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What's The Difference?


nachtkriechen

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I don't know much about how either Superchargers or Turbos work, but, I thought I knew the difference in how they looked. Apparently what I thought were Superchargers, were "twin screw", I've also heard them called "roots type". However, what I thought was a turbocharger looks EXACTLY like a centrifugal Supercharger, so, what's the difference? I thought all superchargers worked off of a pully system.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

- Josh

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Turbos are more efficient but they suffer from lag. A centrifugal supercharger, while it may look like a turbocharger, will not usually have as much lag but will have parasitic drag from the belt drive off of the engine. The P-51 Mustang Allison version of the Rolls Royce Merlin used a supercharger and a turbocharger in what would seem like the perfect answer. Managing the boost, however, was very complicated. They must have done a good job because the Mustang is a fabulous airplane.

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Turbos are more efficient but they suffer from lag. A centrifugal supercharger, while it may look like a turbocharger, will not usually have as much lag but will have parasitic drag from the belt drive off of the engine. The P-51 Mustang Allison version of the Rolls Royce Merlin used a supercharger and a turbocharger in what would seem like the perfect answer. Managing the boost, however, was very complicated. They must have done a good job because the Mustang is a fabulous airplane.

 

Thanks, dgussin1 and moabman. I appreciate the info, that helps put things in a little better perspective. I know I've seen a discussion similar to what I'm about to ask, either here, or one of the other Mustang sites, but, do you guys know if there's a "magical" boost number NOT to surpass? I was reading that some professional installation shops (specializing in Mustangs) had turboed and supercharged S197s at 10 PSI and over, and that the ones that were around that range were consistantly blowing the engines.

 

There is a dealership here in my town that will order a Stang for you, install a Saleen S/C AND still keep the full factory warranty! However, they told me that because of the design of the Saleen S/C it only uses between 4 & 6 PSI, thus a much more reliable and less stressful power increase on the engine. Though, Saleen is vague about it's horsepower gain "over 400"... that could mean 400.25 HP. Shelby uses Paxton centrifugal's, and then there's a myriad of other turbo and supercharger manufacturers out there. It's hard to know "the smart buy" for your money. (A) If I'm going to shell out $3,000 - $4,000 extra for a supercharged GT, I want to get the most reliable AND maximum horsepower gains I can... but whom do you trust?

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

 

- Josh

 

PS

 

Moabman, I grew up around P51s, Spitfires, Hellcats, T-28s, P-38s, and other warbirds of the past, when I was a kid, in Reno. I know what you mean about the aerial version of the Stang. They have an altogether different growl than the GT, but, just as spine tingling! Personally, my favorite (warbird wise) is the sound of Col. Lefty Gardner's supercharged Allison V-12s roaring to life!

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Oops made a big mistake! The P-51 used the PACKARD version of the Rolls Royce Merlin and not the less powerful Allison that was used in the P-40. In addition, it used a 2 stage supercharger instead of a supercharger/turbocharger combination. The supercharger was gear driven and could change gears in flight - the equivalent of changing pulleys in our belt driven superchargers. Intercooling was a must because the 2 stage would result in outlet temps of 400 degrees F. Some versions of this engine used 150 octane aviation gasoline. Imagine what a gallon of that would cost today!

 

If you like the sound of 1400 hp click here:

 

 

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Oops made a big mistake! The P-51 used the PACKARD version of the Rolls Royce Merlin and not the less powerful Allison that was used in the P-40. In addition, it used a 2 stage supercharger instead of a supercharger/turbocharger combination. The supercharger was gear driven and could change gears in flight - the equivalent of changing pulleys in our belt driven superchargers. Intercooling was a must because the 2 stage would result in outlet temps of 400 degrees F. Some versions of this engine used 150 octane aviation gasoline. Imagine what a gallon of that would cost today!

 

If you like the sound of 1400 hp click here:

 

 

 

 

Oh, man, do I miss those days! My step dad used to take me up in his T-28. Tricycle, not tail dragger. He even let me fly us from Reno to the Cali side of Taho, one time. The 28 has just as distinctive a sound as the Mustang. 9 cyl. radial. I wish I had gotten the chance to ride in a Mustang, but, no such luck. I sat in Lefty's White Lightnin', though.

 

 

- Josh

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I don't know much about how either Superchargers or Turbos work, but, I thought I knew the difference in how they looked. Apparently what I thought were Superchargers, were "twin screw", I've also heard them called "roots type". However, what I thought was a turbocharger looks EXACTLY like a centrifugal Supercharger, so, what's the difference? I thought all superchargers worked off of a pully system.

