Sick an tired of dealer BS

[Joe G]

So why not post the dealers you say you could have gotten a few others at MSRP so someone else here can get one?

 

What dealers were they? City & State?

I already tried, Dude.

 

He said he deleted all the emails a few days prior to posting.

[SLB8SNK]

I think the MSRP thing has been beat to death already. ANy deals are far and few between and most guys who got these (including me) did so after months or years of waiting and making calls. To call somone now, today, and expect to get MSRP I think is near impossible. However the 5k deals seem to be widespread.

[Joker45]

I think the MSRP thing has been beat to death already. ANy deals are far and few between and most guys who got these (including me) did so after months or years of waiting and making calls. To call somone now, today, and expect to get MSRP I think is near impossible. However the 5k deals seem to be widespread.

 

I don't think 5k deals are wide spread. IMHO 5k is still an exceptional deal. Most from what I have been reading are still closer to 10k over or more.

 

Like I have said before, there are still dealers in my area trying to get 30 grand over on '07's that they have been stitting on for 3+ months. They wouldn't even talk about selling a 2008 for less then 25k over.

[SLB8SNK]

I agree.. I forget some times that although this is a large forum, surely not all owners and deals here may be a small portion overall. Any deal you can sleep on is a great deal!

[snblaw]

If everyone would stop throwing their money around, there would be lots of GT500 inventory and then the Stealer organization would have to sell the car for what Ford believes is its value. Just stop buying them and the Dealer organization might pull their heads of of their $%@& and sell it for MSRP. I am waiting for an MSRP deal, if it never surfaces, I will go back to driving a BMW 760Li....

[SLB8SNK]

If only it was so easy! Supply and demand, rule number one! And add to that there are those with deep pockets WILLING to pay ANYHING and there you have it. If we all sat back and waited, the lines would be longer and still no more cars to feed the line, thus the cycle starts again! I agree in theory, however in a world where it is an eye for an eye, you can not expect anyone to play nice.

 

If you are looking for MSRP and are not out making calls every free moment... you better enjoy that BMW!

[snblaw]

 

 

Hey Dan, check out the GT 500 at the end, it never catches the beamer.....

[Joe G]

Like I have said before, there are still dealers in my area trying to get 30 grand over on '07's that they have been stitting on for 3+ months. They wouldn't even talk about selling a 2008 for less then 25k over.

 

Hence the reason they still have them on their lots 3+ months. And the key words to your post: "trying to get"

 

Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result

[SLB8SNK]

Posted Today, 01:22 PM

 

 

Hey Dan, check out the GT 500 at the end, it never catches the beamer.....

 

 

Oh come on, desperate!!! Not like it was a race, it was a Sunday drive and test!! But hey, if you like your "beamer" you will be one less guy in line and put someone one step closer to thier dream car!!!

[ShelbyDude]

 

Hey Dan, check out the GT 500 at the end, it never catches the beamer.....

 

 

Yeah, right! Beamer was nowhere in site when the GT500 started out. The GT500 slowed down behind a few cars as it caught up to those and it still caught up to the beamer near the end!

 

The mere fact it had the beamer in its sights shows it was catching up to it and it wasn't even a race!

 

You can keep the beamer

[mikehart99]

In BC canada, I estimate we only will get btween 100-120 Gt 500's total for both years.

We are grateful to get the opportunity at any reasonable cost.

For me at 15k over, I could barely take a new GT and add mods to 500 specs and be much less in cost. AND IT STILL WOULDN'T BE A REAL SHELBY!!!

 

Lets face it ,,,it is not for everyone,,,thank god,,,thats what makes it special,,apart for of course driving the beast, which will be soon I hope.

 

relax, have fun ,be cool and grateful.

mikehart

[beefcake]

In BC canada, I estimate we only will get btween 100-120 Gt 500's total for both years.

We are grateful to get the opportunity at any reasonable cost.

For me at 15k over, I could barely take a new GT and add mods to 500 specs and be much less in cost. AND IT STILL WOULDN'T BE A REAL SHELBY!!!

 

Lets face it ,,,it is not for everyone,,,thank god,,,thats what makes it special,,apart for of course driving the beast, which will be soon I hope.

