Shelby being advertised as meeting "TS Trailer Concourse Standards"

[shelbymotorsports]

Barrett Jackson is running an ad in AutoWeek magazine for their April Palm Beach, FL auction. In the ad B-J is featuring a 1968 Shelby GT500 convertible where they tout the car as being restored to Team Shelby Concourse Trailer Standards.

 

I'm not sure if I've been under a rock or not but has anyone else heard of Team Shelby having judging standards and if so when did this start and what are the standards?

 

See pic below showing the B-J feature car.

 

Steve

[Torch40]

Barrett Jackson is running an ad in AutoWeek magazine for their April Palm Beach, FL auction. In the ad B-J is featuring a 1968 Shelby GT500 convertible where they tout the car as being restored to Team Shelby Concourse Trailer Standards.

 

I'm not sure if I've been under a rock or not but has anyone else heard of Team Shelby having judging standards and if so when did this start and what are the standards?

 

See pic below showing the B-J feature car.

 

Steve

 

This car was also sold previously at BJ. Back in 2004 for 74K

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=647&aid=48

[MMcGuirk]

Concourse as opposed to concours....... must be trailered to a mezzanine?

 

Team Shelby trailer standards?........isn't that Gregg Zimmermann's pancake wagon?

[Woodlandec]

This is the the ad for the Shelby GT500 as it read for lot#762 at the Barrett Jackson Auction in Palm Beach 2013: http://mustangsdaily...son-palm-beach/

 

No where does it say being restored to "Team Shelby" Concours Trailered Standards. It is however it is a Division II car for judging which is "Trailered Concours". As you can see from the description it won Gold at SAAC twice and it scored 98.6% of the total points at SAAC 37 in 2012.If it had been a Division I car it would has been a 'Premier Level" car which is higher than Gold Level.

 

The Shelby won Diamond Level at at the Team Shelby Nationals 2012 and won 4 golds at all MCA Nationals and Grand National Shows in 2011 and 2012. Plus it won 7 Concours D'Elegance wards including a "Team Shelby" 50th anniversary event at Boco Raton, FL in 02/12 where it received Best in Class.

 

The Shelby was the 4th 1968 Shelby to win the "Triple Crown" distinction and was the 21st 1968 Shelby to win SAAC gold since 1997 out of over 4,400 1968 Shelby's made.

 

The car was sold in 2004 at Barrett Jackson and I bought it in 8/04 at Fast Lane Cars in St Louis for $98,000. The car went through a 3 year restoration completed 04/09. Every time the car was judged I did my best to correct the car and take it to a national show to be judged again and again and again....... correcting those items that were wrong or could be better.

 

I had documented over $415,000 in cost associated with this car including the cost of the car, restoration and ongoing maintenance and improvements .

 

The main reason I decided to sell the car was that I had a bad experience at The Ocean States MCA National Show held in Rhode Island late 2012 and one "out of control" judge in particular and then the head of MCA judging who defended him. The car received gold but I felt I had to fight for it. This was a couple of months after I received 98.6% of the total points at SAAC-37 and was also told by the head Judge there that my car was a "World Class Car"

 

Now I read that you "Team Shelby" guys are pissing on my car when you should be happy that I was willing to spend as much as I did trying preserve this car (which I thought that was MCA, SAAC and Teeam Shelby was all about) I still lost over $100,000 on the car. You guys should be happy that the Shelby went for as much as it did as it shows if you put the money and effort in preserving these cars to high standards they can bring big bucks. By the way there were at least 3 parties driving the price up on this Shelby and I don't believe any of these bidders didn't know what they were doing as the car was on display all 4 days prior to the auction and all the documentation was present.

 

If you guys keep "eating your young" by being negative about the success of 1 Shelby and the the love, time and money one of your co-members was willing to put into it your club is going to "wither on the vine". Especially if you are a "Regional Director" ( I think comments like you made do a disservice to the club)

 

I am shocked that I read what I read on this forum. It just reinforces my main reason for selling.... guys like you take all the fun out it and if it isn't fun anymore then it isn't worth keeping.

 

Sid Roberts

Car #181 in the SAAC Shelby Registry

Edited April 12, 2013 by Woodlandec

[shelbymotorsports]

This is the the ad for the Shelby GT500 as it read for lot#762 at the Barrett Jackson Auction in Palm Beach 2013: http://mustangsdaily...son-palm-beach/

 

No where does it say being restored to "Team Shelby" Concours Trailered Standards. It is however it is a Division II car for judging which is "Trailered Concours". As you can see from the description it won Gold at SAAC twice and it scored 98.6% of the total points at SAAC 37 in 2012.If it had been a Division I car it would has been a 'Premier Level" car which is higher than Gold Level.

