Embarrassingly Low Dyno Results. Terrible Rear End Whine

[FomocoUT]

My 2013 has 840 miles on it, so we thought we would run it down to the local Dyno Days. I ran the car on a Mustang Brand Dyno and the two pulls were stunningly bad. FIrst pull was 480RWHP @ 6500RPM (Actually at 5200, then it ran flat to the end.), the second was 455RWHP @ 6000RPM (there was no change in HP from 5000RPM). My 2010 had numbers close to this! Has anyone had any experience with bringing Ford to the task of bringing the motor close to the advertised HP? I was seriously expecting around 540RWHP, am I wrong in expecting that?

 

Also, the rear end whine in this car is deafening at Higher freeway speeds. At 40MPH, you can hear the whine and a higher pitched chirping. Any ideas?

[Snoopy49]

Check and see if your intercooler pump is plugged in.

[shel-b001]

Have you check the fluid level also you might try adding some friction modifier to see if that will help .

[bergenfelter]

My diff did the same thing at about 800 miles - Ford wound up replacing the ring, pinion and all the bearings.

[FomocoUT]

Will check the intercooler, but not sure if that will help on the initial pull numbers. All fluid levels good. Not so excited about additives of any kind at this point. Thanks though.

[aonebadbone]

Ford adds friction modifyer to the rear gear from the factory. I would have the dealer cheak the rear gear as soon as possible.

[Bill Hamilton]

One word *** Warranty ***, I'd be talking to my dealership about the rearend noise.

 

As far as your present rwhp, does it feel the same as your '10 did when driving? Was your 2010 number's stock or with mods? If it's stock, I'd think even on a Mustang Dyno you'd still be in the lower 500's.

[svttim]

My 2013 has 840 miles on it, so we thought we would run it down to the local Dyno Days. I ran the car on a Mustang Brand Dyno and the two pulls were stunningly bad. FIrst pull was 480RWHP @ 6500RPM (Actually at 5200, then it ran flat to the end.), the second was 455RWHP @ 6000RPM (there was no change in HP from 5000RPM). My 2010 had numbers close to this! Has anyone had any experience with bringing Ford to the task of bringing the motor close to the advertised HP? I was seriously expecting around 540RWHP, am I wrong in expecting that?

 

Also, the rear end whine in this car is deafening at Higher freeway speeds. At 40MPH, you can hear the whine and a higher pitched chirping. Any ideas?

 

Was the 2010 run on a Mustang Dyno as well?

[Rodders]

Not sure how long you have had it with 840 miles, but Ford says (or was it my dealer) says the car is programmed not to achieve full power until you have had 25 full warm up cycles...have you had 25 cycles? It would be nice if your problem is this simple and good luck with that and all the experts above trying to help. If you have had the 25 cycles sounds like a job for the warranty service Ford doesn't want people to be dealing with what you have there.

[Bill Hamilton]

Not sure how long you have had it with 840 miles, but Ford says (or was it my dealer) says the car is programmed not to achieve full power until you have had 25 full warm up cycles...have you had 25 cycles? It would be nice if your problem is this simple and good luck with that and all the experts above trying to help. If you have had the 25 cycles sounds like a job for the warranty service Ford doesn't want people to be dealing with what you have there.

 

............. or being driven 5 consecutive miles. Mine still had the "lot tune" on it when I bought it. I was a little disappoint in driving it home, as I live about 5 miles from the dealership but the last mile is through my subdivision. It handled great and sounded good but I was a little disappointed in the performance initially. However by the time I got to my house and picked up some additional paperwork and drove back to the dealership, I had passed the "lot tune" mileage factor and WOW! I thought I was strapped in a Saturn V moon rocket.

[Farmer-Ted]

In my experience Mustang dynos always read low compared to a Dynojet. If the proper info (vehicle weight, etc) is not entered into the Mustang dyno they can produce some odd numbers. Mine made 532 on a Mustang dyno.

 

Also are those actual number or SAE corrected? Sounds like uncorrected numbers.

 

Looking at you username you are also in Utah. Where did you get the dyno run at?

[Snoopy49]

From the 2013 GT500 Owners Manual Supplement.

 

 

 

Alternate calibration

 

 

 

Your Shelby GT500 power train control module (PCM) strategy contains a feature to limit supercharger boost pressure and engine speed to 4,000 rpm for the first five consecutive miles of vehicle operation or 50 engine start/warm up cycles. This feature is enabled prior to shipment. If neither of these conditions have been satisfied prior to customer delivery, full power will not be available.

