Calling Convertible owners...

[mrfarmdog]

I was thinking that friday myself!!

The light bar is primarly for looks and while they do say it aids in stiffening the body it was not designed with that as a primary purpose. Just a thought here but the light bar makes the car more rigid by bolting into the back side of the door jamb. Perhaps this prevents flex in that area of the car that is normally distributed more uniformly and forces the car to absorb the flex in a more concentrated location (i.e. above the rear fender well?). A roll bar, on the other hand is designed for safety and chassis stiffening so it prevents flex in the body because it is bolted to the frame through the floor. I am just brainstorming possibilities here but it would be a real shame if this was the case. Once again I come back to the argument that they have sold lots of these and I expect it would have been an issue before now.

[SLB8SNK]

Hum... and if it is the light bar, what about the 40th vert from SIA with the same light bars??? Will THEY issue a recall? I mean if you pay to have the mod, and they install the light bar, and all else is stock and the dents surface.... then what??

[Vogon]

Hum... and if it is the light bar, what about the 40th vert from SIA with the same light bars??? Will THEY issue a recall? I mean if you pay to have the mod, and they install the light bar, and all else is stock and the dents surface.... then what??

Good question, especially as they say the 600HP will still be under warranty.

[kstrong]

Got this off the SVT site. Thanks Coldwaterhotrod , your linky worked. :happy feet:

"With a body structure providing considerably more torsional rigidity than the previous-generation Mustang coupe, the chassis of the 2008 GT500 coupe is better able to respond to driver inputs to help control the vehicle in emergency maneuvers.

 

The unibody is 31 percent stiffer in torsion, meaning that a twisting force of 15,500 foot-pounds can deform the body by only one degree. Such dramatic leaps in body stiffness contribute to the GT500’s driving performance, with parallel benefits in accident protection. Engineering a body with such high stiffness creates a passenger "safety cage" that helps protect the cabin from deformation and intrusion."

This is for the coupe. I wonder what the specs are for the Vert?

[srk1959]

I will have to go out and really look mine over as well, I have Evo stage 2 and as I posted previously it hooked up in 2nd gear hard and the passenger door was slamming against the 1/4 panel...it surprised my friend that was riding along he thought his door was open but it wasn't. No more H.P. for my vert thats why I wanted a coupe as well for the big H.P.

 

 

No damage on mine yet, "other than a rock chip that a buick turbo regal that was in front of me at a stop light did acting like a bad azz"

[kstrong]

That would be 3 cars including the one I saw.

 

I would only expect to see it on a car that is set up for 1320' launches w/good weight transfer and DR's or slicks. In otherwords, if you're not going to the track several times a month and getting 1.8 or 1.7 second 60' times, then I don't think you'll see the kind of torque required to do this. But I saw it with my own eyes. The owner was almost proud that her 4.6L was capable of it.

 

Fastbackman was there with me and he saw it. They were the ones that loaned him the DR's so he could break into the 12's that day.

I am not questioning wheter you saw this. I am wondering if this is a problem with excessive H.P.

Not sure why you would mod a Vert so much. Vert's are for cruising!!! If you want to race , buy a coupe. I read originally Verts were designed for Maximum 650 H.P. Shelby Automotives isn't putting anything over 600 H.P. in the Verts.

Just like the coupes, too much H.P. and something will give. Example-10 second runs and they were snapping crankshafts. Not stock.

I have yet to hear of anything but minor problems on stock Verts. :happy feet:

Put the top down and cruise. Light the tires up. If it is stock, no problems. If a light bar is causing the body from absorbing the torque then that should be addressed accordingly.

:happy feet:

[1BADGT500]

I don't think it is a problem with just the verts.... I noticed that my coupe has the same type of deformity on one side.... I noticed it the last time I waxed it (I was kind of freaked out at first) but I think it is just some sort of quirk that happens with these body panels.

 

I know for a fact that it wasen't there the last time I waxed it (the time before this one) and my car is NEVER parked anyplace other than my garage so I know for a fact that it wasn't bumped by anything/anyone etc...

