mustang nick Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 I am seriously considering purchasing Shelby CS1 wheels 20 x 11's on rear. I want to achieve more traction and want to have wider tires for my car. I am open to any suggestions based on real world experience BUT I am open to opinions as well. Are there any consequences in going that wide? My 2013 is completely stock. I am also looking for suggestions for tires. Considering drag radials......Looking forward to replies. Have a good night, Mustang Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 All things being equal, If everything fits, the only negative side-effect of wider rear tires with more traction is more understeer - by virtue of less slip angle at the rear. If you're considering D/R's, then its entirely possible that less steering at speed isn't something you'd miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang nick Posted May 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 All things being equal, If everything fits, the only negative side-effect of wider rear tires with more traction is more understeer - by virtue of less slip angle at the rear. If you're considering D/R's, then its entirely possible that less steering at speed isn't something you'd miss. I do not know much about driving other than I love banging gears and getting from A to B as fast as possible. I am considering going to a driving school to learn how to drive fast at a track with some experienced driving instructors. I have an open mind so if you recommend something different I am all ears. Thanks for your quick reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 I do not know much about driving other than I love banging gears and getting from A to B as fast as possible. I am considering going to a driving school to learn how to drive fast at a track with some experienced driving instructors. I have an open mind so if you recommend something different I am all ears. Thanks for your quick reply I don't think I was recommending anything different, more traction on these cars is a good thing. There are ways to address the understeer problem. There are several threads both here and elsewhere regarding wheel widths, in fact I would venture to say its one of the most-discussed topics. I wouldn't be out of line saying that 11's are fairly common and tires are subjective, but the top two or three D/R's won't do you wrong. Its also a wise decision to get some training, even those of us who've spent many years on tracks can benefit. Racing is like golf, its muscle memory and reaction. If you have to think about it... its too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang nick Posted May 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Thanks HyperStangs! Any other feedback would be appreciated greatly from other members as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Hi Nick I am running 11" wheels on my car. The wheel offset is 58mm. The tire I'm using is Michelin Pilot Super Sport 315/35ZR20. These tires are slightly wider than most other brands when comparing the same tire size. The reason for this is they have a very heavy rim protector built into the sidewall of the tire when compared to others brands of tires in the same size. Michelin built this tire size for an OEM installation for Ferrari, Ferrari evidently specified that the heavy rim protector was required before they would install them on the cars at the factory. What most people don't know is there are two different Michelin PSS 315/35ZR20 tires available, both of them built for Ferrari. One has a 1" wider tread width than the other. 1) Michelin part # 79340 has a OEM designation of K2 on the sidewall with a 10/32" tread depth and 12.5" tread width 2) Michelin part # 19605 has a OEM designation of K1 on the sidewall with a 7/32" tread depth and 11.5" tread width. I used the 19605 part number tire. The reason is with the car lowered this tire has a more rounded shoulder when compared to the other tire and gives slightly more tire clearance at the outer fender lip when compared to the other PSS tire in this size at full suspension compression, but I gave up tire contact patch width also. To run the Michelin the 315s on an 11" wheel you will have to have a wheel offset of 58mm or less. To go to a 55m offset you will gain clearance at the inner wheel well, but have the tire setting outside of the body of the car. The 58mm offset I'd say is the highest you can go. To go to a 60mm offset will create rubbing issues in the inner wheel well. You must use a Watts Link with this tire/wheel combo to minimize the amount of lateral movement of the rear axle in relationship to the body of the car. Otherwise you will have rubbing with an adjustable Panhard Rod when the body of the car is articulated while making a right turn up a driveway entrance ramp. You will also have to remove the sound deadening material inside the wheel well regardless of what you use to center the axle. This is very easy to do, but does introduce some noise to the interior cabin of the car. Believe it or not but I didn't gain as much in tire contact patch when going to the 315s versus the stock 285s when you see a 30mm difference in tire size. Measuring the wear patterns of both tires I increased the contact patch 1" in width. The car dos have much better traction with the Michelin PSS when compared to the Goodyear F1s. The other major problem with these cars and traction is concerned, is the stock suspension SUCKS!!!! I found that at the limits of applying the power to the ground that the stock bushings were deflecting too much. This was causing the rear axle to steer the car in some very nasty ways. Get to the edge of the traction limits of the tire under hard power applications and the car can make some very unpredictable maneuvers. If you drive the car hard, you need to do rear suspension upgrades. I just got done doing a CorteX Racing competition Watts Link, Torque Arm and Lower Control Arm kit. The car handles like a dream and these mods didn't increase Noise, Vibrations and Harmonics much in my opinion. The Shelby Track Pack Kit is made by CorteX Racing