2009 Boss Mustang Prototype Spied?

[MustangFanatic]

As Dan stated welcome Steve!! SU is a great place, lots of great Mustang folk. Beautiful GO GT!! Pretty nice GN in the back ground, even for a GM product!! Enjoy your stay and your pony!!

 

~Steve

[68fastback]

Thank you Dan! Nice of you to welcome me. Like most Mustang fans, I belong to several great Mustang sites and am really happy to have found this one.

 

Here's a pic of my '07 GT Grabber Orange...

 

 

Very schweet! The more I see GO the more I like the color! Good luck with her!!

[1BADGT500]

Lets face it, people bought the Boss Mustangs mainly because of performance,,, I don't give a rats butt if the interior and such is different... I don't care if it has Boss stitched in the seats...

 

It must have a functional hood scoop, it must look MEAN, and it by God better run better than anything yet produced...

 

If it's gonna carry on the name, it must carry on it's legacy... HANDS Down...

 

Shed some weight, put on a fiberglass / Aluminum front end / Naturally aspirated 400 HP minimum.. NO SUPERCHARGERS / TURBOS's NATURALLY ASPIRATED I SAY....

 

Make all the above crap optional equip, but give us a limited run of a Massive HP / Torque monster with Boss stripes that mimic the originals and change every year they offer it......

 

Musclford

 

 

Well put, I agree.

[sprint200]

Amen!! Glad to have another member of the "Boss club".

 

Totally agree, the Boss is all about performance. A Boss Mustang should have a clean, mean appearance (see the PJ Saleen) with a lower curb weight (3,400 lbs with a full load of fuel would be ideal), at least 400 Naturally Aspirated HP under the hood (no artifical aspiration here), a redline around 6,500 - 7,000 rpms, a tight 6 spd transmission, massive brakes and (hopefully) an IRS or at least a Watts link like the PJ Saleen.

 

Ford can ditch the extra "creature comforts" on the Boss, no leather seats, Mach-anything stereo (I like my music singing 8 cylinder NA harmony) or any other weight-adding optiions - I'd even take manual windows if it would save a few pounds.

 

+1 on all the performance stuff.....but if the photo's are a clue to the appearance then

 

the best looking concept I've seen so far was posted by 1970boss302: post #73

 

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/forums/inde...c=465&st=60

[68fastback]

+1 on all the performance stuff.....but if the photo's are a clue to the appearance then

 

the best looking concept I've seen so far was posted by 1970boss302: post #73

 

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/forums/inde...c=465&st=60

I played with that pic a little to make it more aero like some rumors have the MY'10 and to give it hips. I didn't do a very good job, but it might give some feeling for the 'refresh' look body as that GG Boss... as I said it's not very good.. you have to sort of imagine <lol>

 

 

Dan

[MustangFanatic]

+1 on all the performance stuff.....but if the photo's are a clue to the appearance then

 

the best looking concept I've seen so far was posted by 1970boss302: post #73

 

http://www.stangsunleashed.com/forums/inde...c=465&st=60

 

Certainly like that concept except with hips as Dan pointed out. However, if Ford can save a few R&D $, they could borrow the PJ Saleen look and focus the bulk of their time and money on providing serious performance pieces under the skin of the Boss.

[maverick807]

Ok so I've been reading these boards for quite some time now but this is my first post. And I'm sad to say it may not be the best news. This past weekend I went to a "Mustang Rally" (as Ford called it) where they had groups of about 15 current owners discussing the +'s and -'s about our 05-07 Mustangs. We sat in front of about 30-40 designers and engineers from Ford who were interested in our feedback. Here's the bad news....

After the Q&A they brought us out to the lot and showed a Mustang that looked exactly like the GO one pictured here as the next BOSS except this one was a dark gray and had single pipe exhaust. Everything else in terms of appearance was the same as the GO pic. The questions they were asking about it were if we thought it was a good V6 appearance package, how much we would pay for it as a V6 upgrade and so on.....but it was all as only an appearance package for V6. Of course I asked about the BOSS and BULLIT but of course they were tight lipped. They also were not too fond of me trying to take a pic of gray mustang they questioned us on so I couldn't snap a shot to post here

 

Some other highlights from the Q&A:

-they were asking A LOT of questions about our thoughts on a retractable hardtop

-they asked us what came to mind when hearing "mach 1" "boss" and "bullit" (but that's all the talk they had about those)

-they asked how important we thought is was to refresh the styling and how dramatic it should be over the next few years.

