CSM# of 4 stick shift GT-H's?

[JeffJ]

So executive GT-H #499 is for sale of e-bay right now. It is an automatic car. This begs the question, "what are the CSM#'s of the stick shift cars?" Were the 4 stick shift cars not part of the 500? The 17 2007 vert stick cars are the last in the 500 series from the CSM numbers that I have seen.

 

 

Link to auction of #499

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Mustang-GT-H-Shelby-RARE-HERTZ-EXECUTIVE-SHELBY-GT-H-40TH-ANNIVERSARY-COUPE-499-OF-500-/261288600097?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3cd603a221&vxp=mtr

Edited September 27, 2013 by JeffJ

[shelbymotorsports]

So executive GT-H #499 is for sale of e-bay right now. It is an automatic car. This begs the question, "what are the CSM#'s of the stick shift cars?" Were the 4 stick shift cars not part of the 500? The 17 2007 vert stick cars are the last in the 500 series from the CSM numbers that I have seen.

 

 

Link to auction of #499

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Mustang-GT-H-Shelby-RARE-HERTZ-EXECUTIVE-SHELBY-GT-H-40TH-ANNIVERSARY-COUPE-499-OF-500-/261288600097?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3cd603a221&vxp=mtr

 

Yes the four manual transmission 2006 model year cars were part of the 500 production run. It wouldn't be proper to put those four CSM numbers out there but as you suspect the 2006 M/T cars were not numbered the same way as the 2007 cars.

 

Steve

[ITHERTZ66]

Steve,

 

Why would it be "improper"?

 

Troy

[JeffJ]

I wouldn't think that putting those CSM#'s would be an issue? There's nothing personal or confidential about it? There's no way to do research or vin search based on a CSM #. I can't think of anything that can be found personal about the CSM#? It's not like you would be listing the VIN's with the CSM's. Only thing to be gained here would be knoweldge. But, so be it.

[shelbymotorsports]

Policy has always been to confirm numbers but to never give out numbers. In this case posting the four CSM numbers is not about owner privacy but more to do with cloning.

 

Right now for someone wanting to clone one of the four manual transmission cars they'd have to take a guess at a CSM number but if I were to post the four CSM numbers all I would be doing is making their life easier. From there all they would have to do is send SAI an inquiry asking if CSM xyz was a manual trans car, which we would reply with a yes answer, they would then print that out and off to Barrett-Jackson they go with their clone and their "verification" from SAI that the car is legit.

 

There is quite a bit of cloning and fake documentation going on with the newer Shelby's. We don't publicly post about it as that would only make things easier for the next person making a clone. In some ways no different then the vintage Shelby's, putting too much info out there only creates a road map for the cloners.

 

Steve

[NordicShelby]

MUMS the word is what I live by.

[ITHERTZ66]

Respectfully, these cars all still have a FORD VIN. The way a Ford VIN and an CSM # match up should under no circumstances be made public. Only the registry official would ever know how they match up. Only Steve knows and can verify if a Ford VIN and a CSM # match. This is what will keep the CLONING at bay. Releasing the CSM numbers for the the manual cars will actually probably cause less clone attempts. Who's to say that my car isn't one of the 4? My CSM matches my VIN so it can be confirmed as a genuine Hertz with paperwork- but unless the public knows which CSM matches the manual cars, any one of us can convert our cars and attempt to sell it to an unsuspecting buyer since they can't disprove it by simply looking it up.

 

Also, by publishing this information NOW you can avoid any potential risk of a future registrar making these things up as they go along or any propensity for ill-doing for the sake of financial gain.

Edited September 27, 2013 by ITHERTZ66

[GTH391]

I always doubted anything would come of registering our vehicles with Shelby. At first, we all thought there would be a published resource of where each car was. Seems to be fading away every day.

[shelbymotorsports]

Respectfully, these cars all still have a FORD VIN. The way a Ford VIN and an CSM # match up should under no circumstances be made public. Only the registry official would ever know how they match up. Only Steve knows and can verify if a Ford VIN and a CSM # match. This is what will keep the CLONING at bay. Releasing the CSM numbers for the the manual cars will actually probably cause less clone attempts. Who's to say that my car isn't one of the 4? My CSM matches my VIN so it can be confirmed as a genuine Hertz with paperwork- but unless the public knows which CSM matches the manual cars, any one of us can convert our cars and attempt to sell it to an unsuspecting buyer since they can't disprove it by simply looking it up.

