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Super Snake Drive Shaft


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Some time ago Amy mentioned that there may be more to the Super Snake upgrade package than had been leaked before the official notice appeared on the Shelby Automobiles website. I think what is glaring by omission is an upgraded one piece drive shaft. With a new short throw shifter, 3.73 rear end housing going in, and all that horsepower why not a new one piece drive shaft?

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A very good question. What about the driveshaft.

 

I would still like to see a Bill of Material (BOM) for the upgrade parts detailing the part numbers, or at least specific descriptions rather than general descriptions, etc., so there is no confusion as to exactly what we are getting as part of the Super Snake upgrade package.

 

The basic descriptions provided in the press release leaves some of us still wondering exactly what we get. I.E. BRAKES - do they remain 14" or increase to 15" up front? Are the rear brakes any bigger? Are the rotors 1 piece , 2 piece, fixed or floating? Are the calipers forged or monoblock? We'll assume the front pads are upgraded with the calipers. Are the rear pads being upgraded?

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I would still like to see a Bill of Material (BOM) for the upgrade parts detailing the part numbers, or at least specific descriptions rather than general descriptions, etc., so there is no confusion as to exactly what we are getting as part of the Super Snake upgrade package.

 

The basic descriptions provided in the press release leaves some of us still wondering exactly what we get. I.E. BRAKES - do they remain 14" or increase to 15" up front? Are the rear brakes any bigger? Are the rotors 1 piece , 2 piece, fixed or floating? Are the calipers forged or monoblock? We'll assume the front pads are upgraded with the calipers. Are the rear pads being upgraded?

All good questions . I'm sure once everything is finalized the facts will be presented to us so we can make our decisions.

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All good questions . I'm sure once everything is finalized the facts will be presented to us so we can make our decisions.

 

Last time i checked most organizations finalize their details before they price their product and release it to the public. Am I missing something? Or are we at risk of loosing features as the internal costs escalate?

 

Again a BOM would be nice, so we can see exactly how things are supposed to be or change.

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Last time i checked most organizations finalize their details before they price their product and release it to the public. Am I missing something? Or are we at risk of loosing features as the internal costs escalate?

 

Again a BOM would be nice, so we can see exactly how things are supposed to be or change.

I agree....post #3

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I agree....post #3

 

Big G, you have the one-piece CF driveshaft. In addition to weight savings, wasn't there additional, quantifiable driveline gains as measured on a dyno? I seem to remember you mentioning that to me when you showed me around your '500 back in April...

I do not mean to turn this into a tech discussion, but I know this has some merit relative to this discussion.

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IMO here's the deal on why you WILL NOT see a BOM.

 

1st off, they have only one prototype car & it's heading to Tulsa show. Any & all parts on that car are first piece submission parts from all the vendors that plan on supplying SAI with parts to build this Super car. With that being said, I'm sure that most pieces didn't fit exactly correct when bolted on the first time & will need to go back to the vendors for more tweaking or redesign before being massed produced to SAI standards.

 

Second, the Prototype car probably hasn't been tested yet for reliability or proper handling & performance. I'm sure this car was rushed thru SAI just so it could be shown at Tulsa show & once it gets back they will then put the car thru its paces, give it plenty of testing on the track, and Dyno it. They will then change some settings on the suspension, CPU, motor or change part manufactures all together until they have exactly what they want before creating a final BOM. By the way, all the prototypes that you read about in magazine are never exactly what are in print, so don't try holding SAI to a different standard then the rest of the automotive parts manufacturing world.

 

Third, I'm sure SAI put out the KR & Super Snake news to help slow down the loss of market share to the aftermarket vendors. So what if they prematurely released info, but had they not & you went in another direction for modifications & then heard about this car after it was finalized, you would be pissed. The list of goodies they have told us about is either enough to make you want to wait it out or not and for someone to continually whine, cry & publicly criticize SAI for not releasing a finalized BOM before the final product has gone thru all it paces & testing is just plain old selfishness BS.

 

Last but not least, your down payment is to hold your spot inline & before they sign off on the final product, you won't see a BOM, so get over it; it's not going to happen. Because if they do publish one right now, someone like Phd Gofast will go ballistic by ranting & raving about how SAI changed this & that, and that's why I placed my down payment because of what the BOM said it was going to be. The bottom line is either you want the dam SUPER SNAKE or YOU DON'T. If you don't trust SAI to do the right things for performance & reliability, then you don't deserve to have one in the first place. Now quit your :censored: bitching about needing a BOM.

 

+100 :rockon:

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Lets stay on topic if for no other reason than to signal to Amy and the rest of the decision makers that they may have overlooked a very important part of the package. Coldy; I really liked the analysis you did on the brakes. It was second to none. We have already seen that Shelby is paying attention to the forum so lets not get side tracked. Is there a benefit for an upgraded drive shaft. I think there is and I haven't heard anyone talking about it.

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Here's a tie in that I think has value from another thread:

 

QUOTE(jimbobbeg @ Jun 13 2007, 11:35 AM)

I don't know much about road racing. But I believe the 20" wheels on the SS will provide a number of improvements.

 

As to lap time, I would think the 20s would be better because of a "shorter" tire's sidewall would have less flex and would not roll over like the 18s.

 

Gearing would only be affected by a difference in tire diameter. Wheel size would have no effect.

 

The real advantage to the 20" Alcoa wheels will be their lower weight. By reducing the rotational mass of the driveline, more HP will reach the ground. I will also consider changing the driveshaft to carbon fiber to save additional weight. Another benefit of lighter wheels is a reduction in unstrung weight. This will provide handling benefits.

