cobrafan Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 How in the world is it possible to take a picture of anything except landscaping, and get it published anywhere with this kind of nonsensical reasoning? And that means natural landscaping. It would seem to me that there are big gray areas regarding trademarks and licensing that are probably specific to a particular situation versus the broad stroke that is being painted. It is highly unlikely that Pete Dye gives his permission or garners any royalty from the pictures published in Golf Digest when they do a spread on one of his courses, or he gets some compensation from thr brochure that the golf course publishes to attract players. He always gets credit at the architect, but I would think that would be the extent of his remuneration. Unless things have changed, I believe I can in fact make a copy of music and videos for personal use as long as they are not shared with others and remain in my possession. I can even change the format, from vinyl to 8 track, for example. It would be interesting to get a real legal eagle to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Nice post Lulu, thanks for sharing your experience with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Gents...Back in 1993, the Supreme Court ruled on this topic, when artists creating DVDs and CDs were not getting paid their royalities. The Court decided that if you purchase a DVD/CD, you are allowed to make copies for your own personal use. Duplication for profit requires payment of royalities. "Profit" includes distribution (free or not), reimbursement for any blank medium, shipping charges, publication fees and even personal "fame" any copy may earn you. This is why some professional sports are blacked out in some areas on game day, and why the FBI and local police circulate in the crows of major sports events. Circulation, even for free, need permission of the owner. Any sports bar ultimately profits from displaying live events in the bar. Not a lot of enforcement on this, true. But, that doesn't make it right. Thus, I think this is where BMG may have crossed the line. Licensing...Again, and this decision remains true today, which is why/how you can download film and audio, once you pay the fees. Here's a few short stories for you. Waaaaay back when video tape was popular, there seemed a to be a video store next to every hot dog stand in the world. You could rent and watch, but you were not supposed to copy them. When it got big enough, copyright schemes were invented to prevent duplication because it was a rental, not a purchase. Hell, my first copy of The Blues Brothers back then cost me over 110.00! A friend of mine got into duplication and sold copies of feature films at half the price, and the FBI came to his door. It wasn't too bad for him, paid a fine and suffered seizure of his equipment and inventory. Then, he gave up others he thought were doing the same thing, and I was one of them. Nice friend, eh? Anyway, the FBI came to my door ready to seize my film collection, hand truck at the ready. I'm a film buff, it was my minor in college, and I have about 600 feature films on video tape which I am converting to DVD today. However, they couldn't touch anything I owned, because my copies were made from Laser discs (remember them? daddy of the DVD?). I rented the films I wanted and made video tape copies for my library. I didn't distrubute copies to anyone, no personal gain other than my person enjoyment. They left empty handed. How did I get away with this? Well, I didn't "get away" with anything, Laser discs were deemed "publications" by the Court, same as books on the shelf in a public library. No imbedded "protection" schemes. And, what is inside every public library? Copy machines (can't say Xerox, it's a TM) that expedite duplication. I didn't do anything illegal. Okay...Back to Ford and reproduction of protected materials...Trademarks, copyrights and all that crap. Ford is a big company, with many many interests to patrol and protect. Maybe this isn't so much about licensing fees, but inherrent liability? One of my favorite sites to shop for FMC parts is KarKraft. Peek here? http://www.karkraft.com/ This is a company with licensing agreements to offload FMC production line overstock and recycled/remanufactured FMC products. Nothing but FMC products here, and they have all the agreements in place, fully legal. But, about two years ago, their advertising changed. What used to be called a "Cobra", or a "Mustang" component, was changed over to "snake" and "pony". Why? So buyers could not drag FMC into court in any dispute over products. The buck (and liability chain of custody) stops at KarKraft. Last but not least, I once owned the Kenny Brown #1x Marauder, first ever supercharged Marauder, and an experimental car. It was 2002, and a year before the car came out. It made the centerfold of Car and Driver, and it was featured on an episode of Autoweek on the SpeedChannel. The Car and Driver article appeared in the April '03 edition, and I wanted some color copies of the article to have on hand for car shows. Every color print shop I went to turned me away until I could get written permission from 1) Car and Driver, 2) the photographer who took the photos, and Kenny Brown. I did, all I had to do was ask, and wait. Maybe a calendar