sgt1020 Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 My Shelby (Fays2) Watts link is on its way. I realized that there are only 3 adjustment brackets on the unit compared to the 7 adjustment levels on the unit you can buy from Jim Fays directly. I spoke with him and he told me Shelby prefers the 3 slot adjustability because of how they setup the cars suspension (Rear sway bar, lowering springs etc.) I would set the Shelby Watts Link to the lowest slot so that it feels more planted and stable (Which is what the Watts Link is there to do). Just looking to hear what anyone who has experience with Watts Links has to say about the 3 slot adjustably vs the 7. Is the 7 even necessary? -Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Brandon, Since you are going with the 3 hole - place the pivot bolt through the lowest setting . The seven hole unit allows for a wider adjustment range ( mostly lower ) of the roll center but as Jim pointed out to you there are some rear sway bars ( Hotchkis adjustable) that have an interference problem with the frame bracket since it hangs lower . When the vehicle sits lower ( from lowering springs ) and one uses a larger rear sway bar ( plus the shape of the bends of the bar ) when the rear suspension goes up/down the center portion of the bar swings forward/back and can hit the watts frame section . Most will not need or take the time to dial in the chassis to where you would use the lower holes on the 7 position unit so with that being said - stick with the 3 hole unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch40 Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Brandon, Since you are going with the 3 hole - place the pivot bolt through the lowest setting . The seven hole unit allows for a wider adjustment range ( mostly lower ) of the roll center but as Jim pointed out to you there are some rear sway bars ( Hotchkis adjustable) that have an interference problem with the frame bracket since it hangs lower . When the vehicle sits lower ( from lowering springs ) and one uses a larger rear sway bar ( plus the shape of the bends of the bar ) when the rear suspension goes up/down the center portion of the bar swings forward/back and can hit the watts frame section . Most will not need or take the time to dial in the chassis to where you would use the lower holes on the 7 position unit so with that being said - stick with the 3 hole unit. Nothing about pinion angle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Nothing about pinion angle? Sorry but no, not on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Saleen215 Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I have a GT500 with the FRPP suspension and run the standard Fays2 piece 1 hole below center and no rear sway bar. I don't think the Shelby piece allows enough rear roll center adjustment so I opted for the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 DSG Snake Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 How about the Fays2 vs. Whiteline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 The Whiteline unit only has 2 positions and its lower setting is not as low as the Shelby Fays2 unit . The other thing to point out is that differential mounted pivot points for watts linkage change their relationship to the chassis when the suspension goes up/down while a watts linkage which has its pivot point mounted onto a chassis mounted frame stays consistent to the chassis . Either way they both keep the axle centered to the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89Saleen215 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 The Whiteline does look to be a better design at the diff cover as opposed to the original Saleen design, however, I think it could be argued that this a discussion of apples vs oranges as they work "differently" (I use this loosely) to try to accomplish the same thing. I'm not qualified to make a definitive statement, but I would "think" that changing the roll center at the diff cover is different than trying to change it with a chassis mounted Watt's. The inherent differences might mean that the Whiteline product set at the lowest setting might be equivalent to the Shelby piece at it's lowest setting or perhaps the Whiteline's lowest setting has a greater roll center change because it's being done at the diff instead of the chassis. I'm sure there's something here...just need someone a little more brighter than me at this hour to post it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 The Whiteline unit only has 2 positions and its lower setting is not as low as the Shelby Fays2 unit . The other thing to point out is that differential mounted pivot points for watts linkage change their relationship to the chassis when the suspension goes up/down while a watts linkage which has its pivot point mounted onto a chassis mounted frame stays consistent to the chassis . Can you further develop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 OK - so when a watts has the pivot mounted to the chassis it keeps the roll center consistent with the center of gravity ( CG ) while a diff cover mounted one is somewhat constant with the ground . With a chassis mounted pivot , under braking ,the rear of the chassis rises and the rear roll center gets higher which helps the car turn in . Also as you drive/accelerate off the corner, the rear goes into compression thus the rear roll center drops and helps the driver. Note ; Move the pivot point UP for reducing understeer and move it down for reducing oversteer. These are to work in conjunction with the anti-sway bars. Rear roll centers are typically set somewhere between 8" to 12" . This is where most chassis builders choose the mount to be on the chassis instead of the diff cover and be able to rotate the axle clamps to make the watts linkage arms parallel not just to each other but to the axle when sitting ( just like using adjustable end links on a sway bar to level out the ends of the bar ) to keep it within it's proper location of it's arch and the load effect on the pivot . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clark17357 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Thanks for your straightforward description of how the two approaches differ. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Brandon, Let us know what you think after you get it installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt1020 Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Brandon, Let us know what you think after you get it installed. It arrived Friday afternoon. Won't have it installed for another few weeks since it's so cold. Will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt1020 Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Brandon, Let us know what you think after you get it installed. Installed it today, took about 2.5 hours. The car feels much more planted and stable around turns/corners. Definitely a big difference. Corners I used to take in 2nd gear I can now take punching it in third. The rear is very controlled, settled and gives me much more confidence cornering. I'm VERY happy with it. Now, once my Koni Yellows go on the car I'll really be tearing through the corners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Brandon, Good to hear. On the Koni yellows I run one turn up from full soft on the street and then turn them one turn more ( 2 turns up from full soft ) for track time. Might I suggest something to add to your list ? Think about the Steeda 13" rear brake upgrade and Hawk HPS pads front and rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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