[68fastback]

Ok so I've been reading these boards for quite some time now but this is my first post. And I'm sad to say it may not be the best news. This past weekend I went to a "Mustang Rally" (as Ford called it) where they had groups of about 15 current owners discussing the +'s and -'s about our 05-07 Mustangs. We sat in front of about 30-40 designers and engineers from Ford who were interested in our feedback. Here's the bad news....

After the Q&A they brought us out to the lot and showed a Mustang that looked exactly like the GO one pictured here as the next BOSS except this one was a dark gray and had single pipe exhaust. Everything else in terms of appearance was the same as the GO pic. The questions they were asking about it were if we thought it was a good V6 appearance package, how much we would pay for it as a V6 upgrade and so on.....but it was all as only an appearance package for V6. Of course I asked about the BOSS and BULLIT but of course they were tight lipped. They also were not too fond of me trying to take a pic of gray mustang they questioned us on so I couldn't snap a shot to post here

 

Some other highlights from the Q&A:

-they were asking A LOT of questions about our thoughts on a retractable hardtop

-they asked us what came to mind when hearing "mach 1" "boss" and "bullit" (but that's all the talk they had about those)

-they asked how important we thought is was to refresh the styling and how dramatic it should be over the next few years.

 

Hey, Maverick -- WELCOME TO SU!!!! and thanks for sharing that.

 

Sounds like Ford is doing some good ol' fashioned market research -- good stuff!

 

I 'm not too concerned about the V6 positioning tho... market tests in the auto indiustry are rarely done in their true context. Good questions they're asking. The only scary thing is that the Mach and Bullitt are more tape and sticker and the Boss is the real deal, so I get a little queasy even seeing them in the same sentence <lol> but that may be good... they may be trying to assess if the public genuinely distinguishes the Boss -- who knows?!

 

Interesting questions on the refresh and the retractable hardtop too...

 

thanks again and hope you stick around.

 

Dan

[C0braFan]

With all the posts for the past year summed up, what enthusiasts here really want are two Boss models--a consumer/street version and an amalgamation (sp?) version to get into T/A. The Boss models produced strictly for T/A, delivered to race teams, were probably lacking accessories not absolutely essential for the track, while the street version sold to dealerships could have had additional features like A/C and P/S.

 

If we assume Ford is building just one model, which is it likely to be? Let's shoot for 3400 lbs and speculate on two different versions: N/A 5.4L iron block, alum heads and H/boss N/A 5.7L or 6.2L alum block. In both cases, we would want a 6-speed, I presume. Everything else can be guesstimated based on the GT. So let's create a build sheet listing the real-world possibilities:

 

Engine A: 5.4L iron block, alum heads -- 400 hp, 380 lb/ft

Engine B: 5.7L alum block, alum heads -- 400 hp, 430 lb/ft

Engine C: 6.2L alum block, alum heads -- 450 hp, 470 lb/ft

Transmission A: Tremec 3650 5-Speed

Transmission B:

 

anyone want to take it from here...?

[68fastback]

I'm still stuck on the 5.4 iron block in a Boss -- no sale here ...could not even consider it ...too much weight upfront. I realize the diff is only 85-100lbs but it's all in the wrong place. Plus the 5.4 is just not the rev-happy motor the Boss needs to be, imo.

 

The Boss needs to be a DOHC alloy modular (an updated '01 Cobra block would do nicely) and/or an alloy H/Boss for me. If they do the Boss with an iron block, the aftermarket will kill it's sales with modded GTs, I think ... a poor man's Saleen.

 

In fact, I rather have a modestly oversquare 5.0 3V alloy forged motor (pref. via spray-bore) than a long-stroke iron 4V. Maybe it's just me, but I can't imagine a line forming for an iron 5.4 Boss, no matter how pretty the paint looks.

 

[nilkilla]

The wheels on the pictured vehicle are the new 18s for the Mustang GT line.(seen on new ones on lot, and in 08MY mustang brocure)

 

maybe this is prototype for the mid-year S-GT replacement?

