jsimmons Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I have developed a serious urge to put a 351w bored/stroked to 427ci into a 2010-2012 Mustang... I know about how much it's gonna cost ($12k for the engine counting pulley set and dual-quad intake, $4k for the trans). I estimate another $5-6k for "sundries". I can jack the price down by 3K if I use a more mildly stroked 351w... The only real sticking point is how to connect the gas pedal to the carbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUFDRAFT Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Lets Do This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Lets Do This! The easy part is gathering the parts list. The hard part is coming up with the cash. Also, the secret to finishing a project like this is doing it in as timely a fashion as possible. Time is actually more of an enemy than money. I need a sponsor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 After some initial research, the motor alone will run about $12k, and that's AFTER backing off to a 347 making 455hp/420lbft at the flywheel. That includes: - Partially undressed base long block, (it comes with an intake, oil pan, valve covers, and a timing chain cover, but nothing else) - Appropriate oil pan for the application - Prettier valve covers with billet breathers - Edlebrock air-gap dual quad intake with a pair of 500 cfm Performer carbs - Complete MSD ignition system (distributor, module, coil and wires) - Starter - Custom headers (hopefully can get away with off-the-shelf parts, but assuming the worst) - Motor mounts - Spark plugs - Dip stick - Fuel pump block-off plate - March pulley set (alt/pwr st/ac) - 10% of the cost of the parts is estimated for shipping and is included in the $12k estimate I haven't done a detailed estimate yet, but the transmission will be $5500 (counting shipping). I also have to try to calculate the cost of outfitting and wiring an entirely new instrument cluster, finding a set of pedals (my car is currently an automatic), and figuring out fuel delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted October 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Well, I went ahead and listed all of the parts I think I'm gonna need, along with their current prices. http://paddedwall.org/2012mustang/PushrodSwap.aspx It ended up being right about where I thought it would be. Building the long block myself would save me any money, so I simply didn't list that as an option (besides, I have enough other crap to screw up without worrying bout the motor too. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted October 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 After a couple of weeks of trying to find this again, I finally found the youtube video I saw more than a year ago. It's a 2006 V6 where they swapped in a SBF 460 stroker with dual quads. The car was driven from the dealer's lot to the shop that made the swap. THAT'S what I want to do, albeit with a 347 instead of a 460... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted November 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 SWMBO has allotted me $250 to start a bank account dedicated to this engine swap idea (I'm 1% closer to doing it in terms of money). I won't be buying any parts until I have 75% of the necessary funds (about $19k). If anyone here needs some custom software/website written, let's talk (I've been a programmer for over 30 years). I'm going to essentially take side jobs to help fund this project. I write code in C# for Windows, and have done the following in a multitude of industries: Windows desktop apps (console, Windows Forms, WPF, and Windows Services) Web sites with ASP.Net or Silverlight SQL (not a DBA, but reasonably competent) If you need development work, PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted December 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 SantaHoney was good to me - $1400 for xmas. I also got about $425 in Amazon gift cards (that'll almost pay for the distributor/coil/ignition module) - I'm currently at 9.73% of my $25k goal. I'm currently doing a web site for a local Mustang web site in exchange for labor when it comes time to install the motor. I've also settled on a 408 instead of a 347. I figure it will give me a lot more juice for about $1000 more than a 347, with a little room to grow. I'm expecting 500+ hp and > 500lbft of torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky Posted December 25, 2013 Report Share Posted December 25, 2013 Keep us posted on your project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 A strategy has been established, and the parts list has been finalized. Essentially, I'm going to - eliminate the EPAS and replace it with a hydraulic power steering solution from a 05-09 S197, and utilize the narrow ratio FR500C power steering rack. - eliminate the OEM A/C (MIGHT try to add back later with Fox body compressor/brackets) - eliminate ECU (hence the need to replace instrument cluster) - going with a stock 351w block with a forged bottom end and AFR heads (size to be determined, but I'm thinking 205's or 215's. - Edelbrock Air Gap intake with a QuickFuel 850cfm double pumper - MSD ignition - T56 trans with QuickTime bellhousing - BMR 351w swap K-member - Fabricated instrument cluster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 23.6% of goal, and picket up a set of used barely use (less than 500 miles) AFR 205's w/ rockers for $1600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted March 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 69% of goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Well, I decided to go with a Dart SHP block, so we've bumped the planned displace back up to 427. Also, the heads I bought came off a solid roller motor, and therefore the valve springs are intended for use on a solid roller cam. I'm considering just getting a solid cam to save the expense of having to replace the springs, but I haven't yet decided which way to go there. Other issues addressed: 0) Using a carb requires a throttle cable (no more drive-by-wire), so i found and purchased a fox body gas pedal for $30 (shipped) on Ebay. I also have to relace my brake pedal with a clutch/brake pedal assembly (I'm changing from an auto trans to a T56), and found both the assembly and a manual transmission master cylinder reservoir for $130 (shipped). 