 

relax, have fun ,be cool and grateful.

mikehart

 

i sold our last one to an independant dealer in canada, and our sister store just sold theirs at 7k over this week.

 

we have none in stock between 2 stores, we have a vapor coupe on order for the other store, and mine is on order for our store, which i switched to alloy from the vapor, as i really didn't get excited about the pics

 

the dealer down the street, has 2 in stock, but they are still pricing at 20k over

[SLB8SNK]

I was told by a few dealers here in MI that if they can not fetch the higher ADM they are asking that they will sell them to the west coast or Canada? When I asked why, they state that rather than come down in price, and show face, they will get rid of them and still make good money. Strange, but hey, I guess it is all in the politics. If you push guys away for months with a high ADM, then sell it for much less, it is the "i told you so syndrome".

[Zan186]

Lot of things to consider with the GT500.

1) It is not a truly limited production since the number has already exceeded 10,000 units. Hence anyone thinking they are buying an investment might want to rethink their line of thinking. The KR if it holds at under 1200 units will be considered a true limited production and could possibly be worth something to a collector in the future. (and yes the Barrett auctions are a joke)

2) Ford is not exactly rolling in profit's, if they find a car selling and making a substantial profit they are going to produce more and more so as to make money. You can say all you want about limited production and Ford trying to make car's collectible's, but buisness is buisness. If the demand for more GT500's is high they will make more. Gotta ask yourself if you were the CEO of Ford and you were making 15k a car profit would you make more if they would sell?

3) All about the high ADM. Ok look at things logically. The crazy people with deep pockets and the I gotta have it now attitude already jumped. How many people are going to pay 20k over for a GT 500? Answer - none! If there were still people willing to pay that much all the 2007's we be sold already. Even now more and more people are getting MSRP, some might still be 5k over, but 10k over doesnt seem to be selling many vehicles.

4) 8000+ more GT500's are on their way. Now let's use some logic we all learned in high school.

If 2007 GT500 does not sell for over $53,000 (approximately 10k over msrp).

If there are still 200+ GT500's sitting on lots.

If Ford Releases 8000 more GT500's over the next 12 months.

What will the cost of a GT500 end up being?

 

Supply should be good and saturated by October/November. Sales usually slump November/December. So if you are smart you will wait until Mid October before you committ.

 

Then their is the other theory:

Ford will make 8000 more GT500's but 7900 of them are already preorderd, and Ford is not making any more GT500's so dealers will mark up the price again 20K plus over MSRP.

Sorry, I just don't buy into this theory. Lot of variables are coming towards the end of 2008. Just remember Camero and Challenger are going to be hitting fall 2008. GM is really marketing the Camero through the Transformer movie and if you dont think that is gonna influence a ton of people who want the latest greatest then you have blinders on.

 

More than likely Ford is going to release a Boss Mustang similar to the KR to take market share from the Camero. If I were a betting man I would bet that 2008 Fall the GT500's will be below MSRP in that 2009 is going to release a more desireable Stang to compete with the Camero.

[Alloy Dave]

Lot of things to consider with the GT500.

1) It is not a truly limited production since the number has already exceeded 10,000 units. Hence anyone thinking they are buying an investment might want to rethink their line of thinking. The KR if it holds at under 1200 units will be considered a true limited production and could possibly be worth something to a collector in the future. (and yes the Barrett auctions are a joke)

2) Ford is not exactly rolling in profit's, if they find a car selling and making a substantial profit they are going to produce more and more so as to make money. You can say all you want about limited production and Ford trying to make car's collectible's, but buisness is buisness. If the demand for more GT500's is high they will make more. Gotta ask yourself if you were the CEO of Ford and you were making 15k a car profit would you make more if they would sell?

3) All about the high ADM. Ok look at things logically. The crazy people with deep pockets and the I gotta have it now attitude already jumped. How many people are going to pay 20k over for a GT 500? Answer - none! If there were still people willing to pay that much all the 2007's we be sold already. Even now more and more people are getting MSRP, some might still be 5k over, but 10k over doesnt seem to be selling many vehicles.

4) 8000+ more GT500's are on their way. Now let's use some logic we all learned in high school.

