What Actually Causes The Car To Get Sideways???

[motorjock205]

2012 GT500, Goodyear G2 Tires and cold mornings...takes almost nothing to spin the tires I know, but this morning on my way to work, tires should have been warmed up fair enough since I'd been on the road for 15 minutes of highway travel...had to stop at a light and when I took off, started accelerating as normal, all of a sudden, sideways...it sure gets your attention for sure! No ice on the road although it was 29 degrees F. I know the Goodyear tires are not winter tires, but can't really afford to have two sets of tires and wheels available either right now...Tires are still in great shape, two new rears when I bought the car a couple of months ago...Just wondering what it is that actually causes the car to get sideways instead of staying straight...traction control was on and not disengaged...any ideas or thoughts?

[mark.barton]

2012 GT500, Goodyear G2 Tires and cold mornings...takes almost nothing to spin the tires I know, but this morning on my way to work, tires should have been warmed up fair enough since I'd been on the road for 15 minutes of highway travel...had to stop at a light and when I took off, started accelerating as normal, all of a sudden, sideways...it sure gets your attention for sure! No ice on the road although it was 29 degrees F. I know the Goodyear tires are not winter tires, but can't really afford to have two sets of tires and wheels available either right now...Tires are still in great shape, two new rears when I bought the car a couple of months ago...Just wondering what it is that actually causes the car to get sideways instead of staying straight...traction control was on and not disengaged...any ideas or thoughts?

The Goodyears, like all summer performance tires, are not to be driven in temperatures anywhere near freezing (it's in the owners manual) and 15 minutes of highway driving won't even come close to bringing these tires up to temp. Traction control can only do so much with 550 HP and cold, rock hard tires. The sideways part can be as simple as the crown of the road and the amount of torque these cars produce.

 

If you have to drive it, just be careful.

 

Mark

[Don Johnston]

Get some good winter or all season performance grade tires before you hurt yourself, your car or someone else. Stay safe out there!

[twobjshelbys]

2012 GT500, Goodyear G2 Tires and cold mornings...takes almost nothing to spin the tires I know, but this morning on my way to work, tires should have been warmed up fair enough since I'd been on the road for 15 minutes of highway travel...had to stop at a light and when I took off, started accelerating as normal, all of a sudden, sideways...it sure gets your attention for sure! No ice on the road although it was 29 degrees F. I know the Goodyear tires are not winter tires, but can't really afford to have two sets of tires and wheels available either right now...Tires are still in great shape, two new rears when I bought the car a couple of months ago...Just wondering what it is that actually causes the car to get sideways instead of staying straight...traction control was on and not disengaged...any ideas or thoughts?

Well, to answer the technical part of the question the event that happened to you is called oversteer. It is caused when the rear tires lose traction and the rear end starts to drift.

 

The cause of the oversteer on the high performance tires is lack of grip at low temperatures. With cold pavement as you describe warming the tires by driving will not overcome the lack of traction.

 

Two events are common causes of oversteer. One is sudden acceleration when the tire cannot track the pavement. Done on purpose the result is a burnout (and often a cookie, as neither my Cobra nor the GT can maintain a straight line rear end loss of traction). But when you don't expect it is usually accompanied by the involuntary puckering of certain muscles

 

Another cause of oversteer is sudden deceleration where engine braking causes the tires to lose traction. Often called Lift Off Oversteer and Trailing Throttle Oversteer. It can also happen when you downshift from a higher gear to a lower gear and engine RMPs don't match the wheels causing them to "brake". Since this most often happens when attempting to match RPMs in a turn and the car is already tending to an outside turn, the sideways manuever is almost guaranteed!!! Practiced well, it is a way to do a U-turn on a highway (usually in a movie) but it is a super-pucker move if not planned. I actually use it to turn at the bottom of the street in the snow!!! (But in my truck!)

 

The owners manual even has a warning!!! (You did read it, right?) It has been discussed here many times.

 

Driving classes with skid pad will train you what to do, but basically you want to maintain your eyes looking in the direction you want to go. Note that that direction might not be the direction you were going originally!!! And counter intuitive as it is, you don't want to let up on the gas but rather hit the accelerator (slightly). Letting up on the gas causes the nose to squat and the rear to lighten. Accelerating causes weight to transfer to the rear.

 

Besides all season tires, another solution, and the one I used, is to get tires that are "stickier". My Ford GT started out with Goodyear F1s and based on my experience with the Shelby GT and the Cobra I switched to Bridgestones (the tires were originally used on the Ferrari Enzo). They don't last long because they are so soft. But Note even these get squirrelly in cold weather when tire temperature cannot overcome pavement temp.

