2011 MT82 gearbox failure - Installing Tremec Magnum XL

[MMcGuirk]

At 33K miles, the input shaft of my MT82 Chinese Getrag 6 spd let go.

 

In researching the issue, I discovered that the MT82 is only rated for 370 lb ft of torque. Hardly adequate for a GT350 with 600 lb ft! Rather than mess with a questionable warranty claim (624HP 350 buyers signed a waiver on the powertrain warranty) and let some unknown dealership tech take my car apart, I have decided to take matters into my own hands and install the king kong of 6 spds - the Tremec Magnum XL.

 

My research led me to Bruce Couture at Modern Driveline in Caldwell, Idaho(http://moderndriveline.com/index.html). Bruce is a long time Shelby/Mustang enthusiast and is responsible for the development of the Magnum XL kit and it being available for S197 owners. These kits can be tailored to any S197 Mustang or Shelby from 2005 to present. This transmission is the strongest 6 spd on the market - rated at 700 lb ft. An added benefit is that it features a direct attach internal shifter, getting rid of the vague feel of the external linkage.

 

The kit comprises of the Tremec Magnum XL (two gear ratio choices - wide and close ratio), shifter, bell housing, flywheel, trans mount, McLeod RST twin disc clutch, custom Dynatech 3.5" aluminum driveshaft, all the fasteners, fluids and a complete set of instructions. A brief conversation with Bruce proved to inspire confidence that I had chosen the right vendor. My kit arrived complete and on time as promised.

 

My plan is to complete the install this weekend and chronicle the installation in this thread. This is the biggest mod undertaking I will have done since the Whipple install on my 06 Limer in 2008. Stay tuned for updates......

Edited October 23, 2013 by MMcGuirk

[Jer]

At 33K miles, the input shaft of my MT82 Chinese Getrag 6 spd let go.

 

In researching the issue, I discovered that the MT82 is only rated for 370 lb ft of torque. Hardly adequate for a GT350 with 600 lb ft! Rather than mess with a questionable warranty claim (624HP 350 buyers signed a waiver on the powertrain warranty) and let some unknown dealership tech take my car apart, I have decided to take matters into my own hands and install the king kong of 6 spds - the Tremec Magnum XL.

 

My research led me to Bruce Couture at Modern Driveline in Caldwell, Idaho(http://moderndriveline.com/index.html). Bruce is a long time Shelby/Mustang enthusiast and is responsible for the development of the Magnum XL kit and it being available for S197 owners. These kits can be tailored to any S197 Mustang or Shelby form 2005 to present. This transmission is the strongest 6 spd on the market - rated at 700 lb ft. An added benefit is that it features a direct attach internal shifter, getting rid of the vague feel of the external linkage.

 

The kit comprises of the Tremec Magnum XL (two gear ratio choices - wide and close ratio), shifter, bell housing, flywheel, trans mount, McLeod RST twin disc clutch, custom Dynatech 3.5" aluminum driveshaft, all the fasteners, fluids and a complete set of instructions. A brief conversation with Bruce proved to inspire confidence that I had chosen the right vendor. My kit arrived complete and on time as promised.

 

My plan is to complete the install this weekend and chronicle the installation in this thread. This is the biggest mod undertaking I will have done since the Whipple install on my 06 Limer in 2008. Stay tuned for updates......

 

 

 

Bruce is a good guy. I recommend him all the time.

 

 

Jer

[mikeljgt500kr]

Sounds like a bad failure, I do hope this Chinese one is not the same tranny that is in my 2013 GT350 624 HP.

[NJPat]

MICHAEL-

 

Alex Mackenzie did the same swap in my GT350 right before the Bash

 

works great.

 

he has all the dis-assembly and install photos in a photobucket account.

 

only snag was the "converter" for the speedo assembly - but that was easily fixed

 

suggest you give him a call as he may have a few "pointers" as he's done a few of these swaps already

 

if you can't reach him send me a PM or give me a ring and i'll try to find the photobucket info

 

good luck

 

Pat

[MMcGuirk]

Sounds like a bad failure, I do hope this Chinese one is not the same tranny that is in my 2013 GT350 624 HP.

