palacekeeper Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'm getting ready to do the first oil change on my 2013, and i had a few quick questions: 1. This car has the performance package and the track package. If i recall correctly, i remember hearing that cars with the track pack needed more oil (8.5 vs. 7.5, maybe?). But, in the owner's manual supplement it says 8.5 for both cars with a cooler and without a cooler (assuming they are referring to track pack). Can anyone clarify the amount of oil needed? I'm pretty sure it should be 8.5, but just double checking. 2. It looks like there is some sort of cover underneath. I can't see too well under there without a ramp, but is there some sort of cover that needs to be removed to get to the oil filter underneath (just want to be prepared ahead of time)? 3. Any other considerations with changing the oil in a car with the track pack? thanks for any tips on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'm getting ready to do the first oil change on my 2013, and i had a few quick questions: 1. This car has the performance package and the track package. If i recall correctly, i remember hearing that cars with the track pack needed more oil (8.5 vs. 7.5, maybe?). But, in the owner's manual supplement it says 8.5 for both cars with a cooler and without a cooler (assuming they are referring to track pack). Can anyone clarify the amount of oil needed? I'm pretty sure it should be 8.5, but just double checking. 2. It looks like there is some sort of cover underneath. I can't see too well under there without a ramp, but is there some sort of cover that needs to be removed to get to the oil filter underneath (just want to be prepared ahead of time)? 3. Any other considerations with changing the oil in a car with the track pack? thanks for any tips on this! I've now done two changes on my car with the TP. Having said that, here's what I know about it... 1. TP cars take ~9.5 qts on INITIAL fill, while non-TP cars take ~8.5qts. ALL of them take ~8.5qts when CHANGED because the oil doesn't drain out of the cooler and tubing to/from it. 2. You do NOT need to remove any panels under the car to drain the oil or change the filter. 3a. Some folks report only needing ~8qts so, since overfilling causes excessive blow-by, I recommend you put ~7.5qts in and check it before adding the final ~1qt. 3b. There's a structural member that runs under the filter. I recommend covering it with something before removing the filter, to prevent getting oil on/in it. That will prevent days of dripping when you're done. 3c. IMO, there are much better oils than Motocraft. I recommend using something like Amsoil, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngotSilverSnake Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Use whatever oil you want. However, if you choose an oil that does not meet Ford WSS-M2C931-B you may have warranty issues if you experience an engine problem. Amsoil does not make a 5W-50 oil and has no recommendations for your car for their products. Mobil 1 does make a 5W-50 oil but does not recommend it for our cars. Royal Purple does not make a 5W-50 oil. The choice is yours. Just wanted to make sure you make an informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palacekeeper Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I've been using Castrol full synthetic 5w50 my 2008 so far. Thoughts on the quality of that one? Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I've been using Castrol full synthetic 5w50 my 2008 so far. Thoughts on the quality of that one? Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated! I've read about numerous Shelby owners who've had good results with Castrol, in addition to the others I listed above. I'm sure it will continue to serve you well. Doom and gloom aside, there are a number of lubricants on the market that objective analyses indicate perform better than the OEM's recommendation. If you're so-inclined, I recommend you spend some time learning the pros and cons to help you make the most informed choice possible. This thread contains a wealth of information about various oils numerous Shelby owners use, including Castrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngotSilverSnake Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I've been using Castrol full synthetic 5w50 my 2008 so far. Thoughts on the quality of that one? Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated! The product data sheet for Castrol Oils does not even list Ford Spec WSS-M2C931-B. Here is the link. You will have to click on the PDS link and type in 5W-50. http://www.castrol.com/castrol/iframe.do?categoryId=9045400&contentId=7080507&nicam=PaidSearch&nisrc=google&nigrp=Castrol+GB-E&nipkw=Castrol&niadv=castrol Here are some links with information on the other oils listed: http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/VehicleLookupPage.aspx?FromIndex=1&url2=2013+FORD+MUSTANG+Z http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/80594-letter-from-royal-purple/ http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39098&page=2 (See Post #14) None of the above are bad oils. I personally use Mobil 1 and Amsoil products in some of my equipment with great success. The issue here is do you care about the warranty on your new car? If not then I am sure any of these oils would work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJinLV Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I just bought 3 cases of Mobil1 5W50 at NAPA bc of a great sale. This is discussed on multiple posts elsewhere and at TS. From what I gather from other posts including one with used oil analysis: Is Motorcraft better than other full synthetics like Mobile1 or Amsoil? Not likely. Will using another high grade full synthetic hurt the GT500 engines? Not likely. Does Ford create specifications for using Motorcraft oil that excludes other full synthetics to reduce competition? Quite likely. Do many of us use Motorcraft to keep our car in warranty? Quite likely Do GT500 owners out of warranty still use Motorcraft? Most do not. (EDIT: MANY DO NOT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 FYI The Castrol oil that is 5W50 has a zinc additive for older cars only and will harm your catalytic converter. This is what I got from their website when entering the '07 Mustang 5.4 (S) engine: "NO MATCH SN 5W-50 - "WE`RE SORRY, NO OIL RECOMMENDATIONS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FOR THE VEHICLE YOU SELECTED. TO RECEIVE FURTHER INFORMATION AND POSSIBLE RECOMMENDATIONS, PLEASE CONTACT OUR HELP DESK AT (800) 462-0835" Further Information For more information on any of our products, please contact our Customer Service line at 1-800-462-0835. Legal These recommendations are based on the recommendations from the Automobile Manufacturers. We do not take responsibility in case of malfunctioning." