thinking about doing auto-x

[07SGT2899]

hey all,

 

so i'd like to try auto-x with my SGT, but in all honesty, i'm a little intimidated by it.

 

does anyone with auto-x experience have some advice or tips for a first timer?

[Kevin Patten]

Auto -X is a blast and really the only thing that you can hit are cones ( just don't get the timing light ) just go out and watch one or two and then sign up for one and give it a shot - nothing really there to be intimidated with .

[DubbsFaris]

My advice is dont hit people or the cones, and have fun!

 

We do a small auto x every year at our Terlingua event- its a blast!

[Z-man]

If it's like the auto-x I used to do ( a large parking lot full of orange cones), make sure you take time to walk the course a few times before you have to drive it. Memorize as much or it as you can, and plan your entrance points, apexes, and exit points. When you are driving it at speed in the car, it is very easy to forget where you are on the course and take a wrong turn (after all, all those orange cones look alike), if you don't know the turns well. Still, the worst you can do is drive off course...no biggie.

 

One tip i learned early was that if you are going wide on a corner, hit one of the cones on your way off, or back onto the course. If you hit one, you will get a timing penelty, if you drive between them, you are classified as going off course, and that entire run will be disqualified from scoring.

 

Some guys would take out the fuse for their taillights so the other competitors could not see when/where they were braking (these guys were 'hard core'), and they would pull up their emergeny brake handle a notch or two toy set the rear brakes a little closer to the rotor for more instantaneous brake application (I never did that as I didn't want to mess up my brakes if I was a notch too tight when settng the emergency brake.

 

Most important, get out there and give it a try! It's very fun....and addictive.

 

Z-man

[Kevin Patten]

All good pointers - especially the one on walking the track prior - just one thing to add - you might not want to take your wife - as I understand it Mrs. Z was faster than Z-man ( must be why he quit doing auto-xing ) ( claimed she had 10 more HP )

Edited August 18, 2013 by Albino500

[Z-man]

All good pointers - especially the one on walking the track prior - just one thing to add - you might not want to take your wife - as I understand it Mrs. Z was faster than Z-man ( must be why he quit doing auto-xing ) ( claimed she had 10 more HP )

 

You had to go there....didn't you?

 

Truth be told, my auto-x days were prior to Mrs. Z becomming part of my life. At that time I drove a 1988 Mustang GT, with some Saleen Racecraft suspension parts on it. The motor was stock. That put me in the ESP class. I managed to make the national rankings at one point, not because I was especially good, but because ESP was kind of a weird classisfication, and not too many people ran in it. Plus, most of my competiton must have been on vacation those few months, so I ended up being 'ranked' for a little while.

 

A few years ago I did take Mrs. Z to an auto-x event sponsered by BMW. You got to drive their cars with a professional instructors riding along to give you pointers....and it was free! That was Mrs. Z's first time doing anything like that. She started out rather cautiously, and built up her confidence during the day. You will find out that, generally speaking, women are much smoother drivers when doing something like that than men. Smoother = quicker. Men tend to overpower the course and end up plowing their way through it. At the end of the day, Mrs.Z was faster than some of the men, and only a couple seconds behind me (whew!). She even got a miniature orange cone awardeed to her for being the most improved driver of the day. She has the knack. A word of advise, don't ever invite her to go carting. She gets the 'red mist' pretty quickly, then will run you over if you get in her way.

 

Z-man

Edited August 18, 2013 by Z-man

[yellow pony]

I recently auto crossed my SGT and loved every second of it! I wished I hadn't waited 6 years to give it a try! I'm planning to run another course next month...

 

Walking the course is good advice so you have a good feel of where you need to be on each corner. You're just racing against the clock, so take your time on the first couple of runs to get comfortable. As you start to get a feel for the limits of your car you can start to push it a little harder. Generally you'll never get out of 2nd gear and speeds will be under 55 mph so there's no danger of hitting a wall at 150+ mph!

 

The only "problem" is that once you find the limits of your car, you'll feel the urge to spend money on mods to make it better!

 

-yellow pony

[ingram4868]

Visit a few times, talk with other Mustang owners to discuss tire pressures, best shift points and what to bring and what to leave home. Spare tire, jack, etc. or group with a couple of other guys to watch each others stuff while on the field.

 

If the club is SCCA or NASA they may require a helmet. If so ask if they have ones to loan/rent. They are very expensive should the auto-x not be your cup of tea.

[svttim]

Just get out there, nothing to be intimidated by. All good advise above

[Z-man]

The only "problem" is that once you find the limits of your car, you'll feel the urge to spend money on mods to make it better!