 

Mike

 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have the same POS transmission!

 

If you start stalking the Mustang and Boss forums, you will get a great education on the MT82 and all it's shortcomings and failures. In fact, there is a class action suit against Ford on this subject.

 

I track my car and that definitely accelerates the MT82 demise. From what I understand, trans failures are just a matter of time.

 

Sorry,

 

Michael

[MMcGuirk]

MICHAEL-

 

Alex Mackenzie did the same swap in my GT350 right before the Bash

 

works great.

 

he has all the dis-assembly and install photos in a photobucket account.

 

only snag was the "converter" for the speedo assembly - but that was easily fixed

 

suggest you give him a call as he may have a few "pointers" as he's done a few of these swaps already

 

if you can't reach him send me a PM or give me a ring and i'll try to find the photobucket info

 

good luck

 

Pat

Hi Pat

 

Thanks, I consulted Alex on this already. I know that he did yours and his Boss 302.

 

I am looking forward to the weekend

 

regards,

 

Michael

[HARALD KELLEY]

She will be better than new. Looking forward to the install

[JT93]

 

Mike

 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have the same POS transmission!

 

If you start stalking the Mustang and Boss forums, you will get a great education on the MT82 and all it's shortcomings and failures. In fact, there is a class action suit against Ford on this subject.

 

I track my car and that definitely accelerates the MT82 demise. From what I understand, trans failures are just a matter of time.

 

Sorry,

 

Michael

 

Do you have any info on the class action suit? I've got a buddy you just had the trans in his boss let go. He'd be interested in what's going on.

[lbj]

I am interested in the details of your installation.

 

There are a couple guys over at allfordmustangs in the 2011+ GT Tech section that have done this in the past month and posted about it.

One is supercharged and one is not.

The guy with the normal GT left his 3:31 rear gears in place and says he needs to go to 3:73 to get the umph back because of the taller gears in the Tremec.

The guy with the SC already had :3:73s like you have. He likes the taller gears and says 1st gear is a lot more useful for him now.

 

Good luck and can't blame you for making the switch.

Edited October 24, 2013 by lbj

[MMcGuirk]

 

Do you have any info on the class action suit? I've got a buddy you just had the trans in his boss let go. He'd be interested in what's going on.

Have him google MT82 class action lawsuit, there are a ton of hits

[mikeljgt500kr]

 

Mike

 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you have the same POS transmission!

 

If you start stalking the Mustang and Boss forums, you will get a great education on the MT82 and all it's shortcomings and failures. In fact, there is a class action suit against Ford on this subject.

 

I track my car and that definitely accelerates the MT82 demise. From what I understand, trans failures are just a matter of time.

 

Sorry,

 

Michael

Crap! Now Ford is putting Chinese junk in their cars? Ford and SVT just went down many notches in my mind, I guess they put the same POS Chinese junk in the GT 500 and thus, Super Snakes, Shelby 1000s, etc?

[lbj]

Nope, those have the Tremecs, made in Mexico.

They are rated for higher torque, the gearing is taller and they are somewhat better than the MT82s in an overall sense.

But they are not entirely perfect either.

 

Eventually, i may be interested in going the Tremec Magnum XL route, and at the time time, switch my 3:73s to 3:90s, maybe.

 

I'm anxiously wating for MMcGirk's review of the performance levels of his Coyote-Tremec-3:73 combo before making any decisions.

 

I've seen some numbers and going to the 3:90s might get one closer to the overall final drive ratios we have now with the Coyote-MT82-3:73 combo.

I don't even know who makes the 3:90s but they do exist.

Edited October 25, 2013 by lbj

[NJPat]

You really don't need anything more than 3.73 if you have the supercharger

 

The magnum xl with 3.73 rear gears is just about perfect

[mikeljgt500kr]

I'm not sure a Mexican Tremec is any better than the Chinese junk, sounds like the XL is the way to go, assuming they are not made in Brasil, Bulgaria, or some other low quality place....

[MMcGuirk]

 

Update -

 

Started yesterday, dropped the front exhaust, removed drive shaft, transmission, stock clutch, pressure plate and flywheel.

