Can't Fuel the Shelby

[Andrew DeSpirito]

So, this is the second time in a month my Shelby has been to the dealer for a very annoying issue.

 

The first time, I had about a quarter tank of gas remaining, stopped at a BP to fill up, and after one immediate shut-off click, I restarted it, and fuel started spewing out of the car around the gas nozzle! I have never seen anything like that before! Went to a Shell station down the road...same thing! It was as if there was some serious pressure built up in the tank.

 

Took it to the dealer, they replaced the canister vent valve, and even added $15 of gas to make sure it would take. I filled tank the rest of the way, no issue. That was April 22.

 

Today I swapped my winter and summer wheels/tires, and had about a half tank. Went for a drive, stopped for gas (at the same BP)...same thing! Gas spewing out at me! Tried the Wawa down the street, managed to get maybe 0.25 gallons in before the same thing happened again!

 

So now my poor Shelby is sitting at the dealership, waiting for another diagnosis. I suppose the replacement canister vent valve could be bad, but could there be something else? I know earlier Mustangs had a bad gas tank design that was replaced via TSB, but they already verified my car has the newer (current) gas tank design.

 

So, any ideas? Has this happened to anyone else?

[cormy]

On an off chance It may be the vapor recovery pump nozzle that is being used.

 

Don't know if you have them in your state but in NJ its the law and I sometimes have fill issues similar but not as bad as yours.

[54First]

Check for a melted plastic vapor recovery line near where the exhaust goes over the passenger side axle.

 

Steve

[Ford Fest]

I can't fuel at the station closest to my house regardless which pump I use. We have to go about 5 miles from our house to a station with new pumps and found that the nozzle has to be at an angle.

[dpeoples75]

I have an 07 and have the same problem. I only drive it about every 2 months and it seems to occur after it has been sitting for awhile and then goes away after I run a few tanks thru it. I usually drive it for a week, put 500-750 miles on it then park it for a month or two. It is sporatic but usually occurs in the first fill up after sitting and oddly enough I have found that one particular PB is where it most often doesnt want to fill up. If I go to another station it usually fills. Let me know what you find out because I still dont know what causes it, just been working around it.

[Jer]

Check for a melted plastic vapor recovery line near where the exhaust goes over the passenger side axle.

 

Steve

+1, it's a known issue. BTW, some people got theirs replaced, and the dealership put it right back in the same spot! Duh... Jer

[Andrew DeSpirito]

Jer, thanks! Are there updated instructions in the WSM as to where to relocate it if that is indeed the issue?

[54First]

Are there updated instructions in the WSM as to where to relocate it if that is indeed the issue?

 

 

No. It's a molded, hard plastic tube with a fitting on one end, so you can't really reroute it. But there are other tubes and clips in the vicinity that you can zip tie the tube to.

 

Steve

[Andrew DeSpirito]

Well, they replaced the entire fuel tank on Friday, and I took the Shelby from MD to NY for a weekend road trip. Reached NY with 1/4 tank, stopped at an Amoco, took 20+ minutes to fill, constantly clicking off. Stopped in NJ at a Sunoco, took them 20+ minutes to fill, constantly clicking off (no self-serve in NJ). Stopped at a BP here in MD this afternoon as I got home with 1/4 tank, and whaddya know, fuel spraying out at me. New fuel tank did NOT solve the problem. I asked my dealership, THREE TIMES, if they checked the vapor recovery line. I left it at the night drop with a strongly worded note, and left a voicemail for my service writer. They need to elevate this, get Ford HQ involved, and so help me, if they can't solve this problem, I'm selling it and I'm done with Mustangs forever. This is completely unacceptable.

 

On a related note, take a look at the WSM and check out the routing for the fuel tank fill line. IT GOES UPHILL before it reaches the tank. What kind of moron designed that?! Ford should be ashamed.

[Sherri Leicht]

Try turning the nozzle upside down when fueling....see if that helps. Every once in a while I have to do that.

Edited June 3, 2013 by msmap

[SSGT500]

I had a similar problem on my 07. The problem was with the rubber hose between the filler tube and the gas tank. It had delaminated from heat and formed a bubble on the inside. It appeared normal from the outside. Remove the hose at the tank and look inside. I had to replace the entire filler hose assembly as ford did not make just the hose available.

[Andrew DeSpirito]

Thanks! I got it back after they replaced both fuel pumps (primary and secondary). All that's left to replace is the filler line and the vent line. Another service manager in the shop had a similar experience with an S197 Mustang that perplexed him for weeks, until he removed and tried to force air through the vent line. Believe it or not, there was a dead caterpillar in the vent line! So a simple visual inspection for evidence of melting/burning of course turned nothing up. I just got the car back this afternoon, and have a long trip for work tomorrow. If the problem returns, I'll make sure they fully inspect and test both the fill line and the vent line.

 

Thank goodness I have the PremiumCARE ESP warranty from Ford! I think the cost on this repair is $2,000 and growing! I'm not sure what I'm going to do in December when the extended warranty runs out!

