EmpireStateGT500 Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I have been fascinated since the announcement for the newest version of the Super Snake by all of the discussions of the heritage of the breed. There is very little information about it, surprisingly. I have added a link to an obscure review from a book that I found on a Google book search. Does anyone have any other links or information about the original 1967 Super Snake that they can share. Check this one out. Scroll down. It's in the section titled Mystery Motors http://books.google.com/books?id=12Unsmylj...NxZJ3MU#PPP1,M1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 I have been fascinated since the announcement for the newest version of the Super Snake by all of the discussions of the heritage of the breed. There is very little information about it, surprisingly. I have added a link to an obscure review from a book that I found on a Google book search. Does anyone have any other links or information about the original 1967 Super Snake that they can share. Check this one out. Scroll down. It's in the section titled Mystery Motors http://books.google.com/books?id=12Unsmylj...NxZJ3MU#PPP1,M1 Very interesting. I did not know there was only the one '67 GT500 SS built. I had always heard there wasn't a lot, but certainly more than one just one. I thought the reference to one Super Snake had to do with the one reamining Twin-supercharged 427 Cobra that just sold at Barrett Jackson for $5.5m. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Although there was only one "Official" Super Snake, you'll notice on the page 97 of the book review that they are not sure how many 427 FE '67 GT500's there were. Reviewing the invoice documents there are records for 3 but there may have been others that were modified by dealerships with the 427 that replaced the standard 428 Cobra Jet engine. The 427 FE is the motor that Shelby American had developed that was in the twin-supercharged 427 Cobra that just sold at Barrett Jackson for $5.5m. That was however, not a Mustang chassis. It was an AC chassis. See link for pics: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/carlist/car..._LotNumber=1301 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Although there was only one "Official" Super Snake, you'll notice on the page 97 of the book review that they are not sure how many 427 FE '67 GT500's there were. Reviewing the invoice documents there are records for 3 but there may have been others that were modified by dealerships with the 427 that replaced the standard 428 Cobra Jet engine. The 427 FE is the motor that Shelby American had developed that was in the twin-supercharged 427 Cobra that just sold at Barrett Jackson for $5.5m. That was however, not a Mustang chassis. It was an AC chassis. See link for pics: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/carlist/car..._LotNumber=1301 I got all that. I guess I wasn't clear - re-read it - I call one the GT500, the other the Cobra. Don't go purist on me.... When anyone referred to one Super Snake Mustang - I thought they really meant the Cobra - not the GT500. They could have been talking about this GT500. I thought there were more - not knowing they were dealer mods. I now know they're not the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Although there was only one "Official" Super Snake, you'll notice on the page 97 of the book review that they are not sure how many 427 FE '67 GT500's there were. Reviewing the invoice documents there are records for 3 but there may have been others that were modified by dealerships with the 427 that replaced the standard 428 Cobra Jet engine. The 427 FE is the motor that Shelby American had developed that was in the twin-supercharged 427 Cobra that just sold at Barrett Jackson for $5.5m. That was however, not a Mustang chassis. It was an AC chassis. See link for pics: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/carlist/car..._LotNumber=1301 Not a Cobra Jet in the 67 GT500. That motor was a 428 Police interceptor with aluminum intake and 2 x 4 carbs. 428CJ was introduced by Ford on April 1, 1968. Sorry to be a stickler but to those of us with CJ's there is a difference and I don't like to see misinformation passed on as correct. On another note, yes only one Super Snake built for tire testing and Carrol Shelby did the driving. 427 Fe is a whole different deal than a 428. Large bore short stroke screamer. Kinda like the difference between a sohc 4.6 and a dohc 4.6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT500FLYBOY Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Not a Cobra Jet in the 67 GT500. That motor was a 428 Police interceptor with aluminum intake and 2 x 4 carbs. 428CJ was introduced by Ford on April 1, 1968. Sorry to be a stickler but to those of us with CJ's there is a difference and I don't like to see misinformation passed on as correct. On another note, yes only one Super Snake built for tire testing and Carrol Shelby did the driving. 