[C0braFan]

The Boss needs to be a DOHC alloy modular (an updated '01 Cobra block would do nicely) and/or an alloy H/Boss for me. If they do the Boss with an iron block, the aftermarket will kill it's sales with modded GTs, I think ... a poor man's Saleen.

 

Okay but I'm talking about a real-world build sheet here, and as far as I know, there is no such thing as a 5.4 alloy block outside of the Ford GT, and that shortblock sells for $15k. Even the Aussie Boss 290 is iron, based on the 01 R. A dream wish list is fun, but a realistic build sheet would be even better, based on the intelligent analysts on this forum. Anyone interested, feel free to modify this list to configure a realistic next-gen Boss with most likely components.

 

 

BUILD SHEET

 

SPECIFICATIONS

Make: Ford

Model: Mustang

Style: Boss

Base Price: $32,000 (est)

Drive Type: RWD

Curb Weight: 3,600 lbs (with fuel)

 

ENGINE

5.4L DOHC iron, Ford GT heads -- 400 hp, 380 lb/ft <-- ex nay?

5.7L all alloy -- 400 hp, 430 lb/ft

6.2L all alloy -- 450 hp, 470 lb/ft

 

AXLE

8.8" Solid Rear Axle

Independent rear axle

Ring Gear & Pinion ratio: 3.73

Optional Ratio: 4.10 (dealer install)

 

CLUTCH

215mm cerametallic

 

TRANSMISSION

T3650 5-speed

T56 6-speed

 

COMPONENTS

Shaker hood scoop

 

WHEELS

18x10", P255/45ZR18 (front)

18x12", P255/55ZR18 (rear)

 

BRAKES

14" Brembo cross-drilled, 4-piston (front)

13" Brembo cross-drilled, 2-piston (rear)

 

STEERING

Power rack and pinion

 

SUSPENSION

Reverse-L independent MacPherson strut, 34-mm tubular stabilizer bar (front)

Three-link solid axle with coil springs, Panhard rod, 24-mm solid stabilizer bar (rear)

 

BODY CONSTRUCTION

Unitized welded steel body

Aluminum hood

Rear window slats

 

SAFETY FEATURES

Front Airbags: Driver, Passenger

Side Airbags: None

Head Airbags: None

Antilock Brakes: Standard

Traction Control: Standard (disabled by default)

[moabman]

I am 100% with Dan here. If you want big iron get a GT500. I want a road racer. Alloy block is a must for me too. A 4.6 with 3 or 4v and a bottom end that can take 6800 all day long would be nice. Just get the hp around 400 and you would have a hell of a road car. They need to change to front bumper cover to include some down force because the regular GT produces too much lift. As much as I like the interior of the 197s, they are just too heavy. It needs to go on a diet. For the boss, maybe they could ditch the seats. I would like to see them move the battery to the back and help the weight distribution. Oh yeah, if they don't change the seat position, leave off the hood scoop. I'm 6' and because the seats are so low, even I have trouble seeing over the current hood. I bet a ram air intake some where on the front fascia could be just as effective. I know that's sacrilege but seeing the course is important.

[C0braFan]

I am 100% with Dan here. If you want big iron get a GT500. I want a road racer. Alloy block is a must for me too. A 4.6 with 3 or 4v and a bottom end that can take 6800 all day long would be nice. Just get the hp around 400 and you would have a hell of a road car. They need to change to front bumper cover to include some down force because the regular GT produces too much lift. As much as I like the interior of the 197s, they are just too heavy. It needs to go on a diet. For the boss, maybe they could ditch the seats. I would like to see them move the battery to the back and help the weight distribution. Oh yeah, if they don't change the seat position, leave off the hood scoop. I'm 6' and because the seats are so low, even I have trouble seeing over the current hood. I bet a ram air intake some where on the front fascia could be just as effective. I know that's sacrilege but seeing the course is important.

 

 

If all you want is a 6800 redline with the 4.6 3V, just install Comp Xtreme3 cams and you're good to go, no need for Ford to build a whole new car.

 

But all your ideas are good. How about modifying the build list with your own additions, then at some point everyone can vote on most likely componetns and ditch the rest. It seems to me that it would solidify all of the ranting, raving, and speculation on this board.

