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Long Tube Headers and Whipple 550


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Does anyone have these Kooks long tube headers with the Whipple 550 on their SGT?

 

http://www.americanmuscle.com/kooks-header-catted-xpipe-0509manual.html

 

 

I am think about having these installed and want to know the pros and cons? Is it worth the $'s?

 

Thanks

TNTChris

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Does anyone have these Kooks long tube headers with the Whipple 550 on their SGT?

 

http://www.americanm...0509manual.html

 

 

I am think about having these installed and want to know the pros and cons? Is it worth the $'s?

 

Thanks

TNTChris

 

I don't know about the long-tubes but i installed the jba shorties on my car with the 550 h.p. whipple and i couldn't really feel any difference. i had my headers installed before it was s/charged and i didn't do a before and after dyno so i can't tell you how much h.p. gain i received. The headers are a very expensive mod and i doubt you will get much bang for your buck. You already have the best mod possible and 15 or 20 h.p. won't matter to much. My car dynoed at 502 rwhp at about 62 degrees. Good-Luck.
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I don't know about the long-tubes but i installed the jba shorties on my car with the 550 h.p. whipple and i couldn't really feel any difference. i had my headers installed before it was s/charged and i didn't do a before and after dyno so i can't tell you how much h.p. gain i received. The headers are a very expensive mod and i doubt you will get much bang for your buck. You already have the best mod possible and 15 or 20 h.p. won't matter to much. My car dynoed at 502 rwhp at about 62 degrees. Good-Luck.

 

 

If it helps any, I have the Whipple 550 with out the header upgrades, and I am dyno out at around 440hp, but we could push it a little more if desired, so you might be looking at more than a 15 to 20 hp increase if your dyno out at 502

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Personally, unless the bottom end is built, I see no real reason to do any other mods, the whipple puts the car at the limits of "safe" as it is... plus you'd need to get a custom tune and IMO one of the best parts of the whipple is the FRPP tune that seems to be pretty safe...

 

I do like headers though :)

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i went with the ARH long tube headers on my 2013 shelby GT350... its the 624hp S/C....... 3" X pipe.. cat delete.. into factory shelby borla exaust. it sounds great, NOT too loud till you get into it... it goes to LIVERNOIS MOTOR SPORTS mid feb, for JLT big air CAI, then on dyno for their in house tune... they feel it will be at 625 + rwhp.. car has 88 miles on it.

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Personally, unless the bottom end is built, I see no real reason to do any other mods, the whipple puts the car at the limits of "safe" as it is... plus you'd need to get a custom tune and IMO one of the best parts of the whipple is the FRPP tune that seems to be pretty safe...

I do like headers though :)

 

If you use the Ford Racing tune you can install headers without a re-tune. The MAF system compensates within its ROA.

 

I put a Whipple 2.9L (750HP) kit on mine plus a set of FRPP headers and Roush "Off-Road" extreme exhaust without needing a re-flash.

 

But if you use one of the aftermarket tunes/tuners that don't go by Ford's recommended tuning process (MAF calibration), you will most likely need a re-flash.

 

Bottom line: Ask your tuner if you need to or not.

 

But I *know* you don't have to with a Ford OEM or Ford Racing tune.

 

 

Phill

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Personally, unless the bottom end is built, I see no real reason to do any other mods, the whipple puts the car at the limits of "safe" as it is... plus you'd need to get a custom tune and IMO one of the best parts of the whipple is the FRPP tune that seems to be pretty safe...

 

I do like headers though :)

 

 

Jason, sorry for my ignorance but what do you mean by built bottom end?

 

Thanks

Chris

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Chris, I mean pistons, rods, and in some cases cranks that can handle making more than 550hp. Our engines seem to live with the whipple and frpp tune, but you may end up with a paper weight pushing it much further....

 

Agree. The original question was is it worth the $. Not if your engine blows. The frpp tune we have is safe. I probably have 502rwhp also on account of my one piece d.s. You might squeeze out a little more h.p. with long-tubes but the more h.p.you get then the better chance of losing an engine. I feel i'm pretty close to my safe limits now and don't want to press my luck.If you had the gt500 then no problem but these stock blocks on these 4.6 engines are not made for much over 500 rwhp.good-luck.
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Ok guys help me out with my logic here. I'm no where close to being an expert on engines, but the amount of HP produced is not what stresses the engine. It's the effort needed to produce the HP is what stresses the engine. So by my logic, adding long tubes will help the engine produce HP more efficently (with less effort = less stress). So, if long tubes add 10-20hp and the engine is under no more stress than it was without wouldn't the concern for the bottom end be misplaced?

 

As long as the boost level is not increased (cylinder pressure) the amount of HP produced isn't a factor.

 

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Agree. The original question was is it worth the $. Not if your engine blows. The frpp tune we have is safe. I probably have 502rwhp also on account of my one piece d.s. You might squeeze out a little more h.p. with long-tubes but the more h.p.you get then the better chance of losing an engine. I feel i'm pretty close to my safe limits now and don't want to press my luck.If you had the gt500 then no problem but these stock blocks on these 4.6 engines are not made for much over 500 rwhp.good-luck.

 

 

I thought blowing the motor was a pretty big "con" lol

 

Ok guys help me out with my logic here. I'm no where close to being an expert on engines, but the amount of HP produced is not what stresses the engine. It's the effort needed to produce the HP is what stresses the engine. So by my logic, adding long tubes will help the engine produce HP more efficently (with less effort = less stress). So, if long tubes add 10-20hp and the engine is under no more stress than it was without wouldn't the concern for the bottom end be misplaced?