427 Fe is a whole different deal than a 428. Large bore short stroke screamer. Kinda like the difference between a sohc 4.6 and a dohc 4.6. Ah - another purist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 If by being "acurate" I am labeled a purist, I'm fine with that. I have been around Mustang and Shelby's for more than 30 years. Glad to see the new cars are bringing fans into the Shelby tent. Many of us never thought we would have the chance to buy a new Ford with the Shelby name on it in our lifetimes. This is the type of thing that makes a car brand legendary. Many people have no idea what a Lightning is either. I am more than happy to show them when the light turns green......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 fastfords-You are absolutley correct and I never mind being corrected for the sake of accuracy. No punches pulled here if we're going to be an authoritative source as a forum on these topics regarding an automotive icon like the GT500. I think that there is a difference between interpreting the facts and determining the facts themselves. Great catch! By the way those were 600 CFM Holly's (for the purists). I don't believe that the vehicle was built for tire testing. Shelby did not offer a 427 for 1967. According to the literature the Super Snake was the brain child of Don McCain. Don had worked for Shelby American as a West Coast Sales Representative. However, the Super Snake was conceived by Don while he was responsible for the performance car sales for Mel Burns Ford Dealership in Long Beach California. While at Shelby American he developed the program that produced 13 race ready GT350 drag cars. The story goes that he couldn't resist developing another special line of Shelby's while at Mel Burns. There were alterations to the GT500 that they selected with serial number 544 as the first of what was supposed to be a run of 50 units. The tire tests were only meant to prove the worth of the tire selection as an alteration to the production GT500 of Goodyear Thunderbolt tires. There is a story that the tire testing was actually completed by Shelby American Chief Engineer, Fred Goodall after Carroll had to leave for Washington. It is not clear to me who hit the 170 mile per hour best lap speed; Carroll or Fred. Now go drive your Shelbys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Great info. I believe there is a movie (before video ya know) of the testing that shows Carroll driving. I have never seen it myself so that may or may not be correct. Since I can no longer afford a real 67 GT500 I am building a replica/clone whatever. I am using a Holman-Moody 427 sideoiler with a real C7ZX intake (new Holley 710cfm carbs though) and a real Rug-s 67 GT500 toploader 4 speed. When the car is done it is my hope that the only way to tell it from a real one will be the serial number. I never intend to deceive anyone by stating it is real. No one would want to actually drive a real one anyway. My brother had a 67 GT500 4 speed car when I was 10 or so. Still remember that car. I guess that is where it all started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I got all that. I guess I wasn't clear - re-read it - I call one the GT500, the other the Cobra. Don't go purist on me.... When anyone referred to one Super Snake Mustang - I thought they really meant the Cobra - not the GT500. They could have been talking about this GT500. I thought there were more - not knowing they were dealer mods. I now know they're not the real deal. How do you think anyone that bought or is thinking about buying the Unique Performance 1967 GT500E feels about the authenticity of their ride? Is it a Super Snake or not? It is by the way an aluminum 427 engine and knowing what we know about the origins of the Super Snake, could that be as authentic as the original 1967 VIN #67402F4A00544 or for that matter the newest version? Now go drive your Shelby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ZVHT88S Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 fastfords-You are absolutley correct and I never mind being corrected for the sake of accuracy. No punches pulled here if we're going to be an authoritative source as a forum on these topics regarding an automotive icon like the GT500. I think that there is a difference between interpreting the facts and determining the facts themselves. Great catch! By the way those were 600 CFM Holly's (for the purists). I don't believe that the vehicle was built for tire testing. Shelby did not offer a 427 for 1967. According to the literature the Super Snake was the brain child of Don McCain. Don had worked for Shelby American as a West Coast Sales Representative. However, the Super Snake was conceived by Don while he was responsible for the performance car sales for Mel Burns Ford Dealership in Long Beach California. While at Shelby American he developed the program that produced 13 race ready GT350 drag cars. The story goes that he couldn't resist developing another special line of Shelby's while at Mel Burns. There were alterations to the GT500 that they selected with serial number 544 as the first of what was supposed to be a run of 50 units. The tire tests were only meant to prove