[68fastback]

What matters, imo, is the class-bounds for the TransAm series, what Ford has in the parts bin and how much engineering expense is required to fix the holes. The path of least resistance is an inappropriate 5.4 iron engine (:barf: <lol)

 

Ford needs to update the '01 Cobra alloy motor for the better heads and with the long-overdue block/cooling improvements to match the heads. If Ford is to keep making the modular, that upgrade and an affordable intake like the Cobra-R but with passage volumes tailored to the 4.6 or 5.0 displacement is essential. If they don't do this, it tells me the modular is dead -- being milked until the H/Boss can replace it. The H/Boss will be essential to an CAFE-friendly hi-po NA volume motor.

 

Those two holes (update alloy DOHC cooling and intake) in the Ford parts bin won't go away without expense. This is why it's critical for us to find out the CID class boundaries for the new TransAm series coming along. It will tell us if the mod is dead or not.

 

It's totally realistic to update the DOHC alloy 4.6 block and intake! With good rods that motor will rev happily past 7K The '01 Cobra revs happily to it's 6800 redline with I-beams -- the Cobra-R, even with H-beams and superb intake, is limited to 6600 rpm -- the 5.4's long stroke hamstrings it, imo.

[C0braFan]

What matters, imo, is the class-bounds for the TransAm series, what Ford has in the parts bin and how much engineering expense is required to fix the holes. The path of least resistance is an inappropriate 5.4 iron engine (:barf: <lol)

 

The alloy 5.0 Cammer TransAm engine is not realistic for a production Mustang due to it's cost and maintenance requirements.

 

Ford needs to update the '01 Cobra alloy motor for the better heads and with the long-overdue block/cooling improvements to match the heads. If Ford is to keep making the modular, that upgrade and an affordable intake like the Cobra-R but with passage volumes tailored to the 4.6 or 5.0 displacement is essential.

 

There's nothing special about the 2001 Cobra's 4.6 alloy....it's the precursor of the 4.6 3V. Not a big difference. Same engine used in the 04 Mach1.

 

Those two holes (update alloy DOHC cooling and intake) in the Ford parts bin won't go away without expense. This is why it's critical for us to find out the CID class boundaries for the new TransAm series coming along. It will tell us if the mod is dead or not.

 

Do you think it will change dramatically in just one season? The range is so wide as it is, racers could continue using the Cammer or the upcoming H/Boss, so that won't be a very predictive piece of information.

 

It's totally realistic to update the DOHC alloy 4.6 block and intake! With good rods that motor will rev happily past 7K The '01 Cobra revs happily to it's 6800 redline with I-beams -- the Cobra-R, even with H-beams and superb intake, is limited to 6600 rpm -- the 5.4's long stroke hamstrings it, imo.

 

I totally agree but keep getting smacked anytime I suggest on this forum that the current-gen modulars are doable in a new Boss. The 4.6 has huge potential, easily able to handle 600+ hp in stock form, but for longevity you can see what Saleen did with the PJ...honed bores with closer tolerances for the forged pistons, etc. Ford could continue to improve the modular by building an affordable 5.4 alloy DOHC, modified for wet sump and a normal starter.

 

What is it about the Ford GT engine block that leads to such a high price (>$3k last time I looked). The Niche line could build em. That sure would tick off all of the GT500 owners, but who wouldn't agree that a 7000-rpm redline 5.4 alloy Boss wouldn't be awesome?

[68fastback]

The alloy 5.0 Cammer TransAm engine is not realistic for a production Mustang due to it's cost and maintenance requirements.

That's the GrandAm engine, but, yeah, I agree... so how to get to a DOHC alloy Boss? Either spray-bore on a production DOCH alloy modular (like an updated '01 Cobra) or a stroker (like Saleen PJ, but then you have spend more in other places to permit revs -- no prob), or the FordGT motor (not likely to happen for the Boss).

 

There's nothing special about the 2001 Cobra's 4.6 alloy....it's the precursor of the 4.6 3V. Not a big difference. Same engine used in the 04 Mach1..

It's the only affordable DOHC alloy modular in the parts bin.

 

Do you think it will change dramatically in just one season? The range is so wide as it is, racers could continue using the Cammer or the upcoming H/Boss, so that won't be a very predictive piece of information..

