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351W heads on 289-302 Block 1969 FORD MuscleParts


shelbyeuropa

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There was a driver boycott of the first Talladega 500 and there was the start of a union, the Professional Driver's Association (PDA). Firestone did not supply any tires for the race because they felt they could not make a safe tire to run over 200. All the top drivers boycotted the race. But they were up against "Big Bill" France that ruled NASCAR with an iron fist. He made it very clear that if they did not return they would all be banned for life and racing would go on. In those days a lot of purses for a race were only about a couple of thousand dollars for the winner and the 60 Daytona 500 winner received only about 38,000. If you were killed NASCAR gave the widow 15,000.00. Big Bill recognized NASCAR was a business and a family owned business as it is today. He made it clear there would not be a union. Just like today he wanted competitive racing so he did not allow the SOHC which was also actually a HEMI engine. I don't think it was as much favoritism, in those days, as trying to maintain some semblance of close racing. Now from what I have heard and read the real favoritism started after 1970 or 71 when dropped out of NASCAR on very short notice. Big Bill took that personal and there has been extreme favoritism against Ford since that day. Yes Ford has won a few championships, and a lot of races, but nowhere near what Chevy has done. And no one cheats more than, IMO, the Hendrick cars. When the Hendrick cars were caught cheating in 2011 or 2012 they appealed the penalty. The appeal was presented and decided by........a former GM executive.

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In 1969 During the time FORD had decided to have HM make I believe 2 FORD King Cobras and one Mercury something? The Engineering could not sell the design to the Ford Ex to justify the Cost to gain so little in Coefficient that they scrapped the project and just keep racing the 1969 Boss 429 Taladega's for Two (1971) more years.

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And Ford dropped out of racing at the end of the 1970 season to concentrate on emissions. And they were going broke from racing including the Le Mans series in the early to mid-60's. It was November of 1970 when Ford quit. Teams that used the Talladega or other Fords in all racing did so at their own expense.

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I stand corrected FORD Stop all High Performance in 1970 the 1971 Boss 351, 429CJ, 429SCJ was the last of that era. 1970 were the last year for the aero cars plus the rules were change for the engine size to 305.

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It was truly the end of an era. There is nothing like the sound and feel (rumble) of an American big block. Nothing like a Ford 427, 428 or 429. Or even those pesky hemis and 396/427 chevys.CS mentioned that Ford accountants came to him during the Le Mans projects telling him that he was driving Ford in to bankruptcy. Henry the Deuce was so fixated on beating Ferrari that little else mattered. After winning Le Mans, Indy, Nascar, NHRA and more Ford had to quit abruptly just to put all the engineering money in to emissions to save the company.

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Whatever Ford puts in the 2014 and beyond Mustang I hope they can adjust the front / rear balance of the vehicle. The current Mustang is too nose heavy which effects handling and traction. The camaro has about 3% less of the weight on its front wheels. And Ford needs to be able to incorporate larger tires on the rear end without sticking beyond the fenders, as Chevy has done. That is part of the reason why the new ZL 1 Camaro and other Camaros are quick. I still don't like Chevy but they do have some good ideas here.

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  • 7 months later...

bringing this thread back to life... bought 1974 351W heads and cam to put on my 1971 302.... The heads are complete- do I need to change my intake manifold at all? Like change it from a 302 intake manifold to a 351W manifold? And exhaust- will my 302 headers work on the 351W heads? AAANNDDDD clearance... I don't want ANY SLAP when I crank that engine over- will clearance be an issue or is it almost the same as the 302?

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bringing this thread back to life... bought 1974 351W heads and cam to put on my 1971 302.... The heads are complete- do I need to change my intake manifold at all? Like change it from a 302 intake manifold to a 351W manifold? And exhaust- will my 302 headers work on the 351W heads? AAANNDDDD clearance... I don't want ANY SLAP when I crank that engine over- will clearance be an issue or is it almost the same as the 302?

I'm going to guess that your 71 302 heads will outflow the 74 351 heads. Depends on what they are. The 351 manifold will not work, you need to use the 302 manifold. The heads are the same as far as passages and ports, etc. Just make sure that the manifold is port matched (same size intake runners) to the heads. The exhaust is the same, your 302 headers will work. Can't speak to the clearance other than if they are just a stock '74 head, there will not be any issues. Again, you should have a machine shop look at the heads to make sure that they are good, but I'm guessing that your stock heads are better flowing compared to the restrictions that took place in 74, but without seeing them, can't tell. There are way to many different chamber size heads and piston combinations out there to be able to say for sure.

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thanks for the quick reply Jeff! I believe you are right about the flow characteristics on the 351 as the EPA did start to screw stuff up- I did read that the 351 heads do have a larger (higher cc) combustion than the 302's but I could be wrong in believe that would give me any gains. Shoot, at any rate, at least I now know that they would work- but maybe I shouldn't put them to work. Would pictures of the heads themselves help? I'll be cleaning them up this week (so I can CLEARLY see the casting number) and I may upload some photos.

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Realize that when you use 351W heads on the 302 block that you use the intake gaskets for the 351 to match the water jacket passages and the end gaskets are from the 302 intake set . 351W used 1/2" head bolts not 7/16" like on the 302 , combustion chambers are larger on the 351W ( 58cc and 64cc ) check the exhaust ports for a raised casting where an air injection port tube would have been drilled out but never done . 351W automotive heads are different than 351W marine heads - check casting #s I may have some old Ford literature on this but it's buried in the garage somewhere . GT40 heads came out in the 60's originally then stopped and a second generation came back out in the late 80's / early 90's . Like mentioned before - the biggest advantage was to using the 351W heads was to put in the chevy valves (1.94" intakes and 1.625 exhaust ) and then be able to open the exhaust ports up to improve the flow ( that's where the biggest restriction was ) . I know where my old set is that I used to have on my HIPO 289 that was in my race car back in the 90s - we were not allowed to run aluminum heads back then or roller rocker arms . AHH the memories .