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJinLV Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I log on to the Mobile website and put in my data 2013 GT500 and it asks me for the level of protection I want, ultimate, superior or premium.I selected ultimate, the top one, and it came back saying "no match" but under superior it states Mobile 1 5W50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Mobil also adds Zinc in their 5W50 weight oil for older engines. The NAPA store I go to has very knowledgeable people working there for 30+ years recommended using OEM oil for my car and not to buy oil with additional zinc in it that ruins catalytic converters. They actually ordered for me the correct Motorcraft oil from our local Ford dealer at their cost. "Mobil 1 15W-50 Mobil 1 15W-50 is an advanced full synthetic motor oil that provides protection beyond our conventional oils, synthetic blends and regular full synthetic oil. Mobi1 1 15W-50 is recommended for high performance vehicles including turbocharged and supercharged engines where a thicker oil film is desired. It is also recommended for many older (?classic?) vehicles where a higher zinc level is desired." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palacekeeper Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 okay this is kind of unsettling. The good news is that i only have about 8000 miles on my 2008, so if i switch now, maybe the impact will be minimal. Maybe I should go ahead and return the Castrol and pony up for the Motorcraft - especially for the new one. So far, it seems that no other oil meets the warranty requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngotSilverSnake Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Secondo: Excellent information. Thanks for posting. Guess that all those ruined catalytic converters would not be covered under warranty by those that choose to use Mobil 1 5W-50 in their cars. WJinLV: Not sure that Ford cares that much about the competition for their 5W-50 oil. Given that it is specified only for the Ford GT and the GT500 it seems to me that the very low volume of sales would hardly cover the developmental cost of the oil. If other oils were perfectly adequate for our cars, then why would Ford bother to develop a special oil just for our cars? They do not do that for any other car in the line up. I have never read or heard about a single case where Motorcraft 5W-50 caused any problem for any GT or Shelby engine. In fact, just the opposite. No problems WHATSOEVER with Motorcraft oil. IMO, all the negative comments about Motorcraft oil on this and other forums do not come close to passing the BS test. Also, I would like to you to provide the source you used to back up your statement that most Shelby owners do not use Motorcraft oil after the car is out of warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 For reasons that escape me, OP, discussions about motor oil are like discussions about religion and politics. Everybody has an opinion, many are easily offended, and few are interested in changing. As WJinLV pointed out, the topic has been beaten to death in many places. Look around and take some time to read the available empirical data as well as what others think. I started off by answering your questions and offering an informed opinion for your consideration. In the end, the decision about what oil you use is yours. I, for one, respect whatever decision you make and am not interested in arguing about it or throwing stones at those with whom I may disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palacekeeper Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I was just looking for an online site to order the oil, and came across one of the threads where the Motorcraft oil was being criticized. The consensus was Redline 5w50. I would paste the link, but apparently there is some sort of forum kung fu needed to accomplish this, where a simple Control-V doesn't work. the thread subject is 5w50 oils and it is on svtperformance.com (see thread # 88) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yes there's lots of discussion regarding the oil for our cars. I just wanted my Shelby brothers to know what I learned about the zinc. Now, regarding the other oil discussions, very amusing to me but very strange how common sense goes out the window- people trying to say that we should use a different weight oil than what Ford (designer and manufacturer of the actual engine, mind you) recommends, and others using an oil for classic cars without emissions equipment, etc. Ford is very specific in the owners manual for which oil to use; others will say that it was written for marketing, etc. Unbelievable. I do agree that other oils can and will lubricate the engine, but on a brand-new car like what the OP has, I recommend the Ford oil for his sake just in case an issue arises where he might need warranty work. The other oils plainly say they are not responsible for property damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palacekeeper Posted September 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Thanks Secondo - appreciate the insights. So, can anyone confirm the correct part # for the Motorcraft oil? I found a site, k-mansparts.com, that has part # XO-5w50-QGT. Is that the correct oil part #? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJinLV Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Also, I would like to you to provide the source you used to back up your statement that most Shelby owners do not use Motorcraft oil after the car is out of warranty. Ingot: No scientific poll, but from being an active reader and member of the 3 websites related to our GT500s, that seems to be the general opinion. Maybe I should have said many, not most. My apologies. Im not saying anything bad about Motorcraft oil, its in my GT500 now until warranty is over, but just seems odd that only Fords motor oil is recommended but other oils with better wear and lube characteristics wouldnt make the cut. Motorcraft sheers to a lower weight, 30W, quicker than other oils. Here is the blog concerning oil wear specs: http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13996&highlight=OIL+ANALYSIS Ingot, I believe you were part of this discussion as well (apologies again if Im incorrect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Pic of the bottle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy49 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION Use Motorcraft® SAE 5W-50 full synthetic or an equivalent SAE 5W-50 full synthetic oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C931-B. Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, cleaners or other engine treatments. They are unnecessary and could lead to engine damage that is not covered by Ford warranty. Change your engine oil and filter according to the appropriate schedule listed in the scheduled maintenance information. This is Ford's Official "Recommendation", it doesn't say anything about not using other brands of oil. There is no mention of what oil to use in the Warranty Manual. Merriam-Webster Recommend : to say that (someone or something) is good and deserves to be chosen : to suggest that someone do (something) : to make (something or someone) seem attractive or good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngotSilverSnake Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Also, I would like to you to provide the source you used to back up your statement that most Shelby owners do not use Motorcraft oil after the car is out of warranty. Ingot: No scientific poll, but from being an active reader and member of the 3 websites related to our GT500s, that seems to be the general opinion. Maybe I should have said many, not most. My apologies. Im not saying anything bad about Motorcraft oil, its in my GT500 now until warranty is over, but just seems odd that only Fords motor oil is recommended but other oils with better wear and lube characteristics wouldnt make the cut. Motorcraft sheers to a lower weight, 30W, quicker than other oils. Here is the blog concerning oil wear specs: http://www.fordgt500.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13996&highlight=OIL+ANALYSIS Ingot, I believe you were part of this discussion as well (apologies again if Im incorrect) No need to apologize. We are having a good cordial technical discussion here. I try to back up all my posts with a source of some sort and expect to be challenged when I make a statement. I see nothing wrong with asking others for their sources as well. On the subject of oil analysis, I think a lot of the data posted on the various forums is erroneous. Providing raw data and letting forum members come to their own conclusions is very useful. However, some untrained and uneducated self proclaimed "expert analysts" tend to draw faulty conclusions from extremely limited amounts of data. Here is an article that does a pretty good job of discussing used oil analysis. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis-how-to-decide-what-is-normal/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngotSilverSnake Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION Use Motorcraft® SAE 5W-50 full synthetic or an equivalent SAE 5W-50 full synthetic oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C931-B. Do not use supplemental engine oil additives, cleaners or other engine treatments. They are unnecessary and could lead to engine damage that is not covered by Ford warranty. Change your engine oil and filter according to the appropriate schedule listed in the scheduled maintenance information. This is Ford's Official "Recommendation", it doesn't say anything about not using other brands of oil. There is no mention of what oil to use in the Warranty Manual. Merriam-Webster Recommend : to say that (someone or something) is good and deserves to be chosen : to suggest that someone do (something) : to make (something or someone) seem attractive or good There is nothing wrong with using other brands of oil as long as they meet the Ford specification. As we have seen above, if other oils do not meet the specification, the MANUFACTURERS THEMSELVES DO NOT RECOMMEND THE OIL FOR OUR CARS! From a warranty standpoint with Ford you would have no argument. I would not even attempt to explain to Ford why they should repair my engine if I was using an oil that did not meet Ford Specifications and was not even recommended by the oil manufacturer. I have to agree with Secondo. This is a common sense issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgodden Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I have a grand total of 650 kms on the GT500, I am about to park it for the winter in a heated garage and was wondering if I am at oil change time? Couldn't make my mind up as the mileage is so low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 I have a grand total of 650 kms on the GT500, I am about to park it for the winter in a heated garage and was wondering if I am at oil change time? Couldn't make my mind up as the mileage is so low. Although your mileage is low, it's generally better to store a car (for the winter) with fresh oil. I recommend changing it before you park it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT NAJA Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Although your mileage is low, it's generally better to store a car (for the winter) with fresh oil. I recommend changing it before you park it. Norton, Help me with this. Why is it preferable to change the oil before storing a vehicle for the winter (when condensation is likely to occur and contaminate the fill) versus at the start of the driving season (when condensation is less likely to be a concern because the engine reaches operating temperature for extended periods)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Norton, Help me with this. Why is it preferable to change the oil before storing a vehicle for the winter (when condensation is likely to occur and contaminate the fill) versus at the start of the driving season (when condensation is less likely to be a concern because the engine reaches operating temperature