 

 

[FomocoUT]

It was dynoed at Ziptie Dyno Works, here in Utah. True, the 2010 was run on a Dyno-jet, but it was dead stock and still pulled in the 480RWHP range. I am waiting for the dealer to arrange an appointment for me. I currently own a 2008, a 2012, and the 2013. Honestly, the 2013 just doesn't feel like it has any more than the 2012. I appreciate any other input. Thanks to all of you.

[Bill Hamilton]

It was dynoed at Ziptie Dyno Works, here in Utah. True, the 2010 was run on a Dyno-jet, but it was dead stock and still pulled in the 480RWHP range. I am waiting for the dealer to arrange an appointment for me. I currently own a 2008, a 2012, and the 2013. Honestly, the 2013 just doesn't feel like it has any more than the 2012. I appreciate any other input. Thanks to all of you.

 

Most definitely have the rear noise checked out and I'd also tell your dealership that although lighter and with 122 more rated hp, something must be wrong as it doesn't feel any faster than your 2010 did (or does).

[Farmer-Ted]

It was dynoed at Ziptie Dyno Works, here in Utah. True, the 2010 was run on a Dyno-jet, but it was dead stock and still pulled in the 480RWHP range. I am waiting for the dealer to arrange an appointment for me. I currently own a 2008, a 2012, and the 2013. Honestly, the 2013 just doesn't feel like it has any more than the 2012. I appreciate any other input. Thanks to all of you.

 

 

Ziptie is where mine was run also, it made a best of 532 rwhp and as low as 494 if I remember right. I got a free run because I work with someone that also works there otherwise I probably would not have gone there. They are all import cars. Before you worry about low power go to Premier Performance and run on their Dynojet. Another local 13 GT500 mad 609 rwhp about a month ago on their Dynojet.

[svtkeith]

Yes but listen to what he is saying guys...he says it don't feel any stronger than his 012 never mind the diff dynos...I also had a 013 out for a good ride and I found it a bit flat in the 3 first gears I personally don't like the combo of the 3.31 gears and the new tranny gearing to me it's not a good match and 3.73's would work a lot better with the 013 trans gearing IMO..again not trying to start a pissing match here just what I found when I drove this car and it was well broke in...what rear gears does your 012 have ?..if it's 3.73's that would make the feel in the seat of the pants the same as a stock 013.

[mrdoc442]

My 2013 has 840 miles on it, so we thought we would run it down to the local Dyno Days. I ran the car on a Mustang Brand Dyno and the two pulls were stunningly bad. FIrst pull was 480RWHP @ 6500RPM (Actually at 5200, then it ran flat to the end.), the second was 455RWHP @ 6000RPM (there was no change in HP from 5000RPM). My 2010 had numbers close to this! Has anyone had any experience with bringing Ford to the task of bringing the motor close to the advertised HP? I was seriously expecting around 540RWHP, am I wrong in expecting that?

 

Also, the rear end whine in this car is deafening at Higher freeway speeds. At 40MPH, you can hear the whine and a higher pitched chirping. Any ideas?

 

 

Just a couple of thoughts. But first let me say that it is a pretty good idea to make sure the engine is pretty well broken in before you go too wazoo on the dyno pulls. I don't care what people tell you but dyno pulls, especially chassis dyno pulls can be pretty hard on your engine and drive-trrain. It's just not the same as real time driving and running your car through the gears. Lots of folks don't have any problems with their engines until they start winding them up on dynos, especially chassis dynos.

 

What octane fuel were you using? Most of the data available states that to achieve the maximum H/P you need to be running a minimum of 93 octane.

 

There are a lot of variables when using dynos.

 

As for the rear end, it is a good idea to break in the cars engine, brakes, and drive-train at gradually increasing, varying speeds, gently using the clutch and brakes until everything is burnished in/seasoned well, including the rear end gears, clutch and brakes. After a thousand miles or so, not necessarily babying the car, but just not hammering the car real hard at first, you'll find it will run stronger, and last a lot longer.

 

Good luck,

 

mrdoc442

[FomocoUT]

I appreciate the opinions and ideas. I am still waiting for an appointment with the local Ford dealer. There is no question that the dyno pull is very hard on the car. I am reluctant to do more just to get another number prior to having the rear end looked at. I ordered this car from Ford through a California dealer. The first 800 miles were made at varying speeds and stop and go traffic between here and Los Angeles. This is my fourth GT500 that I have purchased and broke in this way.

 

Because I did not want to pay California sales tax, I had a representative from the dealership accompany me to Las Vegas. It is interesting because we were both commenting the entire way about the apparent lack of power. Yes, the car only has 3.30 in the rear, but my 2010 was only about 3.55. This is still a powerful car, but it just doesn't feel like it is producing all the ponies. My son has a 2007 STI, and it was all the 2013 could do to pull away from it in some street trials. In one instance, he had a sweeter spot and pulled away from me! Now his car has been on the same dyno and pulled 342RWHP. Granted, much lighter, but both my 2010 and my 2008 pulled away from this car with ease.

