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What Do You Think Of These Suspension Mods?


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I installed Steeda LCAs, BMR adjustable UCA and mount, BMR adjustable Panhard bar and Eibach sportline lowering springs. Overall the car feels much more planted and handles all the hp much better. If you haven't upgraded suspension then I suggest doing it soon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess I just have a different idea of what a "solid set up" is.... BMR has good parts, we sell them. But I ask because I'm genuinely interested in what people really want, and I'm certainly not trying to put this particular combination down. But from a pure suspensioncraft standpoint, it leaves much to be desired - and maybe that's okay for most. I'll leave it at that....

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I'd say that for those of us who will be using these cars primarily on the street and not the track that a setup like OP's would be more than enough. I'm pretty happy with just my basic KR shock/spring setup (although the control arm pieces are part of the next stage). It's very easy for suspension pieces to get "more complicated" than they need to be. I mean out of all the people with adjustable upper & lower control arms and adjustable panhard bars, how many of them have had the car actually professionally aligned and on the street could you ever tell the difference?

 

I've been down the road of hyper adjustable suspension before and for my racecar it was exactly what i needed, but this car just doesn't need it for it's given duties. If it's not going onto the track then there is very little place to legally access all the potential the car already has safely. Even with my pedestrian setup I can attack on ramps at speeds far higher than is suggested, and while another 10-20mph through those ramps would be fun, I'm not willing to shell out an additional $4,000 for parts and alignment to achieve that.

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I have a similar setup to OP. While my car is mainly a DD (I hit the track occasionally), I feel a big difference in certain suspension upgrades. Others, not so much. Spherical UCA, poly front bushings and shock\struts were the most noticeable for me. The car just feels most predictable around corners or punching the gas.

 

The added benefit, if you do the work yourself, is really getting to know the ins and outs of the car. I've learned a lot the past year turning the wrenches myself.

 

So are the suspension upgrades worth it...To me they are. But I think it is important to figure out what you want out of the upgrade (verses the cost\your budget) by doing lots of homework ahead of time.

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I guess I just have a different idea of what a "solid set up" is.... BMR has good parts, we sell them. But I ask because I'm genuinely interested in what people really want, and I'm certainly not trying to put this particular combination down. But from a pure suspensioncraft standpoint, it leaves much to be desired - and maybe that's okay for most. I'll leave it at that....

 

Depends on your personal needs really. A 1,000hp car leaves much to be desired for someone wanting a 1,500hp car. His set up is an improvement over stock for sure, and fine for cruising the streets or an occasional track day. I said "solid" under the assumption that OP doesn't trailer his car to the track weekly and beat on it. That's all.

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Believe me we sell far more of this package than then CorteX, my query is mainly to figure out if people are really aware of the benefits or even need them. My personal recommendations to most new Shelby owners is to spend half as much on engine mods and slightly more on suspension. It hardly makes much sense to have 1000 or 1500 hp when you can't even get 620 to the ground. The single best suspension upgrade to these cars is a torque arm, which in simple terms makes every extra hp made by mods worth double. Yet almost no one uses one... but I agree with all the previous statement, driving a spirited car around town darn near any upgrades are worth it. I'm not trying to bash anyone's setup simply figure out what's the general level of satisfaction with the OP's combo.

 

I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a fanatic when it comes to suspension. I've really only done the most basic engine upgrades (L/T's, CAI, Tune) but gone way overboard under the car in an all out effort to make use of all that power, even in corners. More than anything I'm just curious if I'm the only one....

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Believe me we sell far more of this package than then CorteX, my query is mainly to figure out if people are really aware of the benefits or even need them. My personal recommendations to most new Shelby owners is to spend half as much on engine mods and slightly more on suspension. It hardly makes much sense to have 1000 or 1500 hp when you can't even get 620 to the ground. The single best suspension upgrade to these cars is a torque arm, which in simple terms makes every extra hp made by mods worth double. Yet almost no one uses one... but I agree with all the previous statement, driving a spirited car around town darn near any upgrades are worth it. I'm not trying to bash anyone's setup simply figure out what's the general level of satisfaction with the OP's combo.

