Kevin Patten Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 I'm getting ready to make a change up to my 2007 GT500's suspension . Not really sure why because the car does very nice as a street/track car , is well balanced , but I think that there is more to get out of it . I really never intended to find the limits of the chassis which probably would make it a track only car and ruin it for the street . So I thought I would throw out a couple of topics to hear what others have experienced with their 2007-2009 . I know that some will say " just go buy a 2013 " but that's not going to happen. So let's start with has anyone gone from an UCA over to a torque arm and what did you experience . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingram4868 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 I've never installed either one on one of my cars but I have talked with a number of Griggs torque arm owners and they just love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch40 Posted December 25, 2012 Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 I've never installed either one on one of my cars but I have talked with a number of Griggs torque arm owners and they just love them. Yup, and he knows one of those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2012 Torch40 what difference did you notice when you went over to the torque arm ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsirisGT500 Posted December 26, 2012 Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I went to a BMR UCA adjustable poly bushing and their mount and the axle bushing. By my eyeballs it elimitated axle roll on the dyno on my 643 rwhp car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted December 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 Right now I have the BMR LCA's , a Steeda spherical bearing at the top of the differential , BMR adjustable UCA and BMR upper mount , and a Fays2 watts linkage . My plan is to upgrade/change over to a Griggs torque arm ( which works with the Fays2 watts ) and go to Koni coil over shocks in the rear . I am hoping to gain in the change by now being able to set the rear ride height where I want it and to be able to change out the springs to get the ride quality to where I want it and be able to accelerate harder on corner exit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh2o Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I've had a Griggs Torque Arm for almost 2 years now. Other than a slight increase in gear noise, transmitted through the arm, my experience has been extremely positive. I had severe axle hop, prior to having the torque arm installed. SInce the installation, the axle hop has completely disappeared, Most effective suspension change I've made to the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 I've had the Griggs TA on two of my cars, one with over 800 hp and it was amazing. It was going from a 4 link suspension and I have yet to put it on my current GT500, but I'm still weighing the options of which one. Cortex has a new TA also, and although I worship the ground Bruce Griggs walks on, Cortex seems to have the S197's figured out pretty well. I've talked with Jim Guthrie at length about geometry and I really feel like the TA is very much underrated STILL... and even more so on the S197 chassis. Now I know I'm gonna get flack from a lot of others, but I have no financial stake in selling anything and I do track my car. Griggs: Cortex: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWZ Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Contact Van Collier @ Revan Racing @ (561)445-7702. He will go over the advantages to both & help you decide on the best route for you to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluscher Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I've had both and the torque arm made a huge difference. You will experience a bit of NVH increase, but I was surprised at how minimal the increase was given what I had heard. I'd say it's probably the best mod I've done. With the TA the rear just dug and bit under hard acceleration, rather than raising the rear and immediately blowing off the tires. In cornering the car is far more centered, and both understeer and overseer were notably reduced. The car became far less tail happy. My first time out to the drag strip in over 20 years on drag radials I ran a high 1.6 short time and went 11.53 at 123 with an upper pulley only. On the road course the difference is pretty much night and day. Given Van a call at Revan for more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Cortex: Is the Cortex one bolt in? It looks like it might be. If it is, I'll be all over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 It is, no welding. Is the Cortex one bolt in? It looks like it might be. If it is, I'll be all over that. It is, no welding required. I believe you still need to do some work on the exhaust however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hmmm... What needs to be done to the exhaust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HyperStangs Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Pretty sure you need to move the crossover forward a tic on some exhausts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingram4868 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 This is one of those FWIW posts :huh: but in 1995 our Mustang Cobras could not compete against the Camaro in SCCA stock auto-x because they had a factory torque arm and we did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Pretty sure you need to move the crossover forward a tic on some exhausts. Thanks for the info. Looks like this is on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I've had a Griggs Torque Arm for almost 2 years now. Other than a slight increase in gear noise, transmitted through the arm, my experience has been extremely positive. I had severe axle hop, prior to having the torque arm installed. SInce the installation, the axle hop has completely disappeared, Most effective suspension change I've made to the car. Do you think that the noise issue is any worse than having the UCA w/poly bushings ? I've had both and the torque arm made a huge difference. You will experience a bit of NVH increase, but I was surprised at how minimal the increase was given what I had heard. I'd say it's probably the best mod I've done. With the TA the rear just dug and bit under hard acceleration, rather than raising the rear and immediately blowing off the tires. In cornering the car is far more centered, and both understeer and overseer were notably reduced. The car became far less tail happy. My first time out to the drag strip in over 20 years on drag radials I ran a high 1.6 short time and went 11.53 at 123 with an upper pulley only. On the road course the difference is pretty much night and day. Thanks for the input . Pretty sure you need to move the crossover forward a tic on some exhausts. This is my understanding also after talking to John at Griggs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavannahSnake Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Pretty sure you need to move the crossover forward a tic on some exhausts. On a 2010, is there aftermarket H or X pipe that clears it or does it need a custom made cross over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 My exhaust is completely stock. It occasionally will contact the T/A so I'll have my exhaust guy put in a straighter chunk of pipe on the right side. Torque arm added a little NVH but there is no more squat or dive, and it accelerates and stops arrow straight now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 My exhaust is completely stock. It occasionally will contact the T/A so I'll have my exhaust guy put in a straighter chunk of pipe on the right side. Torque arm added a little NVH but there is no more squat or dive, and it accelerates and stops arrow straight now. Nice set up ! Couldn't help noticing that the 2010 has an "H" pipe and not a stamped "X" pipe like the 2007-2009 GT500s. Also appears that you have the Griggs "SS" package on the front ( red Prothane bushings on the front LCA rear bushings ) if I'm seeing that right in your picture . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Whoa a bolt in torque arm by cortex???? Can someone elaborate more on this? Has anyone installed it? Can anyone comment if 2010+ shelbys need the exhaust moved at all? Now I'm kinda regretting getting the BMR UCA. Is the noise the cortex causes any worse than the BMR UCA? I have noticed with the BMR UCA there is a slightly more gear whine through out all gears then when compared with the whiteline UCA which was practically identical to the stock rubber one in terms of NVH. Though I'm sure after my rear end is fixed from the gear whine that plagues the 13 and I hushmat my car all noise will be 100% gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 OK, so after looking at TrakRat's picture and the Griggs T/A I have sitting in the garage I notice that the Griggs unit uses a voided bushing in the front at the pivot point ( same bushing Ford put in at the mount at the top of the differential ) and the CorteX unit uses a poly bushing . The question now brought in is " how much articulation is needed at the bushing mount position and will binding occur" ? The whole idea here is to establish a fixed Instant Center location ( which a Torque Arm does vs. the UCA of the 3 link in which the I/C moves ) and having the type of suspension where the load transfer is being taken up by the suspension linkage/geometry instead of the springs ( aka - less squat on acceleration / less dive during braking ) thus making it possible to use a lower spring rate and establish grip earlier in the corner along with a ride quality more suitable for the street. Because the torque arm has such a long length it does not allow anywhere as much axle wrap , very little pinion angle change , or driveshaft slip ( as it defines the travel arc of the axle assembly ). While the design of the Griggs unit is more than likely to bind in either the up/down travel of the axle but not during the articulation (twist) I'm sure that is why he used the Ford factory bushing. Where as the Cortex unit using the poly bushing will do the same and produce more NVH. The last thing here is to comment on is " How much of an increase in the unsprung weight of either unit is there verses the UCA ? and When will Maximum Motorsports and Whiteline join in the S197 Torque Arm battle?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFan1 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 With the Griggs install on my SGT, a little fab work was required on the exhaust X-pipe to make clearance around the torque arm mount I have the Griggs TT kit, without watts link and sway bar delete, seems to suit me very well and a real weight saver. ------------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Wow - NICE WORKMANSHIP - Very Clean Job Kerry - BRAVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordFan1 Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Wow - NICE WORKMANSHIP - Very Clean Job Kerry - BRAVO I can't take credit, the Griggs install and exhaust modification was performed by Brad Custom Auto in Seattle. The car will be returning to them soon, for a front suspension make over along with the roll bar install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2010KonaBlueGT Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Nice set up ! Couldn't help noticing that the 2010 has an "H" pipe and not a stamped "X" pipe like the 2007-2009 GT500s. Albino500, From the factory, the 2010 GT500's have a X-pipe on them just like the earlier Gen GT500's have. The '08 & '09 GT500KR's had a H pipe installed by Shelby and there are a few owner installed H-pipes on some GT500's here on TS (including at least one 2010+ MY car I remember) but as far as I know, GT500's use and continue to use a X-pipe vs. a H-pipe, however I am kind of thinking they (FoMoCo) MIGHT have started using a H-pipe in '11 or '12...That kind of 'rings a bell' way back in the south 40 acres of my gray cells for some reason. Just as a aside, I have observed that every dyno sheet I've ever seen or heard of with a H-pipe retrofit shows more HP with a X-pipe vs. a H-pipe. But as a trade-off, "the H-pipe has a much better sound", according to those that have put one on their GT500. Something about or akin to "a more 'throaty' sound, more like a V-8 should sound like". So apparently, the trade-off is a *little* bit of HP for a better sounding car. And obviously, "better sounding" is subjective. But to get back on point, the 2010's come from the factory with a X-pipe. If you see that he had/has a H-pipe on his car, he put it on there (or someone else did it for him, or perhaps a previous owner). Just keepin' the facts straight, Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Good to know Officer Friday ( just the facts madam ) B) All I know is 1) There is going to be some adjusting to the exhaust when putting in a torque arm ( which should be expected by anyone doing this ) 2) The welding on Kerry's SGT is AWESOME and you have to admit that the place did a quality job masking off the area at the front cross member where they welded the brackets to the floor pan / frame rails ( CLEAN and not OVERDONE ) then painted to keep from rusting 3) Thanks for keeping me up on the 2010's Phill . I'm wondering if he has a Mustang GT and not a GT500 - didn't the 2010 GT have an "H" pipe ? Phill - oh - Phill do you think maybe we are looking at pictures of a Mustang GT underside and not a GT500 ? Nope,TrakRat's car is a 2011 GT500 . We will have to check/compare our grey cells sometime . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Yup exhaust is factory stock with H. And yeah Albino, the I selected the option for both front bushings to switch to urethane. Someday I may swap to Delrin but these are doing the trick for now. And Kerry, it's funny my wife's Terminator is at The Fox Shoppe in your neighborhood right now and your SGT is coming up to Brad's in my neighborhood, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted January 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks for the clarification TrakRat - I didn't think my eyes and/or mind was going quite yet . So one can summarize that 2007-2010 GT500's came with stamped "X" pipes and 2011+ came with "H" pipes stock and torque arms ( while needing some welding and/or at least some exhaust work ) make a vast improvement in the handling over the UCA . Also , if you live in Washington state , you owe it to yourself to check out The Fox Shoppe and meet Brad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19cobra93 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I would love more info on that Cortex torque arm as it's not listed on their site for the S197. Is it available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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