 

The exhaust was a bitch, as SAI had tack welded all the clamps. The starter was incredibly hard to remove, but once done the trans came out with ease.

 

Stock clutch and pressure plate remarkably showed very little wear. The MT 82 input shaft has about 1/4 inch of play!

 

 

[MMcGuirk]

Next, we installed a new, lightened steel flywheel to match the new twin disc diameter, the McLeod RST clutch and pressure plate and the new Quick time bellhousing. Separating the bell housing from the trans make things easier to lift and install.

 

We reinstalled the starter - it was easier to put back in.

 

Tomorrow the trans - stay tuned

 

 

 

[lbj]

While I am not a do it yourselfer for this kind of project, the nuances and changes you are doing is of great interest to me for the future.

 

How much lighter is the new flywheel from your old one?

 

When you are finished, and have done no other mods other than the transmission/clutch/driveshaft changes, I will be most interested in the performance changes.

 

Will it be the same? Will it be quicker? Will it be slightly slower?

Will a rear end change be needed to compensate for the taller geared transmission?

 

So many questions we all will read answers to soon.

 

Thanks for your thread.

Edited October 27, 2013 by lbj

[MMcGuirk]

While I am not a do it yourselfer for this kind of project, the nuances and changes you are doing is of great interest to me for the future.

 

How much lighter is the new flywheel from your old one?

 

When you are finished, and have done no other mods other than the transmission/clutch/driveshaft changes, I will be most interested in the performance changes.

 

Will it be the same? Will it be quicker? Will it be slightly slower?

Will a rear end change be needed to compensate for the taller geared transmission?

 

So many questions we all will read answers to soon.

 

Thanks for your thread.

 

Fly wheel is 5-8lbs lighter. Bell housing is heavier, drive shaft is 25 lbs lighter. I think all this will even it's self out.

 

With an MT 82, 1st and 2nd are basically useless except for spinning the tires - I have 715 crank HP. The Tremec's ratio's will allow for more drive-ability.

 

I will post my impressions after the road test.

[NJPat]

Michael-

 

I think that you will be pleasantly surprised

 

but i'm very interested in what you think of the revised ratios, and the shifter/trans feel

 

Pat

[lbj]

I know the Tremecs and their taller gearing works well on the 600+ foot pounds of torque GT500s.

 

But we SC Coyote guys, even pushing things a bit are doing about 500 foot pounds max.

This is where I'll be interested in the perfomance of the Tremec with 3:73 rear gears.

 

If it works out that it's just as quick as with the MT82, great.

If not, I imagine it would be easily remedied by a rear gear swap.

Edited October 27, 2013 by lbj

[NJPat]

i think it will work well for him given his HP numbers

 

and getting the Coyote to GT500-like HP/Torque numbers can be accomplished (attached)

 

[lbj]

I would worry with those numbers in a Coyote with stock internals at the wheel at sea level.

I have a hard time believing it would last.

 

Then again, I'm doing SAE 580HP and 485 foot pounds, but I'm at 5,000ft above sea level and the numbers are lower.

 

An Aluminator?

Then heck yeah.

 

But hey, I'm no expert and still learning, so no one should pay attention to me.

 

That said, I am riveted to what MMcGuirk is doing and await his observations about performance.

1st hand information is always a good thing, everything else is just conjecture on my part.

 

I think as time goes by, more than a few of us will need to go this Tremec route.

Edited October 27, 2013 by lbj

[mikeljgt500kr]

After all this chatter, I am now wondering why it is that SAI, who changes everything about the cars from Ford, leaves trashy trannys in the cars? Mexican Tremecs? Chinese junk? Why doesn't SAI offer proper upgrades on this just like the suspension, brakes, driveshafts, blowers, interiors, etc? Seems like they are really missing the boat to get rid of the junk Ford puts on these cars.

Edited October 28, 2013 by mikeljgt500kr

[lbj]

I don't think anyone else makes trannys for our cars, just Tremecs and MT82s.

 

I guess Borg Warner used to be quality and I suppose could make something maybe, but it would be cost prohibitive because the numbers just aren't there.