from what I can tell, but is minus the Torque Arm, but gains the coil over shocks and struts. I retained my stock adjustable Bilstien shocks and struts and used Ford Racings M-5300-L lowering spring kit. I have the stock K member and front LCAs at this time, but may change that out to CorteX parts when they become available in the future. I changed the stock front sway bar for the Eibach adjustable sway bar, while retaining the stock rear sway bar. I used the Watts Link to lower the rear roll center to give a neutral feel to the car with the larger tires in the rear and the slightly stiffer sway bar in the front. Unfortunately I haven't had much time to drive the car with all these changes to dial it in fully yet(100 miles), but the little I have driven the car it handles very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Hi Nick I am running 11" wheels on my car. The wheel offset is 58mm. The tire I'm using is Michelin Pilot Super Sport 315/35ZR20. These tires are slightly wider than most other brands when comparing the same tire size. The reason for this is they have a very heavy rim protector built into the sidewall of the tire when compared to others brands of tires in the same size. Michelin built this tire size for an OEM installation for Ferrari, Ferrari evidently specified that the heavy rim protector was required before they would install them on the cars at the factory. What most people don't know is there are two different Michelin PSS 315/35ZR20 tires available, both of them built for Ferrari. One has a 1" wider tread width than the other. 1) Michelin part # 79340 has a OEM designation of K2 on the sidewall with a 10/32" tread depth and 12.5" tread width 2) Michelin part # 19605 has a OEM designation of K1 on the sidewall with a 7/32" tread depth and 11.5" tread width. I used the 19605 part number tire. The reason is with the car lowered this tire has a more rounded shoulder when compared to the other tire and gives slightly more tire clearance at the outer fender lip when compared to the other PSS tire in this size at full suspension compression, but I gave up tire contact patch width also. To run the Michelin the 315s on an 11" wheel you will have to have a wheel offset of 58mm or less. To go to a 55m offset you will gain clearance at the inner wheel well, but have the tire setting outside of the body of the car. The 58mm offset I'd say is the highest you can go. To go to a 60mm offset will create rubbing issues in the inner wheel well. You must use a Watts Link with this tire/wheel combo to minimize the amount of lateral movement of the rear axle in relationship to the body of the car. Otherwise you will have rubbing with an adjustable Panhard Rod when the body of the car is articulated while making a right turn up a driveway entrance ramp. You will also have to remove the sound deadening material inside the wheel well regardless of what you use to center the axle. This is very easy to do, but does introduce some noise to the interior cabin of the car. Believe it or not but I didn't gain as much in tire contact patch when going to the 315s versus the stock 285s when you see a 30mm difference in tire size. Measuring the wear patterns of both tires I increased the contact patch 1" in width. The car dos have much better traction with the Michelin PSS when compared to the Goodyear F1s. The other major problem with these cars and traction is concerned, is the stock suspension SUCKS!!!! I found that at the limits of applying the power to the ground that the stock bushings were deflecting too much. This was causing the rear axle to steer the car in some very nasty ways. Get to the edge of the traction limits of the tire under hard power applications and the car can make some very unpredictable maneuvers. If you drive the car hard, you need to do rear suspension upgrades. I just got done doing a CorteX Racing competition Watts Link, Torque Arm and Lower Control Arm kit. The car handles like a dream and these mods didn't increase Noise, Vibrations and Harmonics much in my opinion. The Shelby Track Pack Kit is made by CorteX Racing from what I can tell, but is minus the Torque Arm, but gains the coil over shocks and struts. I retained my stock adjustable Bilstien shocks and struts and used Ford Racings M-5300-L lowering spring kit. I have the stock K member and front LCAs at this time, but may change that out to CorteX parts when they become available in the future. I changed the stock front sway bar for the Eibach adjustable sway bar, while retaining the stock rear sway bar. I used the Watts Link to lower the rear roll center to give a neutral feel to the car with the larger tires in the rear and the slightly stiffer sway bar in the front. Unfortunately I haven't had much time to drive the car with all these changes to dial it in fully yet(100 miles), but the little I have driven the car it handles very good. Any photos of the setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Here are a few pictures of the car and tire combo before the suspension was completely finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Once you go T/A, you'll never go back.... more and more people converting to this line of thinking thank goodness. Nice work Mr. H!