If 2007 GT500 does not sell for over $53,000 (approximately 10k over msrp).

If there are still 200+ GT500's sitting on lots.

If Ford Releases 8000 more GT500's over the next 12 months.

What will the cost of a GT500 end up being?

 

Supply should be good and saturated by October/November. Sales usually slump November/December. So if you are smart you will wait until Mid October before you committ.

 

Then their is the other theory:

Ford will make 8000 more GT500's but 7900 of them are already preorderd, and Ford is not making any more GT500's so dealers will mark up the price again 20K plus over MSRP.

Sorry, I just don't buy into this theory. Lot of variables are coming towards the end of 2008. Just remember Camero and Challenger are going to be hitting fall 2008. GM is really marketing the Camero through the Transformer movie and if you dont think that is gonna influence a ton of people who want the latest greatest then you have blinders on.

 

More than likely Ford is going to release a Boss Mustang similar to the KR to take market share from the Camero. If I were a betting man I would bet that 2008 Fall the GT500's will be below MSRP in that 2009 is going to release a more desireable Stang to compete with the Camero.

You have a very oversimplified view of things. Regarding point #2...do you realize that Ford starts designing a car YEARS ahead of when they produce it and establishes plans for launch. How do they know exactly when it will stop making money? Following your logic of "if it makes money, they'll make all they can", then why don't they produce 3 million GT500s? You fail to mention there is a supply-demand equation that wreaks havoc on any simply economic profit model.

 

I just give up reading posts like this.

 

Dave

[Zan186]

You have a very oversimplified view of things. Regarding point #2...do you realize that Ford starts designing a car YEARS ahead of when they produce it and establishes plans for launch. How do they know exactly when it will stop making money? Following your logic of "if it makes money, they'll make all they can", then why don't they produce 3 million GT500s? You fail to mention there is a supply-demand equation that wreaks havoc on any simply economic profit model.

 

I just give up reading posts like this.

 

Dave

 

If they could sell 3 million GT 500's they would produce them.

 

They don't know exactly when it will stop making money, but at the end of each fiscal quater the revenue's are reported. That report has the break down of what is sold and how much profit is made.

The Supply/Demand equation is really not that hard to figure out. Each quater they evaluate how the market is doing.

 

What you are forgeting is that once the car is designed and the first one is made they have the ability then to produce more.

 

You are trying to make things far more complicated than they actually are.

 

Not to mention you have dealers submitting order's or requests for the vehicle as well. I think that gives the parent company a really good idea about demand.

[Alloy Dave]

If they could sell 3 million GT 500's they would produce them.

 

They don't know exactly when it will stop making money, but at the end of each fiscal quater the revenue's are reported. That report has the break down of what is sold and how much profit is made.

The Supply/Demand equation is really not that hard to figure out. Each quater they evaluate how the market is doing.

 

What you are forgeting is that once the car is designed and the first one is made they have the ability then to produce more.

 

You are trying to make things far more complicated than they actually are.

 

Not to mention you have dealers submitting order's or requests for the vehicle as well. I think that gives the parent company a really good idea about demand.

The auto maker must capacitize BEFORE they have any idea about demand. Sure, they can modify supply somewhat...but there are limits. Your original post said they should make "more and more"....but they CAN'T. They can only get so many Tremec transmissions, brembo calipers, GT500 wheels, and many other parts on the car. They gave the ESTIMATED demand to their supply base years ago...and now they have to live within a narrow band around that ESTIMATED demand.

 

I work at a company where we do this type of work. Do you? It's not as easy as it looks from the outside.

[SLB8SNK]

ZAN rather than continue to defend your opinions, how about you do what we did, get the car, go through the experience of it all, then speak with that knowledge. You have a lot a chatter, have all your logic in check, but nothing but words to show for it all. No disrespect, but actions speak louder than words. As I stated in another post to you, why don't you tell us the exact car you are looking for, and what you will pay! Tell us now... then come back and add to your post AFTER you achieve your mission. If you are right, trust there are plenty of guys here willing to shell out accolades, but until then, ciao!