 

The Shelby won Diamond Level at at the Team Shelby Nationals 2012 and won 4 golds at all MCA Nationals and Grand National Shows in 2011 and 2012. Plus it won 7 Concours D'Elegance wards including a "Team Shelby" 50th anniversary event at Boco Raton, FL in 02/12 where it received Best in Class.

 

The Shelby was the 4th 1968 Shelby to win the "Triple Crown" distinction and was the 21st 1968 Shelby to win SAAC gold since 1997 out of over 4,400 1968 Shelby's made.

 

The car was sold in 2004 at Barrett Jackson and I bought it in 8/04 at Fast Lane Cars in St Louis for $98,000. The car went through a 3 year restoration completed 04/09. Every time the car was judged I did my best to correct the car and take it to a national show to be judged again and again and again....... correcting those items that were wrong or could be better.

 

I had documented over $415,000 in cost associated with this car including the cost of the car, restoration and ongoing maintenance and improvements .

 

The main reason I decided to sell the car was that I had a bad experience at The Ocean States MCA National Show held in Rhode Island late 2012 and one judge in particular and then the head judge. The car received gold but I felt I had to fight for it. This was a couple of months after I received 98.6% of the total points at SAAC-37 and was also told by the head Judge there that my car was a "World Class Car"

 

Now I read that you "Team Shelby" guys are pissing on my car when you should be happy that I was willing to spend as much as I did trying preserve this car (which I thought that was MCA, SAAC and Teeam Shelby was all about) I still lost over $100,000 on the car. You guys should be happy that the Shelby went for as much as it did as it shows if you put the money and effort in preserving these cars to high standards they can bring big bucks. By the way there were at least 3 parties driving the price up on this Shelby and I don't believe any of these bidders didn't know what they doing.

 

If you guys keep "eating your young" by being negative about the success of 1 Shelby and the the love, time and money one of you co-members was willing to put into it your club is going to "wither on the vine".

 

I am shocked that I read what I read on this forum. It just reinforces my main reason for selling.... guys like you take all the fun out it and if it isn't fun anymore then it isn't worth keeping.

 

Sid Roberts

Car #181 in the SAAC Shelby Registry

 

Well Sid perhaps you missed the photo of the BARRETT-JACKSON AD posted in post number one.

 

EXACT words from Barrett-Jackson's ad are......"and Team Shelby Trailer Concourse standards."

 

Perhaps you coulld point out where the Team Shelby guyss are "pissing" on your car?

 

Interesting first post you made here, my guess is you have issues with someone regarding your car. I don't see how those issues are from any Team Shelby Members.

 

Steve

Edited April 11, 2013 by shelbymotorsports

[JT93]

Well Sid perhaps you missed the photo of the BARRETT-JACKSON AD posted in post number one.

 

EXACT words from Barrett-Jackson's ad are......"and Team Shelby Trailer Concourse standards."

 

Perhaps you could point out where the Team Shelby guyss are "pissing" on your car?

 

Interesting first post you made here, my guess is you have issues with someone regarding your car. I don't see how those issues are from any Team Shelby Members.

 

Steve

 

+1 It clearly states "Team Shelby Concourse Standards" in the ad...

[Woodlandec]

I did not write that ad... and never saw it...Barrett Jackson did that.. I am sorry if if I took the "tone" of the post the wrong way.... but the tone was that the car was not represented correctly and the car was judged by Team Shelby as a DIV II Heritage Car. which is the same as a Trailer Concours Car ( you guys used the same sheets that SAAC used at SAAC-37). It just wasn't clear that you were pissing on the ad and not the car.

 

I read most of the SAAC Forums and no where was this kind on petty BS going on in their forums. Matter of fact it gave most of the members pause and hope that if they put the effort and time and money in the car they can also increase the value of their own Shelbys.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Woodlandec

[MY500SS]

This is the the ad for the Shelby GT500 as it read for lot#762 at the Barrett Jackson Auction in Palm Beach 2013: http://mustangsdaily...son-palm-beach/

 

No where does it say being restored to "Team Shelby" Concours Trailered Standards. It is however it is a Division II car for judging which is "Trailered Concours". As you can see from the description it won Gold at SAAC twice and it scored 98.6% of the total points at SAAC 37 in 2012.If it had been a Division I car it would has been a 'Premier Level" car which is higher than Gold Level.

 

The Shelby won Diamond Level at at the Team Shelby Nationals 2012 and won 4 golds at all MCA Nationals and Grand National Shows in 2011 and 2012. Plus it won 7 Concours D'Elegance wards including a "Team Shelby" 50th anniversary event at Boco Raton, FL in 02/12 where it received Best in Class.