 

Be Careful Out There!!!

[Madlock]

To echo what's already been stated, as half-assed a solution the F-1 G: 2s may be for year-round driving in some climes, the real solution is not to drive in conditions unsuited to their design.

[1 Alibi 2]

The paperwork stated not recommended for driving below 40*....................but they are called " summer " tires for a reason..

.

[ShelbyKR664]

I took my KR out for a spin yesterday "literally". The temp was low 40's. they never warmed up. I am waiting for my 20" Alcoa's to put some good all season tires on them.

[ViperNC]

Agree with comments above. Getting different tires is a must. The Goodyear tires are hockey pucks below 50 degrees. Other performance tires do better.

[awakeinAZ]

It's been stated here that lower temps and those tires can put you in a bad situation quickly. Recommend change to Pirelli on same wheels.

[yell03]

I wouldn't mind the spinning if it tracked straight, but when the tail kicks out it is downright scary.

I ditched my Goodyear F1s and went with Michelin Pilot A/S 3s for the winter.

Even in warm weather they are much better than the Goodyears.

 

Right now with temps in the 20s and 30s they help, but nothing is going to control 600rwhp when the streets are this cold.

 

It will hook in 70 degree temps in 2nd gear with the A/S 3s.

 

I am sure there are suspension mods you can do to help it track straighter when it spins so it doesn't kick out sideways.

[Torch40]

It's been stated here that lower temps and those tires can put you in a bad situation quickly. Recommend change to Pirelli on same wheels.

Which Pirellis? The ones I had on my 40th were ice skates in the summer.

[motorjock205]

Thanks guys...Yes, I did read the owner's manual, and I am very aware that the Goodyear tires are not recommended for winter driving, but at the moment, don't have the funds or the space to keep two sets of tires and wheels...Yeah, the crown of the road was probably what caused my kick out now that I think about it. I'm still trying to get used to the power of the 2012 over what the 2007 had...this car just seems to be a LOT more than the 07 was...I can't imagine really needing more horsepower, although we all want more...First problem I see is getting all the power to the ground in optimal conditions...

 

Anyway, thanks again...I'll be careful when it's cold out here...doesn't happen all that much, but I still have to drive her to work every day...

[redwingone]

just my 02 cents but will reducing the tire pressures give a little more traction??

[Boidster]

just my 02 cents but will reducing the tire pressures give a little more traction??

Not enough to matter and it may make things worse. These tires are so low-profile, and rock-hard when cold, that I don't think you'll get much if any additional traction from the low PSI trick. Unless they've recently been filled, they probably already read a few PSI low just due to cold temps.

 

Within the first 1,000 miles on my new GT500 I sold the Goodyears and switched to all-season performance tires year-round. They're better than the Goodyears at all temperatures, IMO. Maybe on a hot track day the G2s would shine, but I did not like them no sir. No need for two sets of tires until/unless I start hitting the track.

[yosemiddysam]

_{Mine does it on a daily basis......I have just gotten used to it.}

[Doug_GT350]

_{Mine does it on a daily basis......I have just gotten used to it.}

Fun, isn't it!!!

 

quote from my wife..... "Your car was wiggling when you sped up to pass that car....."

[William Rodgers]

I went through this last year, I do not drive my car in the cold often at all, but one day last year it was around 40 and Sunny in the winter which is warm up my way, there was not salt or sand on the road so I decided to take it for a spin. About 5 miles in I was at a light and decided when I shifted into second to hit the gas, BIG mistake, I nearly hit the curb on the other side of the road, then I corrected to much and almost hit the curb on my side, finally I straightened it out. Thankfully no one was coming the other way otherwise I would have crashed big time. There were a ton of cars behind me at the light, I bet they were wondering what the hell I was doing. Traction control did nothing, not sure why, to much power I guess. I took my foot off the gas right away but the momentum was already going. To this day I do not know how I did not crash, I honestly must have missed the curb by an inch or less. By the way it was 2 lanes coming the other way as well, that tells you how far it went before I hooked up enough to bring it back.

 

Lesson learned for me that day, I drive like Grandpa in all cold weather now.

[ViperNC]

I think the traction control in our cars is pretty unreliable.

[Madlock]

Obscene torque + more hook than traction + solid axle + LSD + ANY degree of non-longitudinal orientation = Sideways.