 

I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a fanatic when it comes to suspension. I've really only done the most basic engine upgrades (L/T's, CAI, Tune) but gone way overboard under the car in an all out effort to make use of all that power, even in corners. More than anything I'm just curious if I'm the only one....

I agree. No use having all that power unless you can put it down. BUT i will say there are plenty of guys who just like saying they have a ton of power and never bother to use it. Which is fine too. To each their own.

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Believe me we sell far more of this package than then CorteX, my query is mainly to figure out if people are really aware of the benefits or even need them. My personal recommendations to most new Shelby owners is to spend half as much on engine mods and slightly more on suspension. It hardly makes much sense to have 1000 or 1500 hp when you can't even get 620 to the ground. The single best suspension upgrade to these cars is a torque arm, which in simple terms makes every extra hp made by mods worth double. Yet almost no one uses one... but I agree with all the previous statement, driving a spirited car around town darn near any upgrades are worth it. I'm not trying to bash anyone's setup simply figure out what's the general level of satisfaction with the OP's combo.

 

I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a fanatic when it comes to suspension. I've really only done the most basic engine upgrades (L/T's, CAI, Tune) but gone way overboard under the car in an all out effort to make use of all that power, even in corners. More than anything I'm just curious if I'm the only one....

What are you running? I'm using the Cortex Watts Link, TA, LCA and LCA mounting brackets with the stock Bilstien adjustable dampers and FRPP M-5300-L springs. This makes a very good street set up to me. But I've been wanting to do something with the front LCAs and bushings. I've been considering the FRPP Boss 302S LCA kit and bushings. This would eliminate the stock hydro bushings for less deflection without going to the extreme of going to a spherical bearing control arm that Filip posted pics of on Facebook but hasn't offered for sale to the public as far as I know of.

 

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22437

 

https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=13110

 

For street driving without any thoughts of drag racing the TA is he only way to go after driving the car set up both ways. Most people don't understand and don't want to take the time to learn what a TA will do for this car on the street. 800RWHP becomes a whole lot easier to handle and use on a corner exit than a BMR UCA/LCA combo will. The TA inspires you to drive much faster with confidence that the car isn't going to jump up and bite you when it hits a bump in the pavement mid-way through the corner while trying to put power to the pavement. And if the bump is big enough to get the rear axle light on the suspension, the car sticks as soon as it settles back down on the suspension. It reacts so fast in this situation that you usually don't have to lift or induce big counter-steering efforts to recover from it.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that there are people like me who daily drive ours over rough roads and only make around 550whp. With a good set of street tires I have to really be horsing around to have much issue with the traction I already have. If I were to bolt on another 200hp I'd need to spend an equal amount in the suspension to manage that. The guy who's chasing 800+ whp is going to need far more than a guy like me with a pulley/intake combo, and I think I represent the more common customer.

 

If it were my business I'd stock suspension pieces to support basic mods almost 10:1 vs a full torque arm Cortex setup, because I think that's an optimistic ratio of how many Cortex units you'd actually sell by comparison. Sure we all "want" that setup, but with budgets more people are going to overspend on HP and underspend on chassis upgrades of various natures. Dyno sheets are fun, new bracing under the car isn't quite as impressive to brag about in most circles.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that there are people like me who daily drive ours over rough roads and only make around 550whp. With a good set of street tires I have to really be horsing around to have much issue with the traction I already have. If I were to bolt on another 200hp I'd need to spend an equal amount in the suspension to manage that. The guy who's chasing 800+ whp is going to need far more than a guy like me with a pulley/intake combo, and I think I represent the more common customer.

 

If it were my business I'd stock suspension pieces to support basic mods almost 10:1 vs a full torque arm Cortex setup, because I think that's an optimistic ratio of how many Cortex units you'd actually sell by comparison. Sure we all "want" that setup, but with budgets more people are going to overspend on HP and underspend on chassis upgrades of various natures. Dyno sheets are fun, new bracing under the car isn't quite as impressive to brag about in most circles.