[Zan186]

ZAN rather than continue to defend your opinions, how about you do what we did, get the car, go through the experience of it all, then speak with that knowledge. You have a lot a chatter, have all your logic in check, but nothing but words to show for it all. No disrespect, but actions speak louder than words. As I stated in another post to you, why don't you tell us the exact car you are looking for, and what you will pay! Tell us now... then come back and add to your post AFTER you achieve your mission. If you are right, trust there are plenty of guys here willing to shell out accolades, but until then, ciao!

 

Oh really? Seems the trend of dropping ADM fits my theory to a Tee!

 

Sure actions speak very loudly, but the old addage of "good things come to those who wait" definately applies here!

 

Just like everything else when it first comes out demand is a much stronger driving force than supply.

 

XBox 360, Sony Playstation 3, Iphone, Wii ....... what do they all have in common? Yep when they first came out people were selling them on ebay for 3x what they paid for them.

 

You have to look at the GT500 in the same light as a Z06 corvette. Yeah their are limited numbers but not that limited.

With the KR (1000 units) your correct that MSRP will most likely not be reached

But 20,000 units? That is not limited production that is a ton of cars.

 

Exact car I already mentioned before: Vista Blue Coupe with interior upgrade or Grabber Orange. White with blue stripes would have to be a great deal. Rest I really don't have any desire for. What am I willing to pay? Depends what I can get. I will pay $55,000 range for a KR, which I doubt will be available at that price.

For a GT 500 I won't go over $50,000.

 

I am not really in a big hurry. I have my daily driver car until June 2008, although I only have 5k miles left. However I do have a 91 Jeep Wrangler, and My 2002 Viper to divert miles off the lease car if need arises.

I actually don't want the Mustang until late March, early April. I have to build a new garage to store it, which I wont do until summer 08.

 

 

I am not looking for accolades, I am just expressing my well educated opinion. Seeing as you already bought your GT500 then go out and enjoy it. For me and many others we are smart enough to wait a little to see how things develope. I am pretty confident that I will be ordering one in late October for MSRP. If I don't their is a plethora of choices available should I not find a deal.

[i8yrvpr]

Oh really? Seems the trend of dropping ADM fits my theory to a Tee!

 

Sure actions speak very loudly, but the old addage of "good things come to those who wait" definately applies here!

 

Just like everything else when it first comes out demand is a much stronger driving force than supply.

 

XBox 360, Sony Playstation 3, Iphone, Wii ....... what do they all have in common? Yep when they first came out people were selling them on ebay for 3x what they paid for them.

 

You have to look at the GT500 in the same light as a Z06 corvette. Yeah their are limited numbers but not that limited.

With the KR (1000 units) your correct that MSRP will most likely not be reached

But 20,000 units? That is not limited production that is a ton of cars.

 

Exact car I already mentioned before: Vista Blue Coupe with interior upgrade or Grabber Orange. White with blue stripes would have to be a great deal. Rest I really don't have any desire for. What am I willing to pay? Depends what I can get. I will pay $55,000 range for a KR, which I doubt will be available at that price.

For a GT 500 I won't go over $50,000.

 

I am not really in a big hurry. I have my daily driver car until June 2008, although I only have 5k miles left. However I do have a 91 Jeep Wrangler, and My 2002 Viper to divert miles off the lease car if need arises.

I actually don't want the Mustang until late March, early April. I have to build a new garage to store it, which I wont do until summer 08.

I am not looking for accolades, I am just expressing my well educated opinion. Seeing as you already bought your GT500 then go out and enjoy it. For me and many others we are smart enough to wait a little to see how things develope. I am pretty confident that I will be ordering one in late October for MSRP. If I don't their is a plethora of choices available should I not find a deal.

VIPER....did somebody say viper? Me and my terminator just got really hungry. :snake:

[Zan186]

The auto maker must capacitize BEFORE they have any idea about demand. Sure, they can modify supply somewhat...but there are limits. Your original post said they should make "more and more"....but they CAN'T. They can only get so many Tremec transmissions, brembo calipers, GT500 wheels, and many other parts on the car. They gave the ESTIMATED demand to their supply base years ago...and now they have to live within a narrow band around that ESTIMATED demand.