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Wow, brings back memories!I bought a Set of 351W Partially Ported & Polished Heads From Drake Viscombe & Vindicator Racing years ago for my 65' 289 4 speed Fastback....never got a chance to put them on because I traded the car for a brand new 90' LX notch (Wild Strawbery color was cool).Still have the Heads...

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Woah Albino500.. thats a lot of information... I got my casting numbers this morning- they are both D80E... I might as well just use these to practice porting. I do, however, have the 351W cam... can that be used in the 302 to achieve any benefit?

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D8OE means that they are 1978 heads . As far as the cam goes the only benefit is the firing order will be changed to a 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 . Depending on the year and profile of the cam you may lose power . The heads are OK for practicing porting but not worth putting any money into . JMO

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Camshaft Stamping reads (backwards B)F... which indicates that it is a 69-71 351W cam with Duration: i-256 e-270 and Lift: i-425 e-450 with a 33deg overlap. Is it worth it? My 71 302 camshaft specs are Duration: i-266 e-244 and Lift: i-360 e-380 with a 36deg overlap.

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  • 3 months later...

I could be wrong but, the GT40 head has not been around as long as some of us have been racing

I caught this post within an internet search, and it seemed like a very odd comment to be made on a Shelby oriented site, so I figured I would check out the thread, and ended up registering on the site.

 

I think you may be referring to the late GT40/GT40P heads.

 

The late GT40/GT40P castings should not be mixed up with the 1960s Lemans and GT-40 efforts which Ford offered through their over the counter programs and race programs. While the heads shared similar intake port geometry to the 289 head, they were designed and cast with a larger 145cc port volume, matching the best 289 porting profiles/templates of the day from Ford, Shelby, RHS, and Mondello. The exhaust port was significantly different, with very large and squared-up ports. The heads used 1.875/1.625 valves. For a good point of reference, valves that were left over from these efforts made their way into the late 60's Ford Off Highway Parts Program (as shown in some of the images at the top of this thread), and then later, they found their way into the earliest Ford Motorsports catalogs in the early/mid 1980's. They were designated as 'GT40 Type' parts. There were a few other left overs as well, such as the 9 position crank gear that fit the stock style (non roller) timing chain.

 

The head went by several names. The most common names were the GT40 head or 289 Race head, but they were also called the 289 HD (Heavy Duty) head. I have seen them referred to as the Trans-Am head on occasion. The most typical casting number is C6FE-A. Recognize the similarity to the LeMans camshaft C7FE-A numbering. A very similar large squared exhaust ports found its way in to Tunnel Port head design. The 145cc intake ports were precursors for the 351W heads introduced in 1969. Likewise, the late GT40/GT40P intake ports used a very similar 145cc design.

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You can also use an even larger chevy intake and exhaust valve, if I remember correctly, up to 2.02 intake and 1.6 exhaust.

A 2.02 will physically fit in most of the factory SBF chambers, but the valve positioning in the chamber shrouds the valve badly, making it counter productive. Fly cutting, and laying back the chamber wall to the bore diameter works, but at the expense of adding significant volume to the chamber; these motors are already hard to find compression without dome tops. Case in point, most every time a proper racing or performance oriented build with serious head work was done, dome tops were used. This wasn't because they were always striving for a 12:1 static compression, but simply to raise the compression to a respectable level. Even the ford kit for installing the 351W heads on a 289/302 included dome top pistons, enabling an easier 10:1 compression. Those kits included the stepped head bolts, pistons, a hyd version of the hipo 289 camshaft.

 

Sometimes, 'will it fit?' needs to be evaluated by 'will it really work?'. The limit is around 1.90", maybe stretching it to 1.94", on the intake side (in factory casting 289/302/E7/351W/GT40/GT40p), for proper flow behavior, unless a very serious effort is undertaken. Aftermarket heads with different chamber contours and valve positioning can use considerably larger intake valves. Likewise, the Tunnel Port, Gurney Weslake, and certainly the 302 Boss and 2v/4v 351 Cleveland heads had huge valves, but the chamber and valve positioning were different in these heads. The questions at hand deal with the conventional 289/302/E-series/351/etc factory heads.

 

The exhaust valve (factory castings) can go on up to the 1.63 range, but contrary to old thought, the exhaust is not really the huge hurdle it was forever thought to be. That was more a product of the valve event technology and trends of the time that dictated higher Exh/Int ratios. In general if you are looking to really rework the factory castings 125cc or 145cc varieties, a 1.9/1.6 arrangement still is the most workable, in terms of chamber flow and unshrouding. In NHRA/IHRA super stock, the 125cc variety heads with finished/ported volumes in the 144cc-155cc regions (depending on the NHRA allowance for the particular casting) are getting about 210-230 cfm 28"H2O, and thats using the mandated OEM 1.78/1.46 head diameters. A european FIA racer friend that I designed some camshafts for, had a set of professionally ported original GT40 heads (ported and modeled by a Renault F1 shop- very expensive work) that obtained quite high peak flow numbers around 245 cfm (28"); if i am remembering correctly,

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