 

The Shelby was the 4th 1968 Shelby to win the "Triple Crown" distinction and was the 21st 1968 Shelby to win SAAC gold since 1997 out of over 4,400 1968 Shelby's made.

 

The car was sold in 2004 at Barrett Jackson and I bought it in 8/04 at Fast Lane Cars in St Louis for $98,000. The car went through a 3 year restoration completed 04/09. Every time the car was judged I did my best to correct the car and take it to a national show to be judged again and again and again....... correcting those items that were wrong or could be better.

 

I had documented over $415,000 in cost associated with this car including the cost of the car, restoration and ongoing maintenance and improvements .

 

The main reason I decided to sell the car was that I had a bad experience at The Ocean States MCA National Show held in Rhode Island late 2012 and one judge in particular and then the head judge. The car received gold but I felt I had to fight for it. This was a couple of months after I received 98.6% of the total points at SAAC-37 and was also told by the head Judge there that my car was a "World Class Car"

 

Now I read that you "Team Shelby" guys are pissing on my car when you should be happy that I was willing to spend as much as I did trying preserve this car (which I thought that was MCA, SAAC and Teeam Shelby was all about) I still lost over $100,000 on the car. You guys should be happy that the Shelby went for as much as it did as it shows if you put the money and effort in preserving these cars to high standards they can bring big bucks. By the way there were at least 3 parties driving the price up on this Shelby and I don't believe any of these bidders didn't know what they were doing as the car was on display all 4 days prior to the auction and all the documentation was present.

 

If you guys keep "eating your young" by being negative about the success of 1 Shelby and the the love, time and money one of your co-members was willing to put into it your club is going to "wither on the vine". Especially if you are a "Regional Director" ( I think comments like you made do a disservice to the club)

 

I am shocked that I read what I read on this forum. It just reinforces my main reason for selling.... guys like you take all the fun out it and if it isn't fun anymore then it isn't worth keeping.

 

Sid Roberts

Car #181 in the SAAC Shelby Registry

 

Yikes........gotta have some pretty deep pockets for this game. Best of luck with the auction Sid.

[Woodlandec]

The car sold for $330,000 The highest price paid for any Non-Charity Car at the Barrett Jackson Palm Beach 2013 Auction.

I believe this is a record for any 1968 Shelby sold in Barrett Jackson history (not including the prototypes or 1 of kind cars)

[Pockdog]

Is there a way to see some pictures of the car?

 

It looks beautifully restored.

 

-Pockdog

[Woodlandec]

This is the link to You Tube showing the car being a Auctioned:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jB967PmfOA

 

The top bid was $300,000 but the buyer knows going in that he pays a 10% buyers commission or $30,000 so the car cost him $330,000.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Woodlandec

[Torch40]

Do we have a copy of our standards for judging? I'm confuzzled here.

[Woodlandec]

I believe the Score Sheets are the same used by SAAC and maybe MCA at least they were the same at the 2012 Team Shelby Nationals and SAAC-37. There was talk that all 3 clubs were going to use the same score sheets and standards last year. Not sure if they completed that yet.

I hope they start using the same standards as it it possible to get a Gold at a MCA National event a month later get Silver at a SAAC National and few months later get Bronze at a Team Shelby event. This did not happen to me but I know this did happen to other guys to one degree or another and it caused much anger to the car owner.

 

My experience only applies to 1968 Shelby DIV II cars. Not sure how the other cars are judged

Edited April 11, 2013 by Woodlandec

[Coachmoe]

I did not write that ad... and never saw it...Barrett Jackson did that.. I am sorry if if I took the "tone" of the post the wrong way.... but the tone was that the car was not represented correctly and the car was judged by Team Shelby as a DIV II Heritage Car. which is the same as a Trailer Concours Car ( you guys used the same sheets that SAAC used at SAAC-37). It just wasn't clear that you were pissing on the ad and not the car.

 

I read most of the SAAC Forums and no where was this kind on petty BS going on in their forums. Matter of fact it gave most of the members pause and hope that if they put the effort and time and money in the car they can also increase the value of their own Shelbys.

 

Sid,

 

With all due respect, none of the posts said anything negative about your car. Personally, I think it's admirable that you put so much into preserving the car.I also, read a lot of different forums and with one exception, I don't really see the pettiness you mention here on Team Shelby.

 

This is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable endeavor and even when I don't win at a show, I still have fun. I'm wondering if you are a little put off at the way your car was judged at some of your shows. I know that can be a sore spot with many people but I don't think you really have an ax to grind with any TS people.