 

I work at a company where we do this type of work. Do you? It's not as easy as it looks from the outside.

 

Sure, I understand exactly what you saying. However, you do realize that in the auto industry their is a fairly good sized quantity of overproduction of parts. For example, if Ford decides to make 8000 units to sell in 2008, they will order 8000 units plus a % increase over to cover warranties. What if your Transmission breaks they need to have an abundance of extra parts to fix it with.

Although companies do not like utilizing their spare parts cache for production they can sometime buy time with their excess parts as they are waiting for their suppliers to deliver more.

 

Ohh and most suppliers can easily accomodate a 20 to 30% increase in demand. When Ford says we want 8500 Transmissions for their 2008 model year then Tremec ramps up their production line so that they can make 1000 a month. Not saying all companies do this but the good one's will always aim to run at 80% of capacity. If they get to 90% capacity they are looking to expand.

 

Yes I own my own buisness and I have to order supplies and do that type of management weekly. It is not that difficult.

[ColdwaterHotrod]

Your funny Zan186!

 

I have been in this Tier1 & Tier2 parts game for almost 10 years & most of it with Ford suppliers & your logic isn't the same as Fords. May I suggest you contact Bill Ford Jr & let him know your available to replace Alan.

[69machguy]

VIPER....did somebody say viper? Me and my terminator just got really hungry. :snake:

 

I don't post much, but want to chime in with a link to an eBay auction that ended today.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230148578553&rd=1,1

 

This auction was for a white with blue stripes in GA, brand new, no reserve auction sold for $50,160, about $5k ADM. FYI, we had a black/tungsten coupe that sold in June via eBay here in SoCal at Tuttle Click Ford, also $5k ADM. Be patient for receding ADMs and let's not waste our finger muscles throwing darts at each other in the meanwhile

 

I gotta sell one of my '69s to get into a GT500 (preferably white/ble or blue/white). It'll happen ...

 

Wally

[MY500SS]

I don't post much, but want to chime in with a link to an eBay auction that ended today.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=230148578553&rd=1,1

 

This auction was for a white with blue stripes in GA, brand new, no reserve auction sold for $50,160, about $5k ADM. FYI, we had a black/tungsten coupe that sold in June via eBay here in SoCal at Tuttle Click Ford, also $5k ADM. Be patient for receding ADMs and let's not waste our finger muscles throwing darts at each other in the meanwhile

 

I gotta sell one of my '69s to get into a GT500 (preferably white/ble or blue/white). It'll happen ...

 

Wally

 

Hey Wally,

 

Simi Valley Ford has a White with Blue strips coupe. A salesman told me 5k over would take it.

 

Good luck.

Dan

[cloud9]

Hey Wally,

 

Simi Valley Ford has a White with Blue strips coupe. A salesman told me 5k over would take it.

 

Good luck.

Dan

 

If you're willing to take the remaining '07s as they sit you can find $5k over. If you want a specific color and option package, you will probably have to pay up. I patiently waited for over a year and a half for MSRP. I came to the realization that it was unlikely to happen until maybe '09, if they even build them. I was able to get the exact car I wanted for a $7,600 ADM last month. FWIW, this car was built in November '06 and delivered in January '07. The dealer was willing to keep sitting on it if I didn't want to pay the ADM. He owned his inventory outright, so it arguably only cost him money market rates to sit on it, which is much cheaper than ShelbyDude's post indicated for a dealer who was floor planning it.

 

ShelbyDude already hit all the salient points in his earlier post. I would just add this. To give some perspective to the size of the total market, my local dealer has over 30 people still on it's GT500 waiting list WITH A DEPOSIT for MSRP. They got 4 cars in '07 and expect 2 or 3 in '08, and they are one of the top selling Mustang dealers in the country. Given those numbers, I can only assume other markets are similar. Bottom line, an MSRP deal is a long way off from a market clearing supply/demand curve standpoint. I am sure that most of the 30+ on the waiting list in Sioux Falls, SD (pop 200k) would jump on a $2k-$5k ADM deal, and others like me will break down and go a little higher to ensure they get the car the way they want it. There's just not that many of these cars being built when you consider the size of the entire US/CAN market.