1) I have to convert the car to a return-type fuel system. I was originally going to use the OEM pump and weld a fitting in for a return line, but guess what - the S197 fuel tank is plastic! This means the only practical way to convert the car to a return-type fuel system (and keep the OEM tank) is to spend an extra few hundred dollars on a replacement fuel hat (I'm going with the Aeromotive Stealth 1000 setup). 2) Headers will be Accufab #BT210 with 1-3/4 primaries and a 3-inch collector, and mufflers will be 25-inch bullets with pipes that either dump out in front of the rear axle or at the sides ofthe car in front of the rear tire. 3) Engine mounting will be done with a BMR 351w swap S197 tubular K-member. 4) I will not be keeping the A/C, but I will be keeping the heater. 5) I'll be deleting the EPAS (electronic power steering) and installing a Griggs close-ratio hydraulic power steering rack. Remaining questions 0) Whether I'll need to have a transmission cross member fabricated. I dont THINK I'm going to have to because I can buy a cross member for a T56 installed in a S197. At the very least, I may have to fabricate an adapter plate. 1) How the ignition/instrument cluster will play out. Since the ECU will be gone, and I'm using a MSD ignition, there is a question about whether or not I'll be able to keep the instrument cluser and PATS ignition key. Even if I was able to keep the OEM cluster, will I have to deal with the idiot lights that are bound to come on? I might have to go with a racecar-style ignition panel and a fabricated cluser with aftermarket gauges. The ultimate goal is to have the swap finished by the time Mustang Fest 2014 rolls around in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denstang65 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 For the instrument panel, can't you go with an original 67 or 68 mustang panel? That way all your hook ups will be analog. The panels on the 05-up stangs use that retro style anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 For the instrument panel, can't you go with an original 67 or 68 mustang panel? That way all your hook ups will be analog. The panels on the 05-up stangs use that retro style anyways. The 67/68 mustang cluster doesn't include a tach, and I think the speedo oly goes up to 120 (or maybe 140). The T56 comes with my choice of electric or mechanical speedo hookup. I want to choose electric if possible because aftermarket speedos are availble in electric as well, and wires are infinitely easier to manipulate than a speedo cable. The main problem with the OEM cluster though, is getting a signal to the tach. I'm not sure how the tach signal arrives (most likely a hall-effect kinda deal based on a crankshaft reluctor wheel), and if it's possible to adapt a tach signal from a V8 to the V6 tach. If I have to replace the cluster, I can probably just put the new gauges behind the bezels, but all of the electronics behind it will probably have to go (and if that's the case, the PATS key probably won't work as a PATS key any more because the key is paired up to the cluster). Besides the speedo and tach, all I need is a fuel level gauge that can talk to the OEM sender. I already have aftermarket volts, water temp, and oil pressure gauges. In the end, instead of worrying about it or trying to finger it out, it might be more cost effective to just dive in and so some fabrication. I'm not afraid of it - it's just kind of a hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Did some thinkin' on the fuel hat issue, and I think an OEM fuel hat can be converted to a return-type system with some careful drilling of the hat, and the addition of an AN bulkhead fitting for the return line/down tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'm at 80% of parts cost savings goal. I'm gonna order the parts for the long block probably near the beginning of next week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseygator Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 We think we fingered out how to keep the OEM cluster (the tach was the biggest issue) AND the EPAS steering rack. If it turns out that we can keep the EPAS, I'm going to try to have the A/C hooked up too (all I'll need is custom A/C lines and a compressor from an 94/earlier Mustang), which means the only thing I'll be giving up is cruise control. I love hot-rodding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 Ordered the valve covers ("427 Cobra" ribbed), air cleaner ("Cobra" oval), and fuel pressure regulator last week. I also bought a T56 Magnum trans and QuickTime SFI-certified bellhousing yesterday - a local shop bought it for a fox body getting a 351w and realized it wouldn't fit because of a) headers and b) clutch cable, so I bought it from them. Currently looking for the absolute best price on a Dart SHP block. I also have a set of AFR 205 heads. I will be ordering the rotating assembly this week. I was looking at the EPAS (in pictures on the net), and it's