 

IMHO I don't think that this is caused by the body/frame flexing under severe load... I think it's just a design flaw in some of the body panels which raises it's ugly head over time or maybe due weather extremes (black car out in the hot Hawaiian sun in my case).

 

At least I hope it's not due to torque flex!

 

I am currently watching the other side of my car for the same thing to appear and will let you guys know (when and if it does appear).

[SLB8SNK]

I don't think it is a problem with just the verts.... I noticed that my coupe has the same type of deformity on one side.... I noticed it the last time I waxed it (I was kind of freaked out at first) but I think it is just some sort of quirk that happens with these body panels.

 

I know for a fact that it wasen't there the last time I waxed it (the time before this one) and my car is NEVER parked anyplace other than my garage so I know for a fact that it wasn't bumped by anything/anyone etc...

 

IMHO I don't think that this is caused by the body/frame flexing under severe load... I think it's just a design flaw in some of the body panels which raises it's ugly head over time or maybe due weather extremes (black car out in the hot Hawaiian sun in my case).

 

At least I hope it's not due to torque flex!

 

I am currently watching the other side of my car for the same thing to appear and will let you guys know (when and if it does appear).

You many not have a vert, nor a light bar, but it does appear you added some HP? I think this could indeed be a combination of any of those three items. A vert with a light bar, or either car with more than stock HP and torque?

[mobeydick]

Mine DOES NOT have a Light Bar, Yet!!! I ordered one Friday the 28th of September 2007, yesterday!! It does have a slight depression about 6 inches forward of the passenger side rear wheel, about in the center of the top brake of the quarter panel. It cannot be photographed, yet. Mine is White in Color so I don't think weather has anything to do with it. I don’t think the Light bar has anything to do with the “Problem”!!

[relopez98]

My roof has done this from the beginning, I figured it was normal. When I put the top up I just grab it the last couple of inches and guide the pins in the holes.

Alan

 

Ditto, especially on the left side, for me. I have to pull that part of the roof down and in when I latch it. Just figured vert's roofs were quirky.

[SLB8SNK]

Mine DOES NOT have a Light Bar, Yet!!! I ordered one Friday the 28th of September 2007, yesterday!! It does have a slight depression about 6 inches forward of the passenger side rear wheel, about in the center of the top brake of the quarter panel. It cannot be photographed, yet. Mine is White in Color so I don't think weather has anything to do with it. I don’t think the Light bar has anything to do with the “Problem”!!

Yet you still have one of the variables, added HP.

[mobeydick]

Yet you still have one of the variables, added HP.

 

That's the only one!!

[iceman]

Those of you that have these - have you done any suspension mods?

 

I have had the stage 4 set up for months and put on the KB 2 weeks ago. Have made about 6 passes with the KB and about 30 with the stage 4 from evo and no dents. I did a good amount of suspension work too though in that I put in LCA's, UCA, Panhard and brace all with the stage 2. I've now got even more in there but am wondering if that has anything to with why I have no issues like this. I also have no light bar but I would say if it is due to power and torque I'm at the top of that list and have been launching on ET streets pulling 1.6 - 1/8 60' times. I'm wondering if it couldn't be something thatmaybe happened at he factory to some qtr panels and it just was not noticed?

[Pig]

I feel that with this suspension mod subframe connectors (or torque box braces )being welded in is a necessary step to stiffen the chassis enough to prevent the buckling.

With the Vert it is even more crutial and a full subframe connector is necessary IMO.

 

George.......

I was actually thinking of subframe connectors, but I really don't want to weld anything on the Shelby. The body on these cars are pretty solid, MUCH more so than my 96. I can actually feel the suspension working on the Shelby. But even so I might have to look into subframe connectors, and maybe the torque box braces also.

 

Sounds like three or four cars. All have been modded. None of these stock. All seem to have the lightbar. Maybe there is a reason the H.P. is limited to 600 for the KR and SS Verts!