 

-yellow pony

 

Be careful on making mods. Even the slightest change to your car can cause you to be moved to a different class. Usually, the more mods, the greater the competition. In auto-x all cars are given a specific classification (i.e. modifier) that is based on the capability of the car itself, not the driver. Once you get your 'raw' time score, it is adjusted for any penaties (like hitting a cone...or two), then multiplied by the modifier. In this way a stock mini-van could run against a modified Lamborgini, and if the mini-van driver is more skilled, the final adjusted scores will bear that out.

 

One more comment about walking the course. When you walk it, your eyes are about 3' higher up than when you are sitting in the car driving it....that makes a much bigger differance than you think. It may look funny, but when walking the course, crouch down an look at the corners with your eyes at the 'driving height'. When crouched down you will notice how the cones tend to appear closer together, and your depth perception of the entire course seems to be reduced.

[Kevin Patten]

 

 

One more comment about walking the course. When you walk it, your eyes are about 3' higher up than when you are sitting in the car driving it....that makes a much bigger difference than you think. It may look funny, but when walking the course, crouch down an look at the corners with your eyes at the 'driving height'. When crouched down you will notice how the cones tend to appear closer together, and your depth perception of the entire course seems to be reduced.

Oh - yeah - the old "Crouching Tiger" approach !

 

Sorry Z-man I just couldn't stop myself - go Mrs. Z ( I'm your biggest fan ) Keep bringing home the trophies !

Edited August 18, 2013 by Albino500

[07SGT2899]

Thanks for all the tips guys! Does anyone know what class my car should be in? She's an all stock SGT

[Z-man]

 

 

Oh - yeah - the old "Crouching Tiger" approach !

 

Sorry Z-man I just couldn't stop myself - go Mrs. Z ( I'm your biggest fan ) Keep bringing home the trophies !

You mock my 'Crouching Tiger' style, yet you don't dispute it's power....do you Grasshopper? When you can snatch the gear shift from my palm, you will have learned well.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the tips guys! Does anyone know what class my car should be in? She's an all stock SGT

Stock Mustangs used to be in "F" class (I think, but things may have changed). "Tuner" Mustangs (like a Saleen I used to run against) would sometimes be "F" or "E", depending if the stewards knew exactally what they were looking at. My Mustang, with a Saleen suspension got bumped all the way to "ESP" (class E, Steet Prepared), which gave me a modifier worse than a 'stock' Saleen, which actually have more mods than me, but was not modified from how it was purchased. Not to worry, when you get to the event the stewards will know how to classify your car.

 

One more tip (as someone mentioned)....tire pressure. Start running your tire pressure much higher than normal (like 40+ pounds). You will be pushing your car pretty hard into the corners even thought your speed may not be that high. At normal tire pressuse it is easy to 'peel' a tire off of a rim due to the cornering force. Our cars are front weighted, and as such will tend to want to plow (understeer)through the corners unless balanced with some judicious throttle application. A little white shoe polish on the edge of the tire tread and an inch up the side wall (a couple places on all four wheels), will give you a good indication of how far you are rolling over your tires. Air pressure can then be adjusted to optimize the roll just to the edge of the tread (you don't want to be driving on your sidewalls)

[07SGT2899]

can anyone tell me how the saftey inspection works? do they check alot of stuff on the car or just kinda glance at the tires and battery hold down like at my local dragstrip?

[Kevin Patten]

It's pretty much the same as at the drag strip however - everyone has their own way of doing things - bottom line is that it's your responsibility to make sure that your car is safe for competition.

[Frank S]

Autocross is nothing to be apprehensive about. For quite a few events you will only be running against yourself. It's hard not to improve. Don't bother with viewing a whole event before running. Do it early on the first day you are going to drive. Most associations have novice classes; here in San Diego novice-class drivers get to choose when they run. Choose after a couple of run groups, if you can. That's plenty of observation.

 

Smoother IS faster. Don't jerk the throttle, brakes, or steering wheel. Do like Tai Chi: practice slowly or at a moderate pace, so when action is required, the muscle-memory is there, and you can move through it smoothly and effectively. You probably have plenty of knowledge built in already. Relax and trust yourself until you find evidence that you need to learn or change.

 

I do recommend higher tire pressure to start with; however, with modern tires and wheels you don't need to worry about "peeling a tire off the rim". A few weeks ago I did a practice day (20 + runs!) and ended up with pressures of 31 PSI at one end, four pounds under the stock recommendation. The near-new stock tires just barely got to the point where it looked like they were going to use more than the flat part of the tread (just rounded the corners a bit, and gripped the way I'd hoped) and my car is probably a lot heavier and more prone to tire abuse than yours.