 

I'm in a VERY unique position. My primary job is not selling at all, and in fact I work more and more with promotion, market development and even entertainment. Selling parts is simply a by-product of what I do for customers who buy our HyperStangs. So optimizing profit from parts sales comes second to making happy customers. BMR products have a fairly large profit margin, so I get why so many distributors sell them - and they're not bad parts. I certainly would recommend them over many others. I also agree with you that the vast majority of buyers are going to spend their dollars on engine mods, and that is also fine. Unfortunately, most will not have the opportunity to sample a variety of setups before making their purchase and, judging by most forums, people buy what is popular and affordable. I often point out that it really doesn't matter until you've reached the limits of traction, but let me assure you at that limit you really want to have more.

 

 

What are you running? I'm using the Cortex Watts Link, TA, LCA and LCA mounting brackets with the stock Bilstien adjustable dampers and FRPP M-5300-L springs. This makes a very good street set up to me. But I've been wanting to do something with the front LCAs and bushings. I've been considering the FRPP Boss 302S LCA kit and bushings. This would eliminate the stock hydro bushings for less deflection without going to the extreme of going to a spherical bearing control arm that Filip posted pics of on Facebook but hasn't offered for sale to the public as far as I know of.

 

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22437

 

https://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=13110

 

For street driving without any thoughts of drag racing the TA is he only way to go after driving the car set up both ways. Most people don't understand and don't want to take the time to learn what a TA will do for this car on the street. 800RWHP becomes a whole lot easier to handle and use on a corner exit than a BMR UCA/LCA combo will. The TA inspires you to drive much faster with confidence that the car isn't going to jump up and bite you when it hits a bump in the pavement mid-way through the corner while trying to put power to the pavement. And if the bump is big enough to get the rear axle light on the suspension, the car sticks as soon as it settles back down on the suspension. It reacts so fast in this situation that you usually don't have to lift or induce big counter-steering efforts to recover from it.

 

Mr. H, I do run the BMR front control arms, but we've also designed a lightened hub assembly and spindle from our race shop which provides more steering. You'd probably be fine with the longer ball joints to keep the front role-center correct, although with the FRPP springs you really aren't too far off. I have the complete JRi coilover kit as well and I run a fairly high rate linear spring. If I recall you used the street versions which do have one spherical bearing on each link. To be honest, I always recommend the street version even to our customers that want to track heavily. And I couldn't agree with you more about the T/A. I make the analogy with the GT500, with and without a supercharger - it makes it a different car completely. Imagine going back?

Edited by HyperStangs
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Mr. H, I do run the BMR front control arms, but we've also designed a lightened hub assembly and spindle from our race shop which provides more steering. You'd probably be fine with the longer ball joints to keep the front role-center correct, although with the FRPP springs you really aren't too far off. I have the complete JRi coilover kit as well and I run a fairly high rate linear spring. If I recall you used the street versions which do have one spherical bearing on each link. To be honest, I always recommend the street version even to our customers that want to track heavily. And I couldn't agree with you more about the T/A. I make the analogy with the GT500, with and without a supercharger - it makes it a different car completely. Imagine going back?

 

 

No I'm more of an extremist myself and went with all spherical bearings in the rear. It really doesn't introduce that much NVH for what you're using in my opinion. I'm afraid if I went with spherical in the front suspension control arms that it would become a little brutal for street duty even with the FRPP springs. After my Kenny Brown experience I've wanted to stay away from the aftermarket front control arms and K-members. The only reason i was thinking of using the ones Filip built for a 302 is he used the stock K-member and strut housings. With my experience with the stuff I have in the rear from him, I wouldn't be afraid of whatever he builds for the front. He really is only interested in building his SLA system for the front. I understand why and don't blame him when you consider how a strut front suspension functions and the camber changes as it goes through its range of travel. Stiff springs are unfortunately the only way to combat it without going to a SLA design

 

I can't imagine going back to a UCA/LCA rear suspension. The TA and Watts Link tamed the snap throttle oversteer issues and makes the car much safer to drive spiritedly

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OP - enjoy your parts. Not a bad start. If you ever have any questions, please contact me.