for extended periods)? According to page 258 of the Owner's Manual "The engine oil and filter should be changed prior to storage, as used engine oil contains contaminates that may cause engine damage." Similar advice is also found on numerous, though less authoritative, "How To" sites. In this case, the OP said he's storing in a heated garage. That SHOULD minimize problems like condensation, which tends to be caused by high humidity and/or temperature swings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy49 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 There is nothing wrong with using other brands of oil as long as they meet the Ford specification. As we have seen above, if other oils do not meet the specification, the MANUFACTURERS THEMSELVES DO NOT RECOMMEND THE OIL FOR OUR CARS! From a warranty standpoint with Ford you would have no argument. I would not even attempt to explain to Ford why they should repair my engine if I was using an oil that did not meet Ford Specifications and was not even recommended by the oil manufacturer. I have to agree with Secondo. This is a common sense issue. The problem with the Ford spec is that it seems to change from one year to the next. As soon as an oil company decides to pay to meet the spec, Ford changes it. I tried to get a description of the spec and see what makes it so "special", but found out that I would have to pay to see it. It's funny that no other car in the world requires Ford's special oil. As far as I am concerned it is no different than Ford recommending Motorcraft parts be used during service. They want the money. I would worry about voiding my warranty if they made a statement like this. "Use of any other engine oil could lead to engine damage that is not covered by Ford warranty." No such statement exists. Remember it is a recommendation not a requirement. The only reason Ford only recommends Motorcraft oil is because that is the only oil they used during engine testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 If memory serves, user "68Fastback" a while back reported on the Ford specification, if I remember correctly it was an additive for the lifters. Maybe he will chime in. If he doesn't, I'll try PMing him. Doing a quick internet search found that Roush used to sell their GT/GT500 formula with the Ford spec but doesn't anymore. I did find that RedLine sells the 5W50 oil and mentions the specification, so that may be a good option as well: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?product=11604 The Ford part number for its Motorcraft 5W50 for GT/GT500 is XO5W50QGT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 Regarding the criticism of the Ford oil and the analysis reports, a couple things to keep in mind is that one of the functions of motor oil is to keep the motor clean and to suspend contaminants within itself away from the engine parts. So, according to the reports, the Ford oil is doing its job well. The other is that its critics in those threads listed are Amsoil salesmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy49 Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 SN Rated Motor Oils The latest service category rating for gasoline engines starting in 2011 model year cars and light trucks is "SN." The API SN rating is equivalent to the new GF-5 oil rating by the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC). SN engine oils are designated as Resource Conserving because they help improve fuel economy and protect vehicle emission system components. These oils have demonstrated a fuel economy improvement in the Sequence VID test when compared with a baseline oil used in the Sequence VID test. Additionally, these oils have demonstrated in tests that they provide greater emission system and turbocharger protection and help protect engines when operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85. Oils that meet the new SN and GF-5 motor oil ratings are designed to improve fuel economy, improve the life of emission components (such as the catalytic converter and oxygen sensors), and improve sludge, deposit and oxidation control. The oils also have better low-temperature viscosity, high- and low-temperature corrosion protection, better turbocharger protection and improved filter clogging protection. Aeration control, the reduction of tiny air bubbles, is a renewed concern because modern engines demand that oil serve as a hydraulic fluid in cam phaser devices, variable valve actuators, timing chain tensioners and hydraulic lash adjusters that allow for variable valve timing. These increased demands cause engine oils to be stressed more than ever before. The new SN and GF-5 rated motor oils are backwards compatible and may be used in 2010 and older engines. SM Rated Motor Oils Now ObsoleteThe previous API service category rating for gasoline engines was SM, introduced in November 2004 for 2005 and newer engines. SM-rated oils along with the previous SL (2001) and SJ (1997) ratings, are also backwards compatible and can be safely used in older engines with exceptions (see update below). But the opposite is not true. Older obsolete service classifications (SH, SG, SF, etc.) may not meet OEM lubrication requirements for newer engines. Likewise, API SL oils should not be used in 2005 and later vehicles, and SJ oils should not be used in 2001 and newer vehicles. Motor oils that meet the now obsolete API SM rating may also meet the International Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-4 specifications, which some European and Asian auto makers require. One of the major changes with the current SN motor oils is that the amount of phosphorus anti-wear additive allowed in the oil has been reduced to 800 ppm (parts per million). For more information on this subject, see ZDDP - What is it & Why do you need it? Auto Diagnosis & Repair Articles Old Oil (SM) on left and New Oil (SN) on right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondo Posted September 23, 2013 Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 The pic I posted was an old pic with SM API Service for informational purposes only, so the newer SN API Service applies to 2011-up vehicles. In my case it doesn't matter as I have an '07. OP, make sure your oil is SN rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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