or a tee shirt isn't a big deal, I don't think so. And, there doesn't appear to be any liability issues for FMC. However, you can't dice up who gets enforced. Like I said the last time I posted on this, maybe all someone has to do was ask? Just a thought, carry on gents. Apples and Oranges. You are comparing making published copies of something to taking a picture of something. A print shop won't make copies from a book because that is protected by copy right. You can't copy a film or CD and resell it because that is protected by copy right. But this has nothing at all to do with that. They are not copying mustangs where they are building mustangs and selling them. They are selling a picture that they took of their car! If you took a PICTURE of a CD you bought and sold that picture I doubt anything could be done about that. If you copied the CD and sold the recordings that were on that CD then that is another matter. Again, this is comparing apples to oranges. No one is copying a mustang and then selling a mustang. It is merely a PICTURE of someone's personal property that they are selling. Just like a professional photographer. If he takes pictures of something you can not make copies of HIS pictures that he took. Only HE can do that or he can give you permission to make copies. He doesn't need permission from Ford to take pictures of a mustang unless it is a mustang owned by Ford that hasn't been sold to the public. So if I wanted to take a bunch of pics of MY car and then put them into a calendar and sell it to the public, there is NOTHING Ford can do to stop me. They can TRY and they can make THREATS, but at the end of the day they would LOSE! Now if I was to include their trademarks such as using MUSTANG then "maybe" they might have a valid case. But if I take pics of MY car and sell them as "Pics of the Dudes cool blue car"....Ford is SOL! Nothing they can do about it! If I hire a printing company to make the copies and Ford THREATENED the printing company then they might refuse to print the copies merely to avoid any legal issues as a result, but that is just a case of another business not wanting to get into the middle of some legal battle. Can't blame them for that. However, if I was to buy my own equipment and sell my own pictures that I took myself, there is nothing Ford can do about it. Not unless I am passing it off as some official Ford product or something. But as just a picture of MY car? Nothing they can do other than make threats! I guess I need to just find a way to do this just to prove a point! 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2008vistablue Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Hmm...if they own the rights then they should have some responsibility in maintaining the cars so the 'brand image' isn't further harmed. Does this mean I will get free detail and maintenance services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Since I haven't seen the contents of the calendar, I cannot disagree with you in any way, nor offer an opinion. I was simply explaining some of the ground rules and parameters one can run up against. I've learned that if you live your life the right way, the laundry basket isn't very heavy. If it's just a collection of personal photographs, you may be 100 percent on target, and rightfully insulted by the actions of FMC. However, it's also been my experience that "there's always some sh*t in the game" meaning stuff we don't know about. If FMC put the brakes on something as innocent as a handful of calendars handed out for free to club members, I'd like to hear more about content. I seriously doubt this all about you and your personal property, must be a logo out of place somewhere. The one thing I like about "freedom of speech" in America, is that no one person calls the shots on what is okay, and what's not okay, and when things come into dispute before a judge in a court somewhere, it's to protect the innocent and disenfranchised from harm. I'd love to hear the full story, but like the dispute between Carroll Shelby and SAAC, I don't really give a sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Since I haven't seen the contents of the calendar, I cannot disagree with you in any way, nor offer an opinion. I was simply explaining some of the ground rules and parameters one can run up against. I've learned that if you live your life the right way, the laundry basket isn't very heavy. If it's just a collection of personal photographs, you may be 100 percent on target, and rightfully insulted by the actions of FMC. However, it's also been my experience that "there's always some sh*t in the game" meaning stuff we don't know about. If FMC put the brakes on something as innocent as a handful of calendars handed out for free to club members, I'd like to hear more about content. I seriously doubt this all about you and your personal property, must be a logo out of place somewhere. The one thing I like about "freedom of speech" in America, is that no one person calls the shots on what is okay, and what's not okay, and when things come into dispute before a judge in a court somewhere, it's to protect the innocent and disenfranchised from harm. I'd love to hear the full story, but like the dispute between Carroll Shelby and SAAC, I don't really give a sh*t. That is my thoughts. There must be more