Mr. Haney Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 The work is progressing with my car and I thought you guys would enjoy some photos of it. The new K member uses poly motor mounts, but doesn't lower the engine from the stock location. The picture of the rear components is missing a relocation bracket for the panhard bar that will lower the roll center of the rear axle substantially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ponies Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I have a Roush Stage 3 Black Jack and have added the Kenny Brown Subframe and Jacking Rails. The Roush guys really liked the KB stuff last time I had in their Michigan shop. I need to figure out what rear components might help me on the track. I have about 15 track days with the car and love it. I have to ask about yours. Do you keep it in a bubble? OMG it is so clean! Thanks for the pics... Keep those updates coming. Where are you having the work done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have a Roush Stage 3 Black Jack and have added the Kenny Brown Subframe and Jacking Rails. The Roush guys really liked the KB stuff last time I had in their Michigan shop. I need to figure out what rear components might help me on the track. I have about 15 track days with the car and love it. I have to ask about yours. Do you keep it in a bubble? OMG it is so clean! Thanks for the pics... Keep those updates coming. Where are you having the work done? No bubble, in fact I drove through numerous thunder storms when I brought it home from TX when I purchased it. The car is a 2013 with roughly 2600 miles on it that is the only reason it looks this nice underneath of it. After doing a considerable amount of research I felt that the Kenny Brown suspension was a better than an average upgrade for the money after comparing it to BMR, Steeda and few of the others. Is it as good as Griggs or Cortex set ups with coil overs? I don't know. I wasn't after a full track set up, but I wanted the best street set up and I think this will do very well. KB suspensions have been doing very well in both the American Iron and Pirelli World Challenge Series in the Mustangs, but these car also utilize coil overs with the KB parts. I also liked the fact they engineered some geometry changes into the suspension pieces for anti-dive in the front, along with anti-squat and anti-lift in the rear. The car has the Bilstien Electronic Dampers and I wanted to retain them for street use, because I doubt I'll ever track the car in the future. Unfortunately I have a back injury that gets very aggravated/painful doing anything during the heat of anything competitive in nature and the adrenalin rush associated with it. Performance Autosport in Richmond VA is doing the work. Here is a link to their website, you can also look them up on Facebook and follow the build as they are posting daily photos of the transformation http://www.performanceautosport.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have been watching on FB looking good I must say. You doing different springs at all or just leaving that stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I have been watching on FB looking good I must say. You doing different springs at all or just leaving that stock? Thank You Ford Racing part number M-5300-L which should drop it 1.25" from stock and are approved to work with the electronic dampers. I was hoping they would post a little more than they are. I noticed in the photos that they already have changed the springs and have the bump steer tie rod ends installed. In the picture of the silver GT500 I noticed my car in the back ground with the wheels and tires installed sitting on blocks. I was wondering if they already have the rear suspension done but aren't posting them yet. I don't have the time to go by the shop to see how they're making out, but I'm hoping everything is ready for me to pick it up Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 With all these heim joints, I would be interested in knowing what increase in NVH you'll get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 What sway bar is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 From what I'm gathering the car is done. I won't have time to pick the car up until Saturday morning. I;ll let everybody know what I think of it after I drive it. I'm expecting an increase in NVH, but from what I'm being told it isn't supposed to be bad and the car should be very street worth. The front bar is a 36mm that is adjustable and is an option from KB. Does he buy it from another vendor and supply it as an option to his kit? I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 I've seen some more pictures of my car since it was finished. Too bad I don't have the time to go pick it up....ARGH!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 18, 2012 Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 How come in the 2nd to last picture the space between the wheel and the fender is 2x as large on the right side then on the left? And no stripes? I like your color choice. If I could do my order over again I would have gone candy red with black stripes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2012 How come in the 2nd to last picture the space between the wheel and the fender is 2x as large on the right side then on the left? And no stripes? I like your color choice. If I could do my order over again I would have gone candy red with black stripes. I would assume the steering wheel is turned slightly to the right, so the wheel/tire isn't centered in the fender opening. If you look at the tire closely you can see that it is turned slightly. Yes..............The Tape Stripe Delete and Over the Top Stripe Delete is my friend. My wife never liked the stripes on the muscle cars from the late the sixties and still doesn't like them on cars today, so to keep the peace in the house, the car doesn't have stripes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Bautiful, can't wait to hear what you think once you drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Bautiful, can't wait to hear what you think once you drive it. +1 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ponies Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 +1 !!! +2 you know its good when you are