 

The real problem with autocross is that it is fun, it feels good, makes your face tired from smiling. There's a temptation to think too much about modifying the car so you and the car are faster, when the most improvement will come from adjusting the driver. No substitute for seat time. With a Shelby GT you have the basis for a winning car; ask Sam Strano, who has been SCCA national champion in class with just such a car. You'll not be able to improve on it much during the first year of your autocross career. After a few events you may have developed enough feeling and understanding of what's going on to see if the car wants improvement or not, and if so in what areas. So much to learn. So little seat time.

 

Go do it, first chance you get. Great stuff.

[07SGT2899]

thank you guys for all the advice and encouragement!

 

frank s, my plan was to run my car completely stock for some time as I'm sure that i'll run out of nerve long before the car runs out of capability!

[Steve.Madrid]

Lots of great advice and I would definately agree with walking the course. I have taken the S-GT out to auto-x once at Ford Nationals in '12 and had a great time. Walking the course was helpful and yes for me the cones started to all look the same at the start so I was glad I had memorized some of the sharper turns.

 

Go enjoy it and have someone video it or get a GoPro. It is fun to watch it later. I would love to do it more but I have been on the road with the new job for over a year now. She is sleeping under her car cover in the garage waiting for the next track day.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Steve.Madrid

[Stevo]

Hey there. I'm also in the Northeast and AutoX my SGT as much as I can. Your car is either F-Stock (but nobody really plays there in the SCCA NER region) or RTR, 'Road Tire Rear Wheel Drive' this class is for stock cars with rear wheel drive only. Its a relatively big class with many competitors. In a typical SCCA event we have between 9-12 cars.

 

Regionally you get the F-Stock multiplier .830 (basically a handicap) You multiply your raw time by that number and you get your PAX time. PAX allows you to compete with both faster and slower cars. For Instance; if you have a 60 second run multiply it by .830 you get a 49.8 sec run. A B-Stock car, say a S2000 Honda, it has a different number .839. B-Stock is considered faster; however, if you multiply the same 60 sec x .839 you get a 50.34. Even though they both had the same raw time the SGT wins on PAX! The SGT shares the same PAX as a regular S197 Mustang GT yet is significantly faster around an AutoX.

 

You will want to consider some summer rubber. I run Dunlop ZII Star Specs 265/35/18 on the stock rim. Another Alternate is the BFG Rival 245/45/18. I have run both and prefer the Dunlop because the treadwear is substantially better. They both say they're 200's but the BFG went up in smoke way faster. Next year requires 200 so dont get 140's such as Toyo R1R

 

The New England region is blessed with an awesome venue for AutoX. Moore Airfield in Ayer MA is a huge playground. It consists of three runways adding up to about 1.5 miles of driving pleasure. This isn't your average parking lot type of venue.

 

We have several clubs such as;

 

BSCC - Bay State Corvette

NE-SVT

Track Club

Renegade Miata

BMW CCA

NER SCCA

SCCNH

 

All are good clubs. Some use the SCCA PAX system, some dont. For instance with NE-SVT its experienced 'Race Tire', or experienced 'Street Tire', or Novice. No PAX can save you! its all based on raw time. Some clubs require you to be members, some don't. If your not already familiar with www.motorsportreg.com check it out. Its a great resource to find Autocross's in the area and beyond.

 

Dont be intimidated its really fun and the people are motorheads just like you! I started last year at the SCCA novice school. I had a good handle on things before the end of the season and was fortunate to get 'Rookie of the year'

 

If you want more information let me know.

 

I'm running with the Bay State Corvette Club this weekend on September 1st. Come on out and check one out. Registration is closed but its still worth the investigation. I'll take you for a ride.

 

I run with all the clubs but my focus is on the NER SCCA regional RTR championship. I'm in first place with two races to go. The SGT performs like a champ in RTR! There are two SGT's in the region that are regulars. Me in RTR and guy named Tom who has a modified SGT and runs in ESP.

 

AutoX has lead me to two track days at Limerock Park and all I can say is THATS SO FRICKEN AWSOME!

 

I have a few vids on line, check'em out. Also do a search on Facebook for TTR, Trinka Tise Racing.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2013 by Stevo

[07SGT2899]

where is the club holding their event on the 1st?

[Stevo]

Bay State Corvette Club - Autocross September 1st at Moore Airfield located in Ayer MA. One exit west of 495 and Rte 2

 

 

http://www.baystatecorvetteclub.com/

[07SGT2899]

thanks for the offer! i may consider it

[2+2]

I have heard that automatics do OK. What is your opinion? Do they run left in drive, or do they paddle shift the automatic, our just figure out what gear to run in and keep it there. I am going to autocross my automatic SGT some day. I have many oppertunities to autocross and road coarse here in Nebraska.

[yellow pony]

Amozic 2.jpgHey there. I'm also in the Northeast and AutoX my SGT as much as I can. Your car is either F-Stock (but nobody really plays there in the SCCA NER region) or RTR, 'Road Tire Rear Wheel Drive' this class is for stock cars with rear wheel drive only. Its a relatively big class with many competitors. In a typical SCCA event we have between 9-12 cars.