 

Bottom line is your car has been sold and if you choose so, you can walk away from this hobby and move on to another project. Good luck in the future.

[shelbymotorsports]

I did not write that ad... and never saw it...Barrett Jackson did that.. I am sorry if if I took the "tone" of the post the wrong way.... but the tone was that the car was not represented correctly and the car was judged by Team Shelby as a DIV II Heritage Car. which is the same as a Trailer Concours Car ( you guys used the same sheets that SAAC used at SAAC-37). It just wasn't clear that you were pissing on the ad and not the car.

 

I read most of the SAAC Forums and no where was this kind on petty BS going on in their forums. Matter of fact it gave most of the members pause and hope that if they put the effort and time and money in the car they can also increase the value of their own Shelbys.

 

Sid,

 

I wouldn't call it "petty BS" but rather just some chuckles, NOT at your car, but at the Barrett-Jackson ad content. Team Shelby is the official club of Shelby American Inc. and although the Team Shelby name sometimes gets interchanged with the Mid-America Ford Shelby Nationals, these are not one and the same. Your car was not judged by the Team Shelby Club but rather by the Mid-America Ford Shelby group based in Oklahoma.

 

Again no one here at TS was bashing your Shelby, in fact for your Shelby to comand the auction price it did shows just how nice it must be. Team Shelby is the largest, most accepting Shelby enthusiast website out there. Show me another enthusiast website that embraces all Shelby's whether they be vintage Shelby's from the 1960's, Dodge Shelby's from the 1980's, to the Oldsmobile powered Shelby's of the late 90's up to the current new generation of Ford Shelby's. All are accpted here at Team Shelby, something that no other board can claim. Try posting about Dodge Shelby's on that other website and you'll see what the word petty really means.

 

Concours judging is a tough world and not for the faint of heart. You seem to have done very well in that world so all I ask is for you to not judge or label Team Shelby enthusiasts with such a blanket statement of "petty bs".

 

The majority of TS enthusaists accept and admire all Shelby vehicles, get to know us and who knows there may be another Shelby in your future. We'll be here for you

 

Steve

Edited April 12, 2013 by shelbymotorsports

[Woodlandec]

In response to COACHMOE:

This is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable endeavor and even when I don't win at a show, I still have fun. I'm wondering if you are a little put off at the way your car was judged at some of your shows. I know that can be a sore spot with many people but I don't think you really have an ax to grind with any TS people.

 

You are correct. It was a MCA show last year-The Ocean States MCA Nationals held in Rhode Island where I had a bad experiece with an "out of control" judge and then the Head of MCA Judging defending his actions. I still recieved Gold Level but had to fight to get it. At that point the switch clicked in my head and told my restorer when I got back from the show "I will sell the Shelby before I go through Judging like that again"

 

Things work out for a reason... in some ways it was the judging at MCA that prompted me to sell the car and did me a favor in the long run. As all the stars aligned and heaven doors opened up and I was able to sell the car for $330,000 to someone who appreciates the car for what is was and get 75% of my investment back. I really didn't lose anything as I felt I had recieved over $100,000 of joy and fun out it.

 

To be fair to Team Shelby I never had any issues with the club until I saw the earlier post. And you are correct that I should not judge the club by a single post written by 2 out of thousands of members.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Woodlandec

[twobjshelbys]

I watched the auction over the weekend and finished it yesterday. I generally skip forward at 60x until I see a car I'm interested in so watched all three sessions in about 1/4 time (under 2 hours for the first two 7 hour sessions, with Saturday being a split).

 

I saw this car go across the block. My first question was "why at Florida?" Florida is all about old people's cars. Rolls, Bentley, Mercedes. Not real American Muscle Cars. Someone mentioned how few Shelby's there were compared to Scottsdale. There were what 10 Mustangs? 2 or 3 Shelbys? I'll agree that last January's Scottsdale was Mustang/Shelby "bloated" but this auction was conspicuously unbloated the other way. This was a prize car, Scottsdale would have been a better venue. We'll see how Reno turns out but I'll guess there will be more Muscle there, and also Vegas tends to have a good turnout. Anywhere but Florida (and thank goodness that the Orange County is gone, it was also lame.)

 

This car was a wonderful car, but at BJ it falls into the category of "let the other guy spend the money".

 

Did you ask about having a reserve on it? I'd think it would have qualified.

[twobjshelbys]

I really didn't lose anything as I felt I had recieved over $100,000 of joy and fun out it.

 

 

Now that is the most "Positive Mental Attitude" I've ever seen!!! It's really hard to put all of your soul into something like this. But I've concluded I will never make money on a car. The only gain is the pleasure derived from doing the work and enjoying driving it. Most of all is seeing others do the "oooh and aaaah" over it and telling the story that goes along with it. Car nuts like to talk about cars.