smiling as you look at the pics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thanks guys, I'll give you my thoughts on it after I pick it up tomorrow. I have to go to a truck show for a customer after I pick it up, so I'll have 320 mile test ride by the time I get home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrakRat Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 How come in the 2nd to last picture the space between the wheel and the fender is 2x as large on the right side then on the left? And no stripes? I like your color choice. If I could do my order over again I would have gone candy red with black stripes. If I'm not mistaken, I thought the KB K-member moves the front wheels forward about an inch for better caster and weight distribution. I know some Griggs and MM kits do that varying degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Ding ding ding,.........we have a winner The car handles very well. As far a NVH the car has gained some, but not enough in my opinion to be bothersome. The rear is very stable compared to the stock set up. You can launch the car hard without fear of the tail end trying to steer the car now. It no longer squats with the panhard bar turning the car as the axle moves side to side with the suspension movement.The car is much safer to drive at the limit or past the limit of rear tire traction. The KB set up lowers the rear roll center significantly with the panhard bar being parallel with the axle by relocating the mounting points on both the body and axle housing. The spherical bearings don't make as much noise I anticipated. The steering wheel turn in is actually much lighter than stock and the car reacts quickly to steering wheel inputs. Even with the electronic steering set on the Sport mode the effort to turn the steering wheel is lower than it was stock in the Comfort mode. The ride is not abuse on standard roads, but was a little harsh on the rough city streets of Richmond. On the Interstate the difference in ride harshness wasn't much of a difference from stock in my opinion. I used the FRPP spring part # M-5300-L The stock air dam will need to be removed, as it is scraping on driveway entrances if they're steep and I can't hit them at an angle to keep this from happening. Yes the front tire is moved ahead slightly for more caster and high speed stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt13 Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Ding ding ding,.........we have a winner The car handles very well. As far a NVH the car has gained some, but not enough in my opinion to be bothersome. The rear is very stable compared to the stock set up. You can launch the car hard without fear of the tail end trying to steer the car now. It no longer squats with the panhard bar turning the car as the axle moves side to side with the suspension movement.The car is much safer to drive at the limit or past the limit of rear tire traction. The KB set up lowers the rear roll center significantly with the panhard bar being parallel with the axle by relocating the mounting points on both the body and axle housing. The spherical bearings don't make as much noise I anticipated. The steering wheel turn in is actually much lighter than stock and the car reacts quickly to steering wheel inputs. Even with the electronic steering set on the Sport mode the effort to turn the steering wheel is lower than it was stock in the Comfort mode. The ride is not abuse on standard roads, but was a little harsh on the rough city streets of Richmond. On the Interstate the difference in ride harshness wasn't much of a difference from stock in my opinion. I used the FRPP spring part # M-5300-L The stock air dam will need to be removed, as it is scraping on driveway entrances if they're steep and I can't hit them at an angle to keep this from happening. Yes the front tire is moved ahead slightly for more caster and high speed stability. I thought so with that last part. How come they made the steering so light? On comfort I feel if I blow on the steering wheel it will turn. Now yours is lighter than that? I would think that feels weird. Though now I want to see how your car compares to a stock one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJN Posted October 21, 2012 Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 Thats awesome. Been keeping a eye on here just waiting for your post :happy feet: and now hearing how much you like it, It makes me want to save even harder now for the complete package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tob Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 The spherical bearings don't make as much noise I anticipated. Huge difference between a three piece Teflon lined rod end and a steel on steel two piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 If I'm not mistaken, I thought the KB K-member moves the front wheels forward about an inch for better caster and weight distribution. I know some Griggs and MM kits do that varying degrees. I believe you are thinking of "fox body" cars not S197. Mr Haney - Don't like the gap between the washer on the back of the front lower arm to the front arm rear bushing/strap but it does have an interesting anti-dive angle in the picture . would like to see a pic of the front lower arm with the car sitting on a drive on rack. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husky44 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Very informative thread, Mr. Haney! Thank you! I'm curious: do you think the rear suspension mods alone would give the same results as far as getting the rear end to hook? I've got all winter to figure out how/what I want to do to get my car hooking better. Trying to decide if there's a set of suspension mods that will do it, if big rubber on the back will do it, or if I'm going to need both. Would appreciate your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy49 Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Mr Haney - Don't like the gap between the washer on the back of the front lower arm to the front arm rear bushing/strap but it does have an interesting anti-dive angle in the picture . would like to see a pic of the front lower arm with the car sitting on a drive on rack. JMO Is this the gap you were referring