[frydguy79]

we have found many times, that the vent line is the culprit, somewhere it depends on the model as to where there is a orfice in the line, and it gets plugged up, once it is redrilled ... it breathes much better..

 

the holes are not very big.... so we enlarge them a hair...

 

or pull the caterpillar out

[68flashback]

Wow, what a nightmare. Last year when I got my 07 I had the "clicking on and off" issue a lot. All self serve here. I find that holding the handle at about the 4:30 position and starting slowly then speeding up works - I never go full speed. Must have the touch now because so far this year it's been fine. Good luck with this and please post the final resolution!!!

 

Cheers

 

Gregg

[Aussie67]

Thanks! I got it back after they replaced both fuel pumps (primary and secondary). All that's left to replace is the filler line and the vent line. Another service manager in the shop had a similar experience with an S197 Mustang that perplexed him for weeks, until he removed and tried to force air through the vent line. Believe it or not, there was a dead caterpillar in the vent line! So a simple visual inspection for evidence of melting/burning of course turned nothing up. I just got the car back this afternoon, and have a long trip for work tomorrow. If the problem returns, I'll make sure they fully inspect and test both the fill line and the vent line.

 

Thank goodness I have the PremiumCARE ESP warranty from Ford! I think the cost on this repair is $2,000 and growing! I'm not sure what I'm going to do in December when the extended warranty runs out!

 

Guessing no more problems?

[ITHERTZ66]

This happened to me during a road trip last week. I was only able to get 1/2 tank on a fill. Happened twice at two different gas stations. Hard to road trip with an 8 gallon tank. When I filled up after getting home and waited a day I was able to fill up, but only let the trigger on the slow/first click mode and held it at an angle. I was dumbfounded as to why the filling problem was happening to me and found it to be a common problem after searching it on the web.

[Andrew DeSpirito]

Crossing fingers, the problem seems to have disappeared for the most part. I've done 2 or 3 fill-ups since the last repair, and made sure to do it at the local Exxon station and BP station that often give me issues, and other than 2 or 3 click-offs just as I started, it was smooth sailing after that and I was able to get full tanks in every time. So, apparently, the problem is resolved! (For now.)

 

[Andrew DeSpirito]

Another update - this issue is finally resolved! After my last post (July), the problem appeared again. Same symptoms. Took it back to the dealer in November, and the replaced the only part they hadn't - the fill line. The tech (the only one that ever works on my car, so I trust him) even took it for a "spirited" (my instructions!) 30-mile drive, and filled it up with nary a problem (I'd noted that the issue seems to be worse when the car is fully warmed up after a longer trip). Unfortunately, I couldn't drive the car for about a month afterward (weather and work travel), so I didn't confirm the fix until a few weeks ago. The verdict? I put in 3/4 of a tank, and not a single click-off until she was well and truly full!

 

Looks like the plastic inner liner of the filler line de-laminated and created a bubble that stopped up the fuel flow. Combine that with Ford's completely asinine design of the filler line (it flows UPHILL to go over the rear axle!), this was enough to prevent more than 0.001 gallons at a time from flowing in.

 

I drove the Shelby to Norfolk, VA and back today and filled up again, this time from 1/8 tank -- repeatable success! The issue is finally resolved!

 

I now have a new fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel transfer pump, evap valve, vent line, and filler line -- essentially, the entire fuel system was replaced under warranty. Five dealer visits, totalling $2,800 in parts and labor. My cost? My ESP deductible of $200 (all five repairs covered under the initial claim). I also refrained from reminding my tech that I suggested, at the very first visit with this issue (May 2013), that the filler line might be the problem, and start there. So glad I renewed my ESP for another 5 years!

[2010KonaBlueGT]

I now have a new fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel transfer pump, evap valve, vent line, and filler line -- essentially, the entire fuel system was replaced under warranty. Five dealer visits, totalling $2,800 in parts and labor.

 

This is REALLY sad. All those parts replace without ONE single dianossis. We call that "Shotgunning". Just like a shotgun, if you throw enough parts at it you WILL eventually hit the right one.

 

And this is why mechanics and auto repair shops have such a bad rep.

 

Diagnosis is VERY simple.

 

Logic

History

Ease of Access

 

 

And not necessarily in that order. "Logically", it would be the FILL PIPE that keep the tank from being FILLED!!!

 

Ease of access; The vent line or the fill line is MUCH easier to replace than any of the other items on your list (tank, pump, etc.).

 

Historically, the vent line or fill pipe has given Mustang's a problem;

 

Sorry, but in my opinion your tech needs to go back to school and learn the BASICS/FUNDAMENTALS. He should be ashamed of him/herself.

 

 

Phill (former Tech AND Auto Tech Instructor)

[Andrew DeSpirito]

To be fair, his first task was to run the evap test, and the canister vent valve failed, so that was an issue -- maybe not the root cause, but if it was faulty, I'm glad it was replaced.