to the story here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 This is a good discussion, so lets not throw stones at each other on their views or personal experience. on a side note - I was just flipping thru a FREE traders magazine where owners pay to have a picture of their car listed in the magazine with upto 25 or so words as a listing describing the car. some photos are B/W some are in color. They name the make & model of the car, they even list a price & ph. # (can you imagine that) Now how come Ford doesn't go after them or the printing company for someone trying to sell the vehicle for a profit like new car dealers or used cars at a lower than market value price? Just a different thought & direction for this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShelbyDude Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 This is a good discussion, so lets not throw stones at each other on their views or personal experience. on a side note - I was just flipping thru a FREE traders magazine where owners pay to have a picture of their car listed in the magazine with upto 25 or so words as a listing describing the car. some phots are B/W some are in color. They name the make & model of the car, they even list a price (can you imagine that) Now how come Ford doesn't go after them or the printing company for someone trying to sell the vehicle for a profit in new or at a lower than market value price? Just a different thought & direction for this topic I don't think anyone is throwing stones here. I agree that there has to be more to the story. It can also just be a simple matter of Ford claiming copy right and/or trademark infringement and the company hosting the pics just pulled them to avoid being caught up in the middle. All it takes is for one company to cry foul and the company in the middle (printer, website, etc) that is a 3rd party to all of this is just going to jump ship and pull the plug. It is not their place to determine who is right or wrong and pass judgement on that and continue on with anything. They are just going to stop until the other two parties resolve any issues. Who can blame them for that? It's not their battle and they just don't want to end up being in the middle of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I GOT IT! We make a calender with photos of cars for sale using a different concept then a trade magazine selling cars, the only catch is limited space for advertisers & your stuck looking at the same old cars for sale for an entire month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Hotrod you sure like to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I had to do something, I'm getting bored not working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB8SNK Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 The deal here as I see it is to not make the car the centerpiece or the focal point. So, lets get a bunch of girls to model "around" a few Shelby's on each page! I doubt Ford could do anything then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 now your thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VNMOUS1 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 There is no way in the world Ford can stop someone from taking pictures of their cars and selling them for profit. I wonder if there is more to this? Is it just merely the fact pertaining to pictures of privately owned mustangs? Or were they including any type of Ford logos or something other than what is attached to the cars? Now if they were including logos or something that belongs to Ford in addition to what was attached to the cars then I can see where Ford might have a valid claim. Other than that, merely taking pictures of your cars, putting them in a calendar to sell, does not give any merrit to Ford's bogus claim. I noticed the one pic of one of the months with a pic of a mustang, but I couldn't see anything on there that pertained to Ford, such as using a pic of the blue oval or anything. Was there anything like that being used anywhere in the calendar? Just pics of cars owned by private people is not enough to prevent someone from selling calendars with pics of their cars. Now you see the type of mentality that is behind running this company and why it is in the mess it is in! To many MORONS up there screwing everything up! Well....you hit the magic phrase in your first sentence: ..."for a profit". There actually IS nothing more to it. They own the marks, period. I have state servicemarks and national trademarks up the ying yang and the fact is that they're rarely worth the paper they're written on, UNTIL someone wants to infringe upon me/damage me/etc by trying to profit by using likenesses, names, sounds, etc. If you want to create a book, calendar or whatever and GIVE it away there isn't much they can do about it. It depends on the court. Legally, you can't use any of their marks but if you fought it they'd really have to prove damages for it to be an issue. How much money and time do you have?? bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 If you want to create a book, calendar or whatever and GIVE it away there isn't much they can do about it. It depends on the court. Legally, you can't use any of their marks but if you fought it they'd really have to prove damages for it to be an issue. How much money and time do you have?? bj First, I think I know you, we have met somewhere, I am sure. Second...If not, remember that "personal gain" includes "attention", not just direct income. A close friend of mine replicated a popular "superhero" bike (motorcycle)a few years back, and he won national awards for his visual and racing accomplishments. He made zero dollars on it all, in fact he ended up very deep in the red. But, he owns the company who took credit for all the paint and polish, and this bike's appearance at national shows (and winning top awards) brought him new business. Yep...He got caught up in it all, Mattel came after him, but he got through it. 