 

I honestly feel like the rear end could be a big part of the problem. As I mentioned, the whine at freeway speeds is deafening. If the engine is pushing some tightly bound gears, it is going to cost power.

 

Again, thanks for all your suggestions. I will post what information I get from the dealer.

[aaronlstiles]

Sounds like you may have a monday car, the rear may have more drag than it should have, but if it where that much it would have locked up by now. Is the rear end stock?

[mrdoc442]

I appreciate the opinions and ideas. I am still waiting for an appointment with the local Ford dealer. There is no question that the dyno pull is very hard on the car. I am reluctant to do more just to get another number prior to having the rear end looked at. I ordered this car from Ford through a California dealer. The first 800 miles were made at varying speeds and stop and go traffic between here and Los Angeles. This is my fourth GT500 that I have purchased and broke in this way.

 

Because I did not want to pay California sales tax, I had a representative from the dealership accompany me to Las Vegas. It is interesting because we were both commenting the entire way about the apparent lack of power. Yes, the car only has 3.30 in the rear, but my 2010 was only about 3.55. This is still a powerful car, but it just doesn't feel like it is producing all the ponies. My son has a 2007 STI, and it was all the 2013 could do to pull away from it in some street trials. In one instance, he had a sweeter spot and pulled away from me! Now his car has been on the same dyno and pulled 342RWHP. Granted, much lighter, but both my 2010 and my 2008 pulled away from this car with ease.

 

I honestly feel like the rear end could be a big part of the problem. As I mentioned, the whine at freeway speeds is deafening. If the engine is pushing some tightly bound gears, it is going to cost power.

 

Again, thanks for all your suggestions. I will post what information I get from the dealer.

 

 

 

I don't think you have mentioned which rearend your car has, standard or torsen? If it is the rearend, best to get that fixed asap -you don't want that puppy locking up on you when you are driving down the road.

 

Another thought. Since you are fairly close, why don't you think about running your car up to Shelby's facility in Las Vegas and have them put a good performance tune on it. I'd be wiling to bet they could find some good performance in your car. I'm not suggesting making the car a Super Snake, just throw a good tune on it. It's my understanding they will do pretty much whatever a customer wants done to their car. I'm sure they would probably stick a lower set of rearend gears in it if you wanted them to as well. Of course I understand the apppeal of warranty coverage by Ford through the dealer, but if you get tired of screwing around with the dealer, you have another good option. Whatever works best for you.

 

mrdoc442

[COBRA32]

Take it to the dealer get the rear end fixed and tell them about the low power feel. No way should your sons STI hang with your car. Your 2010 gt500 should not feel faster either. I had a 2010 GT500 and it does not even come close to my 2013 in feel are power. My 2013 pulled my 2010 so bad it was not even a race. I say you have a motor problem maybe a bad coil are a weak one. Get it checked out.

[DubbsFaris]

 

 

 

I don't think you have mentioned which rearend your car has, standard or torsen? If it is the rearend, best to get that fixed asap -you don't want that puppy locking up on you when you are driving down the road.

 

Another thought. Since you are fairly close, why don't you think about running your car up to Shelby's facility in Las Vegas and have them put a good performance tune on it. I'd be wiling to bet they could find some good performance in your car. I'm not suggesting making the car a Super Snake, just throw a good tune on it. It's my understanding they will do pretty much whatever a customer wants done to their car. I'm sure they would probably stick a lower set of rearend gears in it if you wanted them to as well. Of course I understand the apppeal of warranty coverage by Ford through the dealer, but if you get tired of screwing around with the dealer, you have another good option. Whatever works best for you.

 

mrdoc442

 

 

Umm, no. Dont mask the problem with modifications. Demand your problem gets fixed. You have a drivetrain problem that needs to be addressed before it breaks something else. Also, the guy has 840 miles on his car people. Even if by some fluke he hasn't driven it 5 miles in one stretch, 50 cycles times 4 miles is 200 miles. He can't have the pre owner tune at that mileage by any combination you make.

 

Car -> dealer -> warranty = happy owner + fast Shelby

[mrdoc442]

Umm, no. Dont mask the problem with modifications. Demand your problem gets fixed. You have a drivetrain problem that needs to be addressed before it breaks something else. Also, the guy has 840 miles on his car people. Even if by some fluke he hasn't driven it 5 miles in one stretch, 50 cycles times 4 miles is 200 miles. He can't have the pre owner tune at that mileage by any combination you make.