 

I wish you could have done better, as I truly think it was worth more than that.

 

Just FYI, I saw a reference to a 3000 series Cobra that was deemed "over restored" and got docked for it.

[Woodlandec]

No I rolled the dice and it was listed as "NO RESERVE"

 

Barrett Jackson did a good job of marketing the hell out of it prior to the auction except for 1 ad that became the topic of this post.

 

I tried to get it into Scottsdale late. They could have got it in but the auction date and time was not good. It worked out better because I live in Ormond Beach, FL about 3 hour drive from the auction plus I was the only "real" Shelby there as opposed to being 1 of a dozen+.

 

I also marketed the car for 4 days prior to it being auctioned along with 2 friends and the restorer-Peter Geisler from Orlando Mustang. The car was well documented ( more than any other car I saw at the auction). We had it on show stands with mirrors. I think what helped was that I had all the reciepts in a documentation book, over 2000+ restoration pictures in 2 books along with them on a flash drive, a history documentation book, a book documenting all the Concours D'Elegance awards and a book documenting all the MCA, SAAC and Team Shelby awards it won along with the score sheets.

 

I was asked over a hundred times what I thought the car would go for. I always answered " not saying.... I do not want to jinx myself" and added "root for the car and say a prayer for me when it goes up on stage". Everyone rooted for the car when it went on stage and I guess God answered the prayer. I even had people that I had spent time with during the 4 days the car was there stop me and ask if they could have a picture taken with me. I spent as much time with everyone that showed an interest in car as possible whether or not they were a bidder or spectator.

 

I am just telling what I did to get top $ for the car and maybe this might help other Shelby owners who have decided to Auction thier cars.

 

In addition I did not restore the car or maintain it myself this was done by Orlando Mustang. You guys out there that restore your own cars have an advantage over me when when it came to the cost of restoring the car. I admire those of you that do the majority of the work yourselves.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Woodlandec

[Denstang65]

Sid,

 

I wouldn't call it "petty BS" but rather just some chuckles, NOT at your car, but at the Barrett-Jackson ad content. Team Shelby is the official club of Shelby American Inc. and although the Team Shelby name sometimes gets interchanged with the Mid-America Ford Shelby Nationals, these are not one and the same. Your car was not judged by the Team Shelby Club but rather by the Mid-America Ford Shelby group based in Oklahoma.

 

Again no one here at TS was bashing your Shelby, in fact for your Shelby to comand the auction price it did shows just how nice it must be. Team Shelby is the largest, most accepting Shelby enthusiast website out there. Show me another enthusiast website that embraces all Shelby's whether they be vintage Shelby's from the 1960's, Dodge Shelby's from the 1980's, to the Oldsmobile powered Shelby's of the late 90's up to the current new generation of Ford Shelby's. All are accpted here at Team Shelby, something that no other board can claim. Try posting about Dodge Shelby's on that other website and you'll see what the word petty really means.

 

Concours judging is a tough world and not for the faint of heart. You seem to have done very well in that world so all I ask is for you to not judge or label Team Shelby enthusiasts with such a blanket statement of "petty bs".

 

The majority of TS enthusaists accept and admire all Shelby vehicles, get to know us and who knows there may be another Shelby in your future. We'll be here for you

 

Steve

 

You said it Steve. I am a member and I don't even own a Shelby. I own a 65' Shelby GT350 clone and I have had nothing but compliments with open arms by every TS member I have met. I truly fill that TS is one of the best clubs out there! I cannot imagine any TS member bashing any one. Just my $02.

[MY500SS]

No I rolled the dice and it was listed as "NO RESERVE"

 

Barrett Jackson did a good job of marketing the hell out of it prior to the auction except for 1 ad that became the topic of this post.

 

I tried to get it into Scottsdale late. They could have got it in but the auction date and time was not good. It worked out better because I live in Ormond Beach, FL about 3 hour drive from the auction plus I was the only "real" Shelby there as opposed to being 1 of a dozen+.

 

I also marketed the car for 4 days prior to it being auctioned along with 2 friends and the restorer-Peter Geisler from Orlando Mustang. The car was well documented ( more than any other car I saw at the auction). We had it on show stands with mirrors. I think what helped was that I had all the reciepts in a documentation book, over 2000+ restoration pictures in 2 books along with them on a flash drive, a history documentation book, a book documenting all the Concours D'Elegance awards and a book documenting all the MCA, SAAC and Team Shelby awards it won along with the score sheets.