 

Also, by publishing this information NOW you can avoid any potential risk of a future registrar making these things up as they go along or any propensity for ill-doing for the sake of financial gain.

I'm not sure I'm following the logic that posting CSM numbers will reduce the chance of cloning. SAI is always open to new ideas or suggestions from the Shelby community, but first lets revisit my earlier scenario.

 

Lets say that we publicly post that CSM "xyz" is a manual transmission car. Now Mr. Cloner sees that post and dolls up a run of the mill 2006 Ford Mustang GT in GTH clothing. Now Mr. Cloner knowing that he's looking to scam a buyer out of big money, well big money compared to what a used 2006 Mustang GT is worth, so he wants to put together some sort of documentation to further fool a potential buyer. So Mr. Cloner sends SAI an inquiry asking if 06H"xyz" is a manual transmission car which of course he receives a reply of yes, CSM 06H"xyz" is indeed one of the four manual transmission cars. Mr. Cloner then prints out this SAI "verification" and heads off to Barrett-Jackson with his clone.

 

As always, Mr. Cloner is thinking one step ahead so he makes sure his clone goes across the block on the weekend which would prevent a potential bidder from just picking up the phone and calling SAI for a CSM & VIN number check. Now comes auction time, the car rolls up on the auction stage, the car looks great and the seller is hyping up how rare the car is with a manual transmission, everything on the car looks legit to the bidder who then sees a letter on the window, why look this letter is from SAI saying that CSM 06H"xyz" is one of those 1 of 4 manual transmission cars so the bidder quickly looks at the cloned dash plaque and comes to the conclusion that he's going to be the winning bidder on what he believes is a rare manual transmission GTH.

 

The new owner pays for the cloned Shelby and takes it home from the auction. He's so excited that it takes him a week or so before he decides to get over to the registry and register his new Shelby with us but wait for some reason the Registry system is not accepting his VIN number. Not thinking too much about it the new owner figures he'll just give the Registry a phone call in the morning and then that's where it hits the fan. The buyer is made aware that the car he just purchased is not a Shelby and proceeds to go off the deep end saying that's impossible as the auction seller gave me a letter from SAI saying that CSM 06H"xyz" is a manual transmission Shelby. I then have to keep repeating to the buyer, that yes CSM 06H"xyz" is a manual transmission car but that you did not purchase 06H"xyz" you unfortunately purchased a clone.

 

The above scenario is intentionally over simplistic and of course some will feel that its the buyers fault for not researching the car before bidding and that may well be true. SAI has policy's like these to not only protect the Shelby brand but to help protect the owners/enthusiasts. If you only knew how many people over the years have come after SAI & Carroll because they were bamboozled into purchasing a clone/replica/tribute that they thought was a real Shelby, lets just say its not even funny how many people feel that SAI needs to make them whole for their mistake.

 

And if publicly posting numbers prevents fraud then why does SAAC, Kevin Marti and others not publicly post numbers on the vintage Shelby's?

 

Steve

 

Please excuse the grammar and punctuation in my above post. It's late Friday afternoon and .... well you'll understand, hopefully.

[SGT-C0056]

Steve, you have great points, but anyone buying a Shelby new or past, should not be that dumb as to not cross check the CSM to the VIN. so if they called SAI with a CSM # and wrong VIN, they would get a reply that this car is fake. As for the cars Registry, I would hope that some day, the new Shelbys, the one with assigned CSM#'s from SAI, will be included in the SAAC Registry book. And byt he way, they print VIN #, CSM# and Owner Info.

[David Hawkins]

Just wait till the 50th Anniversary........I am sure that some or all will be at one of the Celebrations and then all you have to do is look at the Dash Plate.

[HARALD KELLEY]

Steve, you have great points, but anyone buying a Shelby new or past, should not be that dumb as to not cross check the CSM to the VIN. so if they called SAI with a CSM # and wrong VIN, they would get a reply that this car is fake. As for the cars Registry, I would hope that some day, the new Shelbys, the one with assigned CSM#'s from SAI, will be included in the SAAC Registry book. And byt he way, they print VIN #, CSM# and Owner Info.

Agree, I would also hope. SAAC is quoted "Recognized since 1975 as the undisputed authority on the history and legacy of all Shelby automobiles". While I know the intent was the first generation but now there are the 2nd generation so I hope SAAC would consider including them and stay true to the undisputed authority branding.

Edited October 7, 2013 by H0050

[glhs0075]

"SAAC the undisputed authority on the history and legacy of all Shelby Automobiles?" I happen to know a few hundred people who would dispute this claim.