The Getrag is a solid design, and could be beefed up, however, it's the execution/production quality control that's bad IMO.

 

Personally, I would rather have paid a couple thousand dollars more at purchase time for a beefed up German or American made MT82, but that's just me.

Many wouldn't want to pay more, so that's just me, and about everyone else on this board.

Edited October 28, 2013 by lbj

[mikeljgt500kr]

I understand, but if the Chinese thing that the OP referenced falls apart quickly in our cars for no good reason except poor quality materials and construction, shouldn't we be given a choice? After all, SAI is in business to make money, and replacing these poor quality trannys that Ford sticks in these great cars, since they don't seem to care about quality, would seem to be a public service too!

[Don Johnston]

+1

 

What tranny is in the Shelby 1000 that handles 1200HP and major torque? Any tranny that fits in a Mustang GT500 should fit in a GT350. I would expect some change to the input shaft, bell housing, etc. for the 5.0. It should have been offered as a highly recommended option in conjunction with the 7624 HP option. What tranny is there from Ford Racing/SVT that is set up to handle high horsepower options?

[MMcGuirk]

I would worry with those numbers in a Coyote with stock internals at the wheel at sea level.

I have a hard time believing it would last.

 

Then again, I'm doing SAE 580HP and 485 foot pounds, but I'm at 5,000ft above sea level and the numbers are lower.

 

An Aluminator?

Then heck yeah.

 

But hey, I'm no expert and still learning, so no one should pay attention to me.

 

That said, I am riveted to what MMcGuirk is doing and await his observations about performance.

1st hand information is always a good thing, everything else is just conjecture on my part.

 

I think as time goes by, more than a few of us will need to go this Tremec route.

 

It is all in the tune.....everyone told me that my FRPP 550 HO Whipple 3V would blow up in an instant - still going strong at 85k miles (a lot of them around a road course)

 

My Coyote and my 3V were both tuned by AED in Cameron Park Ca. Best $500.00 you will ever spend.

[MMcGuirk]

After all this chatter, I am now wondering why it is that SAI, who changes everything about the cars from Ford, leaves trashy trannys in the cars? Mexican Tremecs? Chinese junk? Why doesn't SAI offer proper upgrades on this just like the suspension, brakes, driveshafts, blowers, interiors, etc? Seems like they are really missing the boat to get rid of the junk Ford puts on these cars.

Mike, where products are assembled - Mexico or China is not a reflection on their quality. We use contract manufactures in Mexico and China and our products have exemplarily quality. I should not have inferred the the MT82 is of less quality because it is made in China.

 

I believe the issues with this gearbox have more to do with the fact that it is under specified, even for a stock 5.0. I think the Ford bean counters had a hand in this.

 

The Tremec I am installing is the same trans used in the Boss 302 S, Grand AM and Challenge cars (also Vipers)

 

SAI does offer clutch, transmission and rear upgrades through the Speed Shop. Quite a few of us had Torsens and stronger axles installed prior to delivery.

[MMcGuirk]

+1

 

What tranny is in the Shelby 1000 that handles 1200HP and major torque? Any tranny that fits in a Mustang GT500 should fit in a GT350. I would expect some change to the input shaft, bell housing, etc. for the 5.0. It should have been offered as a highly recommended option in conjunction with the 7624 HP option. What tranny is there from Ford Racing/SVT that is set up to handle high horsepower options?

Unless an upgrade is specified, the 1000 uses the stock GT500 Tremec OEM transmission rated at 600 lb ft. They do upgrade the clutch standard.

[mikeljgt500kr]

I have very little respect for Chinese and Mexican "craftsmen", they are just not there in terms of quality workmanship like US, Germany, etc., just a lack of education and ambition. Just look at the Mexican Caddys or the Chinese anythings, just poor workmanship and QC even if they get good parts, they can't handle it, they don't know how to do that in those places. I got the stronger axles, Torsens, etc. but they ignored the tranny. I am wondering if HyperStangs could fix my GT350, with a real Tremec XL so I can not worry about tranny failure on the routine highway trips, like the Texas 1000 I am going on next week? Jeff, can you do this??