 

Hyper - We actually have low margins, compared to our competitors. This is why many companies do not bother selling our stuff. I'd bet that our top tier discount is lower than any other suspension manufacture for the S197 Mustang. (substantial and reputable company)

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I'm in a VERY unique position. My primary job is not selling at all, and in fact I work more and more with promotion, market development and even entertainment. Selling parts is simply a by-product of what I do for customers who buy our HyperStangs.

 

 

 

Mr. H, I do run the BMR front control arms, but we've also designed a lightened hub assembly and spindle from our race shop which provides more steering. You'd probably be fine with the longer ball joints to keep the front role-center correct, although with the FRPP springs you really aren't too far off. I have the complete JRi coilover kit as well and I run a fairly high rate linear spring.

Jeff,

How does your hub/spindle assembly provide MORE steering ?

 

What is the CORRECT roll center ?

 

Are these the JRi coilovers that you got from Filip and what spring rates did you go with and why ?

 

PWC Boss Mustang drivers are looking for softer and softer springs in order to get grip (there's a nice picture of Dean Martin lifting the inside front tire coming off of the corner because he's now able to get greater bite out of the back of the car (and he doesn't run a torque arm)

 

Are you able to share with us on these questions?

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Jeff,

How does your hub/spindle assembly provide MORE steering ?

 

What is the CORRECT roll center ?

 

Are these the JRi coilovers that you got from Filip and what spring rates did you go with and why ?

 

PWC Boss Mustang drivers are looking for softer and softer springs in order to get grip (there's a nice picture of Dean Martin lifting the inside front tire coming off of the corner because he's now able to get greater bite out of the back of the car (and he doesn't run a torque arm)

 

Are you able to share with us on these questions?

 

The primary goal with my car was to initially eliminate weight. We removed the Track Package coolers and I've whittled down everything I can from the front of the car - I estimate we've removed 140 lbs off the front end. The front spindles have a considerable amount of material removed and the steering tie rod connecting point is moved toward the ball joint slightly, effectively producing more steering with less input (a trick I learned from Jim Guthrie on his drift car). I also run the lighter hubs and considerably lighter wheels. As you know, its all about keeping unsprung weight down. They are the JRi shocks from Filip and I'm considerably impressed with them. Jeff used to work in Albuquerque with a gentleman in our race shop, Foxy, when he worked for Penske. We put the shocks on our shock dyno and mapped each setting and I have to say they are superb pieces of machinery. PWC Boss Mustangs running the CorteX setup also run a lot more tire on all four corners and the picture of Dean lifting the front tire is coming off a rumble strip curb, you know perfectly well if the car is lifting the front inside tire in a turn he's not making full use even though he's getting all that weight transfer to the rears. I know you're looking for a suspension "fight" but you won't get one. If you want to discuss role-centers and the merits of keeping the "correct" settings (meaning only corrected from lowering springs) I'll be happy to discuss. My question to the OP was simply a query. I don't dislike BMR parts and I'm not looking to ruffle anyone's feathers. When I express my opinions I always include the disclaimer that it IS my personal opinion. I've made no claims of superior performance other than I've experienced excellent results myself. I'm not fond of the panhard/UCA setup and I don't think the vast number of people that go that route know the added benefits of a watts or a T/A. But I've had these arguments before with a gentleman that used to hang out on the Saleen boards about 20 years ago. We would fight about the Global West Tracklink and its benefits (I argued against it since it effectively mounted the pivot point to the thin metal on the driveshaft tunnel). I don't remember his name now, but I'm betting you two are related.... if however Im mistaken and you're simply hoping to help improve the "general" knowledge of other Mustang/Shelby enthusiasts (because knowledge is a good thing), then I apologize. But if you're simply trying to call me out, I'm happy to go down that road.

 

Jeff

Edited by HyperStangs
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OP - enjoy your parts. Not a bad start. If you ever have any questions, please contact me.

 

Hyper - We actually have low margins, compared to our competitors. This is why many companies do not bother selling our stuff. I'd bet that our top tier discount is lower than any other suspension manufacture for the S197 Mustang. (substantial and reputable company)

 

Kelly, please don't infer that I'm suggesting BMR products are not excellent. I was simply trying to understand from some members what they are hoping to achieve when they look for upgrades. Irrespective of margin, I'll be the first to admit that BMR products are a step above in quality and price. One of only two brands I recommend (and use) regularly.