'Cept that once once the bike is declared "retired", it goes to the Mattel museum, or, the crusher. Meanwhile, he is forbidden from any more representaions without prior permission. "Fans" of anything are allowed one copy for personal use, the Supreme Court said so. This is how so many "Elvis" impersonators appear at your local Holliday Inn. The Court said there was no personal profit in personal pleasure. But, take it one step forward and you may be toast. As long as these "Elvis" guys are working in the red, they are cool in court. It's still early in '08, and I'd love to have an '08 calendar on hand, it may be a long year. Where can I find one of these here calendars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VNMOUS1 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 First, I think I know you, we have met somewhere, I am sure. Second...If not, remember that "personal gain" includes "attentevenion", not just direct income. Could be....I'm an old, bald guy with a fast car. Wait, that could be a lot of people with Shelbys! If we haven't met, we should. I'm down that way once in a while. In any case, I completely agree; it's not just cash/income. The company I work for won't let us feature YouTube on our websites because of the tremendous exposure to infringement suits. Music...even if it's just some nobody playing air guitar....a Coke can sitting on a table....anything and everything leaves us open to problems. As I said, rights are hard to protect, but what "little guy" has the resources to fight it? Shoot me a PM and let's figure out where/when we've met. bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just FYI, this has been resolved... Click this link Here's what happened if you don't want to click the link... My name is Whitney Drake and I work in Ford Communications. We've been watching this discussion with interest and I'd like to clarify what is essentially a misunderstanding. Yesterday we spoke to both Cafe Press and the Black Mustang Club and explained the situation (about the Black Mustang Club’s calendar) to everyone's satisfaction. Ford has no problem with Mustang or other car owners taking pictures of their vehicles for use in club materials like calendars. What we do have an issue with are individuals using Ford’s logo and other trademarks for products they intend to sell. Understandably, we have to take the protection of our brands and licensing very seriously. Ford did not send the Black Mustang Club a “cease and desist” letter telling them that they could not use images of their own cars in their calendar. The decision not to allow the calendars to be printed was made by Cafe Press, because we had gotten in touch with them in the past about trademark infringements on products they sold. The Black Mustang Club, and any other Ford enthusiast club, are free to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold. I think it is great that the Black Mustang Club, and any other enthusiast club, would take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials. I'm looking forward to purchasing a copy to hang in the garage next to my Mustang (even if mine isn't black). Thanks for giving us the chance to have our say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpracer43 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just FYI, this has been resolved... Click this link Here's what happened if you don't want to click the link... My name is Whitney Drake and I work in Ford Communications. We've been watching this discussion with interest and I'd like to clarify what is essentially a misunderstanding. Yesterday we spoke to both Cafe Press and the Black Mustang Club and explained the situation (about the Black Mustang Club’s calendar) to everyone's satisfaction. Ford has no problem with Mustang or other car owners taking pictures of their vehicles for use in club materials like calendars. What we do have an issue with are individuals using Ford’s logo and other trademarks for products they intend to sell. Understandably, we have to take the protection of our brands and licensing very seriously. Ford did not send the Black Mustang Club a “cease and desist” letter telling them that they could not use images of their own cars in their calendar. The decision not to allow the calendars to be printed was made by Cafe Press, because we had gotten in touch with them in the past about trademark infringements on products they sold. The Black Mustang Club, and any other Ford enthusiast club, are free to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold. I think it is great that the Black Mustang Club, and any other enthusiast club, would take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials. I'm