Well, for the GrandAm, the 5.0 modular manracers are well rooted. But if the upcoming TransAm is 5.7 or 6.2 Ford will have to homologate an H/Boss in a mustang and the iconic car to do that in would be the Boss, imo.

 

I totally agree but keep getting smacked anytime I suggest on this forum that the current-gen modulars are doable in a new Boss. The 4.6 has huge potential, easily able to handle 600+ hp in stock form, but for longevity you can see what Saleen did with the PJ...honed bores with closer tolerances for the forged pistons, etc. Ford could continue to improve the modular by building an affordable 5.4 alloy DOHC, modified for wet sump and a normal starter..

I dont think Ford is geared up to produce them. The Ford GT blocks were all contracted. But I agree that a high-quality niche motor with forged pices is essential for the Boss.

 

What is it about the Ford GT engine block that leads to such a high price (>$3k last time I looked). The Niche line could build em. That sure would tick off all of the GT500 owners, but who wouldn't agree that a 7000-rpm redline 5.4 alloy Boss wouldn't be awesome?.

The Ford GT block is VERY beefy -- it's not just the 5.4 cast in alloy... It's probably pricey because it was contracted and it's manufacture is exquisitely well-done. Special equipment developed to machine it to very tight tolerances, etc. That's why I was thinking of the '01 Cobra motor as a base. The cooling passages need updating with what's been learned since. It needs to acept the Ford T heads, it's already set up for wet-sump and the drives in the right spot. The FordGT block could be converted/re-engineered for wet-sump, etc. (there are several companies that do that today) but it would be much more costly, imo.

[GooD 4lyf]

I'm guessing there's no other official word from Ford on this. I tried to prep up to buy the GT-500 but, got people paying 72k cash around here for it. Now, my next option would be the BOSS but, it's torturing me I can't find any more information about it. Anyone got any known rumor or official news on this besides what's already here

[MustangFanatic]

I'm in agreement with Dan and Moabman's comments - keep the Boss light on it's feet, more in the theme of the original Cobra Mustangs. Cobrafan, I've taken a stab an modding your build sheet - anyone else feel free to join in with their comments.

 

BUILD SHEET

 

SPECIFICATIONS

Make: Ford

Model: Mustang

Style: Boss

Base Price: $32,000 (est)

Drive Type: RWD

Curb Weight: 3,500 lbs (with fuel)

 

ENGINE

2009: 5.0L 3V All-Alloy Modular - 400 hp @ 6500 RPM; 380 lb/ft @ 4,000 RPM

2010: 5.8L 2V All-Alloy H/Boss - 425 hp @ 6500 RPM; 425 lb/ft @ 3,500 RPM

 

AXLE

Independent Rear Suspension with 8.8" Center section

Ring Gear & Pinion ratio: 3.73

Optional Ratio: 4.10 (dealer install)

 

CLUTCH

215mm cerametallic

 

TRANSMISSION

T56 6-speed

 

COMPONENTS

Shaker hood scoop (Optional)

 

WHEELS

19x10", P285/35ZR19 (front)

19x11", P295/35ZR19 (rear)

 

BRAKES

14" Brembo cross-drilled, 4-piston (front)

13" Brembo cross-drilled, 2-piston (rear)

 

STEERING

Power rack and pinion

 

SUSPENSION

Reverse-L independent MacPherson strut, 34-mm tubular stabilizer bar (front)

Independent rear suspension with coil springs 24-mm solid stabilizer bar (rear)

 

BODY CONSTRUCTION

Unitized welded steel body

Aluminum hood, front fenders and rear deck lid

Rear window slats (Optional)

 

INTERIOR

Front Airbags: Driver, Passenger

Side Airbags: None

Head Airbags: None

Antilock Brakes: Standard

Traction Control: N/A

Std Stereo with Single Disc CD

Lightweight Recaro Style Front Buckets

Rear Seat Delete Option

Mini-console

[68fastback]

Nice build sheet, Steve -- I likey!!! ;-)

[MustangFanatic]

Thanks Dan!! And I even forgot one...