 

This tech may not be the best of the best, but this dealership has made everything right every single time I take any of my vehicles in. They don't overcharge, they treat my cars with respect, and I've earned enough of a rapport that they will listen when I bring odd little problems (e.g., they didn't even blink over the transmission TSB). I'll take them failing two or three times if it means they get it right on the fourth...because they don't lie to me, cheat me, or mess up my car. They know how obsessive I am over my cars, especially the Shelby, and they give her the attention and care I think she deserves!

 

No excuses -- this was a lousy repair, that took way too many tries. But she's fixed. And I'm happy.

[Don Johnston]

With the number of complaints, it would seem that Ford should issue a tech service bulletin and replace the defective fill line. It can also be a safety issue when fuel spurts back at you at the pump.

[Jer]

My '07 does it on long road trips (when you MOST wanna get a full tank at a stop!).

 

 

Jer

[ITHERTZ66]

So I'm wondering if there is a proper TSB that any Ford dealership will know how to perform to address this issue. Take a look at this thread:

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2005-2010-mustang-talk/114997-fuel-tank-fill-update-2nd-fix-ford.html

[Kevin Patten]

Ford aparently knew some problem exsisted because they change the filler neck design in 2010 . The filler hose goes through an opening in the unibody whereas the 2005-2009 the filler hose is routed below the frame rail and then goes up and over to the tank. Also there is a fuel tank pressure sensor located in the plastic vent hose between the tank and the carbon cannister that can cause issues . The vent hose from the C/canister was changed to an open ended hose just above the rear axle some time during 2008 which isn't the best idea (in my opinion) because things like catpillers and /or dirt etc.. can plug/block it up and cause problems. I have found on my S197s ( 3 of them ) that it is best to hold the pump nozzle @ around the 4 o'clock position . On the race cars I have taken care of the problem with hollowing out the filler pipe , removing the carbon cannister assembly , make my own vent hose with a roll over check valve , and remove the engine compartment valve assembly along with the return line that runs from the front of the car to the back.

[SSGT500]

Just like I said six months ago. I could have saved Ford $2500 and four trips to the dealer. This problem might reoccur if you don't protect the hose. Do yourself a favor and install a heat reflective sleeve on the hose.

[wingsnut]

 

This is REALLY sad. All those parts replace without ONE single dianossis. We call that "Shotgunning". Just like a shotgun, if you throw enough parts at it you WILL eventually hit the right one.

 

And this is why mechanics and auto repair shops have such a bad rep.

 

Diagnosis is VERY simple.

 

Logic

History

Ease of Access

 

 

And not necessarily in that order. "Logically", it would be the FILL PIPE that keep the tank from being FILLED!!!

 

Ease of access; The vent line or the fill line is MUCH easier to replace than any of the other items on your list (tank, pump, etc.).

 

Historically, the vent line or fill pipe has given Mustang's a problem;

 

Sorry, but in my opinion your tech needs to go back to school and learn the BASICS/FUNDAMENTALS. He should be ashamed of him/herself.

 

 

Phill (former Tech AND Auto Tech Instructor)

 

Nailed it Phill,

Somebody turned in a lot of paperwork and made a shit ton of cash fixing this one.

Chip

[SSGT500]

As members have mentioned before, this can also be caused by a vent line problem. That's what happened on my 2008 V6. Exhaust pipe melted the plastic vent line. So Both my 2007 V8 and my 2008 V6 cars have had fill problems. Terrible design by Ford to run unprotected plastic and rubber hoses containing fuel vapors near an exhaust pipe. When I sent a letter with photo about this to Ford, they simply referred me to my dealer. The dealer couldn't find the hose problem on the 2007. I had to dig into it myself. They told me it must be a problem with the gas station nozzles. After all, "it didn't set a code". That's where we're at in vehicle repair today. If it doesn't "set a code", there is no problem.

[427Aussie]

HI,

I am relieved to hear that there is an issue!! I have my 2007 Super Snake hear in Perth Western Australia with exactly these issues. I thought I was loosing the plot!! A little trip to the hoist I think!!!

 

Trav.

[XY GTHO Phase III]

HI,

I am relieved to hear that there is an issue!! I have my 2007 Super Snake hear in Perth Western Australia with exactly these issues. I thought I was loosing the plot!! A little trip to the hoist I think!!!

 

Trav.

G'Day mate, you must be the only bloke in Perth with a GT500. Anyway I used to live in Nollamara in Perth until I moved to the states in 1991, which pretty much makes me a septic tank now. I am looking for a XY (faker shaker as I can't afford the real XY GTHO Phase 3) that i can import to the states but they appear to be as rare as rocking horse shit. Do you have any web sites that might have some XY's for sale, Thanks Rob

[03 DSG Snake]

Mine still does this now and then. Lately I've been filling it with the pump handle at the 9 o'clock position and look like a spazz.

 

I haven't taken it to the dealer as I prefer to avoid them with this car. Is there a part that can be swapped at home?