looking forward to purchasing a copy to hang in the garage next to my Mustang (even if mine isn't black). Thanks for giving us the chance to have our say. ... "and now You know the rest of the story"... oh damn, is that a trademark infringement? keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilman Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Nice of Whitney to take the time to give us an answer "from the horses mouth". I can understand their position now. Thanks Whitney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DubbsFaris Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 This whole thread could come straight from my law school forum...You guys crack me up! I'm glad Ford turned out to not be keeping the publication of the calendars from happening. That seemed a bit "proactive" for a legal department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I would also like to thank JOE G for checking back at the BMC website & posting what Whitney wrote. sorry I wasn't a better reporter by following up on this daily, but I over slept this morning from staying up late last night watching the B & J auction & being a fantasy bidder. Thanks again JOE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portside Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 This isn't a case of RESELLING dupicated items, such as grandma's recipe, or building new mustangs to sell, or copying CD's and DVD's, etc. It is one thing to take copy righted photos that belong to someone else, duplicate them and then sell them. This is not the same thing and has nothing to do with any of that. This about taking a photo of YOUR PROPERTY, not duplicating and copying the property where you are selling that property, but taking a photo of YOUR PROPERTY and then selling YOUR PROPERTY. How does taking a picture of YOUR PROPERTY violate copy right or trademark laws? I'm not building another car that looks exactly like it and selling it for profit while claiming it is a Ford Mustang. It is a freaking picture of MY CAR that I own and bought and paid for! I'm not reproducing the car like you would be doing if you copy CD's, or someone's recipe and then sell it for profit. That clearly violates copy right and trademark laws. If you took a picture of your CD and sold that picture of the CD is that the same as duplicating the CD and selling copied CD's??? It is MY car! It is MY picture that I took or it is a picture of someone elses car that I took and obtained permission from the owner of that car. What I do with those pictures is MY right, not the manufacturer that made and sold the car! If it were that simple then how does the media get away with taking pics of celebrities, reprinting them in their news magazines and selling them for huge profits? Would pictures of common vehicles on the road not be basically the same thing??? I think a lot of this makes good common sense, except for two points: A. Lawsuits are not about good common sense. B. Lawsuits are very expensive, and as a business owner, I can assure you that you CAN be sued, even on a baseless claim, which this one is not. Anyone remember the New York lawyer who sued the owners of a dry cleaning business for $68,000,000.00 becuse they lost his suit pants? Happened very recently, summer 2007. The suit was thrown out, but the owners of the dry cleaners paid $30,000.00 in legal fees fighting it. A lawsuit would bankrupt that club in no time. Write a letter or email to Ford about this. I wrote them to ask them to stop harrassing companies like Mustangs Plus and Mustangs and Fords magazine. They sent me a response very similar to Whitney's letter above, but at least they know how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin00Stang Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 A few years ago Ford went after any business that used Ford or Mustang in it's business name. Took their domains and anything related. They even went after guys that previously had permission. It was a good way to ruin some small businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasShelby Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Whitney Drake, this is for you, acutally I bet you're probably a pretty good person, so this is for your boss. I'm gonna give you the nice version. I don't know who you are with Ford and further more I could care less. I don't know who you know that says Ford didn't send BMC anything, but you got lied to. They sure as sent me one for having pics of my own car on CafePress and making shirts for my own personal use. So tell your boss to take their PR crap somewhere else; that dog don't hunt here. I had emails from Ford's Attorneys and CafePress threatening all sorts of crap. And if it wasn't for Shelby (SAI) & AmyB, I'd have sold the damn car a long time ago. Let me clue your corporate moronic boss in. It's people like AmyB and companies like Shelby that know what brand loyalty is, they work their entire carreers to develop it and keep it, as they should. Gee, that's why they are successful. Have you even been in a Shelby GT500? Doubt it. Same with your idiot legal department that has nothing better to do then to take happy loyal Ford customers and ruin any bit of happiness they have with purchasing a car. Just so you know, I've been a customer since the 70's, but this will be my last