we will forget it all and chat about pleasent stuff.....................................i have one more question.....i had to rotate my tires front to back today at 1100 mile...the backs showed much more wear...is that a common problem with these cas...thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDESHELBY1 Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 go back to sweden if thats where your from...america dont need aholes like you and this nice forum shurly dont Your an illiterate racist too boot! What a charming combination you have in your family tree. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbillinmt Posted August 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Your an illiterate racist too boot! What a charming combination you have in your family tree. :P if you dont have something pleasant to say why dont you please seal your slanderous lips..thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFBLUE Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Well this will be closed soon. No one asked by opinion, but I'll give it anyway. If I got the same deal like the original poster did and then the dealer came back and said they made a huge mistake, and I knew they had (whether before or after the sale), I would do the following: I would figure out what Invoice and holdback was and pay them that (depending on options it would probably be in the $36K range). That way they aren't losing any money and I'm still getting a great deal. I would think the dealer would be more than happy to accept that deal in this situation. My dealer is on these boards and may have a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 No, My point is this. Isn't it the dealers job to know what a car is supposed to be sold for. If they are not sure, they can hold of on selling to check? Just as anyone in sales could do the same. I also disagree with the orignal poster hammering everyone with rude language etc. That said, I don't blame him one bit for buying the car for that price. I guess I find it odd that people are upset that he bought the car and got a great deal. You hear folks all the time talking about what a great deal they got. He got the deal, good for him. And yes, I still believe a fair amount of car dealers are dishonest as all heck, and they have earned their own reputation at times. Some are quite honest and do a great job, over time I hope they come out on top. But for folks here to hammer a guy for getting a great deal, I'm shocked. It's not like it was just the sales guy that didn't know the price, the sales guy didn't, the finance guy didn't, and the manager that approved the deal didn't. The car has been available for quite some time now, he even told the dealer he thought they were going for more. I'm just shocked folks don't feel the dealer had some responsibility. Look, sorry I took the post this direction, I love my car, we all do. I didn't want it to turn into an ethics course, at the end of the day he got a good deal. Be happy, as we all should for being fortunate for having these cars. What does any of this have to do with your opinion that your grandparents got taken advantage of because they paid MSRP for their vehicle? I did not comment about the other poster and how his dealer messed up. The dealer did mess up. But this has nothing to do with your grandparents paying MSRP for their car, nor were they taken advantage of because they paid MSRP. NO ONE is ever taken advantage of when buying a car. Not unless they are being lied to and cheated in some way that they could not have known they were being cheated. But when anyone buys a car they KNOW the price they are paying, period! If they don't like it they don't buy it! If they buy it then that is their choice to buy it! No one is holding a gun to their head making them buy it! Therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE to be taking advantage of anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Morris Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Well this will be closed soon. No one asked by opinion, but I'll give it anyway. If I got the same deal like the original poster did and then the dealer came back and said they made a huge mistake, and I knew they had (whether before or after the sale), I would do the following: I would figure out what Invoice and holdback was and pay them that (depending on options it would probably be in the $36K range). That way they aren't losing any money and I'm still getting a great deal. I would think the dealer would be more than happy to accept that deal in this situation. My dealer is on these boards and may have a different opinion. im here!! i still think its the dealers FAULT. he should have known the COST of HIS car, but with that being said i dont think I would buy the car if i knew the COST was 8390 more than they thought it was. thats not just coming from a dealer its just the way i do things. doenst make it right or wrong just my thoughts im glad Bill got a SGT and i feel sorry for the goofy dealer for not knowing his product. we have all talked about the dealers and sales guys not knowing about these cars this is just a great example. learn your product and this doesnt happen michael morris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mffarrell Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Your an illiterate racist too boot! What a charming combination you have in your family tree. :P +1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbillinmt Posted August 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 +1000 at least im not a swede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmagner1 Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 im here!! i still think its the dealers FAULT. he should have known the COST of HIS car, but with that being said i dont think I would buy the car if i knew the COST was 8390 more than they thought it was. thats not just coming from a dealer its just the way i do things. doenst make it right or wrong just my thoughts im glad Bill got a SGT and i feel sorry for the goofy dealer for not knowing his product. we have all talked about the dealers and sales guys not knowing about these cars this is just a great example. learn your product and this doesnt happen michael morris good for you , you got a great deal and do i feel sorry for the dealer '''NO''' theres a another saying too LET BUYER BEWARE ' but in this case its the ford dealer ... do you feel sorry all the people that 5 and 10 grand over msrp from the big bad ford dealer ... i guess your karma thing is right but it took it out on the ford dealer ENJOY THE CAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTHERO Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 This is getting out of hand. Topic closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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