Yeah, but I've only got a stage 1 setup, which basically is what the KR will have right? So even with their 600 hp limit for the KR & SS, its possible they'll still have this issue. And the suspension on those will be much more modified than what I've got. I think, right? Or are they just lowered?

 

Once again I come back to the argument that they have sold lots of these and I expect it would have been an issue before now.

I agree. But it makes me wonder if others have had this problem, and just chocked it up to being a typical parking lot ding. Honestly, I think that the light bar has nothing or very little to do with the dents, since Mobeydick doesn't have one (yet).

 

Got this off the SVT site. Thanks Coldwaterhotrod , your linky worked. :happy feet:

"With a body structure providing considerably more torsional rigidity than the previous-generation Mustang coupe, the chassis of the 2008 GT500 coupe is better able to respond to driver inputs to help control the vehicle in emergency maneuvers.

 

The unibody is 31 percent stiffer in torsion, meaning that a twisting force of 15,500 foot-pounds can deform the body by only one degree. Such dramatic leaps in body stiffness contribute to the GT500’s driving performance, with parallel benefits in accident protection. Engineering a body with such high stiffness creates a passenger "safety cage" that helps protect the cabin from deformation and intrusion."

This is for the coupe. I wonder what the specs are for the Vert?

Good question. But this is for the 08? Have they beefed it up from the 07's, or were they comparing it to the SN95/"New Age" stangs?

 

Man, all this has just got me bummed. Its not like I beat the hell outta my car. Sure, I get on it, but the only time I powershift is when I'm at the track (which has only been twice, total of about 10 runs). And yes its a convertible, which I bought to cruise in...but its also nice to know I can wipe the stupid smirks off all the bozos around here in their BMWs/MBs. I keep it clean/waxed/polished. Just pains me to see my baby injured.

[mrfarmdog]

Those of you that have these - have you done any suspension mods?

 

I have had the stage 4 set up for months and put on the KB 2 weeks ago. Have made about 6 passes with the KB and about 30 with the stage 4 from evo and no dents. I did a good amount of suspension work too though in that I put in LCA's, UCA, Panhard and brace all with the stage 2. I've now got even more in there but am wondering if that has anything to with why I have no issues like this. I also have no light bar but I would say if it is due to power and torque I'm at the top of that list and have been launching on ET streets pulling 1.6 - 1/8 60' times. I'm wondering if it couldn't be something thatmaybe happened at he factory to some qtr panels and it just was not noticed?

I have to say I agree with iceman. I my vert was one of the first to get the KB and I thrash on my car. Don't get me wrong, I take care of it. But I enjoy it. Today I pulled the rear tires and traced the body lines and did not see anything abnormal at all. This is all good conversation but in the end there when I think I find a common thread I find examples that contradict my reasoning. This will not be easy to diagnose. Coupes and verts affected. Mods range from minor to extreme. Anyone look at production dates yet? What else could be the issue besides coming from the factory that way?

 

 

I would be interested to hear from everyone on the 11 second club to see if they have issues.

[LuckySnake]

Improper jacking might be causing the dents? Just don't here about it on coupes as much because they are stronger. Not saying Verts aren't plenty strong.

[Joe G]

Just to add my info...

 

No mods of any kind.

 

No dents of any kind in that area.

 

Vert top needs slight persuasion to line up- not much though.

 

Have had a few hard launches.

 

I'll be keeping an eye on it as I add mods to see if there are any changes...

[Pig]

Those of you that have these - have you done any suspension mods?

 

I have had the stage 4 set up for months and put on the KB 2 weeks ago. Have made about 6 passes with the KB and about 30 with the stage 4 from evo and no dents. I did a good amount of suspension work too though in that I put in LCA's, UCA, Panhard and brace all with the stage 2. I've now got even more in there but am wondering if that has anything to with why I have no issues like this. I also have no light bar but I would say if it is due to power and torque I'm at the top of that list and have been launching on ET streets pulling 1.6 - 1/8 60' times. I'm wondering if it couldn't be something thatmaybe happened at he factory to some qtr panels and it just was not noticed?