 

 

Exactly! And, your point about the drive shaft is a good one as well. I know another member who switched to the one piece shaft (which is straight, of course) and it actually increased driveline efficiency (via the dyno). So there are 2 gains to be made there. All of these incremental improvements to the GT500 should make this one hell of a killin' machine for sure.

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Yeah. No sweat Coldy. I have a lot of respect for you. I want to stay focused on this because I think it's important.

This is a horsepower issue and if it can be made a part of the basic package there is the possibility of an incremental increase in horsepower. Every little bit helps when the Corvette SS or Viper pulls up next to you at the drag strip or at the stoplight!

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Yeah. No sweat Coldy. I have a lot of respect for you. I want to stay focused on this because I think it's important.

This is a horsepower issue and if it can be made a part of the basic package there is the possibility of an incremental increase in horsepower. Every little bit helps when the Corvette SS or Viper pulls up next to you at the drag strip or at the stoplight!

 

I agree 100% :yup:

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So the question is "Does the carbon fiber drive shaft represent an important and cost conscious upgrade to be included in the Super Snake upgrade?" Please submit an opinion.

 

The one piece CF driveshaft will save a little better than 20 lbs over the stock two piece unit resulting in more HP to the ground. One manufacturer (BMR) claims an additional 15HP. A CF driveshaft is also stonger, rated at up to 1000HP. I don't know what the stock DS rating is. They cost about $1000 and are easy to install.

 

On the downside is the potential safety issue in the event of hit to the rear end of the car. I believe it was stated elsewhere in the forum that a CF driveshaft would shatter before it could intrude into the passenger compartment. There is also potential clearance issues, especially with a lowered car. There is forum member that reported wear marks (with photos) on an installed aluminum DS. I don't believe a CF driveshaft would have survived similar rubbing.

 

As for my opinion, I will add the CF driveshaft as long as I'm satisfied that there are no clearence problems. As Coldy stated, there may be limited benefit when considering the aluminum DS as well. It's about half the cost and still saves about the same weight. My concern with the one piece aluminum would be the rear end collision. I think SAI could have a problem with that too.

 

I don't think a CF driveshaft is part of the SS package. Everybody's complaining about the high cost of the SS package and here we are trying to add another $1000 piece. Where does it end? How about some of those Dymax CF wheels at $2500 each? The trick that SAI has to pull off is to get as much into the package as they can for the pricing point. And I believe their doing a very good job of it!

 

I'm sure we'll be getting a detailed listing of everything on SS package before too long anyway.

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I agree. I put all my trust in Carroll and all of SAI staff, as His (SAI) credentials speak for themselves. I'm sure Carroll knows what driveshaft and as well as all components on the shelby's that leave his establishment are right on the mark with durability,"while still falling in the right priced pkg." And if any mods are above and beyond that, then I would assume that those folks would be going to do self mods. Heck ,anyone can mod up too and beyond 100k, just on mods, but what's the point?! Some folks are complaining already about the ss price. I personally luv the SS pkg just the way it is, and after seeing the car,...WOW, OMG...SOLD,...is all I can say for me!!! I am not going to touch it with extra mods beyond the SS pkg, unless, further down the road Carroll (SAI) desides to offer more options above and beyond, by his experienced expertise and staff, then I will consider it at that time. :shades:

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  • 1 month later...

From the K-B site:

 

"CAUTION: These kits were designed to produce maximum power and performance. BE CAREFUL. Traction is a problem. The driveshaft needs to be upgraded and a safety plate installed at higher power levels."

 

Although they don't specify at which power level, it is probably safe to assume anything over stock. Then you can avoid the embarrassment of being the first on your block to have the open floor plan GT500.. :happy feet:

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So the question is "Does the carbon fiber drive shaft represent an important and cost conscious upgrade to be included in the Super Snake upgrade?" Please submit an opinion.

 

 

Sorry, I posted the link for the broken shaft incorrectly, it is now fixed and posted as an embedded image... thanks Under10.

 

Here's a link to some info on CF driveshafts. Be warned, it is a manufacturer's site so what they write may serve their own agenda which I can only assume is to sell more driveshafts. But what they write makes sense.

http://www.acpt.com/driveshaft/driveshafts.html

 

I also read the results of a test performed by a poster on another message board (which I can't find anymore). He installed a CF shaft on a heavily modded 99 GT. After installing the shaft he said vibration, cockpit noise and throttle response were greatly improved (three of the biggest problems that I had with my 99 Cobra). He did not claim any significant HP gain but did see performance increases that were not as easily measurable, i.e. better traction because of reduced vibration and a quicker increase in RPMs under acceleration dues to the reduced rotational mass. As far as safety is concerned, CF is definitely stronger than steel or aluminum and is not any more likely to pierce the floorboard on failure than a metal shaft but it is definitely less likely to break. CF is used heavily in load bearing applications in aviation because it is light, strong and safe (I worked on F-18s for 10 years, they use quite a bit of CF and newer aircraft use even more)).

 

Here's a pic of a failed CF driveshaft.

DSC00503.jpg

 

Rubbing is a different issue, I'm not sure how that would effect the integrity of the shaft, but how likely is it to rub? This I wouldn't know I can't go crawl under one to look since I don't have my GT500 yet... but there is one out there somewhere with my name on it :happy feet:

 

I just got my wife to agree to let me buy one and get the SS package (fingers crossed). I had to sell my Cobra when she went to Grad school and now it's payback time :headspin: Will be looking for a Torch Red vert this fall/winter.

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