 

2010 - 2012: Boss 429 (GT500 replacement) - 7.0L 2V H/Boss; 500 HP @ 6,500, 475 lb/ft @ 3,000

[68fastback]

Thanks Dan!! And I even forgot one...

 

2010 - 2012: Boss 429 (GT500 replacement) - 7.0L 2V H/Boss; 500 HP @ 6,500, 475 lb/ft @ 3,000

 

deal! :happy feet: ;-)

[C0braFan]

I'm guessing there's no other official word from Ford on this. I tried to prep up to buy the GT-500 but, got people paying 72k cash around here for it. Now, my next option would be the BOSS but, it's torturing me I can't find any more information about it. Anyone got any known rumor or official news on this besides what's already here

 

 

Hey Frozty, welcome to the board! Although I enjoy the speculation, it's kind of pointless (but no less fun). If you want a 400-ish Boss Mustang, my advice is to just build your own because Ford won't be forthcoming for at least two years, and even that is questionable. (It will be just our luck when Ford gives us a 3.5L twin turbo "Boss").

 

I'm gunning for that sweet 400 mark, without pulling the engine or bolting any boost onto it. Superchargers are great if: 1) You have $6000 burning a hole in your pocket, and 2) You don't really know anything about engines. But nothing, nothing, beats naturally aspirated power. Just ask your average Dodge or Chevy fan. However, what Ford has in it's favor are small-displacement engines with tons of mojo. It doesn't take much! I've only dropped about $1000 into upgrades, and it already goes much faster than a Camaro SS 5.7L, Pontiac GTO 6.0L, and Charger R/T.

[SVThopeful]

 

 

That car is a V6 that has a prototype Ford Racing V6 Exhaust, intake, and calibration for the V6 power pack.

[68fastback]

That car is a V6 that has a prototype Ford Racing V6 Exhast.

 

Hey, SVThopefull - WELCOME TO THE SITE!!!

 

Thanks for the info...

 

So that could also be a test mule for the new V6 too -- which I would expect would also be in the refresh. You didn't hear any turbo whine, did ya? ;-)

 

Dan

[mad103]

I'm gunning for that sweet 400 mark, without pulling the engine or bolting any boost onto it. Superchargers are great if: 1) You have $6000 burning a hole in your pocket, and 2) You don't really know anything about engines. But nothing, nothing, beats naturally aspirated power. Just ask your average Dodge or Chevy fan. However, what Ford has in it's favor are small-displacement engines with tons of mojo. It doesn't take much! I've only dropped about $1000 into upgrades, and it already goes much faster than a Camaro SS 5.7L, Pontiac GTO 6.0L, and Charger R/T.

 

Hey Cobrafan,

 

Just so that you know a stock GT already is way past an SS and R/T. GTO would be the only quicker car to beat with those $1000 in mods. Naturally aspirated is great but there is nothing, nothing, like the whine of a supercharger. True, Ford could do a lot more to their engines to naturally gain A LOT more hp but we are not that behind when you consider the SS has a 5.7L with a little over ....i believe 325-335hp when Mustang GT and their 4.6 do 300hp. Charger RT.....well....dont know nor care much about them lol.

[SVThopeful]

Hey, SVThopefull - WELCOME TO THE SITE!!!

 

Thanks for the info...

 

So that could also be a test mule for the new V6 too -- which I would expect would also be in the refresh. You didn't hear any turbo whine, did ya? ;-)

 

Dan

 

Thanks.

 

No turbo, that car has a prototype FRPP V6 Exhaust, intake, and calibration for the V6 Power Pack. It has about 250hp.

[C0braFan]

Thanks.

 

No turbo, that car has a prototype FRPP V6 Exhaust, intake, and calibration for the V6 Power Pack. It has about 250hp.

 

 

I always thought S-A had a winner with the CS6, packing a Paxton and upwards of 350hp. In early 2005, I was interested in building one, but S-A had supply problems and backed out of their promise of official SAAC recognition. This was way before the GT500 or S-GT were announced. But all that aside, a 350hp, 280 lb/ft V6 would be as nimble as a 350Z. Unfortunately, that requires a $5000 supercharger.

 

Don't know if I'd really object to a car like that. But it just comes back to the same old thing with Ford...adding boost rather than internal engineering to make power. I appreciate Mad103's point, but on the contrary, there's nothing like N/A power. I think it's incredibly impressive that the little 4.6 3V can easily make 400 hp.