 

I was asked over a hundred times what I thought the car would go for. I always answered " not saying.... I do not want to jinx myself" and added "root for the car and say a prayer for me when it goes up on stage". Everyone rooted for the car when it went on stage and I guess God answered the prayer. I even had people that I had spent time with during the 4 days the car was there stop me and ask if they could have a picture taken with me. I spent as much time with everyone that showed an interest in car as possible whether or not they were a bidder or spectator.

 

I am just telling what I did to get top $ for the car and maybe this might help other Shelby owners who have decided to Auction thier cars.

 

In addition I did not restore the car or maintain it myself this was done by Orlando Mustang. You guys out there that restore your own cars have an advantage over me when when it came to the cost of restoring the car. I admire those of you that do the majority of the work yourselves.

 

 

Nicely done Sid..................Congrats.

[ghodge]

I did not write that ad... and never saw it...Barrett Jackson did that.. I am sorry if if I took the "tone" of the post the wrong way.... but the tone was that the car was not represented correctly and the car was judged by Team Shelby as a DIV II Heritage Car. which is the same as a Trailer Concours Car ( you guys used the same sheets that SAAC used at SAAC-37). It just wasn't clear that you were pissing on the ad and not the car.

 

I read most of the SAAC Forums and no where was this kind on petty BS going on in their forums. Matter of fact it gave most of the members pause and hope that if they put the effort and time and money in the car they can also increase the value of their own Shelbys.

 

 

Sid- I did not take any of the posts here as a "knock" on you or the Shelby. Most of us love Shelby's and we are protective of that name. Thanks for taking the time and expense to do the restoration the right way.

[frydguy79]

i watched that car also... and i would give my left ... to have that car in my garage... awsome!!

[Woodlandec]

Well again... This was posted:

 

shelbymotorsports, on 16 March 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

 

Barrett Jackson is running an ad in AutoWeek magazine for their April Palm Beach, FL auction. In the ad B-J is featuring a 1968 Shelby GT500 convertible where they tout the car as being restored to Team Shelby Concourse Trailer Standards.

 

I'm not sure if I've been under a rock or not but has anyone else heard of Team Shelby having judging standards and if so when did this start and what are the standards?

 

See pic below showing the B-J feature car. **********

 

Steve

 

And Torch40 added:

 

This car was also sold previously at BJ. Back in 2004 for 74K

http://www.barrett-j...x?ln=647&aid=48 **********

 

I took this as a slam against the car..... why would someone spend the time to research the car and post that the car sold at BJ in 2004 for 74k if not to slam the car and draw a parallel to a low end Shelby and the incorrect AD?

 

If Torch40 had done a little more research he would have found that the car won Best in Class at the Team Shelby 50th Anversary Event -Concours D'Elegance of Boca Raton in 2012, was the 21st 1968 Shelby to be awarded SAAC Gold since 1997 at SAAC-36 in 2011, scored 98.6% of the total points at SAAC-37, won 4 MCA National and Grand National Gold at all shows attended in 2011 and 2012 and recieved the Diamond Heritage Award in 2012 at the Mid American Ford/Team Shelby Nationals making it the 4th- 68 Shelby to reach the "Triple Crown" distinction (MCA, SAAC and TS Gold) since the Team Shelby Club started. All this imformation was available on the internet-the same place where he found that the car sold in 2004 for 74K.

 

They also spelled SAAC wrong in the AD and I didn't see anywhere in the SAAC forums that got upset or made fun about that. Then someone referred to the car as a pancake wagon:

 

Concourse as opposed to concours....... must be trailered to a mezzanine?

 

Team Shelby trailer standards?........isn't that Gregg Zimmermann's pancake wagon? **********

 

 

Yes it was the car that sold in 2004 for $74,000 but it was not the "same" car that sold in in 2013. Whoever did the restoration on this car prior to 2004 did a poor job and did the car a disservice. I bought the car for not what it was but for what it could be. I spent over $400,000 in the cost of the car, restoration and on-going maintenance and improvements in the car each and everytime it was judged. My goal was never to make money on the car but rather to get the car to the highest level of authenticity it desrved. I believe I met that goal.

 

*******These post were listed prior to the car being auctioned on April 6, 2013 and they could have had a negative affect on someone that was interested in buying the car at the auction that was a Team Shelby Member that read these post thus suppressing the bidding on the car.****************

 

And yes I think it was wrong for Team Shelby Members to PISS DOWN THE BACKS OF OTHER MEMBERS and THEN TELL THEM IT's "RAINING".

 

As a proud Team Shelby Member (I always let that known on my poster describing the car) I guess I am way to sensitive because I put my heart and soul in this car and I am glad I do not have to deal with this anymore. I am thankful that the car was sold to someone that feels the same way about Shelby's and Mustangs as I do as it will placed in a museum/collection where it deserves to be.