 

Lather, rinse and repeat.

[thewheelman]

"You see, when you were driving open wheel, the cars weighed half as much and the tires were twice as wide, but now the car weighs twice as much and the tires are half as wide." Harry Hogge, Days of Thunder, 1990

[yosemiddysam]

"You see, when you were driving open wheel, the cars weighed half as much and the tires were twice as wide, but now the car weighs twice as much and the tires are half as wide." Harry Hogge, Days of Thunder, 1990

LMAO....I recognised that as soon as I started reading it. Good one!!!

[Roush GR40]

See TSB from Goodyear below...I wouldn't be driving on these tires below 40 degrees. Go get yourself a extra set of wheels for winter use....perhaps from a 2007 - 2010 Shelby.

 

PSB #2011-10

TO: Goodyear Contract Dealers, Goodyear Canada Inc. Dealers, Goodyear Company Owned Stores

Eagle F1 Supercar G:2 Summer Tires Not Recommended for Winter Use

Goodyear F1 Supercar G:2’s are D.O.T. approved ultra high performance summer tires with track capability. The rubber used in these tires loses flexibility and may develop surface cracks in the tire tread/shoulder area at colder temperatures. Goodyear does not recommend using these high performance summer tires when temperatures drop to approximately 40 deg F (5 deg C) or below, or in snow/ice conditions.


Tire Storage

Follow the general tire storage recommendations in Product Service Bulletin 2010-21, Proper Procedures for the Storage of Tires. Further, it is recommended for these tires to be stored indoors at temperatures above 20 deg F (-7 deg C) when not in use. If the tires have been subject to 20 deg F (-7 deg C) or less, let them warm up in a heated space to at least 40 deg F for 24 hours or more before installation or driving the vehicle. Inflate the tires only after they have been warmed above 40 deg F (5 deg C). Do not place tires near heaters or heating devices used to warm the room where the tires are stored. Do not apply heat or blow heated air directly on the tires. Always inspect tires before use after storage periods as outlined in the Proper Procedures for the Storage of Tires bulletin.
THE GOODYEAR TIRE & RUBBER COMPANY, GOODYEAR CANADA INC.
PRODUCT SERVICE DEPARTMENT

[motorjock205]

Trust me, I'd love to be able to afford a new set of tires/wheels for the winter time, but just can't do it right now...I'm with Carnut12 on driving like a grandpa now when the temps drop...

[Roush GR40]

Re-read the TSB...tires can crack.

[ilmor]

Be extremely careful with this "getting sideways". A friend of mine just lost two of his friends due to this. They got sideways and then got t-boned by an oncoming car. Both were killed instantly by the impact. Cold, slippery weather on hi-performance tires.

[Doug_GT350]

Be extremely careful with this "getting sideways". A friend of mine just lost two of his friends due to this. They got sideways and then got t-boned by an oncoming car. Both were killed instantly by the impact. Cold, slippery weather on hi-performance tires.

sorry to hear Bob. It's way too easy to forget what can happen! One of the main reasons I've decided to slow down. I love the twisty turneys but those hidden driveways pose a grave threat.

[rdrawkit]

Well I feel better now cause I thought I forgot how to drive.. I've had my 08 since Sept 07 and now have over 59000kms plus high 11's 1/4 runs... Last August I eased out of 1st into 2nd then very hard into 3rd.. Car went left so fast and hard I bounced off the cube hit a chain linked fence and ended on the front lot of a dealership.... What a mess and total embarassement... Had to tow car and $3000 later I parked her for a month... Glad to hear that it wasn't all my fault... Nitto tires all around on a hot August day.... Thanks for sharing I feel better...

[TRMach1]

I got burned bad by this "jumping sideways" on acceleration last spring! Hit the concrete median with the drivers side wheels, tore the stock rims up pretty good and bent the stock panhard bar into a "U" shape, and moved the rear end over a good inch toward the passenger side! OUCH! Now I'm no stranger to high horsepower cars. I came from a 2003 Mach 1 with 657rwhp, and that bad boy would shred tires, but it always tracked straight down the road. This jumping suddenly to the left with such force that it yanks the steering wheel right out of your hands is a whole new experience for me.

 

End result was new wheels and tires, I opted for Micky Thompson Street Comp tires in the stock staggered configuration, a new Whiteline fully adjustable panhard bar and support bracket, and a Swarr Bar rear axle brace. With those modifications done, now when I nail this sucker, I know exactly where it's going to go, STRAIGHT!!