 

If you look at the trends, what Ford has been doing...where is Ford going next? The 4.6 DOHC alloy was a winner. The 4.6 3V alloy is a huge success. Then what? The 5.4 DOHC iron has been ruled out. There's no alternative. We have to just wait for the alloy Hurricane. It will be a couple years.

 

Just so that you know a stock GT already is way past an SS and R/T.

 

Comparing a stock Camaro SS (alloy 5.7L LS1 320hp 350 lb/ft) with a stock Mustang GT (300hp 320 lb/ft), you will get owned with a stock engine. You just can't argue with that kind of torque. Would love to have that 6-speed...

 

Stock 2006 GTO (alloy 6.0L LS2 400hp 400 lb/ft) will also own a stock Mustang GT without breaking a sweat. And it comes with a 6-speed.

 

Stock 2007 Charger R/T (5.7L 340 hp 390 lb/ft) gives us a serious challenge but weight holds it back. Going a step further, the Daytona edition bumps it up to 350 hp. And this engine has DoD and VVT.

 

Stock Charger SRT has a 6.1L worth 425 hp and 420 lb/ft.

 

 

Look, we love our Fords, but look at the facts. What's the problem? In my opinion, Ford needs a marquee car at the high end, so those R&D dollars will trickle down to the consumer models. GM has a good system in place. The Corvette receives all new technology, and every couple years that percolates down to the consumer performance cars. The LS1 and LS2 were both alloy Corvette engines. Dodge does the same thing. Although the Viper engine is too much for an affordable consumer car, the technology finds it way down in the R/T and SRT models.

 

Every company has a marquee car, because it just makes sense...let the wealthy enthusiasts pay for R&D, then apply that to the lesser models. But what is Ford's position on this crucial strategy? The Ford GT is too over the top, and the T-Bird was too mediocre. There were two possibilities for Ford to build it's own "Corvette", and instead went for too much or too little. The T-Bird should have been our Corvette. All new tech put into the T-Bird program could have worked it's way down every year or two into the Mustang and other models. The T-Bird had phenomenal potential... With a better body design, and Ford's latest-gen engines, it would have been Ford's own Corvette.

 

Without that marquee car at the top of Ford's performance offerings, being the test mule for engines such as an alloy 6.2L H/Boss (which is too dicey to put into mass production right away) we will never see a decent, lightweight 400hp Boss Mustang. End of story.

[68fastback]

CobraFan, I think your logic is good. The marquee car is a miss for Ford and has been for along time now.

 

The FordGT, if done in volume, would have costs like the 'vette -- essentially half of what they were. But there's no way to get to volume all at once. Hence the value having and agradually improving/refining a state-of-the-art marquee car, the 'vette being the poster child of that business process done right. Maybe Ford will see this light someday.

 

===

 

CVThopefull, that almost certainly says that'd be an '09 mustang V6, imo... a last hurrah for the 4.0 before the refresh replaces it with the outstanding new 3.5 V6. That also seems toreconfirm, in a roundabout way, that MY'10 is the refresh, even if an early variant (Boss?) might debut in April'09 (a hot rumor).

 

Make you then wonder whether Ford will extend the GT500 into MY'09 and do a tape&sticker Mach (my bet) or have the Mach parallel the GT500 (historically correct) in 'MY'09. Another option would be have the Mach carry the base GT500 powertrain as a stripped-down/cheaper version in parallel or replacing the GT500 in MY'09 until the refresh chassis mods support the new engines (3.5V6 and H/Boss) and in who-knows what NA/SC variations.

 

Also, if Ford wants to kep the 'catbird' seat and flinch, they need to have big plans in my'10 rather than play the big cards in my'09 and have GM/DCX trump them in their second go-round. I think Ford will be smarter than that, even if it's painfull in the interim and driving us nuts <lol>

 

Sure hope so.

 

Dan

[MustangFanatic]

Found this posted over on jalopnik's site, not very revealing but given the dearth of Boss info, thought I would post. Could this be a possible powertrain development mule? Other thoughts?

 

http://jalopnik.com/cars/spy-photos/2010-f...tted-286782.php