 

As long as the boost level is not increased (cylinder pressure) the amount of HP produced isn't a factor.

 

 

Well... I am NOT any kind of expert, seems like I learn something new every day, but just from a basic theory standpoint, to make more power at the crank, the piston has to come down with more force and/or speed. Efficiencies that make parts lighter or take away friction or harmonics could free up usable power that's already being made, but I THINK that changing actual airflow creates a bigger ( also more efficient) bang and that does create more stress.

 

Im open to arguments and learning more though!

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increasing hp by adding headers comes from increased exhaust gas scavenging which more completely fills the cylinder with air/fuel. this increase in air/fuel charge in the cylinder that creates additional power also creates more force on the piston, in turn adding mechanical strain to the rotating assemlby (piston, crank, rods, bearings)

 

hope that helps

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I see exhaust as 'power freeing'. I absolutely agree there are mods that add power and those that free power. The exhaust releases cylinder pressure.

 

Think of a water hose with the water turned on full and you are using the end of your thumb to spray the water. The hose is your cylinder. The water is the exaust gas. Your thumb is the exhaust header. You apply pressure the end of the hose (cylinder) with your thumb (header) by restricting the water (exhaust gas). You can actually feel the hose (cylinder) pressure increase. Release your thumb (header) and the pressure within the hose (cylinder) decreases. The exact same amount of water (exhaust gas) leaves the hose (cylinder) in both situations all that changes is the pressure on the water (exhaust gas) and the hose (cylinder).

 

The exhaust stroke is the result of the power stroke on an adjacent cylinder. If there is less force required by the power stroke to move an adjacent cylinder's exhaust stroke because there is less exhaust pressure than the energy needed prior to the header mod can now be applied elsewhere. Elsewhere being HP.

 

Yes, I may be way over thinking this.

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increasing hp by adding headers comes from increased exhaust gas scavenging which more completely fills the cylinder with air/fuel. this increase in air/fuel charge in the cylinder that creates additional power also creates more force on the piston, in turn adding mechanical strain to the rotating assemlby (piston, crank, rods, bearings)

 

hope that helps

 

 

That makes since to me, but only if there is more air and fuel to draw in by the scavaging. If the intake charge and fuel is not increased then all that has been done is to decrease exhausts pressure. Correct?

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Yeah, you may have a point about less resistance on the exhaust stroke, but there generally IS more air/fuel coming in as a result of headers.

 

 

Ok, I'm still learning here. So, where is that extra fuel/air prior to the header mod? It doesn't sit and wait behind the intake valve for the next stroke. I'm assuming that the tune (a good tune) and SC only provides enough air and fuel for the cylinder to safely consume.

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A built bottom end is also the same as FORGED pistons, FORGED rods, and a FORGED crank. Our pistons and rods are not forged and will not handle the additional stress. Remember that Ford made these parts to handle 300 hp for the Mustang GT. When you jump to 550 you have nearly doubled the hp. Another analogy is like a hand grenade with the pin pulled. How long can you hold down the spoon. If the engine blows and you send a rod through the block you may have destroyed much of the collectible value of your SGT.

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Jason, unfortunitly I'm on my phone with next to no signal so I'll have to watch the vid later. Now, I may be miss interupting what your saying. I understand that a quicker down stroke will draw more vacuum which in turn allows for air/fuel to drawn in quicker. However, more air and fuel can only be drawn in if its made available and its been compressed. The internal volume of the cylinder has not been increased so I'm struggling with the idea that more air and fuel is drawn in simply from the increased vacuum. As for burning more fuel, I've always seen that as a result of atomization and air fuel mix not the necessarily the quantity of fuel and air.

 

Again, I'm assuming the engine has already been tuned to allow for the maximum air fuel the engine can safely consume.

I'm still thinking about this. I may have draw some diagrams of how I understand everything works and why I'm stuck on the idea that headers should not place more stress on and engine.

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OK,

 

1, the blower is pushing say 12 psi with your pulley, when the intake valve opens, it will fill the cylinder to 12 psi of air/fuel, tune doesn't control this or the actual volume of fresh mixture, it only expects this within a range of parameters. Additional volume of mixture (at whatever psi the blower is set at) is constantly available in the manifold, just waiting for a lower pressure cylinder to open to rush into it.

 

2. at TDC, there is still a volume of space in the chamber that the spent mixture would remain, except for the scavenging effect of the exhaust headers. If the scavenging doesn't "suck" all the spent mixture out, then during the following intake stroke, not as much fresh mixture can be brought in because there is leftovers from the prior burn taking up space.

 

Does that help? basically there IS a static volume that can "fit" in the cylinder at X psi, so getting the burnt stuff out more completely/efficiently actually causes a better intake charge which is where at least some of the extra power comes from when going with headers.

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Ok. I was assuming all exhaust gas had been evacuated prior to the mod. I guess it is a bit optimistic to think the engine is that efficent, hence the benifit of the header.

 

So, then it would be possible to reduce the boost and let the exhaust pick up the slack, which I assume would likely be counter productive when considering the effort needed to add the headers, if it's even possible obtain a net zero effect on the power between the two.

 

Thanks man, it's now clear as mud.

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The reason I question the long term value is if the engine has a serial number, as in the old days, then it is registered to the vin and if they do not match it lowers the value. That is why you hear the term "numbers matching" at places like Barrett Jackson, etc.

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I could be wong but I'm fairly certain modern cars do not have serials on the engines. Or, at least do not have numbers that match the chassis. The engine numbers only relate to thier time of production and such and do not tie to any particular vehicle.

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