 

Jeff

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I guess I just have a different idea of what a "solid set up" is.... BMR has good parts, we sell them. But I ask because I'm genuinely interested in what people really want, and I'm certainly not trying to put this particular combination down. But from a pure suspensioncraft standpoint, it leaves much to be desired - and maybe that's okay for most. I'll leave it at that....

 

Hmm. In the interest of gaining knowledge, I really wish you wouldn't "leave it at that".

 

When I sat down and planned out my mods I went with a full variety of parts & products on my car. And for what I've used it for SO FAR, I think I went WAY overkill. The *only* issue I have is with the Third Link (aka UCA) being real noisey. I used Roush's offering with the spherical joint and it's real noisey on bumps. Even little ones. I have a constant clunking in the rear. But it is VERY positive, front and rear.

 

I used BMR K-member and A-arms on the front of my car (via Shelby, CS branded) with Roush Trailing Arms (aka LCA) and Thirid-Link (aks UCA) on the rear. BMR/CS adjustable Panhard Bar & Brace with the Ford Racing Perf. Parts FR-3 Handling Pack (FRPP uses Eibach swaybars/springs & Tokiko Shocks/Struts). I finished off the front with Shelby (Drake) anti bumpsteer tie-rod ends, a Steeda Radiator/swaybar support and Steeda drive-shaft hoop along with CS/Maximum Motorsports Caster-Camber adjuster plates and Shelby/Baer 6S brake calipers/rotors Fr. & Rr. Oh, and the PST Carbon Fiber 1-piece driveshaft (which has been a blessing with the Mile events I've ran).

 

Out of all mods, the only one I may change is the rear UCA as described above.

 

I don't think anyone should stick to one brand exclusively for every part on the car. Use what fits your need best, regardless of fit/finish.

 

 

One mans opinion,

 

Phill

Edited by 2010KonaBlueGT
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The primary goal with my car was to initially eliminate weight. We removed the Track Package coolers and I've whittled down everything I can from the front of the car - I estimate we've removed 140 lbs off the front end. The front spindles have a considerable amount of material removed and the steering tie rod connecting point is moved toward the ball joint slightly, effectively producing more steering with less input (a trick I learned from Jim Guthrie on his drift car). I also run the lighter spindles and considerably lighter wheels. As you know, its all about keeping unsprung weight down. They are the JRi shocks from Filip and I'm considerably impressed with them. Jeff used to work in Albuquerque with a gentleman in our race shop, Foxy, when he worked for Penske. We put the shocks on our shock dyno and mapped each setting and I have to say they are superb pieces of machinery. PWC Boss Mustangs running the CorteX setup also run 315's on all four corners and the picture of Dean lifting the front tire is coming off a rumble strip curb, you know perfectly well if the car is lifting the front inside tire in a turn he's not making full use even though he's getting all that weight transfer to the rears. I know you're looking for a suspension "fight" but you won't get one. If you want to discuss role-centers and the merits of keeping the "correct" settings (meaning only corrected from lowering springs) I'll be happy to discuss. My question to the OP was simply a query. I don't dislike BMR parts and I'm not looking to ruffle anyone's feathers. When I express my opinions I always include the disclaimer that it IS my personal opinion. I've made no claims of superior performance other than I've experienced excellent results myself. I'm not fond of the panhard/UCA setup and I don't think the vast number of people that go that route know the added benefits of a watts or a T/A. But I've had these arguments before with a gentleman that used to hang out on the Saleen boards about 20 years ago. We would fight about the Global West Tracklink and its benefits (I argued against it since it effectively mounted the pivot point to the thin metal on the driveshaft tunnel). I don't remember his name now, but I'm betting you two are related.... if however Im mistaken and you're simply hoping to help improve the "general" knowledge of other Mustang/Shelby enthusiasts (because knowledge is a good thing), then I apologize. But if you're simply trying to call me out, I'm happy to go down that road.