 

Car -> dealer -> warranty = happy owner + fast Shelby

 

 

Not sure how you read modifications into what I proposed. I simply suggested having someone who knows what they are doing, i.e. Shelby in Las Vegas, properly tune the car to assure maximum prerformance with what he has, (which is not a real bad idea even if the car is running ok). Not knowing for sure what gremlins are at play with his car, if and when the dealership finds the remedies, or not, he has other options, and who knows, maybe a tuning session with Shelby might unmask the problem.

[bergenfelter]

Look on the bright side - low dyno results "might" be a good thing...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbgXYNfmg9s

[FomocoUT]

Rear end is stock. Car has the SVTPP, but other than that just stock.

[FomocoUT]

What a great video! Now I feel much better! lol

[myfast70]

Have you noticed what type of boost your reaching? Also, what are your inlet temps? This will help verify if your IC pump is plugged in or not if you haven't already checked. When they did the dyno run is it possible that they may have unplugged a coil when trying to get the engine RPM (although this won't explain why it felt down on power on the drive home).

 

Something is off and not right. Any check engine light or wrench popping up on the dash? Keep us posted!

[DubbsFaris]

Not sure how you read modifications into what I proposed. I simply suggested having someone who knows what they are doing, i.e. Shelby in Las Vegas, properly tune the car to assure maximum prerformance with what he has, (which is not a real bad idea even if the car is running ok). Not knowing for sure what gremlins are at play with his car, if and when the dealership finds the remedies, or not, he has other options, and who knows, maybe a tuning session with Shelby might unmask the problem.

 

 

"Properly tune the car" is a modification. A modification that will almost certainly void a Ford factory drivetrain warranty.

Well, without coming across negatively towards Shelby here, let me just say that Ford needs to be the one to address his problems first. Shelby doesnt do Ford warranty work, so he would have to pay Shelby to diagnose the problem, and then take it to Ford anyway. A simple tune voids the powertrain warranty, whether done by Shelby or not, and even though Shelby may carry supplemental warranty for some things done by SA or the performance shop, I dont think the OP wants to really have to wrestle with taking his car BACK to SA again if the problem isnt found, and then dealing with, its not our problem its Ford's and Ford saying its not their problem anymore cuz Shelby did work on the car...its a nightmare scenario dude. And one I am EXTREMELY familiar with. I had my first taste of this with my GT350. I had 220 miles on my brand new car direct from Shelby before I had to take it in to Ford. Guess which one took care of the repair- yup, ME. It was a bad wiring harness from day one, and apparently, all my fault.

 

Your suggestion makes perfect sense in a perfect world. Taking your Shelby to Shelby seems like a no brainer, but it is not the way to get the OP's car fixed under warranty if that is his intention.

[grobertx]

Not sure if this is a factor or not but I'll share... I had a 2012 5.0 with dealer installed Roush TVS supercharger. Day I drove car off I was underwhelmed with what my $8K extra had bought me. It was summer and near 100 degree F and I had no idea how heat plays a factor. Took car to one recommended Dyno with SAE and was livid at a best pull of 428WHP. Started calling Roush demanding answers. Sent pull data to them of which they quickly identified problem as wrong gear. They stated 1:1 was 5th on my car which should of had my car around 140mph. Shop dynoed in 4th at around 110 mph. Went armed with this info from Roush to new shop (highly rated but more with GM brand) for new Dyno. They too wanted to top at 4th gear. After several calls they agreed and went to 5th and resulting 487WHP SAE...

 

When the cooler temps 60 degree F finally came around I felt all the power I ever wanted with traction no where to be found...

 

Love my new 2013 Shelby and I feel the power. The gearing is much longer in lack of a better term. 1st was useless in my 2012 supercharged 5.0 with 373 and each gear reached red line quick. My Shelby allows me to go much further in each gear... Can't wait for the 1st fall cool day and she has over 1K miles because I am going to drive her like I stole her that day!!!

[FomocoUT]

Well, I took the car to the dealer. It didn't take three blocks before the Service Manager said "let's replace the ring and pinion".

 

Okay, now about the power. So I am told that Ford dealers have no way to act upon an issue such as this. They can check to see if there are any updates for the software, but they cannot do much more than that.

 

Further, I was told that there is no expressed warranty about the horsepower, so there is nothing that they can do about it. He told me to take it to an aftermarket tuner. Great.

 

Just a note....I was able to compare the dyno results with the other Utah GT500 that ran on this very same dyno with a 530HP result. Our horsepower curves are IDENTICAL until 5000RPM, where mine goes flatline. The other GT500 goes on to 530HP at 6500RPM. Any comments?

 

I will wait for the new ring and pinion. After I get a few miles on it, we will run the dyno again.