looking like it's going to be a TIGHT fit, even after grinding off offending appendages and bracing. I am "concerned". If I can't keep the EPAS, I'm going to have to spend an additional $700 on hydraulic power steering parts. We're going to try to find a wrecked 2011/12 and get the EPAS off of it for the purposes of test fitment. Then, before bolting the k-member to the frame, we're gonna bolt it to the engine (while it's on an engine stand) and do our trial/error fitting with the EPAS. This will make it easier to get the EPAS in/out of the car, and the oil pan on/off the motor while modifying stuff. I already know we have to mod the EPAS to bolt up the the BMR K-member, but the real issue lies in whether the EAPS/K-member assembly will fit in the space allotted by the oil pan (between the oil pump and the sump area). The oil pan is going to be a Moroso 20520 7-quart, and the K-member is going to be the BMR KM012 (351 swap into S197). BMR said they could probably assist in clearancing the EPAS for their K-member, but I'm going to be on my own regarding the oil pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted April 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Ordered the rotating assembly from FordStrokers.com today: RPM forged 4340 crank with 2.75 main journals RPM forged H-beam rods Wiseco 4.125 22cc dished pistons with inline valve reliefs Internally (zero) balanced $1874 + $45 shipping Will be ordering the Dart SHP block and the rest of the motor parts on Tuesday. I also ordered a timing chain cover and crankshaft trigger wheel off ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Dropped $5k at Summit for the Dart block, along with everything else necessary to complete the engine build, and $400 at Accufab for headers. Motor should be assembled by the end of May, and the headers will be here around the 1st week of June. While I'm waiting for all of that to happen, I'll be prepping the car for the swap by moving the battery to the trunk and adding a return line to the fuel hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grsybtch Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted April 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 Ordered the car (QuickFuel BDQ-850), a water pump, and various AN fittings today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted April 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2014 Parts I ordered last week have been delivered. Carb and water pump should be here by Thursday/Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Block was delivered on Friday, and I'm still waiting on the rotating assembly (will be another 1-1/2 weeks before I see that). I also won't see the headers until mid-June because the place I ordered them from waited 10 days (last Thursday) to tell me there was an extra charge and that the header fab wouldn't start until I paid that charge. I now hugely annoyed with Andy's Autosports. In the mean time, I've found a 93 Mustang alternator bracket/tensioner, and determined what starter I'm gonna get. I'm going to mockup the intake/carb/air cleaner later today because - well, I feel a need to play with the parts I have. On a completely unrelated note, I was on my way home yesterday from the shop when I passed a house in my neighborhood. Parked out front, were a 1969 AND 1970 Boss 302s, along with a 1966 GT-350. I braked so hard that I made tire smoke (much to the amusement of the guys that owned the cars), and backed up so I could enter their driveway. The Boss cars were stock (and beautiful). The GT-350 was kinda rough (but was gorgeous in spite of itself), and it had a dual-quad intake (with dual Holley's) on a trans-am (?) intake. While I was sitting there talking to the owners, a guy with a Boss 429 on a trailer pulled in, and we all sat there shooting the breeze for an hour or so. It's been a long time since I was surrounded by that much Ford muscle all at the same time. It was pure heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted May 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 PAARRRRRTTTTSSSS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Taking engine parts to machine shop today for final machining and assembly. Hope to have it back by mid-June as a living breathing 427. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted May 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2014 Headers will be here Saturday, and I'll be ordering the remaining parts this weekend. Yippee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsimmons Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Headers, xpipe kit, k-member, clutch, flywheel, steering parts, starter, and alternator have arrived. We determined that the transmission we already had was just a Magnum, so we returned it, and a Magnum XL kit is on the way. We were told that the input shaft on the XL is too long for the application (351w), so we have a few options if that turns out to be true (and believe me - we WILL measure to make sure that's true): 0) See if the Magnum input shaft is the right length, and if so, get one. I guess I have to call Tremec today. Expected cost: $200-300 (most desired option) plus labor to swap them out. 1) Put the original input shaft on a lathe, turn it down, and reharden it. Expected cost: $200-300 plus labor to R&R 2) Have a spacer made to put between the bell housing and transmission (as well as one for the throwout bearing). I need to call Transdapt (?) and see if they have one/can make the trans spacer. Expected cost: $200-300. This is the easiest, and possibly most cost-effective method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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