the worth of the tire selection as an alteration to the production GT500 of Goodyear Thunderbolt tires. There is a story that the tire testing was actually completed by Shelby American Chief Engineer, Fred Goodall after Carroll had to leave for Washington. It is not clear to me who hit the 170 mile per hour best lap speed; Carroll or Fred. Now go drive your Shelbys! In the late 70's, I purchased a 69 Mach-1 with a transplanted 427 medium rise side oiler with factory dual quads and a 10 spline input toploader. The guy I purchased it from had papers that showed the motor had come from a Shelby. The carbs were 660 cfm "Center Squirters". Thats what they called them back then anyway. Bought that car for $1800 bucks. Wish I had it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Great info. I believe there is a movie (before video ya know) of the testing that shows Carroll driving. I have never seen it myself so that may or may not be correct. Since I can no longer afford a real 67 GT500 I am building a replica/clone whatever. I am using a Holman-Moody 427 sideoiler with a real C7ZX intake (new Holley 710cfm carbs though) and a real Rug-s 67 GT500 toploader 4 speed. When the car is done it is my hope that the only way to tell it from a real one will be the serial number. I never intend to deceive anyone by stating it is real. No one would want to actually drive a real one anyway. My brother had a 67 GT500 4 speed car when I was 10 or so. Still remember that car. I guess that is where it all started. That is unbelievable. I have always had the highest respect for enthusiasts that had the nerve and will to build something for themselves. You have my greatest respect and I wish you the best of luck. Please keep me (us) update on the progress of your build. By the way, where did you find you chassis and how are you updating it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribeca North Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Great info. I believe there is a movie (before video ya know) of the testing that shows Carroll driving. I have never seen it myself so that may or may not be correct. you're absolutely right, it was a Goodyear tire promo... poor quality, stand back from the screen... the audio alone is worth it- classic 60's newsreel-type advert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted July 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 In the late 70's, I purchased a 69 Mach-1 with a transplanted 427 medium rise side oiler with factory dual quads and a 10 spline input toploader. The guy I purchased it from had papers that showed the motor had come from a Shelby. The carbs were 660 cfm "Center Squirters". Thats what they called them back then anyway. Bought that car for $1800 bucks. Wish I had it back. Now that's interesting because I have seen conflicting information that the Holly carburators were 650 CFM instead of the more commonly accepted 600 CFM carburators. Now go drive your Shelby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006GT500 Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 I know a company that had the opportunity to buy the Super Snake a few years back. The owner passed away and the company that I know got in contact with the kids of the guy and they wanted to put it on ebay so my friends backed away from the purchase. He regrets it every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted July 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 I know a company that had the opportunity to buy the Super Snake a few years back. The owner passed away and the company that I know got in contact with the kids of the guy and they wanted to put it on ebay so my friends backed away from the purchase. He regrets it every day. Something like this? http://customfastbackca.com/snakeebay.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 That is unbelievable. I have always had the highest respect for enthusiasts that had the nerve and will to build something for themselves. You have my greatest respect and I wish you the best of luck. Please keep me (us) update on the progress of your build. By the way, where did you find you chassis and how are you updating it? I was able to purchase an original rust free Arizona car with 37,000 miles from as it turns out a friend of a friend who was the president of the Phoenix area Shelby club in the seventies when my brother was a member. Funny because when my brother and I went to see the car he was like, I know this guy......I do not plan to modify the chassis or body at all. The temptation is there along the lines of the Elenor. By the way, I just don't buy into the Elenor thing. Not an original Shelby and should not be considered one. I intend to make the car as correct as my wallet allows. I got a beautiful set of seat belts with inertia reels from an ebay seller. Most expensive part will be the steering wheel. Do you have any idea how much they go for??? I have seen them from $1500- 7000 for an nos one with a typical one going for around $3000. I also intend to use Magstars as my brothers car had them and they are the best looking