 

• 
   
  

 

Edited April 12, 2013 by Woodlandec

[verlyn12]

Being from the 60s high school days era I am always interested in the cars from those days and the unbelievable money they are bringing now. We do not show our Shelby nor do we plan to but enjoy the power and driving it. I so admire people who put the money into the beautiful restorations and certainly the people who appreciate what they are buying and willing to put such big $$ into the cars. We recently attended our first Bash in Las Vegas and I have to say that you couldn't find a nicer group of people from all over the country-the common thread the cars and Shelby. We made some really good friends and hope to attend again.

[Woodlandec]

Not to pile on..... but this came from Pete Disher's Web Site "The Coral Snake" regarding the MCA,SAAC and TS "Triple Crown" :

 

 

 

The Shelby Concours Triple Crown

 

There are three major Shelby / Mustang organizations in the country. They are the Mustang Club of America [MCA], the Shelby American Automobile Club [sAAC] and Team Shelby. Each of these organizations holds at least one national event each year. National events usually attract several hundred cars from all over the country. of these national shows.

 

 

 

These shows have a variety of activities including judged car shows. Individuals that judge Shelbys and Mustangs at these events are considered by many people to be the best experts in the country. The concours events evaluate cars on authenticity, and workmanship. Judges often spend hours reviewing the cars inspecting the smallest of details. Cars that pass this vigorous inspection can truely be called the best of the best. Six Shelbys have won gold awards at all three.

 

Seems like I am not the only one 'confused" about whether or not Team Shelby judges Trailer Concours (Concourse) Shelby's.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Woodlandec

[mikeljgt500kr]

In my years with SAAC (15) and MCA (18), I have never seen "standardized" judging sheets they would send you before the events, and I have also been unsuccessful in getting previous ones if my car was not judged, even though I have had a few National Gold driven concours winners. I have been beat up more than once on the SAAC and MCA fora for asking about where the real standards exist for judging, like written actual descriptions of everything like one of my other organizations, NCRS, has. There you have hundreds of pages of photos, dates, numbers, finishes, nuts, bolts, paint dabs, etc. that are used for judging, as well as a standardized deductions manual and procedure all we judges follow to determine a score against those standards. I asked MCA and SAAC people once about that, and got replies varying from, "don't think you can just take some book and build a winning car", "just ask us the questions as you work and we will answer them (and argue about what is "correct" amongst ourselves)", to "if you could look it all up in a book and not have to have years and years of experience about original cars, what is the point of judging?". I have no idea what Team Shelby does, but if they are as disorganized as SAAC and MCA, I will not show my Shelbys and Mustangs there.

Edited April 16, 2013 by mikeljgt500kr

[Woodlandec]

Mike..... I have a restored 63 Corvette Coupe. I agree with you about SAAC, and MCA and not sure about Team Shelby because they claim they don't even Judge Cars so why have standards? I have the NCRS bible on 63 Corvettes and explains exactly what they are looking for and what needs to be on the car. They even explain what was on an early 63 and a late 63. I have had these conversations like yours with both SAAC and MCA judges and to some extent they agree with me but...... when are they all going to get together to agree what should be in the book and then who is going to write it? I wish I could tell you how many times I changed things on my car after a judge told me something was wrong just to have the next show judge tell me it is wrong now and it was correct the way I had it. Going to as many shows as I did I really got to know the judges and when these issues came up i would try to get all the judges at the time to come up with consensus and give me 1 straight answer. After doing this 6-7 times I finally ended up with a car that scored 98.6% of the total points at SAAC-37. Showing the car and having it judged is not for the faint of heart. It takes perseverence and deep pockets to get there but finally you get real close. If you have someone do the restoration then make sure the restorer has current knowledge of what the judges are looking for. I am not promoting Orlando Mustang but they were with me at most of the shows the past 4 years and talked to the judges in detail about point deductions and took notes. I would like to think they went to "School" on my dollar. If I was to buy another 68 Shelby I would not let anyone else restore it but them because of thier current knowledge of what the judges are looking for. I am sure there are other restorers out there that do the same. Some are even SAAC and MCA judges like Bob Gaines and Tim Lea to name a few.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Woodlandec

[mikeljgt500kr]