I've only done the LCAs. Do you have any subframe connectors or torque box braces? You're definitely up there with the power. I'm also wondering about the factory theory. Is there any way you (or farmdog) can take a look at the inside of quarter panel and compare it with my pics to see if there's any difference in the bracing or bolt placement under there? When you put the top down there's a cloth on the side you can pull back to see under there. Its attached at the black trim and hangs down to protect the top from the bolts/metal under there.

 

Mine was built 11/15/06. Well, actually, the lady that sprint mentioned had an 06 right? Could it just be a random defect? On both sides though? I dunno what the hell to make of it at this point.

 

.....still waiting to find out if any stock cars have this issue... . . .... .

[TexasShelby]

'07, Completely stock, 7000 miles, vert., street driven moderately

 

No damage.

 

I skimmed through some of this, but wanted to ask...is this a "vert only" issue.

 

If so and not that anyone actually would, but has anyone tried putting their top up a windy condition? I know you can't actually do it while driving ( I haven't, but thought I read something about it in the manual when I got the car), but I might think if certain wind conditions existed whether moving or static, that might could be a cause.

 

Just a thought.

[ati]

I've only done the LCAs. Do you have any subframe connectors or torque box braces? You're definitely up there with the power. I'm also wondering about the factory theory. Is there any way you (or farmdog) can take a look at the inside of quarter panel and compare it with my pics to see if there's any difference in the bracing or bolt placement under there? When you put the top down there's a cloth on the side you can pull back to see under there. Its attached at the black trim and hangs down to protect the top from the bolts/metal under there.

 

Mine was built 11/15/06. Well, actually, the lady that sprint mentioned had an 06 right? Could it just be a random defect? On both sides though? I dunno what the hell to make of it at this point.

 

.....still waiting to find out if any stock cars have this issue... . . .... .

Pig,

Mine was built 11/15/07 also. I have the Steeda LCA's, the CDC light bar and as of yet no dents or creases. I don't beat my car but I do drive it kinda hard sometimes. I'm am truly concerned about this body crease thing. Until we figure out whats causing this, No more power launches and I'm going to drive in a way as not to put any stress on the body.

Alan

[FormerGmc]

and location...

 

 

I have a coupe and have the exact thing on the drivers side in the exact same place. I noticed it about a week after I got the car and thought it was hit somehow although it has never been parked anywhere that I thought it would happen. It is hard to see but it is there.

 

I'm thinking it came from the factory that way.

[HotLap]

Hey Pig, I didn't take time to read through all the responses (4+ pages) so sorry if this has already been mentioned, but while applying Dynamat Extreme in my '07 GT/CS and GT500 I noticed the vert top well bracket assembly attaches to the body panel in the area you are seeing the distortion in. Could torque be twising the body enough to stress the area where the top well assembly and rear qtr panel connect?

 

Now, having said that, I would need to remove the trunk liner and rear seat back to get back into that area to be sure it does indeed attach at that spot...which I don't plan on doing right away...but you may want to check it out.

 

Good luck and keep us advised if it gets worse....

[HotLap]

I just went out and checked mine. Since black has a strong reflection I looked at the reflection across that area and saw nothing abnormal in the way of waves or dings on either side. I also used a shop light and looked carefully across both sides and found nothing.

 

Something I did notice the other day is that when I put my top up the pins at the top of the windshield do not exactly fall into the holes. I don't remember if they did originally or not. They are not far off and I don't have to force them in but they are off a little. Not sure if that could be a sign of structural deformaty or not. Can anyone else chime in on this? New or old vert owners (relatively speaking)?

 

 

MrFarmDog - same here and I think it's normal. MY 2000 GT vert was the same way. If both pins were off - say 1/2" or greater in the same direction, then I'd be looking for an issue - but I've always had one side a bit "stickier" to close than the other....

[kstrong]

Another thought. They had to change/reinforce the brackets for the Shaker 1000 because the Subs were snapping brackets from the torque. Any thoughts?