whell IMO. I also went with the center lights in the grille because they look the best. My brothers car had the wide lights. Car will be white w/blue stipes, same as my 08'. Again, not a car I intend to ever sell unless someone who is more stupid than I am (pretty much no way that happens) offers me a enough to make it possible to buy a 06' Ford GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Something like this?http://customfastbackca.com/snakeebay.htm I have heard that the current value of that car is somewhere near $2m. I guess it is worth what someone will pay but as far as Shelby's go it is the ultimate rare car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006GT500 Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Yes exactly like that. If I remember correctly my friend told me that it last sold for $3m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67SuperSnake Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 I have just about finished my 1967 Shelby Super Snake GT500E Eleanor. Shelby 427FE all aluminum engine built by Keith Craft. Shelby GT500E steering wheel. Shelby GT500E center console. Shelby GT500E floor mats. No expense spared. An absolute trip to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67SuperSnake Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 I have heard that the current value of that car is somewhere near $2m. I guess it is worth what someone will pay but as far as Shelby's go it is the ultimate rare car. A guy named Charlie owns that car. I heard he turned down $3M. He bought it for far less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 As I will be running a real 427 sideoiler in my car I have considered painting the stripes like the Super Snake. Narrow-wide-narrow. Might be pretty cool and make it a bit different than all the other clones. 67 Supersnake, how does that new FE run? Pretty good with forced induction I would guess? A friend of mine is trying to talk me into his aftermarket aluminum 427 block for my car. I am thinking I will stick with the 66 vintage I have. Tempting though. I think his motor is a stroker to the tune of about 470 inches. I think he still has some aluminum Edelbrock heads as well. Hmmmm. All aluminum 470 inch FE with 2 4bbls. Sounds like fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67SuperSnake Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 As I will be running a real 427 sideoiler in my car I have considered painting the stripes like the Super Snake. Narrow-wide-narrow. Might be pretty cool and make it a bit different than all the other clones. 67 Supersnake, how does that new FE run? Pretty good with forced induction I would guess? A friend of mine is trying to talk me into his aftermarket aluminum 427 block for my car. I am thinking I will stick with the 66 vintage I have. Tempting though. I think his motor is a stroker to the tune of about 470 inches. I think he still has some aluminum Edelbrock heads as well. Hmmmm. All aluminum 470 inch FE with 2 4bbls. Sounds like fun. I would definitely put the Super snake stripes on it. That signifies it as a 427FE, and of course separate you from the masses. There are 2 configurations. The original 67 Super Snake has dimensions of 3",2",10,2",3". The Unique Performance cars have a dimension of 3",1",11",1",3". I have slightly narrower than 1" gaps: I wished I could tell you more about the HP, as I just put it on the road. Still working the bugs out. Only got 100 miles on it, but I have never had anything so fast. That picture of Nicolas Cage hitting the Go Baby Go button is not an accurate representation, but a 427FE engine with a S/C will impress you. BTW, my 427FE is 482cu in. On the engine dyno, it ran a 815hp 733 tq. Chassis dyno did 575/575, but I think it will do more as the tune was still very rich (EFI). On a dry clean road in second gear, allowing it to get in the mid to upper end of the gear and not stabbing the accelerator, it broke the loose the 315/35/17's. I've been trying to take it easy. But something this much fun is hard to hold back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdwaterHotrod Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Thank you for the photos & info on the stripe widths. Keep us posted on your car, it looks so sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 I would definitely put the Super snake stripes on it. That signifies it as a 427FE, and of course separate you from the masses. There are 2 configurations. The original 67 Super Snake has dimensions of 3",2",10,2",3". The Unique Performance cars have a dimension of 3",1",11",1",3". I have slightly narrower than 1" gaps: I wished I could tell you more about the HP, as I just put it on the road. Still working the bugs out. Only got 100 miles on it, but I have never had anything so fast. That picture of Nicolas Cage hitting the Go Baby Go button is not an accurate representation, but a 427FE engine with a S/C will impress you. Thanks for the information on the stripes. I am still thinking about that and I have plenty of time to decide. Your car looks good with the 315's in