too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Patten Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Is this the gap you were referring too? YEP _ That be da one Snoop. I saw the bracket has an offset to one end and wondered if they should have flipped the rear bushing bracket around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I thought so with that last part. How come they made the steering so light? On comfort I feel if I blow on the steering wheel it will turn. Now yours is lighter than that? I would think that feels weird. Though now I want to see how your car compares to a stock one. There is a difference between light and fast..........you're describing fast. The car actually feels as if it is much lighter in weight and how it reacts to steering inputs. Also with the front wheel locations moving forward slightly I would also assume the weight bias front to rear has changed to the rear by a few percentage points. As far as increases in NVH, the rear axle and all the spherical bearing introduces a very slight hum as you load and unload the rear. This is the gear whine of the ring and pinion mesh and is very low in my opinion. Ford is doing a very good job setting the gear mesh, bearing pre-load and backlash in these rears from the little noise I'm hearing. I'm actually very happy with this and had anticipated that would be much louder than it is. The front K member did introduce some noise and vibration, mainly while the engine is cranking on the starter. After it fires the engine noise introduced into the car is actually exhaust noise from the exhaust system. The car has gained the rumble of a V-8 engine inside the car I can always live with this in a performance car. I actually want a set of headers and camshafts to bring the old V-8 sounds of the true muscle cars to this modern animal and hearing these things in the cockpit don't bother me in the least bit. The noise volume is actually fairly low at this point in time and won't interrupt a conversation between driver and passenger...........at least until you open the throttle all the way The front poly bushing are the only thing I'm not happy with at this point in time as they do creak during low speed. They are greased, but I may try a different type of grease to see if they will quiet down. If they don't quiet down KB has delrin bushing that will go in. I actually wanted these in the first place and was talked out of them. Everybody was afraid that they would be to harsh for street use. I have used the delrin bushing in past cars on the street and I don't feel they are that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 If I'm not mistaken, I thought the KB K-member moves the front wheels forward about an inch for better caster and weight distribution. I know some Griggs and MM kits do that varying degrees. You sir are 100% correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thats awesome. Been keeping a eye on here just waiting for your post :happy feet: and now hearing how much you like it, It makes me want to save even harder now for the complete package. I'm very happy with the changes in the ride and handling department. The kit is a very good design with the geometry changes that are made that really make the car feel lighter. I actually don't have a rear sway bar on at this time and the car is very neutral feeling with much more grip than it had stock. I haven't pushed it to the limits yet, but the limit is also farther than it was. I need to get fimilar with the car again before I get that aggressive with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Huge difference between a three piece Teflon lined rod end and a steel on steel two piece. HUGE is the correct statement in this. Honestly he rear is damn quiet for how it is now attached to the car. I hear a mild clunk when hitting a major pothole, otherwise it is quiet for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrickshelby Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 YEP _ That be da one Snoop. I saw the bracket has an offset to one end and wondered if they should have flipped the rear bushing bracket around. So what about that gap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Haney Posted October 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 Very informative thread, Mr. Haney! Thank you! I'm curious: do you think the rear suspension mods alone would give the same results as far as getting the rear end to hook? I've got all winter to figure out how/what I want to do to get my car hooking better. Trying to decide if there's a set of suspension mods that will do it, if big rubber on the back will do it, or if I'm going to need both. Would appreciate your thoughts. As you induce more traction with wider tires, you also introduce the possibility to create more wheel hop as the tires are hooking up. With the rear axle kit you get rid of the car squatting and you change the instant center to promote better traction. The kit also changes the geometry to stop the rear end from rising as you stand on the brakes to keep a better front to rear axle balance, which allows the rear tires/brakes to have more grip at the limit of braking. The car didn't gain anymore traction to hook the car up with the pavement. What it gained was predictability in how it reacts. Instead of the car squatting and the panhard bar shifting the axle to one side to the other as the suspension compresses and this causing the rear axle to steer the car............the car goes absolutely straight now. The limiting factor on the traction is the stock tires can't handle the power being put to them, whether the suspension is stock or modified. Get a better set of tires with this rear suspension kit and the car will gain a significant amount of traction. The other thing is as a driver with this suspension modified I don't feel the need to lift off the throttle now when at the limits of the tires traction, because I feel the car will stay headed in the direction I pointed it at, instead of the rear axle steering the car in an unpredictable direction as the car squatted on the suspension. You can get stupid and feel safer about it.........this allows the stupid factor to continue, along with the grin factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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