[mrfarmdog]

Another thought. They had to change/reinforce the brackets for the Shaker 1000 because the Subs were snapping brackets from the torque. Any thoughts?

I did not think they were snapping brackets from the torque, instead I thought the brackets were deemed not sufficient to hold the box in event of a crash. You may be kidding though based on your note.

[mrfarmdog]

I just got finished doing a deep clean in the rear wheel wells. I jack up the car, put the rear axle on stands, pulled the wheels and proceeded to get rid of all the dirt and rubber from burnout boxes and a few road trips. I inspected everything I could inside the fender wells, under the car where the reforcing bracket is location and exterior of the car. I saw nothing that looked abnormal or that I could associate with big time torque loading. My new BMR poly bushings seemed to be holding up as well.

 

I also opened the top and pulled back the protecting cloth to see what the body seems look like inside the rear quarter. There is a piece of metal that appears to be a double wall that comes from the back and ends about the same location most of these dents seem to be located.

 

After my inspection and participating in this thread over the past few days I think the best cause is it is coming from the factory that way. Just my personal opinion at this point, which is subject to change after the next post.

[mobeydick]

I put my top down and the indention is right where the bolts that are pointed out in an earlier post. This could be coming from the factory!

 

BTW: I’ve never had a problem with the top lining up. I live in South GA and we have no hills of any kind, so it always level.

[Rarecat]

My month old 2008 with 300 gentle miles shows no signs of indentions....

[Pig]

I skimmed through some of this, but wanted to ask...is this a "vert only" issue.

If so and not that anyone actually would, but has anyone tried putting their top up a windy condition? I know you can't actually do it while driving ( I haven't, but thought I read something about it in the manual when I got the car), but I might think if certain wind conditions existed whether moving or static, that might could be a cause.

Just a thought.

Hey Pig, I didn't take time to read through all the responses (4+ pages) so sorry if this has already been mentioned, but while applying Dynamat Extreme in my '07 GT/CS and GT500 I noticed the vert top well bracket assembly attaches to the body panel in the area you are seeing the distortion in. Could torque be twising the body enough to stress the area where the top well assembly and rear qtr panel connect?

Now, having said that, I would need to remove the trunk liner and rear seat back to get back into that area to be sure it does indeed attach at that spot...which I don't plan on doing right away...but you may want to check it out.

Good luck and keep us advised if it gets worse....

You both raise a good question. Although we do have reports of coupes with the problem also. However, I could see the top well flexing the qtr panels where they attach (which seems to be the common location on the verts). Either from torque, or wind blowing the top side to side when raising/lowering. But that doesn't explain the coupes, or the KB powered verts that aren't showing it. Actually have yet to hear of a KB vert with the problem, i think? Well wait a sec, does the rear shelf in a coupe attach at the same place? Anyone with a coupe that could take a look back there and see how its "put together"? I tried looking through some tech docs but couldn't find an exploded view of that particular area.

 

I also opened the top and pulled back the protecting cloth to see what the body seems look like inside the rear quarter. There is a piece of metal that appears to be a double wall that comes from the back and ends about the same location most of these dents seem to be located.

After my inspection and participating in this thread over the past few days I think the best cause is it is coming from the factory that way. Just my personal opinion at this point, which is subject to change after the next post.

I'm pretty sure this is where the top well bolts to the side of the body (and then spot welded along the trunk). My dents are about an inch or two rearward of the forward edge of that double-wall metal brace. If that makes any sense. Its "almost" in the same spot as the top bolt, just a little forward of it.

 

At this point, I think this is a hit-or-miss problem, possibly coming from the factory. So far, mine is not that bad. Its really hard to see when you're up close, but if you get back a distance and look at reflections you can clearly tell its there (well my passenger side anyways). I was lucky to get the pics I did...got way back and zoomed in with the big lens. I may just call the service department tomorrow to see if they've encountered this problem. Don? You out there? Any way you could run this by a couple of your guys?

[kmggt]

1300 kms

black vert

no mods

not sure of build date but ordered nov 06 and delivered late apr 07

no damage

 

 

 

Kelly