Ford product. I'm sure you're sad, but that's the reason that Ford has been in trouble. People just don't care. So take your bosses diatribe and spew it somewhere else. I was a first hand recipient of Ford's heavy handedness and did I even so much as receive an apology...no. I don't even know or am associated with BMC, but they have my loyalty. Hell, they can send me the stuff I'll lay it out and print it for them... Ford, send your attorneys this time and see what happens. Every Shelby owner will benefit from it, I promise you that. Now I wonder if I can get my transmission fixed. Oh that's right, there's no problem with it, all the trannies that are dropping like flies has no coincidence whatsoever. For our regular and loyal members of this site, I do apologize if I've offended anyone. It's not my intention whatsoever. Just had to set the record straight; they do go after anyone that has a picture of their own car. So members, you just got lied to. So if your boss really means what you've stated they did. PM me for my address and I'll be glad to accept Fords written apology. If not, don't bother trying to smooth things over. It won't work. Thanks members for allowing me to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phr3121 Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 .... so, I take it all the Mustangs and Shelby GT500s on sale with pictures on eBay are in violation of this rule? What about the videos on YouTube (copyright)? If I decide to sell my Shelby and post pictures of it on the internet do I owe Ford and the Shelby team some money? This can get pretty ridiculous if you ask me. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arizonabud Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just FYI, this has been resolved... Click this link Here's what happened if you don't want to click the link... My name is Whitney Drake and I work in Ford Communications. We've been watching this discussion with interest and I'd like to clarify what is essentially a misunderstanding. Yesterday we spoke to both Cafe Press and the Black Mustang Club and explained the situation (about the Black Mustang Club’s calendar) to everyone's satisfaction. Ford has no problem with Mustang or other car owners taking pictures of their vehicles for use in club materials like calendars. What we do have an issue with are individuals using Ford’s logo and other trademarks for products they intend to sell. Understandably, we have to take the protection of our brands and licensing very seriously. Ford did not send the Black Mustang Club a “cease and desist” letter telling them that they could not use images of their own cars in their calendar. The decision not to allow the calendars to be printed was made by Cafe Press, because we had gotten in touch with them in the past about trademark infringements on products they sold. The Black Mustang Club, and any other Ford enthusiast club, are free to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold. I think it is great that the Black Mustang Club, and any other enthusiast club, would take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials. I'm looking forward to purchasing a copy to hang in the garage next to my Mustang (even if mine isn't black). Thanks for giving us the chance to have our say. Damn: I thought ths was still the U.S.A. Sounds like a move toward socialism to me more and more each day. I'm selling my Ford stocks. I would think Ford would want to maintain a loyal customer base, but instead they're turning on us all by pulling this crap, and that is exactly what it is. As far as I am concerned, they have just lost not only me as a current and future customer, but everyone else I can get this information to. Guess they just don't see the big picture when it comes down to "customer relations". Azbud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I would also like to thank JOE G for checking back at the BMC website & posting what Whitney wrote. sorry I wasn't a better reporter by following up on this daily, but I over slept this morning from staying up late last night watching the B & J auction & being a fantasy bidder. Thanks again JOE Glad to be of service Coldy! Now go take a nap and get ready for more BJ auction coverage tonight. Don't want you to miss any over bidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmor Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I just read this topic for the first time, and upon seeing the initial post my immediate reaction was there is surely more to the story. So I then went to the end and see how it turns out, and that's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbird91 Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 This whole thread is just a symptom of a bigger problem that's wrong with our society............TOO MANY LAWYERS RUNNING THINGS ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuLu Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Could be....I'm an old, bald guy with a fast car. Wait, that could be a lot of people with Shelbys! If we haven't met, we should. I'm down that way once in a while... Shoot me a PM and let's figure out where/when we've met. bj Write to sergtmac@aol.com, or, call 312.401.1396. I'm here, and looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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