Thanks,

- Josh

Turbo will make a little more power but you will lose your exhaust tone. A supercharger regardless of it being a roots, roots-magnuson, or centrifugal. Will all have a whine to them. A turbocharger is driven by exhaust gasses provided by the engine burning dinosaurs. A supercharger is driven by the engines crank and therefore is considered a parsitic loss due to the engine driving it. However the turbo is placed in the exhaust stream is a restriction, not to mention the added heat a turbo produces in the engine compartment. Really with the amount of products out there you need to look at what you want form the car.

 

If you just want something you can take out on the weekend and put a hurting on people then by all means mod till your hearts content. However if you plan on driving this car on a daily basis. you may just want some bolt ons and a nitrous kit. I built a 400+ hp V6 mustang I turbo charged it bought a suspension kit and the works and two years later after driving it daily I began to wish I had just stopped the mods at a cold air intake, nitrous, and exhaust. Sure the car was fast as hell and any time I got to show it off and pop the hood it was sweet. But then came the fuel costs it aint cheap to use premium. And buying all the little things to for upkeep. And then I blew the motor running 17 psi. (boost is an addictive thing) I realized how happy I was when I just filled the bottle up and played around on the weekends. :doh:

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Turbo will make a little more power but you will lose your exhaust tone. A supercharger regardless of it being a roots, roots-magnuson, or centrifugal. Will all have a whine to them. A turbocharger is driven by exhaust gasses provided by the engine burning dinosaurs. A supercharger is driven by the engines crank and therefore is considered a parsitic loss due to the engine driving it. However the turbo is placed in the exhaust stream is a restriction, not to mention the added heat a turbo produces in the engine compartment. Really with the amount of products out there you need to look at what you want form the car.

 

If you just want something you can take out on the weekend and put a hurting on people then by all means mod till your hearts content. However if you plan on driving this car on a daily basis. you may just want some bolt ons and a nitrous kit. I built a 400+ hp V6 mustang I turbo charged it bought a suspension kit and the works and two years later after driving it daily I began to wish I had just stopped the mods at a cold air intake, nitrous, and exhaust. Sure the car was fast as hell and any time I got to show it off and pop the hood it was sweet. But then came the fuel costs it aint cheap to use premium. And buying all the little things to for upkeep. And then I blew the motor running 17 psi. (boost is an addictive thing) I realized how happy I was when I just filled the bottle up and played around on the weekends. :doh:

 

 

 

Thank you for your post. I think I would be a lot like you are, hitman. I want the exhaust note, a daily driver, and something to "put a hurting on people" (especially ricers) that pull up to me at the light. I think I would be the same way, wanting more and more horsepower, but, I can also be reasonable. I don't know which Mustang is going to give this to me, but, I think 500 or 600 horsepower is all I could ever want. Quarter miles in the high nines, low tens... plenty fast for me. But, to get that kind of power and speed may very well make me broke, so, if I can manage a GT, (or a "Bullit", or Mach 1 or whichever is the next Mustang upgrade on the showroom floor) and get 450 - 500 HP with a Supercharger mod, I think I'll be happy.

 

 

 

Thanks again,

 

 

 

- Josh

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There is a dealership here in my town that will order a Stang for you, install a Saleen S/C AND still keep the full factory warranty! ... but whom do you trust?

Thanks,

- Josh

 

Beware! I was a salesman for Lone Star Ford and had great fun building modded stangs for my customers. I actually bothered to do a little research on the subject of warranties while I worked there and found that there is NO WARRANTY when you bolt a Saleen SC on a non-Saleen Mustang. They'll cover the SC, but that's it. I'm not suggesting that they (your dealer) are trying to mislead you because for a time I was under the impression that the full warranty remained intact as well. Since I'm anal about procedures and policies, I called Saleen and they faxed me their warranty policy which quite clearly stated that the SC was the only thing they covered.

 

Roush on the other hand does cover the powertrain (engine, tranny, DS, differential and axles), but even that comes with strings attached (dollar limits for repairs, though I think the amounts are fairly adequate and any certified shop can work on it, not just a dealer). Also, for the warranty to remain in effect, you must use the Roush supplied tune and you cannot alter the set up (no pulley changes, etc). I've driven a stock Roush set up and it definitely feels good; coupled with a more aggressive gear it's definitely worth the money.

 

If you're concerned about warranty, I'd go with the Roush SC. Also, in general, it's not so much about the boost, but the power. These engines will handle 450 all day long, BUT you must make sure it gets tuned properly. So before you agree to anything make sure the dealer can clearly spell out what they intend to do - hopefully they've done these before and know what they're doing or at least have a performance shop they use for projects like this.

 

If they intend to cover everything under warranty, i.e. you bring the car to them and they'll cover it themselves (cuz Ford definitely won't), make sure it's put in writing.

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