 

Regionally you get the F-Stock multiplier .830 (basically a handicap) You multiply your raw time by that number and you get your PAX time. PAX allows you to compete with both faster and slower cars. For Instance; if you have a 60 second run multiply it by .830 you get a 49.8 sec run. A B-Stock car, say a S2000 Honda, it has a different number .839. B-Stock is considered faster; however, if you multiply the same 60 sec x .839 you get a 50.34. Even though they both had the same raw time the SGT wins on PAX! The SGT shares the same PAX as a regular S197 Mustang GT yet is significantly faster around an AutoX.

 

You will want to consider some summer rubber. I run Dunlop ZII Star Specs 265/35/18 on the stock rim. Another Alternate is the BFG Rival 245/45/18. I have run both and prefer the Dunlop because the treadwear is substantially better. They both say they're 200's but the BFG went up in smoke way faster. Next year requires 200 so dont get 140's such as Toyo R1R

 

The New England region is blessed with an awesome venue for AutoX. Moore Airfield in Ayer MA is a huge playground. It consists of three runways adding up to about 1.5 miles of driving pleasure. This isn't your average parking lot type of venue.

 

We have several clubs such as;

 

BSCC - Bay State Corvette

NE-SVT

Track Club

Renegade Miata

BMW CCA

NER SCCA

SCCNH

 

All are good clubs. Some use the SCCA PAX system, some dont. For instance with NE-SVT its experienced 'Race Tire', or experienced 'Street Tire', or Novice. No PAX can save you! its all based on raw time. Some clubs require you to be members, some don't. If your not already familiar with www.motorsportreg.com check it out. Its a great resource to find Autocross's in the area and beyond.

 

Dont be intimidated its really fun and the people are motorheads just like you! I started last year at the SCCA novice school. I had a good handle on things before the end of the season and was fortunate to get 'Rookie of the year'

 

If you want more information let me know.

 

I'm running with the Bay State Corvette Club this weekend on September 1st. Come on out and check one out. Registration is closed but its still worth the investigation. I'll take you for a ride.

 

I run with all the clubs but my focus is on the NER SCCA regional RTR championship. I'm in first place with two races to go. The SGT performs like a champ in RTR! There are two SGT's in the region that are regulars. Me in RTR and guy named Tom who has a modified SGT and runs in ESP.

 

AutoX has lead me to two track days at Limerock Park and all I can say is THATS SO FRICKEN AWSOME!

 

I have a few vids on line, check'em out. Also do a search on Facebook for TTR, Trinka Tise Racing.

 

 

 

Stevo,

 

I'll be heading up to Ft Devens for the SCCA auto-x on Sept 15th. I'll be running in the Novice class since I'm still new to the sport! My first auto-x experience was at Lime Rock about a month ago and it was great! It looks like the Devens course will be a very different experience!

 

http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/index.php/topic/82002-lime-rock-autocross/

 

I hope to get to meet you at Ft Devens in September.

 

-yellow pony

Edited August 29, 2013 by yellow pony

[Frank S]

I have heard that automatics do OK. What is your opinion? Do they run left in drive, or do they paddle shift the automatic, our just figure out what gear to run in and keep it there. I am going to autocross my automatic SGT some day. I have many oppertunities to autocross and road coarse here in Nebraska.

 

I autocrossed a 2006 V6 Mustang automatic. It "did OK". The courses I was on were pretty-much second gear all the way, after the start. Began in first, shifted to second before the first turn, usually, left it alone to the end. The transmission (and brakes) got pretty hot at a practice day where I ran every five minutes for about ten runs. Ordinary autocross, no problems.

[Kevin Patten]

Congratulations to jmn444 (Jason) on going out this last weekend and winning his class in his 2007 SGT at an autocross!

 

Also, his time put him @ 27th overall fastest out of a total of 107 cars that ran! (his car is a Solid rear axle and he runs a 200 tread wear street tire).

 

Way to go Jason!

Edited April 28, 2015 by Albino500

[jmn444]

Thanks Kevin!

 

I think the new suspension would have made more of an impact if the tires had better grip... it was a very cold morning/day and we had three run groups... Lucky me, I got the 1st group.... I think I would have done better in the afternoon with some slightly warmer pavement!

 

Here's a shot from last season:

 

[Kevin Patten]

I hear that you are going to be an instructor at an "intro to auto-x" event next weekend.

 

Where will that be at?

[jmn444]

Tire Rack in south bend Indiana... May 3rd. Motorsportreg.com has the info to sign up... Sponsored by the BMW club but all makes are welcome.

[Kevin Patten]

Go show them how it's done in a Shelby!