zdle Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 For anyone that would like to get rid of the ridiculus drive shaft in this car , here is a good one from Coast Driveline Venture Ca, I talked with these guys , and they could not explain the OEM drive shaft , they said t it was designed by Jaguar , but they got a request from Bondurant at Sears point to do this because of vib's above 70 , and track road course handling.........? It took me 2 days but I just had my tonsils out , and a deveated septum fixed so I was not at full energy. I finished late this afternoon , and took it out , it is smooth , and sharper off the line . This part is 1/2 the weight of the original , and no center joint. It fit perfectly , I had move a small E-Brake cable bracket 2" out board . There is a ferrle crimped to the E-Brake cale and you can't move it so I just pryed the bracket open off the ferrel , and moved it where I wanted , marked , and drilled a new hole for the self raping screw, and put it in with lock tight. The hardest part is drilling the hole, its right behind the exhaust pipe a nice long sharp drill does the trick. They claim 14 RWH with this , but since I cant measure it I prefer to enjoy the smooth balance and feel . It does feel sharper off the line. Im trying to add phots but I can't seem to "Add Tis Attachment" ??? Also my CA glue fix on my scoop has held great for three weeks , and it doesn't get any hotter than Apple Valley Ca. I have 6000 miles on my car , and it is fantastic , every little thing I do adds noticeably. Next is a SCT Tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterguy959 Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 I have been wondering about the double drive line? Can someone rationally explain this design? Would like to know as I am thinking about the same thing here. Can you provide a web address or phone number-please send to my email-mustangcars@cox.net Somebody else can help with the pics as I have had trouble as well, user error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Guys, if you replace with a single driveshaft your screwing up. The 2 piece drive shaft is designed as such for high speed. Two small shafts reduce the critical speed which is the speed at which the shaft EXPLODES! I have had this happen to me where the shaft explodes in the middle. Do not replcae with a single piece or you might destroy your car or worse. The driveshaft speed is the main reason for a "governing" a car. Go carbon fiber or aluminum but don't bypass your carrier bearing. ZDS, did Coast tell you the critical speed of the shaft? If not you need to find out and if they don't know or give you a hard time about it I would seriously question the shaft. It's determined on length, material, thickness of the material and diameter. You can also determine driveshaft RPM by engine RPM/gear of transmission. 3000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 4412 driveshaft rpms 3500 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5147 driveshaft rpms 4000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5882 driveshaft rpms See why critical speed is important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcinnis Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 I installed a Coast aluminum driveshaft in my car: 07SGT3456. I have dyno runs for both before and after the install. The driveshaft opperates much smoother than stock and did free-up 13RWHP. The install is very simple and worth the effort if you're looking for an instant rear wheel horsepower gain. BTW, the guy's at Coast are awesome to work with and they race with these driveshafts all the time. 07SGT3456 Paxton/Shelby Supercharger Ford Racing 3:73 Gears Coast Aluminum Driveshaft Performance Dyno Tune = 456RWHP :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerS Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Some of the top builders of the GT500 are using the driveshaft shop steel and chromemoly one piece drive shafts up to 900 rwhp. You need to utilize a 3 1/2" diameter though because the 4" diameter shaft will hit the floor boards under load. http://www.driveshaftshop.com/item168735.ctlg http://www.driveshaftshop.com/item169589.ctlg http://www.driveshaftshop.com/item170346.ctlg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDESHELBY1 Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 Guys, if you replace with a single driveshaft your screwing up. The 2 piece drive shaft is designed as such for high speed. Two small shafts reduce the critical speed which is the speed at which the shaft EXPLODES! I have had this happen to me where the shaft explodes in the middle. Do not replcae with a single piece or you might destroy your car or worse. The driveshaft speed is the main reason for a "governing" a car. Go carbon fiber or aluminum but don't bypass your carrier bearing. ZDS, did Coast tell you the critical speed of the shaft? If not you need to find out and if they don't know or give you a hard time about it I would seriously question the shaft. It's determined on length, material, thickness of the material and diameter. You can also determine driveshaft RPM by engine RPM/gear of transmission. 3000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 4412 driveshaft rpms 3500 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5147 driveshaft rpms 4000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5882 driveshaft rpms See why critical speed is important? I absolutley disagree here. It has been brought up to me by Blue Oval and by other high end & high speed "professionals" that a light weight single shaft frees up RWHP big time. I mean 13 RWHP is a lot of HP to add to the car and the DYNO proves it. Also you, like me, are NOT professionals in this area that is why we are considered arm chair mechanics, we don;t do the high end work ourselves, most of it anyway, we leave it to the pros in that field. Go with the pro's and I think the drive shaft is a good idea and good thing to have. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 I absolutley disagree here. It has been brought up to me by Blue Oval and by other high end & high speed "professionals" that a light weight single shaft frees up RWHP big time. I mean 13 RWHP is a lot of HP to add to the car and the DYNO proves it. Also you, like me, are NOT professionals in this area that is why we are considered arm chair mechanics, we don;t do the high end work ourselves, most of it anyway, we leave it to the pros in that field. Go with the pro's and I think the drive shaft is a good idea and good thing to have. B) nope Sweede. I may not be a professional but I speak from personal experience. Changing the gears in the rear end of my Dodge truck increased the rotational speed of the driveshaft. Driveshafts are made specific to their application and do have a critical speed - the speed at which the driveshaft disintegrates. When mine failed I then had to have a driveshaft specially designed to accomodate for the lentgh of 72+" and the diameter of 4.25" and we had to have it spun at high rpm's to be sure the critical speed was higher than the stock critical speeed of about 4200 pms. I was able to get away with about 5500 rpm's. If you replace the two piece short with a one piece long, be sure to get the engineers data. Why do you think they put a two piece in the Viper truck or nearly any other high speed vehicle? You don't believe me, it's your life. At 85 mph in my truck when my driveshaft exploded, I found out the hard way. BTW in case you're thinking it was u joiunt failure, the front and rear u joints were still attached. I said earlier get the aluminum or carbon fiber shaft's but be sure you know what you're getting. If you do a gear swap, you have to re-engineer the driveline for high speeds or it could kill you. If you get a one piece be sure it can take a critical speed of 6000 rpm's or it can kill you. If you're hauling a$$ and a vibration starts back of, you're approaching critical speed failure. This is what it looks like when a shaft explodes. This is the MIDDLE of the shaft. Still connected... I'm not going to argue with anyone I'm just giving a heads up to know what you're doing before modifying such a critical point on the car. Take it or leave it. Believe whom you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdle Posted August 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I absolutley disagree here. It has been brought up to me by Blue Oval and by other high end & high speed "professionals" that a light weight single shaft frees up RWHP big time. I mean 13 RWHP is a lot of HP to add to the car and the DYNO proves it. Also you, like me, are NOT professionals in this area that is why we are considered arm chair mechanics, we don;t do the high end work ourselves, most of it anyway, we leave it to the pros in that field. Go with the pro's and I think the drive shaft is a good idea and good thing to have. B) Stump I talked with the guys at Coast ( old wset coast racing guys) , and they said in no uncertain terms they drove the GT , at 140 mph for testing with this drive shaft , I just drove about 200 miles of freeway and surface streets from apple Valley to Orange county , 100 mph to mall speed bumps , and not a tick , vib or bottom ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this is a great mod for the SGT , and it does smooth out the ride , and shifting . I wish I could put these pictures I have on this thread ????? ZDS Guys, if you replace with a single driveshaft your screwing up. The 2 piece drive shaft is designed as such for high speed. Two small shafts reduce the critical speed which is the speed at which the shaft EXPLODES! I have had this happen to me where the shaft explodes in the middle. Do not replcae with a single piece or you might destroy your car or worse. The driveshaft speed is the main reason for a "governing" a car. Go carbon fiber or aluminum but don't bypass your carrier bearing. ZDS, did Coast tell you the critical speed of the shaft? If not you need to find out and if they don't know or give you a hard time about it I would seriously question the shaft. It's determined on length, material, thickness of the material and diameter. You can also determine driveshaft RPM by engine RPM/gear of transmission. 3000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 4412 driveshaft rpms 3500 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5147 driveshaft rpms 4000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5882 driveshaft rpms See why critical speed is important? Stump I talked with the guys at Coast ( old wset coast racing guys) , and they said in no uncertain terms they drove the GT , at 140 mph for testing with this drive shaft , I just drove about 200 miles of freeway and surface streets from apple Valley to Orange county , 100 mph to mall speed bumps , and not a tick , vib or bottom ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,this is a great mod for the SGT , and it does smooth out the ride , and shifting . I wish I could put these pictures I have on this thread ????? ZDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdle Posted August 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Guys, if you replace with a single driveshaft your screwing up. The 2 piece drive shaft is designed as such for high speed. Two small shafts reduce the critical speed which is the speed at which the shaft EXPLODES! I have had this happen to me where the shaft explodes in the middle. Do not replcae with a single piece or you might destroy your car or worse. The driveshaft speed is the main reason for a "governing" a car. Go carbon fiber or aluminum but don't bypass your carrier bearing. ZDS, did Coast tell you the critical speed of the shaft? If not you need to find out and if they don't know or give you a hard time about it I would seriously question the shaft. It's determined on length, material, thickness of the material and diameter. You can also determine driveshaft RPM by engine RPM/gear of transmission. 