Mike..... I have a restored 63 Corvette Coupe. I agree with you about SAAC, and MCA and not sure about Team Shelby because they claim they don't even Judge Cars so why have standards? I have the NCRS bible on 63 Corvettes and explains exactly what they are looking for and what needs to be on the car. They even explain what was on an early 63 and a late 63. I have had these conversations like yours with both SAAC and MCA judges and to some extent they agree with me but...... when are they all going to get together to agree what should be in the book and then who is going to write it? I wish I could tell you how many times I changed things on my car after a judge told me something was wrong just to have the next show judge tell me it is wrong now and it was correct the way I had it. Going to as many shows as I did I really got to know the judges and when these issues came up i would try to get all the judges at the time to come up with consensus and give me 1 straight answer. After doing this 6-7 times I finally ended up with a car that scored 98.6% of the total points at SAAC-37. Showing the car and having it judged is not for the faint of heart. It takes perseverence and deep pockets to get there but finally you get real close. If you have someone do the restoration then make sure the restorer has current knowledge of what the judges are looking for. I am not promoting Orlando Mustang but they were with me at most of the shows the past 4 years and talked to the judges in detail about point deductions and took notes. I would like to think they went to "School" on my dollar. If I was to buy another 68 Shelby I would not let anyone else restore it but them because of thier current knowledge of what the judges are looking for. I am sure there are other restorers out there that do the same. Some are even SAAC and MCA judges like Bob Gaines and Tim Lea to name a few.

 

 

Agreed, we seem to have had many of the same experiences with SAAC, MCA, and NCRS. I enjoy my judging with NCRS, because everything is so thoroughly documented and written down. When I judge I have a bible to tell people what is correct and so no misunderstanding and issues most of the time, except maybe paint and engine pad surfaces and stamps. While getting the Triple Crown for my '67 L71, I could easily show any judge who had issues what the books said, which is how you get consistency in judging, something SAAC and MCA poorly lack. If it isn't written down, the judges can just make it up and mark it down against you, a very bad thing IMO. And I have always been intrigued by the SAAC system, where if you want a Gold you need to have your car restored by a judge or "approved" restorer who knows what the judges will judge. And since it is not documented anywhere, you are stuck with just a few folks to do the work who "know". Ever wonder how that works compared to other cars???? Seems like a pretty cozy club.

[Woodlandec]

Agreed, we seem to have had many of the same experiences with SAAC, MCA, and NCRS. I enjoy my judging with NCRS, because everything is so thoroughly documented and written down. When I judge I have a bible to tell people what is correct and so no misunderstanding and issues most of the time, except maybe paint and engine pad surfaces and stamps. While getting the Triple Crown for my '67 L71, I could easily show any judge who had issues what the books said, which is how you get consistency in judging, something SAAC and MCA poorly lack. If it isn't written down, the judges can just make it up and mark it down against you, a very bad thing IMO. And I have always been intrigued by the SAAC system, where if you want a Gold you need to have your car restored by a judge or "approved" restorer who knows what the judges will judge. And since it is not documented anywhere, you are stuck with just a few folks to do the work who "know". Ever wonder how that works compared to other cars???? Seems like a pretty cozy club.

 

 

I think anyone who restores cars can do it.... but you need to to show the car time after time after time after time and get it judged to find out what is wrong. Some things may be impossible to fix because of cost. I was just trying to get a comfortable margin so I knew the car would always get Gold. There were a few things on my car that I knew I was going to lose 1 point or 1/2 point on that were not worth the cost to fix. So my car would never be a "perfect car" and near perfect was good enough for me. In the long run I still think it is better to have a restorer that has vast show and judging experience restore the car or at least have one as a consultant that you can call for advice.I was lucky that Orlando Mustang was 10 miles from my home and I did not know that they existed prior to purchasing my Shelby and I could be over watching the Shelby being restored every day if I choose to do so.This is probably why it cost so much to restore as if you watch the shop rate is 50% more and if you help it's twice as much.

 

Most of the judges were available at the show or by phone to answer questions regarding "how to fix something" I found judgesTim Lea, Bob Gaines and Jeff Speegle to be most helpful along with the lead judges at all the SAAC Events. Also Pete Dishers Web Site "The Coralsnake" was a great resource for hard to find information on 68 Shelby's. The MCA and SAAC forums were a big help also.

 

Another area that the judges have descrection on is how much they weigh the points against something that they think is wrong with the car. Something minor they can just write a "comment" with no points deducted. If it was something more serious they would hit me in the 1-3 point range. My problem at the MCA National show in RI was that the judge would find 1 thing wrong out of hundred things that could be wrong in a 20 point category and hit me with a 5 point deduction.

 

Over all I found most of the judges to be fair and helpful at all SAAC, MCA and Team Shelby Events. I had the right attitude - I was getting the car judged so I could learn and make it better. Some people just want to win a Gold and then they are done improving the car. That I guess would be ok with me if the car scored 100% of the points. But then again I would probably get the car judged again and again just to make sure.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Woodlandec