[Zan186]

If you're willing to take the remaining '07s as they sit you can find $5k over. If you want a specific color and option package, you will probably have to pay up. I patiently waited for over a year and a half for MSRP. I came to the realization that it was unlikely to happen until maybe '09, if they even build them. I was able to get the exact car I wanted for a $7,600 ADM last month. FWIW, this car was built in November '06 and delivered in January '07. The dealer was willing to keep sitting on it if I didn't want to pay the ADM. He owned his inventory outright, so it arguably only cost him money market rates to sit on it, which is much cheaper than ShelbyDude's post indicated for a dealer who was floor planning it.

 

ShelbyDude already hit all the salient points in his earlier post. I would just add this. To give some perspective to the size of the total market, my local dealer has over 30 people still on it's GT500 waiting list WITH A DEPOSIT for MSRP. They got 4 cars in '07 and expect 2 or 3 in '08, and they are one of the top selling Mustang dealers in the country. Given those numbers, I can only assume other markets are similar. Bottom line, an MSRP deal is a long way off from a market clearing supply/demand curve standpoint. I am sure that most of the 30+ on the waiting list in Sioux Falls, SD (pop 200k) would jump on a $2k-$5k ADM deal, and others like me will break down and go a little higher to ensure they get the car the way they want it. There's just not that many of these cars being built when you consider the size of the entire US/CAN market.

 

Use a little brain power! Let's consider the market shall we? We still have a supply of 2007 which are now selling for between 5 and 8k over msrp. Some are selling, most are sitting.

Get the car the way they want it? I still think every color is still available. Outside of color combinations their is just the interior upgrade package. Everything else is radio/dvd options, which really isn't a deal breaker.

 

Dealer lists? Really I went to 3 dealers in WNY and not one had a list and flat out said we won't take any deposits or keep any lists until we know what the allocation will be.

 

I predict the ADM will be 8k over MSRP when the 2008 hit the dealerships until September 30th. Then they will be 5k and under. When November/Decemeber comes around you will see many MSRP deals.

[cloud9]

Use a little brain power! Let's consider the market shall we? We still have a supply of 2007 which are now selling for between 5 and 8k over msrp. Some are selling, most are sitting.

Get the car the way they want it? I still think every color is still available. Outside of color combinations their is just the interior upgrade package. Everything else is radio/dvd options, which really isn't a deal breaker.

 

Dealer lists? Really I went to 3 dealers in WNY and not one had a list and flat out said we won't take any deposits or keep any lists until we know what the allocation will be.

 

I predict the ADM will be 8k over MSRP when the 2008 hit the dealerships until September 30th. Then they will be 5k and under. When November/Decemeber comes around you will see many MSRP deals.

 

Zan - Not sure how you scored on the IQ test and I don't like to throw darts. However, if you were actually using your acclaimed brain power, you would either have found a GT500 by now for MSRP or be earning enough to afford the ADM. Either way, every day that goes by without the car has an opportunity "cost". I guess you have to decide what that's worth.

[Alloy Dave]

Use a little brain power! Let's consider the market shall we? We still have a supply of 2007 which are now selling for between 5 and 8k over msrp. Some are selling, most are sitting.

Get the car the way they want it? I still think every color is still available. Outside of color combinations their is just the interior upgrade package. Everything else is radio/dvd options, which really isn't a deal breaker.

 

Dealer lists? Really I went to 3 dealers in WNY and not one had a list and flat out said we won't take any deposits or keep any lists until we know what the allocation will be.

 

I predict the ADM will be 8k over MSRP when the 2008 hit the dealerships until September 30th. Then they will be 5k and under. When November/Decemeber comes around you will see many MSRP deals.

As you've proven before, you're wrong again. Stripe delete options are another item as well as the crimson interior. In addition, SOME people do consider radio/dvd options a "deal breaker". Use a little brain power? Wow...

 

Boy, I need to call the Lays company and send them your way...cause that's one helluva chip you have on your shoulder.

[carnut]

Batter up

[beefcake]

Boy, I need to call the Lays company and send them your way...cause that's one helluva chip you have on your shoulder.

 

 

lol