 

Jeff

Jeff,

Nobodys looking for a suspension fight here - just asking you to explain yourself a little better to the others here on the forum. Not everyone is affiliated with a shop like you and have your "unique position"as you put it.

Example; You tell people that you modified your hubs/spindles - let them know that you did it to reduce the unsprung weight and you shortened the length of the steering arm on the spindle which in effect gives you a quicker overall steering ratio (the wheels turn the same amount with less # of turns at the steering wheel).

As far as the roll center issue goes - I would think that you would try explaining to people that by lowering the car you will cause a change in the geometry of the front end (along with the rear)and it's best to do things to re-establish things back to where they were as to not to create new problems/issues . By putting in a longer lower ball joint on a front LCA of a lowered vehicle you will be placing the LCA back to its original position (feel free to use terms like roll center but also add in what that is and how it effects the handling of the car) and also mention things like if you are going to do an extended ball joint then one should consider also using a bump steer correction piece or an extended outer tie rod end and why.

The guy started this thread with sharing what he did with his car and you respond with a challenging statement - I'm just suggesting that you share what you have done and explain things a little better on how those changes worked/satisfied your needs. Everyone here has different needs/desires towards how they want their Shelbys to ride/feel and are hopefully open to hear about what others have done and are willing to contribute.

I've only been on this forum and only been posting since 2012 so ....

Also ,if you are interested in my back ground then you can find a portion of it listed in the Team Shelby Racing section under New Moderator topic.

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I apologize sincerely (knee-jerk reaction from PTSD in other forums), I do take for granted that "most" active members on this forum have a working understanding of suspension and you're right I should explain myself more clearly. But I honestly was NOT trying to be "challenging" to the OP and I thought I went out of my way simply to express that I was curious if, what is clearly a very popular and affordable upgrade by anyone's standards, was everything they wanted. I did not mean to imply that it is not and should not be considered an upgrade. I also don't suppose that most should follow my lead. I try stuff we don't even offer on my car. I do only want to contribute and of course learn myself. I appreciate your response. Thank you.

 

Jeff

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PWC Boss Mustangs running the CorteX setup also run a lot more tire on all four corners and the picture of Dean lifting the front tire is coming off a rumble strip curb, you know perfectly well if the car is lifting the front inside tire in a turn he's not making full use even though he's getting all that weight transfer to the rears.

 

Jeff

FWIW - Just for reference

I was referring to this picture

10445444_10204092638864091_4998814611863471_n.jpg

Dean is well past the inside apex rumble strip and as you can see the inside rear tire is holding onto the ground while the inside front tire is lifting off of the track and the car is turned towards the turn exit. To me that looks like he's able to keep the hammer down and unwind his steering wheel as he exits the turn. This is a great picture showing a well balanced car with a very talented driver at the wheel. The only parts that are CorteX that I'm aware of on this car is the now legal CorteX watts linkage set up. Sorry to go off subject - FLShelbyLover enjoy your ride !

Edited by Albino500
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Apologies also to the OP, that is in fact the photo I was thinking of and while I do recall from memory (which isn't that good anymore) his car was closer to the apex, I just can't imagine that he has enough weight transfer to lift an inside tire at that instant. I gotta think that its still a reaction to landing from the curb and rebounding (shock oscillation?). He has zero steering input at that instant, the tires are in a straight line. His foot is on the floor for sure. Torque? I don't think so.... Clearly the car is squatting, but can we agree that a car with that much lateral weight transfer would respond like a water bed in the esses? The R/C would have to be too far underground. I don't know for sure how they set their cars, but from what I understand the RC should be slightly above ground and offset to the right slightly (enlighten me if I'm wrong). Lets leave manufacturers out of this conversation and agree we'll still love each other when this is done. No question this is a talented driver, but I'm pretty sure a 4-wheel car handles better than a 3-wheeled version. For argument sake, would this not be the perfect model for a torque-arm assuming he is lifting the inside front due to weight transfer alone, keeping some of that up front? At the very least a bit more rear bar would be in order. Lets discuss.... here or a different thread?

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