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Once you go T/A, you'll never go back.... more and more people converting to this line of thinking thank goodness. Nice work Mr. H!! I haven't had time to dial in the suspension alignment, along with deciding if I need to adjust the rear roll center yet. But I can say the car handles very well considering I have the stock K member LCAs and bushings in the front suspension. I would highly recommend these mods to anybody. The thing I like the most about this set up, is no matter how hard your spinning the tires at any given road speed the car goes where you are pointing the front wheels without any extra unwanted excitement. I thought the Kenny Brown rear suspension parts helped tremendously, the CorteX pieces are sooooooo much better after a short shake down run. I need to redo the rear axle oil cooler lines and I'm waiting for some pieces to show up before really start trying to push it or put a lot of miles on it yet. At the moment I just ran some rubber hoses to see how the suspension would work with a few short test runs. The torque arm is definitely the way to go. I like CorteX's front mount, as it allows for a lot more free movement compared to what I've seen of Grigg's TA. The only thing I'd say it has as an annoying trait is when your in stop and go traffic where your constantly changing speeds and throttle position in first gear it can transfer a slight thump to the driveshaft tunnel and floorboards. Otherwise the car handles transitions in turns much better than any live axle car I've ever driven before. I was going to do a more detailed write up about the CorteX pieces in the future when I get some more miles on it. I'm also very impressed with the lack of transmission of NVH from the rear axle to the cabin of the car. Everything but the front TA mount is spherical bearings, the front TA mount is delrin. The NVH transfer is the same or less than the Kenny Brown parts. Some of this is due to going back to the stock K member, motor mounts and bushings in the front though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 I haven't had time to dial in the suspension alignment, along with deciding if I need to adjust the rear roll center yet. But I can say the car handles very well considering I have the stock K member LCAs and bushings in the front suspension. I would highly recommend these mods to anybody. The thing I like the most about this set up, is no matter how hard your spinning the tires at any given road speed the car goes where you are pointing the front wheels without any extra unwanted excitement. I thought the Kenny Brown rear suspension parts helped tremendously, the CorteX pieces are sooooooo much better after a short shake down run. I need to redo the rear axle oil cooler lines and I'm waiting for some pieces to show up before really start trying to push it or put a lot of miles on it yet. At the moment I just ran some rubber hoses to see how the suspension would work with a few short test runs. The torque arm is definitely the way to go. I like CorteX's front mount, as it allows for a lot more free movement compared to what I've seen of Grigg's TA. The only thing I'd say it has as an annoying trait is when your in stop and go traffic where your constantly changing speeds and throttle position in first gear it can transfer a slight thump to the driveshaft tunnel and floorboards. Otherwise the car handles transitions in turns much better than any live axle car I've ever driven before. I was going to do a more detailed write up about the CorteX pieces in the future when I get some more miles on it. I'm also very impressed with the lack of transmission of NVH from the rear axle to the cabin of the car. Everything but the front TA mount is spherical bearings, the front TA mount is delrin. The NVH transfer is the same or less than the Kenny Brown parts. Some of this is due to going back to the stock K member, motor mounts and bushings in the front though. Very nice, we're doing the rear on my car at this very moment but for comparison sake we'll be adding the T/A AFTER a few miles. I want to allow the springs to settle slightly before we dial in the watts-link, and then add the T/A. I went with the BMR lowers, mainly because I like the fact that the adjustments are on one end of the arm. They are essentially the same as the Cortex in every other way. We have a new lower relocation bracket in development which should also improve the role steer characteristics even more (theoretically). Can't wait to hear your full review.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Very nice, we're doing the rear on my car at this very moment but for comparison sake we'll be adding the T/A AFTER a few miles. I want to allow the springs to settle slightly before we dial in the watts-link, and then add the T/A. I went with the BMR lowers, mainly because I like the fact that the adjustments are on one end of the arm. They are essentially the same as the Cortex in every other way. We have a new lower relocation bracket in development which should also improve the role steer characteristics even more (theoretically). Can't wait to hear your full review.... Does your car have a diff cooler? If so, you will need to fab a dry well similar to the stock cover to keep the sensor threads from leaking oil. I have an idea on how to do this, but I'm waiting on some pieces to show up before I take the cover to a fab shop. I'm hoping to do this by the end of the week, but than I'll have to wait on the fab shop LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Does your car have a diff cooler? If so, you will need to fab a dry well similar to the stock cover to keep the sensor threads from leaking oil. I have an idea on how to do this, but I'm waiting on some pieces to show up before I take the cover to a fab shop. I'm hoping to do this by the end of the week, but than I'll have to wait on the fab shop LOL. Nope, no diff cooler.... I opted not to get the Track Pack for the weight savings and added a higher volume tranny cooler (and heat sink) than the T/P version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 Nope, no diff cooler.... I opted not to get the Track Pack for the weight savings and added a higher volume tranny cooler (and heat sink) than the T/P version. Good, because it will save you some fab work on the diff cover. I dropped my cover off today to fab the sending unit mounting well. Ford made the sensor with standard 3/8" x 16 threads and installs it in a dry well with no oil submersion of the sensor. PAS fabricated a fitting to install the sensor in the oil, but it is starting to weep at the threads. So I'm having a shop fabricate a dry well on a CorteX cover to solve it. Modifying things is always fun, nothing works as it is supposed to and by the third time of working on it, you fix it, but a year later when someone asks you how you did it.........you forgot how you did do it LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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