back. It is my understanding that the suspension on the Elenor's really helps plant the back tires. With the tq your motor is capable of I don't think you could get enough tire under it anyway. I am thinking of having the Magstars made in at least 8" width for the back to allow a larger tire. Maybe 9" would be better. Also thinking about rolling the rear fender lips as well. Subtle mods that will most likely not be noticed by the casual looker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67SuperSnake Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Your car looks good with the 315's in back. It is my understanding that the suspension on the Elenor's really helps plant the back tires. With the tq your motor is capable of I don't think you could get enough tire under it anyway. I am thinking of having the Magstars made in at least 8" width for the back to allow a larger tire. Maybe 9" would be better. Also thinking about rolling the rear fender lips as well. Subtle mods that will most likely not be noticed by the casual looker. Here is a location for information about what tires and rims work. You can go 9" in the rear with the correct backspacing without having to do any major modifications. To go any larger (like the 11" I have) you have to to a mini tub. A lot of work for little gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfords Posted July 18, 2007 Report Share Posted July 18, 2007 Here is a question out of left field. The Tire Rack sells a very nice manual machine to roll fender lips. I was wondering if anyone out there had one that I could rent instead of spending the $300 to purchase one? This would also be a great way to offset the cost of purchase if someone has already done so. I may consider buying one and renting it myself If I could find some people interested.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 The news from the orignal Super Snake was the 427FE engine. There were some minor suspension modifications. Most notable was the installation of small traction bars on the rear axle but the major front end geometry modifications that had been done by Shelby American to the earlier small block GT's had been engineered into the production 1967 Mustang. Believe it or not, not all of the car magazines were cheerleaders for the GT500 when it was introduced. According to the literature of the time, some magazine reviews reported that the GT500 had rather disappointing 0-60 and quarter mile times that were only slighly better than the 390 cu in production Mustang. If your'e interested there is a terrific compilation of all of the automotive press reviews called, Shelby Mustang 1965-1970 Ultimate Portfolio by R M Clark published by Brookland Books. You can get it at Amazon. Part of the autmotive press dissatisfaction was that the GT500 came along after the 1965 GT350, maybe the closest thing to a race car that ever hit the street and the equally radical 1966 GT350. By 1967 the Mustang was bigger and heavier and compared to the 1965 and 1966 GT350 the GT500 was quieter, had more luxury features, and was closer to a grand touring car than a (motor)sport car. The Super Snake on the other hand was closer to a true race car than the stock GT500. The 427FE engine was the engine that was developed by Shelby and Ford specifically for racing and was scheduled for the Mark IV GT's that were to compete that year at LeMans. That may have been the car that the magazine wonks were expecting the stock GT500 to be. And it might have worked out for the '67 Super Snake except for one thing. Cost was a sticking point with prospective buyers of the original too. The 75 1967 Super Snakes were to be sold with a price tag of $7,500 each. Given the MSRP of the "stock" 1967 GT500 of $4,395 the upgrade was a 70% premium. The MSRP of a 2007 GT500 coupe is about $43,000. Todays Super Snake represents a 65% premium over the list price and if the ADM is figured in the Super Snake premium is even less today compared to the original. So when you start worrying about the cost of the 2007 Super Snake conversion, just remember the original. Now go drive your Shelby! Edited to correct references to GT350 model years-ESGT500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpireStateGT500 Posted August 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 67SuperSnake: Aymore updates on your progress or videos/pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67SuperSnake Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 67SuperSnake:Anymore updates on your progress or videos/pictures? Just got a Nikon D40X camera. No more fuzzy photos. And I made the piece from the radiator to the grill Got her up to a buck 20 (for you guys that don't like street racing, that is a 120 miles per gallon). Surprisingly smooth. Quickly came upon other MGP enthusiasts. Had to hit the brakes. Here is some of the newer photos out of the garage: I am entering her in the MOCA (Mustang Owners Club of Austin) Mustang & Ford Show Aug 4th in Austin, TX 10am-2pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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