3000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 4412 driveshaft rpms 3500 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5147 driveshaft rpms 4000 rpm / .68 OD gear = 5882 driveshaft rpms See why critical speed is important? Stump , thanks for the info on the lessons learned , saftey first I agree, I am a good mechanic , Jet Engines , and I am an engineer , I was very carefull to examine the shaft it was a excellent part turned down from aircraft gade 6061 Alu- Tube (not cheap stuff) it also had a balance weld , so I know it was spun up to high rpm. My installation was done with the proper torques , and calibrated torque wrenches , all assmebled with Blue - Lock-Tite. ..........Pleas don't scare me any more !!!!......................Zds Stump , thanks for the info on the lessons learned , saftey first I agree, I am a good mechanic , Jet Engines , and I am an engineer , I was very carefull to examine the shaft it was a excellent part turned down from aircraft gade 6061 Alu- Tube (not cheap stuff) it also had a balance weld , so I know it was spun up to high rpm. My installation was done with the proper torques , and calibrated torque wrenches , all assmebled with Blue - Lock-Tite. ..........Pleas don't scare me any more !!!!......................Zds You guys should go to this site..........http://coastdriveline.com/Contact.htm and check out this part , call them they are good guys...........................................ZDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdle Posted August 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I installed a Coast aluminum driveshaft in my car: 07SGT3456. I have dyno runs for both before and after the install. The driveshaft opperates much smoother than stock and did free-up 13RWHP. The install is very simple and worth the effort if you're looking for an instant rear wheel horsepower gain. BTW, the guy's at Coast are awesome to work with and they race with these driveshafts all the time. 07SGT3456 Paxton/Shelby Supercharger Ford Racing 3:73 Gears Coast Aluminum Driveshaft Performance Dyno Tune = 456RWHP :o I agree with you , the only thing I had to do was relocate the E-Barke cable .......the rest was R & R . and very noticably smoother -vib free performance , crisper and sharper off the line. ...........My brother and I rode around all day and it never bottomed out. I like it............ZDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webba Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 One piece shafts are being used regularly on the gt's now. I read alot about them on the TMS forums and Blueoval. My only concern would be the manufacturer. I am not saying thse guys dont know their stuff. It sounds like they do. But there have been a few horror stories about companies who claim to know their stuff and ont and the shaft explaodes and goes through the car. One guy over at TMS is still waiting to get is car fixed 6 months after it exploded. Just do your homework and you should be all set. By the sounds of it you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDESHELBY1 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I stand with my post Stump. The big boys no what works and what does not work, you and I, like you said, are NOT professionals that said it right there. These guys do this for a living each and everyday and are engineers as well so they test and double test again before doing this type of mod. I stand pat with my response. Good rebutle though, it might have worked with the right judge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Just FYI, I called on the steel replacement shaft and the critical speed is around 7800 rpm's. This is about 5300-5400 RPM's in OD with 3.55 gears running a 29" overall diameter tire with a top end speed of about 160. Go to a smaller tire such as with the recommended tire with the 20" wheels and/or lower gears ratio in the rear end and the top end speed number shifts. Obviously the shafts are designed well. Frank said 2 out of 20 cars will develop a harmonic vibration which may or may not be cured by switching to aluminum but they are working on a couple of designs to try and fix the problem. Like I said before I'm not arguing but these are the numbers I - and maybe a few others - wanted to know. So there you go Sweede. There is your "professional" answer. I bet he went to college and everything. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDESHELBY1 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Thanks stumpybreaky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 There's a lot of professionals out there that screw things up everyday. I'm going on the basis that these two piece shafts must be there for a good reason, based not only on engineering but also on years of experience. Therefore, I choose to stick w/ the stock driveshaft for now and over time we'll see how these 1 piece aluminum units really perform and what problems, if any, they cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webba Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Hey I just read the thread I had been following over at TMS about the guy who had an aluminum shaft installed and it exploded on him. It was a bad shaft made by a crap company. Anyway I just wanted to remind you, or whomever decides to install one of these, to install a safety loop. That way of it does go to sh*t you will be protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWEDESHELBY1 Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 There's a lot of professionals out there that screw things up everyday. I'm going on the basis that these two piece shafts must be there for a good reason, based not only on engineering but also on years of experience. Therefore, I choose to stick w/ the stock driveshaft for now and over time we'll see how these 1 piece aluminum units really perform and what problems, if any, they cause. Stand pat then ilmor! Your car will be stock forever, and that is exactly the way you want it. There is NO reason to be ashamed about a "completely" stock Shelby GT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdle Posted August 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Just added the Brenspeed tune to my SGT , along with the drive shaft , and a set of MSD Coils , Woa ! it's got a bit more pop................but the driveability , and milage looks to be the same . I didn't realize there would be this much discussion on the Alum Drive Shaft , but I have ta tell you this part is way over engineered , (strength primarily due to wall thickness) where as the OEM is way over designed (as in solve the strenght problem with cheaper material and needlessly complex design) the later approach is common in corporations when the coast of material is high up front the question is can we design it cheaper ...................AH music to an engineers ear "budget to design" , Some times its cost effective to spend the money up front on better material -----that reduces design. Of course small companies dont have the same bureaucray's to deal with so if they are sharp they can see product improvement . and react qickly to put out a better product , corporations have no incentive to approach design /engineering this way. Some time it's whats on the shelf that we have used before , and then some says hey that will save us X dollars . That is the was they make decisions in corporations . I think this is an example of picking the easiest thing to improve on this car as a result of racing needs. It sure isn't the scoop ....................Unless you use CA glue like I did ..................No more scoop problem. Having driven the car now a couple hundred miles with this drive shaft it's gotta be the best money spent . ZDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 I'll take one of those engines please. A lot better than a S/C...... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdle Posted August 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 I'll take one of those engines please. A lot better than a S/C...... :D Thats a little one(CFM56-7) we are testing for the new Boeingg 737 replacement for the P3 Orion ,,,,,,,,,,,,We put the new GENx Engine back on #2 pylon soon, for completion of our testing for the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner ...............The GENx will be the most fuel effiecent jet engine ever made ........................That will make the 787 Dreamliner a money maker. Buy Boeing Stock ! ZDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webba Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 I have no issue with swapping the driveshaft out for aluminum. They have been tested for years now and work fine. But like I said make sure you install a safety loop for protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueshawk Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 It sure isn't the scoop ....................Unless you use CA glue like I did ..................No more scoop problem. ZDS. CA glue? How did you apply it? A little under a section of the flange, hold it down for a while and then move on until you got all the way around? I assume you used a gel to keep it from running? What brand? I'm just surprised that it works so well. It also appears to work well for rhino buttocks too! http://www.darwinawards.com/legends/legends1999-07.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 CA glue? How did you apply it? A little under a section of the flange, hold it down for a while and then move on until you got all the way around? I assume you used a gel to keep it from running? What brand? I'm just surprised that it works so well. I saw ZDS post earlier about the cyanoacrylate and can see how it would work. ZDS, what is your plan if you ever need to replace the stripes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I just happened across this and thought that it may interest some of you in this thread... aluminum driveshaft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdle Posted August 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I used Poly Zap , you can get this in a good Hobbie Shop , do not use any thing marked Thin , or Super thin because you can't control where it goes, The key to this is to have lots of clean paper towels to immedeately wipe the ooz out off the stripe . I did it by my self but if you have some one to help you, one person can inject a little (probably between the rivets or where ever a high spot is . The other person can quicly apply pressure while the person who injected the CA is wipping away the excess.You must keep pressure on it for about 40 seconds, and keep wipping. There is a liquid masking agents , to protect surfaces but you would have to be sure it does not harm the strip , I think good quality masking tape could be good insurance , but the most impotant thing is to be neat , and once you inject the CA keep pressur on it . Doing it by myself I didnt do as good as I could have but it has held great ,and looks fine , you might even find a debound that will clean the strip but youhave to test.....................Also it's a good Idea to have the debond because this stuff will glue you to yourself of somthing else if your not careful. Drove My car to a doctors appot. today and while on the 91 Freeway I had to slam on breaks ..............I was five feet too long and cut the facia pushed the grill back 3/4" , and generaly screwed it up.............. The air bags did not go off, and the front end just went under the back of the Toyota , it had absolutely no damage..............so there was no report. At least this time if I can the Shelby shop to do the work I can opt to not install the licence plate hold , and choose the lowe grill and brake duct, I will still try to get some pic's up when I get home. Zale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stump_breaker Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 Drove My car to a doctors appot. today and while on the 91 Freeway I had to slam on breaks ..............I was five feet too long and cut the facia pushed the grill back 3/4" , and generaly screwed it up.............. The air bags did not go off, and the front end just went under the back of the Toyota , it had absolutely no damage..............so there was no report. At least this time if I can the Shelby shop to do the work I can opt to not install the licence plate hold , and choose the lowe grill and brake duct, I will still try to get some pic's up when I get home. Zale Oh no! That's two down. :o Glad you're ok though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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